The Official OTC TBRPG Planning and Organization Topic

[Havelock Vetinari]

Well, turn myself into a Lich - I figure five villagers go to waste for that, oh well - and turn my collaborators into vampires - three villagers* a piece? - and I don't give a Shoggoth's nosehairs what's illegal in this 'verse.

 

*Originally said zombies. Guess it's getting hard to tell the difference, really.

 

More then five. Liches take up alot of blood. Why they tend to be rarer. If you don't have any ethical objections, since the vamp-zombies lack the string to the Outer Dark (they're basically animals slaved to your will) send them to feast on other villagers so they don't fall to the ground like a puppet without it's string when the startup energies run out and you have something there. The sentient Vampires are a different story and require much less blood due to the string. Makes it managable without becoming a serial killer.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Zehvor: If that were the case, any evolutionary split would only ever result in one species surviving. Instead, species often evolve to fill a different niche from that occupied by their ancestors, eliminating most competition between them.

 

Of course. But as it is, there would a strong difference between the species present due to the fact there is an additional factor in the environment that must be adapted to. Change even one abiotic factor and you have a much different scenario. There is an additional abiotic factor in this setting, which means the entire ecosystem has been altered. The differences will not be as strong as, say, the differences between biomes; however, it would be fairly noticeable. Especially after the species have evolved over the course of millions of years.

 

Would you contact something that can end a city? It does happen, but they aren't truly gods. Call them gods if you like. Some people in the world do. Some worship them.

Living longer. Deeper connection to magic. Liches tend to have a larger connection to the Outer Dark, making summoning things up easier. Due to this connection, they can also store excess energy that isn't needed to sustain their functions. They'll have to burn it off or go insane of course. This excess energy is very valuable however, it allows them to cast magic without blood. Which in this setting is quite powerful indeed. Don't expect to start out as one.

Vampires on the other hand, get a nice set of fangs out of the deal. Require far less blood, but don't get any deeper connection to the Outer Dark. Also need to drink blood on occasion because the energy from the string isn't enough to totally sustain them. Don't feed? Say good bye to higher brain functions.

Quite. Though magic, as noted with the Scorpion Men above, doesn't favor reproduction. The effect is just that, random. So exceptions are rare. Relatively speaking-the entire animal population isn't filled with uber-creatures, but they do exist. Some continents might have very very deadly wolves. Others might have rather large spiders. Ymper's note is also valid.

 

Which is the point I was making, of course.

 

So with the Liches, at least, do they end up as the skeletal creatures were so commonly see in fantasy? Or is that only what they look like after spending a few hundred years rotting away? This does beg another question - if a Lich can retain power inside themselves, could they not eventually utilize it to simply animate a corpse without any bloody expenditure? Or is that simply beyond their reach.

 

My statement is as above.

As for why you would use that magic on someone else... Turn others into vampires and then don't let them feed for a while. Humanoid attack dogs with fangs. Or maybe you want cheap labour - shazam! Zombies that aren't physically dead, their brain's just turned slightly necrotic because it's not the important part. The important part is that they're gone enough to listen to whatever you tell them. They will work all day in the sun without complaining. They will never run away, or try to get rights.

You want cheap labour, you zombify some villagers and set yourself up a plantation. This is a very monster-friendly 'verse, and most of them belong to one of the playable races listed above.

 

When I referred to turning others, I meant the vampires and liches. And the point still remains. Humanoid attack dogs are inefficient to the extreme, as their senses, speed, raw muscle mass per size, and ease at retrieval are lacking when compared to a dog.

The vamp zombies are applied with the same problem. I will take a magically, genetically altered hound over the time necessary to create a vamp-zombie any day for practicality reasons. Plus, it looks a lot better in the public eye.

 

Zombies are the only semi-efficient option, and solely for the reasons you state.

 

If someone opens a way to the Outer Dark-a gate for lack of a better word....

The local wild-life takes a turn for the strange. Comparing the Outer Dark to the rest of the world is like comparing rad levels in just-bombed Nagasaki to rad-levels in New York.

 

As in the local wild-life around the gate or the wildlife past the gate?

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Havelock Vetinari]

Of course. But as it is, there would a strong difference between the species present due to the fact there is an additional factor in the environment that must be adapted to. Change even one abiotic factor and you have a much different scenario. There is an additional abiotic factor in this setting, which means the entire ecosystem has been altered. The differences will not be as strong as, say, the differences between biomes; however, it would be fairly noticeable. Especially after the species have evolved over the course of millions of years.

 

Yes. Species are different on this world. Most in very very minor ways. Why? Because I'm not going to detail every creature in the world for you fellows. Assume Earth-like unless stated otherwise. Run any fanastic creature you want to encounter by me.

 

 

Which is the point I was making, of course.

So with the Liches, at least, do they end up as the skeletal creatures were so commonly see in fantasy? Or is that only what they look like after spending a few hundred years rotting away? This does beg another question - if a Lich can retain power inside themselves, could they not eventually utilize it to simply animate a corpse without any bloody expenditure? Or is that simply beyond their reach.

My statement is as above.

 

In theory, if they want to devote some excess energy into keeping themselves from rotting away (which would take quite a bit of energy) then they'll stay the same for as long as they exist. If they don't, you'll get a skeleton after the flesh has gone away.

 

If they store up enough energy, yes.

 

 

When I referred to turning others, I meant the vampires and liches. And the point still remains. Humanoid attack dogs are inefficient to the extreme, as their senses, speed, raw muscle mass per size, and ease at retrieval are lacking when compared to a dog.

The vamp zombies are applied with the same problem. I will take a magically, genetically altered hound over the time necessary to create a vamp-zombie any day for practicality reasons. Plus, it looks a lot better in the public eye.

Zombies are the only semi-efficient option, and solely for the reasons you state.

 

Because dogs rarely stay still long enough for you to bathe them in blood and because you don't really know much about their biology. In the future it might be possible, as they find out about things like cells and such as, but as it stands, genetically modifying an entire species using magic is a bit beyond people. The results tend to be.....freakish and unable to breed and also eat up blood like no one's buisness. More then liches. It's one thing to give a body it's basic functions back. Another to change it on a fundamental level. Or levels.

 

If you feel like killing an entire village or two for your hound, go for it. Vamp-zomb hounds would be easier. But you'll still need to feed them blood. And they can't open doors. And are even less intelligent then ones coming from the sentient races.

 

As in the local wild-life around the gate or the wildlife past the gate?

 

A few miles around it. Assuming nothing comes through. A big assumption.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

In theory, if they want to devote some excess energy into keeping themselves from rotting away (which would take quite a bit of energy) then they'll stay the same for as long as they exist. If they don't, you'll get a skeleton after the flesh has gone away.

If they store up enough energy, yes.

 

If you are vain enough to consider yourself so important that dozens of innocent lives must be lost to grant yourself immortality, then I can't imagine it being much of a stretch to imagine the person who is of lich status to be willing to kill off a few more just to retain their personal appearance, if they happen to be/consider themselves to be attractive.

 

Because dogs rarely stay still long enough for you to bath them in blood and because you don't really know much about their biology. In the future it might be possible, as they find out about things like cells and such as, but as it stands, genetically modifying an entire species using magic is a bit beyond people. The results tend to be.....freakish and unable to breed and also eat up blood like no one's buisness. More then liches. It's one thing to give a body it's basic functions back. Another to change it on a fundamental level. Or levels.

If you feel like killing an entire village or two for your hound, go for it. Vamp-zomb hounds would be easier. But you'll still need to feed them blood. And they can't open doors. And are even less intelligent then ones coming from the sentient races.

 

I meant living dogs, not undead ones...

 

Again, living, well trained war dogs. Remember at the start of Conan? Yeah, those suckers don't play nice. Dogs can get well past 200 pounds and be far faster than any human being of that size, living or unliving.

 

Playing a vampire/witch hunter with a well trained war hound? Far more interesting than playing as selfish, serial killer wizard.

 

A few miles around it. Assuming nothing comes through. A big assumption.

 

This brings up another question - could such a creature, possessing such magical abilities, also raise the dead at-will? A particularly powerful creature from the Outer Dark could very feasibly, based on your descriptions, generate enough power to outright kill a man and resurrect them on the spot, using themselves as the 'string'. Perhaps even leaving sentience? This could open the doors to some very interesting play options...

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Havelock Vetinari]

If you are vain enough to consider yourself so important that dozens of innocent lives must be lost to grant yourself immortality, then I can't imagine it being much of a stretch to imagine the person who is of lich status to be willing to kill off a few more just to retain their personal appearance, if they happen to be/consider themselves to be attractive.

 

Or, y'know, wealthy or dedicated enough to pay someone to/kill yourself some/much of the local animal population. Blood energy doesn't discriminate between species.

 

 

I meant living dogs, not undead ones...

Again, living, well trained war dogs. Remember at the start of Conan? Yeah, those suckers don't play nice. Dogs can get well past 200 pounds and be far faster than any human being of that size, living or unliving.

Playing a vampire/witch hunter with a well trained war hound? Far more interesting than playing as selfish, serial killer wizard.

 

Many breeds can yes. But vamp-zombs will be more intelligent then them and some people value that in a minion. Different things for different tasks. A zomb-vamp can still wield a sword for example. Just don't expect overly creative and intelligent fighting from them. Still, the fact they don't feel pain helps. Alot.

 

This brings up another question - could such a creature, possessing such magical abilities, also raise the dead at-will? A particularly powerful creature from the Outer Dark could very feasibly, based on your descriptions, generate enough power to outright kill a man and resurrect them on the spot, using themselves as the 'string'. Perhaps even leaving sentience? This could open the doors to some very interesting play options...

 

They can. Why do you think the cabal was so eager to summon one?

 

You saw what happened to them. And the city. And the people within it.

 

The Scorpion Men, understandably, are violently against the idea of gates and summoning in general.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Or, y'know, wealthy or dedicated enough to pay someone to/kill yourself some/much of the local animal population. Blood energy doesn't discriminate between species.

 

Then I misunderstood; the implication to me was the need for sentient blood. Otherwise, that would make murdering a village of decent people completely pointless when breeding cattle for the purpose would work just as well. And you can always use what's left over as a tasty snack in that case, without the cannibalism!

 

Many breeds can yes. But vamp-zombs will be more intelligent then them and some people value that in a minion. Different things for different tasks. A zomb-vamp can still wield a sword for example. Just don't expect overly creative and intelligent fighting from them. Still, the fact they don't feel pain helps. Alot.

 

If I want an intelligent minion then actual human beings work just as well, and generally have a more pleasant smell.

 

They can. Why do you think the cabal was so eager to summon one?

You saw what happened to them. And the city. And the people within it.

The Scorpion Men, understandably, are violently against the idea of gates and summoning in general.

 

So do these creatures actively seem to be trying to enter the world? Or do people sometimes just get stupid and something comes out to have a little fun. Or are they all their own beings? And along that line, are all gates created by some fool messing with magic or do they randomly spawn from places as well?

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

So, approximately four liters of blood per person. What volume of blood do you think would be necessary for the creation of a lich? Is it possible to remotely funnel magical energy into a lich you created? Do liches have a maximum carrying capacity of magic, beyond which they, perhaps, violently explode?

 

I'm planning on playing as a horrible, backstabbing monster, in case you couldn't tell.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Then I misunderstood; the implication to me was the need for sentient blood. Otherwise, that would make murdering a village of decent people completely pointless when breeding cattle for the purpose would work just as well. And you can always use what's left over as a tasty snack in that case, without the cannibalism!

 

Sentient blood is more powerful, but animal blood will work. Just be willing to build a small pyramid of animal corpses if you plan to attain Lichdom. Expensive, time-consuming and probably leaves an unhappy village without game somewhere. In general, once the body starts to rot, the blood is useless. Utterly useless. Same for frozen blood. Once the cells die, no more magic from that red substance.

 

If I want an intelligent minion then actual human beings work just as well, and generally have a more pleasant smell.

 

Eh. The lack of pain and total loyalty is appealing to some.

So do these creatures actively seem to be trying to enter the world? Or do people sometimes just get stupid and something comes out to have a little fun. Or are they all their own beings? And along that line, are all gates created by some fool messing with magic or do they randomly spawn from places as well?

 

Who can say? I'm not.

 

As for gates, they have to be made by an intelligent being. So they are thankfully rare. Summoning opens up a gate for all of a second, so it is nowhere near as dangerous.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Speaking of which... If you put enough effort into it, you could mix bone marrow in with the blood. Bone marrow, pulped muscle tissue... would that make my villager smoothie more magically efficient?

Edited June 9, 2013 by Ymper Trymon

[Havelock Vetinari]

 

So, approximately four liters of blood per person. What volume of blood do you think would be necessary for the creation of a lich? Is it possible to remotely funnel magical energy into a lich you created? Do liches have a maximum carrying capacity of magic, beyond which they, perhaps, violently explode?

I'm planning on playing as a horrible, backstabbing monster, in case you couldn't tell.

 

About....fifty people. Yeah. Alot. Vampires require maybe six or seven people. So they're alot more common.

 

Liches are pretty powerful in this setting, hence why becoming one isn't easy. Their storage capacity is, in theory, unlimited, but they have to burn off the excess energy at a certain point or go insane. Maybe enough magic to create a vampire without blood. A Lich with the power to create another Lich without blood would be hopelessly insane. Not the evil cackling kind, the "I need help to move my legs" kind.

 

Thats what a string does. Remotely funnels magic from the Outer Dark to the Lich. The kind of String that won't drive you insane within a few days will allow you to slowly gather excess energy and perform bloodless magic. Strings can be created for living mages, but the risk is rarely worth the reward for them-plus, y'know, casting spells while immersed in blood is hard. Very hard. Easy for something to go wrong.

 

Strings could, in theory, provide larger amounts of energy, but it'd take much more blood and you'd need to burn off excess energy at such a fast rate that you'll almost certainly be insane after the first five days. No one, as yet, has been moronic enough to try this on purpose.

 

Speaking of which... If you put enough effort into it, you could mix bone marrow in with the blood. Bone marrow, pulped muscle tissue... would that make my villager smoothie more magically efficient?

 

Somewhat. Might cut it down from fifty to thirty-five or forty.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

...That is actually good news for me. Now, if I manage to get the entire body pulverized and suspended in the villager smoothie, how does that cut things down?

 

Also, after the string drives a lich that can't possibly burn off his energy fast enough insane to the point of being a vegetable, what happens next? Is there a 'it gets worse'? Hounds of Tindalos pop out of his brain or something? While gates need to be opened by something intelligent, I imagine that enough energy concentrated in one vessel would create some instability in something.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Ymper Trymon

[Havelock Vetinari]

...That is actually good news for me. Now, if I manage to get the entire body pulverized and suspended in the villager smoothie, how does that cut things down?

 

Also, after the string drives a lich that can't possibly burn off his energy fast enough insane to the point of being a vegetable, what happens next? Is there a 'it gets worse'? Hounds of Tindalos pop out of his brain or something?

 

That was what I was assuming actually. You don't half-arse things.

 

Hm. Well, I did say gates require a sentient being to make. But strings are, in essence, gates so small that nothing can slip through them and are basically beneath notice...the string would keep getting wider and wider and eventually....

 

Hounds of Tindalos out of the brain. The Lich becomes a gate.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Yes! I can promise some enterprising Palpatine-like twit "Power! Unlimted poweeeeeeer!" and then give him what he deserves and then...

 

I need to find a way to turn a string off. As hilarious as it would be, I don't want my last act in this RPG to be turning a power-hungry twit into a gate that eats the world.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Yes! I can promise some enterprising Palpatine-like twit "Power! Unlimted poweeeeeeer!" and then give him what he deserves and then...

 

I need to find a way to turn a string off. As hilarious as it would be, I don't want my last act in this RPG to be turning a power-hungry twit into a gate that eats the world.

 

Depends on how wide you let it grow on the world-eating front.

 

Shutting down gates is very possible and actually somewhat easy. Which is something of a saving grace since they are so very dangerous. Since they give off magic, you can use that magic to shut them.

 

The trouble is not going insane or becoming a horrible mutant while doing so. Or, y'know, being eaten.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Sentient blood is more powerful, but animal blood will work. Just be willing to build a small pyramid of animal corpses if you plan to attain Lichdom. Expensive, time-consuming and probably leaves an unhappy village without game somewhere. In general, once the body starts to rot, the blood is useless. Utterly useless. Same for frozen blood. Once the cells die, no more magic from that red substance

 

Does the closeness to sentience help at all? Would, say, a chimpanzee be better game than cows? Or a pig, perhaps, as they are rather intelligent and, comparatively, biologically close to a human? I'd have no qualms stringing up a few hundred pigs for immortality. Supplies thereafter would be far more difficult, obviously.

 

Eh. The lack of pain and total loyalty is appealing to some.

 

Total loyalty never serves as well as wit and creativity, as history shows.

 

Who can say? I'm not.

As for gates, they have to be made by an intelligent being. So they are thankfully rare. Summoning opens up a gate for all of a second, so it is nowhere near as dangerous.

 

So how many people does one need to kill to cast Summon Cthulu?

About....fifty people. Yeah. Alot. Vampires require maybe six or seven people. So they're alot more common.

Liches are pretty powerful in this setting, hence why becoming one isn't easy. Their storage capacity is, in theory, unlimited, but they have to burn off the excess energy at a certain point or go insane. Maybe enough magic to create a vampire without blood. A Lich with the power to create another Lich without blood would be hopelessly insane. Not the evil cackling kind, the "I need help to move my legs" kind.

That's what a string does. Remotely funnels magic from the Outer Dark to the Lich. The kind of String that won't drive you insane within a few days will allow you to slowly gather excess energy and perform bloodless magic. Strings can be created for living mages, but the risk is rarely worth the reward for them-plus, y'know, casting spells while immersed in blood is hard. Very hard. Easy for something to go wrong.

Strings could, in theory, provide larger amounts of energy, but it'd take much more blood and you'd need to burn off excess energy at such a fast rate that you'll almost certainly be insane after the first five days. No one, as yet, has been moronic enough to try this on purpose.

 

Hmm, fifty people, that's not... fifty people!? I don't think Jack the Ripper killed that many people! Heck, if you do things by a ratio of total amount per size of the being, Unicron has a lower death count. You'd have to be the most violent, psychopathic, uncaring, egotistical, and selfish person in the planet to want to do that.

Hm. Well, I did say gates require a sentient being to make. But strings are, in essence, gates so small that nothing can slip through them...the string would keep getting wider and wider and eventually....

Hounds of Tindalos out of the brain. The Lich becomes a gate.

 

If a Lich is in an undead state, and thus no longer truly require their limbs, could they decrease their size to become more efficient? Perhaps to the point of allowing them to freely levitate as a form of motion, and not expend as much energy to hold them together? Akin, perhaps, to the Demilich of the old AD&D stuff; a Lich so ancient that it is no longer anything more than a skull? Because if you need to immerse your body in blood constantly, lowering that body size might be a tad bit helpful once your nervous system starts operating by magic.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

So... Pretty pretty lights? Turn everything in the surrounding area into zombies?

 

Hmm... I may need a team of wizards here. There's no way I could burn off the magic that turned that moron into a portal without suffering a similar fate.

 

Incidentally, the character arc of the doomed lich would be richly entertaining. First comes the thoughts of conquest and power as he realizes he can use as much power as he wants without running out. Then comes the horrific realization that he can use as much power as he wants without ever burning it all off. Then comes a spiral into madness, then complete helplessness, and, if he's very unlucky, a last shred of lucidity when he goes vegetative. He might even still be fully aware when the gate breaks him down into his constituent elements.

 

As for the kill counts... Richard the Lion-Heart killed more. Qin Shi Huangdi killed more. Genghis Khan killed more. You could totally make yourself a lich without even losing your good publicity.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Does the closeness to sentience help at all? Would, say, a chimpanzee be better game than cows? Or a pig, perhaps, as they are rather intelligent and, comparatively, biologically close to a human? I'd have no qualms stringing up a few hundred pigs for immortality. Supplies thereafter would be far more difficult, obviously.

 

Very much so. The closer to sentience, the more powerful the blood.

 

Only vampires need to worry about drinking blood on occasion. Liches are powered fully by the string. Which is why they need so much blood incidentally. A vampire's string is very very very weak. A Liches is much more powerful.

 

Total loyalty never serves as well as wit and creativity, as history shows.

 

If you want to be optimistic about things.

 

Hmm, fifty people, that's not... fifty people!? I don't think Jack the Ripper killed that many people! Heck, if you do things by a ratio of total amount per size of the being, Unicron has a lower death count. You'd have to be the most violent, psychopathic, uncaring, egotistical, and selfish person in the planet to want to do that.

Very few people can order the needed amount of animals killed (transporting the bodies is near impossible because the blood has be, y'know alive) and few would be willing to spill so much innocent blood. So yes, Liches are rare. Very much so. Like I said, fifty people or a small pyramid made out of the bodies of slain animals.

Killing hundreds of animals for their blood, digging a pool big enough to hold it all, and having someone totally loyal to cast the spell on standby isn't something that tends to happen often.

If a Lich is in an undead state, and thus no longer truly require their limbs, could they decrease their size to become more efficient? Perhaps to the point of allowing them to freely levitate as a form of motion, and not expend as much energy to hold them together? Akin, perhaps, to the Demilich of the old AD&D stuff; a Lich so ancient that it is no longer anything more than a skull? Because if you need to immerse your body in blood constantly, lowering that body size might be a tad bit helpful once your nervous system starts operating by magic.

 

Possibly. But hovering around actually takes more energy then just walking on your own two feet.

 

Constantly casting a spell to keep yourself hovering does that.

 

 

So... Pretty pretty lights? Turn everything in the surrounding area into zombies?

Hmm... I may need a team of wizards here. There's no way I could burn off the magic that turned that moron into a portal without suffering a similar fate.

Incidentally, the character arc of the doomed lich would be richly entertaining. First comes the thoughts of conquest and power as he realizes he can use as much power as he wants without running out. Then comes the horrific realization that he can use as much power as he wants without ever burning it all off. Then comes a spiral into madness, then complete helplessness, and, if he's very unlucky, a last shred of lucidity when he goes vegetative. He might even still be fully aware when the gate breaks him down into his constituent elements.

As for the kill counts... Richard the Lion-Heart killed more. Qin Shi Huangdi killed more. Genghis Khan killed more. You could totally make yourself a lich without even losing your good publicity.

 

Possibly. Also might open the way for an army of horrors. Or one very big horror. Or both. Or something worse.

 

The city that a gate ended got off pretty light all things considered.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Well, his (or her; evil is an equal-opportunity employer) awareness wouldn't last that long.

 

The hope is that the stable liches on standby would be able to burn off most of the magic before too many horrors came through. Of course, you could also have a bunch of liches-to-be ready and waiting to receive the power in a bloodless (technically) ritual.

 

Only problem is... If the string was pouring power in faster than ol' Palpy could use it, what hope would we have of closing the gate? Is the gate still receiving the power that the string was supplying to the lich, or does the new power stop flowing once he's, you know, atomized?

[Havelock Vetinari]

Well, his (or her; evil is an equal-opportunity employer) awareness wouldn't last that long.

 

The hope is that the stable liches on standby would be able to burn off most of the magic before too many horrors came through. Of course, you could also have a bunch of liches-to-be ready and waiting to receive the power in a bloodless (technically) ritual.

 

Only problem is... If the string was pouring power in faster than ol' Palpy could use it, what hope would we have of closing the gate? Is the gate still receiving the power that the string was supplying to the lich, or does the new power stop flowing once he's, you know, atomized?

 

You can use it's power against it. Double-edged sword.

 

If it gets big though....I advise having an army on standby. A good one.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Hmm

 

And what would you do to me if my last act in the RPG were to be failing to stop a world-eating portal of my own creation?

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

As for the kill counts... Richard the Lion-Heart killed more. Qin Shi Huangdi killed more. Genghis Khan killed more. You could totally make yourself a lich without even losing your good publicity.

 

With their own hand? Maybe Genghis Khan. And in any case, battlefield examples are when you are fighting against soldiers. Not non-combatants.

 

Very much so. The closer to sentience, the more powerful the blood.

Only vampires need to worry about drinking blood on occasion. Liches are powered fully by the string. Which is why they need so much blood incidentally. A vampire's string is very very very weak. A Liches is much more powerful. Gates require an obscene amount of blood.

 

I thought you said they needed literal blood baths to keep the power going from time to time?

Possibly. But hovering around actually takes more energy then just walking on your own two feet.

Constantly casting a spell to keep yourself hovering does that.

 

Hardly something that needs to be done as a constant. One can simply have a zombie carry them about when necessary. And even then, since you are no longer using magic to keep your body functioning, the t

 

Along a similar note, regarding the magic of the setting - can one create a gate, transport themselves to the Outer Dark, and then return? Has it ever been done? Could so powerful a Lich do it?

 

Are any mages more powerful, naturally, than others?

 

And what would you do to me if my last act in the RPG were to be failing to stop a world-eating portal of my own creation?

I'd obviously have to save the day for him, of course. Good aligned people are in short supply around these parts. And someone has to play a non-psychotic character.

Possibly. Also might open the way for an army of horrors. Or one very big horror. Or both. Or something worse.

The city that a gate ended got off pretty light all things considered.

 

Pleasant.

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

Edited June 9, 2013 by Toa Levacius Zehvor

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

The blood of soldiers would work just as well as the blood of villagers, and so long as the blood is fresh, there's no need for them to be killed by your hand. A fresh battle against those dreadful monsters that disagree with your views on the 'gods' of this 'verse would do quite nicely. Better, since nobody will ask inconvenient questions. And literally bathing in the blood of your enemies, all, assuredly, dreadful people? Nothing could be better for the PR of a conquering hero. Well, except that spear that he subsequently takes to the gut, rips out, and kills fifty more people with. I think you'll find that a certain amount of pragmatic villainy guides my hand here.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Ymper Trymon

[Havelock Vetinari]

Hmm

 

And what would you do to me if my last act in the RPG were to be failing to stop a world-eating portal of my own creation?

 

Nothing. At all.

 

Once the horrors start coming through, ambient magic in the area would be so high...well, expect the local legions to march in. Quickly. Losses would be obscene of course, but in the end, even a growing gate can be contained. Particularly since anyone can shut it if they get close enough. In this setting there's no reason a mage can't be a grizzled heavy armor-wearing, great-sword swinging bad arse. It just takes some training for you to learn how to tap into magic and use it. Not everyone has the dedication and frankly, the effect it can have on sanity ensures only a few people take the time.

 

I thought you said they needed literal blood baths to keep the power going from time to time?

 

They'll need to do it alot if the string is cut is what I said.

 

Hardly something that needs to be done as a constant. One can simply have a zombie carry them about when necessary. And even then, since you are no longer using magic to keep your body functioning, the t

Along a similar note, regarding the magic of the setting - can one create a gate, transport themselves to the Outer Dark, and then return? Has it ever been done? Could so powerful a Lich do it?

Are any mages more powerful, naturally, than others?

 

Oh. That'd work quite well actually. Not many would do it, but you'd gather excess energy faster.

 

It is possible. No one has been insane enough to try. No one that's been heard from since at least.

 

Nope. You just have to be willing to risk your sanity, being eaten, and be willing to cut yourself or others up.

 

The blood of soldiers would work just as well as the blood of villagers, and so long as the blood is fresh, there's no need for them to be killed by your hand. A fresh battle against those dreadful monsters that disagree with your views on the 'gods' of this 'verse would do quite nicely. Better, since nobody will ask inconvenient questions. And literally bathing in the blood of your enemies, all, assuredly, dreadful people? Nothing could be better for the PR of a conquering hero. Well, except that spear that he subsequently takes to the gut, rips out, and kills fifty more people with. I think you'll find that a certain amount of pragmatic villainy guides my hand here.

 

Ymper is right here. So long as the blood is fresh, it matters not from what kind of man it comes.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Ymper is right here. So long as the blood is fresh, it matters not from what kind of man it comes.

 

Hey, he was the one who wanted villager puree. If you're going to take a small army and conquer some land for god and country then go right on ahead.

 

Oh. That'd work quite well actually. Not many would do it, but you'd gather excess energy faster.

It is possible. No one has been insane enough to try. No one that's been heard from since at least.

Nope. You just have to be willing to risk your sanity, being eaten, and be willing to cut yourself or others up.

 

Something evil's watching over you. Coming from the sky above, and there's nothing you can do. Prepare to strike there'll be no place to run. When you're caught within the grip of the evil LICH SKULL OF DAEATH (WITH A DAE!) BUWAHAHAH

 

Or Unicron. And yes, I have that whole song memorized.

 

They'll need to do it alot if the string is cut is what I said.

 

Then that works much easier!

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Havelock Vetinari]

I should also note-the undead, liches included, need brains to function.

 

Kill the brain, you kill the ghoul.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Well, goodness knows that villagers are easier for my soldiers to kill.

 

Also, doesn't that have bad implications for liches whose soft parts rot away?

[Havelock Vetinari]

Well, goodness knows that villagers are easier for my soldiers to kill.

 

Also, doesn't that have bad implications for liches whose soft parts rot away?

 

Not really. The mind can be preserved with magic. The animating magic will stay after the nerves and organs fade away. The mind is the one thing that cannot be covered for with magic. Simply because it is waaaaaaaaay too complex. We still don't understand it today.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Which has delightful implications for my immortal god-king. Well, for the bodyguards/small army of wizard-liches that would help him rule (taking PC volunteers!). He would want to stay physically human, because while he's all for making sacrifices for the greater good, there are some things (wine, women, song) that he will not sacrifice on his own part.

[Toa Levacius Zehvor]

Not really. The mind can be preserved with magic. The animating magic will stay after the nerves and organs fade away. The mind is the one thing that cannot be covered for with magic. Simply because it is waaaaaaaaay too complex. We still don't understand it today.

 

So all you need is the brain? Now even the skull? You're saying... you created an RPG... where it is feasible for a player to become... a brain in a jar?

 

...

 

Awesome.

 

Hurry up and finish that rough draft.

 

Oh, and a new idea - could a Lich, theoretically, connect parts of other bodies into creating their own? For example, taking a hyper-athletic individual with an appearance of their choice, and having their own brain transferred to the new one? And then preserve it as if it were their own?

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

[Havelock Vetinari]

So all you need is the brain? Now even the skull? You're saying... you created an RPG... where it is feasible for a player to become... a brain in a jar?

 

...

 

Awesome.

 

Hurry up and finish that rough draft.

 

Oh, and a new idea - could a Lich, theoretically, connect parts of other bodies into creating their own? For example, taking a hyper-athletic individual with an appearance of their choice, and having their own brain transferred to the new one? And then preserve it as if it were their own?

 

-Toa Levacius Zehvor

 

Yes to both. Brain transplants like that are possible. If crude. You'd need to cut open the skull, take out their brain and put in yours.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Technically, you don't even need the physical brain. Just the magically-preserved electrical impulse patterns.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Technically, you don't even need the physical brain. Just the magically-preserved electrical impulse patterns.

 

...I had not thought of that.

 

Yeah sure. Go for it. Be difficult at this point in time, nearly impossible really. Since they don't know about electrical impulse patterns.

 

Hm. And you might lose your emotions. The ones linked to chemicals at least. Losses probably outweigh the gains. If you want to remain anything like a human.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Well, since you said that it persists anyway once the fleshy bits (that includes the brain) have rotted away, it's probably kind of inherent in the Lich-creating process. Might need some magic to keep the 'energy' of the mind stable in its new shell, but the preservation itself sounds like part of the Lich package.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Well, since you said that it persists anyway once the fleshy bits (that includes the brain) have rotted away, it's probably kind of inherent in the Lich-creating process. Might need some magic to keep the 'energy' of the mind stable in its new shell, but the preservation itself sounds like part of the Lich package.

 

I didn't intend that. The brain has to be preserved physically because, simply put, we still don't understand it today and it's the only really important part when you become a lich.

 

Going from what we know today would probably leave the magical pattern dangerously incomplete.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

So, is the fleshy brain just automatically preserved in the Lich-making process, or is not going the extra mile to make sure you stay physically alive a sucker's game?

[Havelock Vetinari]

So, is the fleshy brain just automatically preserved in the Lich-making process, or is not going the extra mile to make sure you stay physically alive a sucker's game?

 

There's no way to become physically alive again I'm afraid. Liches are simply the best option.

 

It'd require so much blood, such a large string that it's completely impossible to do it and preserve your sanity. The liches are at the exact upper limit of string size. Sizes that allow you to stay sane at least-and they can only sustain basic functions and the mind while generating a small amount of excess energy that isn't used.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Basilisk

[Madara: Mangekyou Master]

The "soul."

[Havelock Vetinari]

The "soul."

 

Fantasy verse designed by an atheist. Soul isn't a factor.

 

I was hinting at the bigger creatures of the Outer Dark with the inactive gods bit.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Yes, but unless I've badly misunderstood something, being dead isn't actually required to get the technical immortality of Lichdom. Once you're there, remaining physically alive is as easy as staying magically well-preserved and not dying.

[Havelock Vetinari]

Yes, but unless I've badly misunderstood something, being dead isn't actually required to get the technical immortality of Lichdom. Once you're there, remaining physically alive is as easy as staying magically well-preserved and not dying.

 

Not really. You need to die to become a lich. So once the spell ends, your heart stops beating. Blood starts dying. You no longer breath.

 

On the bright side, you don't need to worry about sickness or old age.