Evolution of the Makuta Species

[SarracenianKaijin]

If they didn't evolve as we understand evolution, what's the point of having male and female Makuta? Maybe they're all genderless and decided to give themselves a gender to tell each other apart, as there's no evolutionary reason to have a gender here.

 

Gender is an artificial construct.

The Makuta knows this.

 

After all, we know that Makuta are essentially born from the same base energy (or, given their association with Nothing and anti-life, "anti-energy"). Inevitably, when you part of the unifying force of void and entropy, it would stand to reason that some Makuta would have the false sense of grandeur and paradoxical self-hatred to proclaim themself as "the individual", the one amidst many.

 

Of course, this becomes fallacious when inevitably they all serve the same purpose anyway, and in many ways all have the same mind, this only further drives them to doing stunning and horrible feats of power, literally sacrificing all else to chase that doomed desire, and that drives them further into pure madness.

 

Which, as stated, only serves to accelerate the grand purpose of that Makuta-nature.

 

Gender in Makuta are thus, only a side-product of this failing endeavor of finding the Self.

Edited April 23, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin

[fishers64]

If they didn't evolve as we understand evolution, what's the point of having male and female Makuta? Maybe they're all genderless and decided to give themselves a gender to tell each other apart, as there's no evolutionary reason to have a gender here.

Personality differences. Like the Matoran.

[ALVIS]

One might say that gender in the Matoran Universe is the purest form of gender -- it's all about how they identify, not determined or suggested by any physical traits. (Of course, the canon fact that somehow certain tribes of Matoran are programmed to be entirely female and others entirely male is kind of odd, but whatever.)

[Zox Tomana]

If they didn't evolve as we understand evolution, what's the point of having male and female Makuta? Maybe they're all genderless and decided to give themselves a gender to tell each other apart, as there's no evolutionary reason to have a gender here.

 

And I'd very much call Makuta gods or at the very least god-like beings (I like the term 'deity'), in the sense of the powers that they process and their powers of creation and destruction.

 

There's also what Zippy just said. Evolution sounds so much nicer than Mutation or Transformation or Metamorphosis.

In story the Makuta are simply a species higher on the rungs of authority than most, and there isn't really a point to MU gender at all besides that the GB's wanted it that way (in story), were basing these species on those existing on Spherus Magna to a degree (in story, and yes I know there are no Makuta analogs on SM), and that a gender-less society is not relatable to LEGO's audience (outside story).

 

Makuta don't have powers of creation and destruction. Not in the same sense a deity would. Destruction more in the same terms of a highly armed military force with nukes, and creation in terms of taking existing things and applying a process that is not miraculous in any way within the story universe to form Rahi and Rahkshi.

 

I don't know what Sar is talking about, but it sounds like discussion for another topic, as is any idea of Makuta or even Mata Nui deification. This is about the evolution (metamorphosis) of the species, not this odd idea of deity being ascribed to a very mortal and scientifically minded species.

[SarracenianKaijin]

I don't know what Sar is talking about,

 

The person asked about Makuta's gender issues, and I answered it.

 

If you have problems, talk to him/her and the other people before me who also talked about gender and not your on-topic "evolution".

Edited April 23, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin

[Zox Tomana]

 

I don't know what Sar is talking about,

The person asked about Makuta's gender issues, and I answered it.

 

If you have problems, talk to him/her and the other people before me who also talked about gender and not your on-topic "evolution".

 

I could plainly read that it was some kind of answer to that. My statement was that I have no clue what you were talking about, because gender being some kind of "by-product of failing to find the self" is completely untrue from the standpoint of canon where we are plainly told that the GB's designed a gendered universe which included a pool of antidermis (so named by the Piraka) from which Mata Nui created a group of beings known as the Makuta (plural), which had 85 male members and 15 female members, with each Makuta (singular) having their own name, identity, and personality. And we see various Makuta with very different personalities and priorities. Where you step off with this almost mystical view of the Makuta and Mata Nui (other posts) is very confusing and does not really contribute to the discussions at hand. Instead, it is an entirely separate discussion to be had and one that people in multiple places have asked you to make a NEW topic in which to discuss it. If you want to have that discussion with us, please do make that other topic. Otherwise, please don't help us get off topic. We do that easily enough as is.

[SarracenianKaijin]

Where you step off with this almost mystical view of the Makuta and Mata Nui (other posts) is very confusing and does not really contribute to the discussions at hand.

 

It does. It answers Phovos' question.

 

Besides the interpretation is a lot more interesting to read.

 

 

Then make a new topic for us to read it in, or better yet, make a fanfic out of it! Zox is absolutely right in what he said in the preceding post. Please don't post off-topic again. -bones

 

What, off-topic like every other person who also responded to the "gender question"?

Edited April 25, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin
Then make a new topic for us to read it in, or better yet, make a fanfic out of it! Zox is absolutely right in what he said in the preceding post. Please don't post off-topic again. -bones

[Phovos]

I just asked a question, no need to argue, darlings.

 

Then again, I just always sort of thought gender was pointless in the Bionicle universe anyway. Oh well.

 

Back to those silly Makuta, I suppose the correct word for it is mutation? Or maybe even growth, if it's a semi-natural part of a Makuta's life cycle?

Edited April 25, 2014 by Phovos

[Zox Tomana]

Rather than growth, try metamorphosis. Think caterpillars metamorphosing into butterflies. Same species, different form.

[~kh]

I had my own little fan theories about MU biology, but here's what I would assume.

 

Our own body has many organic parts that regulate our systems. Specifically, things like red blood cells and white blood cells and all that other good stuff.

 

Now, we know that as a general rule, Matoran are 80% mechanical and 20% organic, but that relation has some serious implications. For instance, much of our body is organic cell makeup, but Matoran obviously don't have cells, else they'd be a lot more than just 20% organic. So what has to regulate the Matoran system / fight off infections / deliver oxygen/energy to tissues/systems?

 

Nanobots, of course.

 

Now, one thing that's never made sense to me is how Makuta "mix viruses together to make Rahi". I can't exactly envision that. BS01 states that viruses are energy based organisms that Makuta add to Liquid Protodermis, but even then that's not exactly clear on how those things are made. But it's important, because it also states that viruses are really similar to Antidermis, which is what the Makuta evolved into.

 

Here's my theory.

 

Nanobots are kind of the "cells" of our biomechanical universe. They have the information encoded on them to generate all kinds of programs. Viruses, the ones that the Makuta mixed together, are energy based collections of nanobots that are programmed to react in different ways with each other.

 

Protodermis is a memory metal, able to conduct into a shape by electrical currents by the nanobots. Using a combination of motor specific movement and geolocation, the nanobots are able to arrange themselves into the proper order to solidify Liquid Protodermis into Solid Protodermis, but in 1. a specific shape 2. with the ability to transport the nanobots within new organism itself. A group of them are able to link together and fuse in a way as to form some sort of semi-organic tissue (aka organic protodermis) that forms the organs, which then supplies and is regulated by the rest of the body system.

 

So the nanobots order themselves into organic protodermis, but the base code that runs them, the "OS" if you will, is always continuously evolving because it's made to learn. The organism itself is a living, learning product. And all of the operating code is up in the brain, which one of the fused organic protodermis organs, but somewhere along the line, after observing so many viruses being combined the program comes to this idea: why can't they just stay a virus forever? Why can't it just spread the "consciousness" of the OS by making everything run in parallel?

 

See, the GBs made them just to keep everything in the brain because they were organic and that's how they worked, and it made sense to develop from what they know. But the code, which has been learning since it gave everyone personalities, decides that it's not going to work like how organics work. Instead, they figure out that they can spread the consciousness across all of these nanobots and progress into a parallel processing architecture (dude, random tech buzzwords! Now you know it's getting serious!)

 

So the nanobots want to make every one of them work at the same time instead of focusing on other stuff at the same time, but they've got to have a way to instantly transfer data, because the way it works now they're just not able to do that efficiently enough. But back in virus form, they were able to use the makeup of whatever-the-virus-was-made-of to transfer data pretty instantly. So they need that form back, but they can't degrade solid protodermis because that requires heat and could damage the system. Instead, they start breaking down the organic protodermis and they recess all the organs and break them up into this kind of misty ooze deal. Now they've evolved past that nasty organic stage and, since they don't have to worry about oxygen transfer or tissue regulation, is much more efficient as a result!

 

Bonus: the nanobots, since they're the same networked conscious, naturally work to shut down the organic protodermis with any other system they get into. Now, it takes a good amount of time to do so, but one of the first things they have to do is shut down the reasoning/personality process in the brain while they "back it up" in order to transfer it to everywhere else. That's the reason why the Piraka were able to shoot Matoran with Antidermis to enslave them, because the nanobots basically shut the reasoning part of their brain down. (Makuta didn't get their brains shut down/turned into zombie slaves because their brains willingly started the process; nanobots "infecting" another organism have to find another way to "hack" into the brains).

 

Before you ask, no, I'm barely knowledgeable on computers as-is and I'm pretty sure that I've used some of the terms just horrifically wrong in my attempt to sound complicated. And I haven't looked into this topic/see other Matoran biology topics, so I'm pretty sure that someone's come up with this idea before and I'm not trying to steal it or whatever. But I think it has merit? Dunno. Feel free to tear it apart, it's just something I thought about while in class today.

[fishers64]

Antidermis are nanobots? Or are the viruses nanobots?Or both? I'm confused.

[V-N]

Technically, Makuta didn't evolve at all, based on the human definition, but rather metamorphosed. Evolution is change in a species that takes place over several generations

 

I'm actually wondering about this. Antidermis has the known ability to reproduce. What if, like virus's or even bacteria, the "cells" of Antidermis constantly reproduce themselves, even without some of them being incinerated first? That would give some ground for evolution, having the cells's code "mutate" over "generations."

 

But I am no expert on the subject, and the idea may not hold water. I don't think there is proof that Antidermis constantly replicates, nor that it could in solid organic form. Plus a lot of other holes I haven't gotten around to thinking through yet.