Question about noble kanohi.

[Great Being Velika]

This question may sound really stupid, but I think I remember hearing that not everything in MNOLG is canon. That brought up a question about Kanohi. I was wondering, can the Toa use Noble Kanohi? In some scenes in MNOLG, a Toa uses a Noble Kanohi (when Onua uses a matatu to get Lewa's Miru back). I've never heard about a toa using a noble kanohi in any other circumstances. Can someone please confirm whether or not Toa can use Noble Kanohi?

[JAG18]

Taken from BS01,

 

"Toa and other beings wear Great masks, which offer a stronger mask power, and are made from level 8 Kanoka disks, though they may still use a Noble Mask with ease."

 

This, does not, however, answer where the Toa Mata got their Noble Masks. That I'm not sure of.

Edited February 25, 2014 by JAG18

[Great Being Velika]

Taken from BS01,

 

Toa and other beings wear Great masks, which offer a stronger mask power, and are made from level 8 Kanoka disks, though they may still use a Noble Mask with ease.

 

This, does not, however, answer where the Toa Mata got their Noble Masks. That I'm not sure of.

That partially answers my question. I remember reading that they gave the Noble Masks they had to the Turaga. Thanks for helping, though.

[JAG18]

I think I found your answer, after checking all the Turaga's BS01 pages, I discovered that they were all given their Noble Kanohi by the Toa Mata after they transformed into Nuva and had no use for them.

So, I guess the Toa collected them like they collected their Great Masks and could use them normally; when they turned into Nuva, they could no longer use them and so gave them to the Turaga.

However, this raises the question "Why didn't the Toa Nuva have any use for them?" I did see something about how only Toa Nuva can use Nuva Masks, so maybe they can only use Noble Nuva Masks?

 

Hope this helps.

Edited February 25, 2014 by JAG18

[Great Being Velika]

 

 

I did see something about how only Toa Nuva can use Nuva Masks, so maybe they can only use Noble Nuva Masks?

I didn't think noble nuva masks existed.

[JAG18]

Until, any of the Toa Nuva decide to retire, they currently don't exist, so I suppose using Noble Nuva Masks is completely theoretical.

[fishers64]

Greg confirmed multiple times that the Toa Nuva could use regular Great Masks. So it would make sense that they would be able to use regular Noble masks as well. I suspect that the Toa Nuva (being all proud, arrogant, and stuff) didn't feel that using Noble masks would help them anymore, and it would be better if the Turaga had them.

[Xeo]

The Toa Mata collected the Noble Kanohi when they were collecting the Great Kanohi. When they became Nuva they gave their Noble masks to the Turaga. Not because they couldn't use them but because they couldn't use them from their Suva like they had been able to before.

[bonesiii]

This question actually has a bit of history. A looong time ago when I was new here, Greg actually denied the canonicity of any of the instances of the Toa using Noble Kanohi, not that they couldn't, but he said they would not want to, as Great Masks are stronger. That never sat well with me -- say they find themselves in a situation where the powers they want aren't available as Great masks, like in MNOG where Onua wanted telekinesis, and in the Bohrok update with Pohatu when he wanted mind control. Greg apparently failed to factor that originally.

 

Later he changed this to simply say that the Turaga on Mata Nui used the same Suva for the Noble masks the Toa collected for them as the Toa's Great masks, so as long as they both didn't try to use the same mask at the same time, the Toa could use the Noble masks.

 

This has still left confusing how Pohatu could call on a Noble Komau, considering that is Onewa's normal mask and it was still on his face at the time. That instance may still be non-canon, but we could "rescue" it by simply supposing that the Toa Metru had thought of this and brought an extra, so there were two Noble Komau for Po-Koro. Or, perhaps the different Suva can tie in together and Pohatu could have used a "loaner" from one of the other Turaga's Suva. (The gold color of it probably is non-canon; it would have turned brown due to being on the face of Pohatu, but the animators probably thought the Golden Kanohi had the powers of the Nobles in them, which they do not.)

 

Onua's use of the Matatu is now canon and needs no other explanation. Same with Kopaka's use of the Huna and Mahiki. I forget if there were others.

 

So, I guess the Toa collected them like they collected their Great Masks and could use them normally; when they turned into Nuva, they could no longer use them and so gave them to the Turaga.

No, they collected them for the Turaga originally, but could share the same Suva used to store them. (And I'm pretty sure they could still use them, as fishers said.)

 

Note that this means nearly all visual depictions of Suva are non-canon as they lack the space to store this many masks; they would actually be larger with twelve slots, unless they could store masks "inside" somewhere or on a shelf nearby... which may be implied by Tahu's ability to call upon the Vahi.

 

Where BS01 gets the wording that you are referring to, I don't know -- it's possible Greg retconned this yet again later and I missed it, but the above is my current understanding. Or that wording may simply mean that they no longer shared Suva in Metru Nui (in the 2006-2010 plot).

[Katuko]

This has still left confusing how Pohatu could call on a Noble Komau, considering that is Onewa's normal mask and it was still on his face at the time. That instance may still be non-canon, but we could "rescue" it by simply supposing that the Toa Metru had thought of this and brought an extra, so there were two Noble Komau for Po-Koro. Or, perhaps the different Suva can tie in together and Pohatu could have used a "loaner" from one of the other Turaga's Suva. (The gold color of it probably is non-canon; it would have turned brown due to being on the face of Pohatu, but the animators probably thought the Golden Kanohi had the powers of the Nobles in them, which they do not.)

It does seem mostly like a slip of the mind for the writers of that scene. It seemed to be done mostly to include that power at all, since Pohatu could easily have made his own stone ramp via Elemental Power in the same time it took for Hewkii to line up his Kolhii ball. The Flash animations seemed to focus mostly on Kanohi usage, since the only time we actually see elemental powers in use is in with Tahu's fire sword and in the fight against Makuta. Gali uses no powers in her scene, while Lewa, Onua, Kopaka and Pohatu all rely on Kanohi. In return, Tahu's scene is meant as an introduction, and the resolution of the issues in Ta-Koro does not rely on him at all.

 

In the Bohrok animations we see the trend continue, with no Toa using elemental powers as far as I can remember.

 

Regarding the Komau: Seems like the source for yet another funny-in-hindsight moment: Onewa suddenly trips and falls because his mask teleports off his face. Alternately, it's swapped with Pohatu's mask without him noticing.

 

 

 

So, I guess the Toa collected them like they collected their Great Masks and could use them normally; when they turned into Nuva, they could no longer use them and so gave them to the Turaga.

No, they collected them for the Turaga originally, but could share the same Suva used to store them. (And I'm pretty sure they could still use them, as fishers said.

 

Note that this means nearly all visual depictions of Suva are non-canon as they lack the space to store this many masks; they would actually be larger with twelve slots, unless they could store masks "inside" somewhere or on a shelf nearby... which may be implied by Tahu's ability to call upon the Vahi.

 

Have we ever confirmed exactly how a Suva's slots even work? The design appears to hold six masks in specialized compartments in all appearances I have seen, so earlier I thought there was a separate Suva for Turaga. But then we know that the Toa can call upon masks that are even outside these sets - like the Vahi - so that would imply that they can store a larger number of Kanohi inside themselves.

 

Does this mean that a Toa could just order a dump truck of masks from Ta-Metru and have every power available at a moment's notice? I dunno, and I doubt it. But is the Suva really just a big waist-high dome that can store as many masks as you can cram in? I somehow doubt that too, but it starts to seem likely.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Katuko

[bonesiii]

In the Bohrok animations we see the trend continue, with no Toa using elemental powers as far as I can remember.

There was Tahu briefly showing fire powers when the Kal stole them (to emphasize that they disappear a moment later). I don't recall any others.

 

Agreed that there really is no reason Pohatu should have needed Hewkii to do that -- unless of course his elemental energies were low, which is possible given that he was likely already fighting Bohrok before arriving at Po-Koro. But he also could have picked Hafu up, ran at the wall, and switch to Levitation, allowing his momentum to carry them over the wall. (The end of that scene would even remain canon as it does have him switch to Levitation to dampen the landing.) It's no big loss if we assume the method depicted is non-canon in that case.

 

 

Regarding Suva, MNOG also depicted them as hollow with apparently a cylindrical room inside with possibly many slots, and when Lewa got his Golden Kanohi (in MNOG's version, later retconned in favor of Hapka's book version of getting the Golden Kanohi), he emerged like riding an elevator from this room, with the top of the Suva glowing like green energy, apparently the roof actually converted to energy to allow him to pass through, or something. LoMN also clearly depicted a cylindrical base to the Suva because the Great Temple's version actually lifted up like a piston when it transformed Vakama, etc. into Toa. However, this is as far as those hints go and it could be that it's NOT hollow, that the LoMN thing is unique to that Suva, is just a pedestal the actual Suva is atop, etc.

 

I lean toward the Suva being capable of teleporting any mask that is 'owned' by the Toa and allies with similar rules to the Nuva symbols. After all, it's a power of teleportation with vast range, so there's no potency problem, the only question is if the power has advanced enough programming to handle it.

 

If so, then the masks (sometimes) shown stored on the six slots would just be for convenience. So, the Vahi, in this interpretation, was probably hidden somewhere nearby, by Tahu, so his Suva "knew" where it was (or he could remotely, mentally command it where to look when the time came).

 

But I only lean toward this as it somehow seems a bit off. Not really sure why.

[JAG18]

I see you guys have, gone off on a new tangent, which I don't have much to contribute. However, something that bothers me,

 

Where BS01 gets the wording that you are referring to, I don't know -- it's possible Greg retconned this yet again later and I missed it, but the above is my current understanding. Or that wording may simply mean that they no longer shared Suva in Metru Nui (in the 2006-2010 plot).

What wording are you referring to? I'm kind of at loss to decipher.

[bonesiii]

I see you guys have, gone off on a new tangent, which I don't have much to contribute. However, something that bothers me,

 

Where BS01 gets the wording that you are referring to, I don't know -- it's possible Greg retconned this yet again later and I missed it, but the above is my current understanding. Or that wording may simply mean that they no longer shared Suva in Metru Nui (in the 2006-2010 plot).

What wording are you referring to? I'm kind of at loss to decipher.

I was referring to the part in your post that I quoted saying that the Nuva did not give the Noble masks to the Turaga until they became Nuva, which contradicts the understanding from Greg's statements that I was aware of (which I began my post with), that they collected them for the Turaga right off the bat (so they gave them to the Turaga right away in 2001, if that is still correct). Of course, I don't actually have the quote, I'm just running off of memory.

[JAG18]

 

I see you guys have, gone off on a new tangent, which I don't have much to contribute. However, something that bothers me,

 

Where BS01 gets the wording that you are referring to, I don't know -- it's possible Greg retconned this yet again later and I missed it, but the above is my current understanding. Or that wording may simply mean that they no longer shared Suva in Metru Nui (in the 2006-2010 plot).

What wording are you referring to? I'm kind of at loss to decipher.

I was referring to the part in your post that I quoted saying that the Nuva did not give the Noble masks to the Turaga until they became Nuva, which contradicts the understanding from Greg's statements that I was aware of (which I began my post with), that they collected them for the Turaga right off the bat (so they gave them to the Turaga right away in 2001, if that is still correct). Of course, I don't actually have the quote, I'm just running off of memory.

 

Interestingly, the Turaga pages seem to contradict each other on this. But, I guess y'all's consensus about what's true is correct.