Munty Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I had a look through the S&T forum before posting this so hopefully it's not retreading old ground, though I'm sure it's certainly been discussed before! Anyway, what's brought me to discuss this is a recent Bionicle history binge that has seen me going through almost every scrap of media I can find on the various stories that have been penned over the years. There are a few things that don't quite add up but I have to say that on the whole I'm quite impressed. I remember Bionicle when it was just the island of Mata Nui and then vaguely recalled mention of Metru Nui but my interest waned about that time... I then read through the Wiki extensively to catch up on all the storyline I'd missed since then and so was aware of the Matoran Universe thing when I once again started going through the media. And it's true, the original comics and games and such still make perfect sense even in light of the new twist on the storyline. I thought all the mentions of Mata Nui being 'put to sleep' by Makuta wouldn't translate well as it was initially a king of spiritual or prophetic tale if you like. Actually though I was surprised to find it actually made more sense going through this stuff already armed with the knowledge that the grey stone symbolising Mata Nui actually represented a gigantic robot. Who knew?That aside though, there are a few curious things about how the various stories all fit together and one in particular is really bugging me since I finished reading the Piraka and Barraki comics. Any guesses to what that might be? Yup it's the whole Voya Nui, Mahri Nui thing and how on earth that story is supposed to make sense.First though a few other notable mentions. Here for anyone who wants/needs it is a link to the official map of the Matoran universe. It's always nice to have something official! http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081207192047/bionicle/images/8/8c/MatoranUniverse2.jpg And here is another one which I just found here at BZP when I was checking through the S&T forums for posts to similar to this one. Bonesii has answered a question about passage between Mata Nui the island and Mata Nui the being (or more specifically Metru Nui but it's the same principle! Here's a link to an image he put together of the relationship between the two islands before the whole 'giant robot' thing was thrown in there. Thanks Bonesii I love this pic! http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/bonesiii/Bionicle/bionicle_dome_3d.jpgRegardless of this excellent diagram though, the passage from Mata Nui below to Mata Nui above still puzzles me... Mata Nui the island was formed on top of the giant robot's face because it was sticking out of the water right? Part of the camoflage system apparently. So why and when exactly was the passage between these two locations created? When the Metru Nui Toa bought the first matoran spheres to the island from Metru Nui they arrived by sea. That means they never went anywhere near Mangaia (Makuta's underground lair) or Kini Nui which lay above it. I believe they're also shown leaving the island by sea when they return to Metru Nui to rescue the other Matoran (in the comics, the movies are completely out of any recognisable sequence in both time and events!) On top of that, we clearly see the Toa Metru leaving the Metru Nui dome in a boat through a hole in a gigantic stone wall after they defeat Makuta (Although this IS in the film I think it must be considered canon. I haven't seen any other media to dispute it personally at any rate.) Now that means that they leave Metru Nui on a boatr, and they leave MAta Nui on a boat too. So when exactly do they go from being inside the robot to being on the planets surface?Another inconsistency regarding the Metru Nuia-Mata Nui passage is the fact that they later construct airships to evacuate the remaining Matoran. This is mentioned in both the film and the comics I believe though I can't recall whether it's actually ever confirmed as the means of rescue. It could be that they changed their plan when they crashed into the stars There's another one to add to the mix anyway!Thirdly (and I think lastly) there is the infamous 'doorway' which somehow leads from Mangaia to the Metru Nui dome which features heavily at the end of the Mask of Light saga. This is probably the most talked about one for just that reason and it makes most sense of the lot too! I still have questions about it though... First off, where exactly IS this door? BEaring in mind that Mata Nui is actually directly on top of the robot's face, that means there really shouldn't be very much underground to speak of as the outer skin of the robot will form a kind of 'bedrock' which is above sealevel in most points. Of course there are depressions like eyes and the like so there would presumably be more depth there but where exactly would Mangaia be? Based on images of the official Great Spirit Robot I'd have to say the slight gap the resembles a mouth is the best location. BEaring in mind how huge the robot is, the mouth would certainly be big enough for a few underground caves and tunnels! In this case, the passage from Makuta's lair back into the Metru Nui dome (and more importantly the robot itself) could also be inside the mouth. Kind of logical in a way I suppose... Also, considering the fact that Makuta started off terrorising the Matoran in Metru Nui before ever moving up to the island of Mata Nui, it's not unbelieveable that this is a doorway he actually created himself. Of course, the Toa Metru started taking survivors up topside while Makuta was still frozen so I guess that doesn't quite work but still, was a thought for a moment there!So seriously, a great deal of questions just for dealing with this transition from inside the Mata Nui robot to the underground of the Mata Nui island. And I thought that was a simple one :DUnfortunately I have much more to ask so maybe you want to grab a drink before you read on... It's fine, it'll still be here later! Before I move onto my main questions I just wanted to query a few things that are bugging me. How is it exactly that this universe is inside a robot? And yes I know they're only toys for children and we were never meant to ask such questions but I'm not a child anymore and I wondered what the most accepted theories are behind all this. I mean, the Great Beings built this robot with help from the Matoran (who they also created, nice) but the thing is 40 million feet high! That's over seven and a half thousand miles, almost one third of the equator of Earth. Now consider the fact that this robot has an entire world built inside it, way before it's anywhere near finished... That means it must be built laying flat on it's back which is hard to believe as the curvature of Spherus Magna would cause serious problems. If that's not the case though, how exactly would the protodermis sea inside the robot and all of the landmasses there survive the gravitational force of the planet? It has to be a huge planet to support building this robot and therefore it must have a strong pull...This argument continues into when the robot is completed however as the islands are shown to be aligned on this same axis on every map ever made, meaning the back of the robot is essentially 'sea' and the front of it is 'sky' We can easily consider the robot to have it's own control over internal gravity once it's completed (we're buying everything else so this is hardly a stretch!) but how is it that movements made by the robot don't wreak havoc with the internal geography. We're talking knees, elbows, hips, shoulders and neck. Every time this guy moves any articulated appendage there would be massive upheaval inside. We're assuming there is some kind of inertial stabiliser for the Matoran universe as well as artificial gravity, so moving quickly and changing direction is no problem. Bending a limb however would move one part of the universe several thousand miles in a matter of seconds though, how can that be explained away? Only thing I can imagine is that the protodermis sea stops at each 'joint' and means of passage from one limb to another is somewhat magical in the form of some type of teleportation of gateway. Otherwise it would be possible to sit in a boat inside Mata Nui's kneecap and watch the ocean on either side of you rise and fall drastically while he's out for the morning jog! Just to top of the 'construction' side of things, how exactl is it that the great beings were able to essentially build a 7,500 mile long lake of protodermis without any of the other factions on the planet (who were currently killing each other for control of protodermis) finding out and attacking it constantly? But anyway, enough of this flirting! It's time for the big one and this is REALLY bugging me! I've read the wiki, seen the comics, watched the movies (they actually don't cover it but hey ho) and there are multiple gaping holes in the story surround Voya Nui, Mahri Nui and the pit. This could get complicated (especially if you aren't swatted up on your Matoran Universe history!) so pay attention and I'll try to break it down into how I understand this whole mess to be. Please correct me where I'm wrong and have a think about what I'm saying because I'll be wanting your own theories soon enough! So the southern continent is located in Mata Nui's abdomen and waist area, it's big and in a presumably very large dome which is in turn inside the great spirit robot itself. After the great cataclysm, this continent (like the whole robot!) is lucky enough to land face up so above it in sequence is the top of it's dome, the outer shell of the robot and far above the sealevel of Aqua Magna.Voya Nui doesn't exist until the great cataclysm at which point I guess the volcano does something strange and it breaks away from the mainland of the southern continent. It rockest upwards (somehow) and smashes through the southern continents dome and also the outer skin of the great spirit robot istelf which allows it to reach the surface where it apparently floats somehow...Mahri Nui is presumably formed soon after Voya Nui leaves the robot but there's no consistency to this timeline at all. Basically the volcano continues to erupt on the surface and the lave cools in the sea creating a new landmass which becomes Mahri Nui when some of the Matoran from the island build a settlement there. Mahri Nui later breaks away from the mainland and sinks back down inside the robot where it settles near the 'fields of airweed' which the Matoran somehow live long enough to manipulate into an air bubble that keeps their city safe despite being under water.The Pit (also important here!) is located BENEATH the southern continent and near to the hole left by the expulsion of Voya Nui to the surface. It's a prison for some nasty badguys on the inside and round the outside there are some nice mutagens in the water so any of the above nasties who tried to escape would be mutated in funky ways. Awesome right?Karda Nui is the last location that's important here (you'll no doubt be pleased to hear!) and surprise surprise it's located beneath everything else! This is the universe core though it has about five different names in all I think! This place is the heart of the great spirit robot and usually there are electrical storms that power him. These stopped at the time of the great cataclysm and caused the robot to crash. Consider it a monumental heart attack! Inside this place is the Codrex but that's not important. Apart from that it's basically empty!Now onto the important stuff! You may have spotted a sort of layer cake thing going on here with Karda Nui located in the small of the robot's back (funny place for a heart right?) The Pit located directly above it, then the mainland located above that. To my knowledge it's the only place inside the robot where this layering occurs. Quite why Karda Nui wasn't located under the Northern continent baffles me honestly, why put everything down here and nothing up where there's more space? Does the northern continent even get mentioned in a single storyline??? Anyway, not important... That's all fact, though again correct me if there's anything to contradict any of the above!So what happens of importance now is the great cataclysm. (Take note that prior to the cataclysm I have no issues with the internal layout of this robot. It seems like an illogical use of space but hey I've never tried building a 40 million foot universe-robot before. Maybe there are planning regulations...) So when the robot crashes lots of strange things happen and a few of them are rather contradictory. Here they come, from the bottom up!Karda Nui first, and this is confusing as some sources mention the pit and others completely ignore it... Basically, when Voya Nui left the robot it left a gaping hole in the centre of the Southern continent and also created a hole in the dome surrounding Karda Nui (the pit isn't mentioned) This meant that the water flooding in from the ocean of Aqua Magna fell straight through the centre of the southern continent and into the dome of Karda Nui. It formed the swamp of secrets but never flooded anything for some mysterious reason...The pit is said to have been damaged by the earthquake that resulted from Mata Nui's impact into Aqua Magna. This allowed the prisoners to escape but also caused many of them to die. Some accounts state that the swamp of secrets in Karda Nui was created from the mutagen of the pit leaking into the lower dome while others simply state that it was water from Aqua Magna.The Southern continent now has a gigantic Voya Nui shaped hole through it's centre but nothing else unusual seems to have happened here. The water pouring into the robot from the hole above simply falls straight through the hole in the continent and into Karda Nui (miraculously bypassing the pit)Voya Nui has now punched a hole through the top of the KArda Nui dome, top and bottom of the Southern continent's dome, the outer skin of the great spirit robot and of course the mainland itself. Water is flooding in as described several times above. Voya Nui itself reaches the surface of Aqua Magna and floats...Mahri Nui is now formed from lava as already mentioned and later breaks off from Voya Nui, sinking back into the robot but continuing to be connected by a 'cord' of lava that is still flowing from the volcano. It cools as the island sinks and hardens to form a solid rock link between the two landmasses. Mahri Nui comes to rest on top of the pit, crushing a Barraki base and becoming an 'anchor' to Voya Nui which stops it floating off.Now onto the problems with all of the above...How can it be that Voya Nui rocketed straight through the outer skin of the robot without simply being obliterated? It isn't even slightly damaged and most of the Matoran on it survive the cataclysm. Wierd...The immense amount of water flowing through the open wound to the robot would eventually flood the entire universe, fact. We know it's huge but we also know that this hole is left open for over 1,000 years (the time between Voya Nui popping to the surface and coming back down again)Islands DO NOT FLOAT. An island is part of a tectonic plate which has grown to protrude above the surface of the planets water level. They don't float, not a single part of them floats. Volcanos, jungles and deserts, do not float... So why is it that once Voya Nui reaches the surface it stays there? Mahri Nui doesn't form instantly so there is no connection at all between Voya Nui and the landmasses below. Even after Mahri Nui does form it takes time for the Matoran to colonise it and then more time for it to sink again.It's stated in many places that Mahri Nui becomes an 'anchor' for Voya Nui when it lands on the pit and the cord forms. Yet as mentioned above it would've been decades at the very least before the landmass formed and cooled. Then it had to be colonised and sink. Realistically 100 years would've passed at least. In addition, they wouldn't have moved onto the new land if the volcano was still erupting so how is it the cord was formed by lava that was still flowing from the volcano?When Mahri Nui finally DOES break away from Voya Nui, how is it that it sinks while the much larger, heavier Voya Nui does not? And how do the Matoran there survive a plunge of thousands of feet before reaching the fields of airweed and creating a bubble to live in? Even the Toa Inika failed to swim after the Kanohi Ignika when it plunged through these waters yet Matoran on a lump of hardened lava made it just fine with no warning or control...After spending so long 'floating' on the surface of Aqua Magna, why does cutting the cord suddenly cause Voya Nui to sink? And how is it that it falls perfectly back into it's original position? Also, how does Voya Nui crush Mahri Nui on the way back down if it came to rest on top of the pit? I know that's directly under where Voya Nui came from but surely the mainland doesn't rest exactly on top of the pit, and that's apparently where MAhri Nui stopped as it crushed a Barraki base when it landed itself. So how is it possible that the BArraki built a base here when Voya Nui was still located above but when it returned to it's original location it crushed something that had itself just crushed that inital base? Confusing right? Try reading it a few more times, I'm sure it's a logical argument!Is the Pit located between the southern continent and Karda Nui or not??? Even the Canon sources are very unclear about this! In one comic, the Toa chasing the mask of life swims down through the gigantic waterfall just in front of Voya Nui. They pass through the hole in the continent and then directly into the universe core. That suggests the pit wasn't actually there... However, for Mahri Nui to be crushed by Voya Nui it must've been in the path that this toa travelled and it's said in various locations that Mahri Nui landed ON the pit itself. Plus the added inconsistency regarding the flooding of KArda Nui by water or mutagen. Which was it??Lastly, what happened to the flooding of the robot body due to the hole made by Voya Nui? The hole existed for 1,000 years so clearly it's not been closed up or repaired, yet when Voya Nui returns to it's original place the flooding clearly stops immediately. Think about it, if the flooding continued then it would no longer have a path through to the 'unsinkable' Karda Nui and would instead fall directly onto the landmass of the Southern continent. It would have nowhere to go and eventually everything would die. I know the robot gets up not long after Voya Nui returns but he'd still have a massive hole in him and I don't think the Matoran universe would do much better in a vacuum than it would in a flood! Just a few more unrelated queries I forgot earlier on...Where were the Bohrok? The Turaga apparently knew of the Bohrok before coming to Mata Nui as Toa so they must have existed before their initial appearance on the island. There are also the fake Bohrok used at the time of Norik's Toa Hagah team (Borok without Krana) as they can be seen fighting in one comic. Additionally, thousands of Bohrok and the Bahrag were already concealed beneath the island of Mata Nui, it's hard to believe they're only as old as the Great cataclysm. Additionally, the Krana were original experiments by the great beings and so they themselves are over 100,000 years old. I think my money is in the Bohrok nest being part of Mata Nui's face and other nests also existing throughout the MAtoran Universe. It's said that miners in the great spirit robot once disturbed a nest so it fits. Lastly, how did the canisters containing the Toa Mata manage to escape from inside the body of Mata Nui and reach the island? Why were they even sent to the island? I know the destiny card can be played to answer a lot of questions but for me this needs some explaining. They went into their canisters soon after the robot was activated and stayed there for 99,000 years until Mata Nui needed them. Why is it that when they were launched, they exited the robot body and headed for the surface of the planet instead of heading for somewhere logical like Metru Nui? There was no way for the canisters or the Toa inside them to know that they were even ON a planet, let alone the fact that they were needed on the FAKE island of Mata Nui and not in the actual districts of Metru Nui, the brain city of the entire universe...So go figure... I know this is an obscenely long post and probably noone will bother reading the whole thing (let alone responding to it!) But it's been bugging me more and more with every comic I see and every wiki I read. If anyone has thoughts on the above I'd love to hear them!Also if we have any clever people out there with time to spare I'd love to know how much water was coming through that hole every day. Then all we need is the approximate volume of a 40million foot robot and we can see if it would have flooded or not. I'm thinking it would as this hole was continent sized... Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.B.O.C Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I can at least cover the last two topics:Bohrok: You know how the island of Mata Nui cover the face of the robot? Passageways extend from the surface (the main one being Kini-Nui, which is part of the Mata Nui robot) and lead down to the Great Barrier around Metru Nui. Within the caves/passageways (near Mangiaia) are the Bohrok Nests, which contain the many stasis chambers for the Bohrok. The Turaga knew about Bohrok because a small nest was discovered under Metru Nui and the matoran archived and studied them, one of which was Whenua.Toa Mata: The Toa Mata were sealed in their Toa Canisters within the Codrex (inside Karda Nui, the center, or heart, of the Mata Nui robot) A function would jettison the canisters (probably within a system inside the robot, they were meant to be able to do so) which would rocket outside the body, and land on Mata Nui, (which would be a barren wasteland, as it normally would be) Then they would go down Kini Nui, through the passageways, and arrive in Metru Nui, where they could begin to awaken Mata Nui.Hope this helps.EDIT: The only reason they didn't immediently go to Kini-Nui and head for Metru Nui was because of a canister malfunction. The canisters, instead for going directly for Mata Nui, instead stayed in the ocean for 1000 years. This time period made the Toa inside literally decompose and fall apart. When they finally reached Mata Nui, the time lapse made them lose their memories of their mission, and also, the flora and inhabitants of the island distracted them, as they were never meant to be there. Edited February 22, 2012 by T.B.O.C Quote My Brickshelf, please don't copy!... ...Looking for shiny Regirock, Articuno, and Virizion!(Can trade most any legendary for them!)My 3DS friend list is full, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BULiK Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Ok, I'm doing this as I go*gulp*5th paragraph:Okay, so to me, I'm thinking that the passage between mata nui and metru nui dome was made by the Great beings(who will be known as GBs for short)as a maintenance tunnel that winds like a small ramp so ships can go to and fro(if they can open the gate so mangiaia, Which I assume is the exit of the path because it consists of the great door that you mention which puzzles you, and it is below kini-nui, which is a retractible part of the MU robot, but I think that the way the that the toa metru go is a side tunnel oepening that is smashed through the side of the tunnel, (because remember, the great catacylsm is a giant robot falling from the sky crashing into the (relatively to a 70 million or so foot tall robot) shallow water) which if you look at bonesiii's picture you mention, I think it is where bonesii's interpritation of the tunnel gets close to the northern tip of the island (to your right in the po-wahi area) and they choose that tunnel because they other way is guarded by a boiling water trap if it remember correctly, which is one of the many defense mechanisms so that foriegners from other planets cannot get into the MU and wreak havoc without considereable force, but the tribal planets matas nui would go on, most explorers would die because they dont do a giant expedetion, and tehir unknown deaths would ward of their tribal friends)because They know that mata nui's hull is practicly indestructable(except for cosmic collisions n' such)so MU inhabitants and some sometimes their creations fail, and so they want a sorta failsafe for the bohrok: lets say for some reason the bohrok break, malfuction, or get defeated by foriegners(because this system wasn't initially designed to be only on aqua magna; mata nui might have landed of an inhabited planet, to observe the inhabitants of the planet without ya know... flying over their planet.... which would probably freak them out.)so this way, there was a tunnel, so beings like makuta(who know that this is a giant robot)can come up and clean the island with the makuta's creations if the bohrok fail (mata nui (if he was paying attention) would probably tell them or something, I mean he does control the universe after all ).and i'm assumingin that tunnel there would be a roof of air, so airships could just sqeeze through, bypassing the other defence stuff the metru originally faced on their boat journey and going out the same breach because that is the only one they know how to go though and they have no idea where the other, main one goes to (mangaia)Next part:we really have no idea about the MU robot's artificial gravity generator, but I think that there was an gravity generator in every dome., so when he moved the limbs, they didn't crush the matoran workers powering him.then there would be waterways between the limbs (water can bend around so there wouldn't be frequent earthquakes as there would be if it was land passages.The spherus magna inhabitants weren't fighting over just protodermis: it was the energized protodermis; which was incredibly powerful and deadly. the protodermis in the MU was artificial protodermis; created by the Gbs to fill the empty spaces and give a good means of travel (going in a boat by water tunnels between limbs and domes is better than walking 100 miles by all means)okay, part with pictures:oh and about not having karda nui in the northern part of mata nui, picture this: a 40 million ft tall robot leaning over, and oops: it's too top-heavy and falls over, making alot of damage OR like the GBs made it:a lighter top and a sturdier waist so it wouldn't fallBelow is a picture of my depiction of why voya nui floats until the cord is createdPicturesee, A is mount valmai, voya nui's volcano. during the catacylsm, it was know to have had a violent explosion, most likely triggered by the catacylsm earthquake and its multiple aftershocks, which uprooted voya nui, probably carrying along most of the top half of the dome of karda nui © giving the bottom of the floating voya nui a bubble-ish shape, which likely trapped the air from karda nui, helping it float. and it is know that voya nui had a large underground seal-able cave system (http://www.bzpower.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png, which the matoran used to live in when it came down. but that probably played a vital role when It was coming up: the island would be mostly hollow (karda nui was mentioned to be riddled with caves on all sides., so that makes sense with voya nui having a giant cave system)and mahri nui:pictureya see, I think that When mt. valmai exploded, it... exploded. not just a giant cloud of smoke and whatnot, but part of the top blowing up, spewing lava in that direction mostly, and continueing years after to have slow lava flows in that direction (like mt. st. helens but a few months more sudden)(F)(other sides got their fair share of lavaly death, hence the desert and black volcanic rocks surrounding the volcano) It flowed the short distance to the middle (pothole) and died quickly in the water. ableit unstable, after it had mostly cooled some of the matoran moved there and build some small buildings. but after a short time (a year of so) the lava built up so much that the weak foundations on the sub-island broke apart and then it sunk quickly to the sea. some matoran survived, maybe by air trapped in building roofs and then they found airweed, so then they built up from there.and about the waterfall and karda nui:Pictureokay, Okay, so now I'll be tackling the other questions and adding pictures tomorrowokay, I'll update this post after I post it so I dont get ninja'dsorry for bad grammar Edited February 23, 2012 by Bulik Quote Visit www.BZPRPG.com to view my project of archiving BZPower's RPGs, and also access the BZPower Roleplaying Wiki BZPRPG Profiles - Ghosts Of Bara Magna Profiles Exo-Force RPG Profiles - Six Kingdoms: Apocalypse (Knichou, Berys, Arnex, The Taku, Exuze) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Wow, excellent stuff guys thankyou very much!Bohrok: You know how the island of Mata Nui cover the face of the robot? Passageways extend from the surface (the main one being Kini-Nui, which is part of the Mata Nui robot) and lead down to the Great Barrier around Metru Nui. ... a small nest was discovered under Metru Nui and the matoran archived and studied them, one of which was Whenua.That makes perfect sense, it's actually exactly what I guessed at in my original post which kind of makes it the logical solution as well :D It does raise another question about Kini Nui though... Both of you said that it's actually part of the robot but what part exactly? And how much of it is robot, how much camoflage? What with the MU robot laying on it's back, feet down in the water, his forehead would actually be the highest part of the island. Kini Nui is located near his nose/mouth area though which would be further underwater. Is it canon that it's a retractable part of the robot or is it fanon? (Bear in mind I'm not disputing the given answers, just pondering how far down the camo goes and how high up the robot comes!)Toa Mata: A function would jettison the canisters (probably within a system inside the robot, they were meant to be able to do so) which would rocket outside the body, and land on Mata Nui,Also makes good sense! I did think when I was writing the post that this could be explained by having the robot specifically built to enable the launch of these canisters. My main reason for dismissing the theory was that I couldn't see any real purpose for dispatching the Toa OUTSIDE the universe as I figured any threat to Mata Nui would be inside the robot. Now you mention it though, the camoflage system was clearly in place to allow the robot to hide in plain sight on the surface of a planet while carrying out it's mission. That makes it logical that the Toa may be needed outside of the body on the newly created landmass as you explain. Case closed :DOkay, so to me, I'm thinking that the passage between mata nui and metru nui dome was made by the Great beings as a maintenance tunnel that winds like a small ramp so ships can go to and fro (if they can open the gate so mangiaia, Which I assume is the exit of the path because it consists of the great door, and it is below kini-nui. I think the way the the toa metru go is a side tunnel oepening that is smashed through the side of the tunnel, and they choose that tunnel because they other way is guarded by a boiling water trap if it remember correctly. [left]and i'm assumingin that tunnel there would be a roof of air, so airships could just sqeeze through, bypassing the other defence stuff the metru originally faced on their boat journey and going out the same breach because that is the only one they know how to go though and they have no idea where the other, main one goes to (mangaia)[/left][left][/left][left]I actually did a little more wiki'ing after I posted last night and learned of 'The Great Barrier' for the first time. It's basically a gigantic sphere which houses Voya Nui and the silver sea and such stuff. The wiki states [i]' There were also several gates in the barrier that connected them to Metru Nui.'[/i] but the strange grammar makes it hard to know exactly what's meant as I have no idea what 'them' is. The last thing mentioned were the eyes of the robot which acted as Metru Nui's suns but how can you have a gate from the eyes to Metru Nui? Anyway, I think I also read somewhere else that the passageway the Toa Metru used to leave the silver sea DOES take them directly to the surface. It really is the only thing that makes sense as, like I said, all travel between the two locations is done with boats. That means tunnels are out of the question so it must be a direct route. It does raise the question of where this passage could be though as the water level in the silver sea is far lower than that on the Aqua Magna surface. Not to mention the fact that the Silver sea is protodermis and the natural sea is presumably not! So some answers and a few more questions here :D I'm still not sure how the airships could work personally though...[/left][left][/left][left]we really have no idea about the MU robot's artificial gravity generator, but I think that there was an gravity generator in every dome., so when he moved the limbs, they didn't crush the matoran workers powering him.[/left][left]then there would be waterways between the limbs (water can bend around so there wouldn't be frequent earthquakes as there would be if it was land passages.[/left][left]The spherus magna inhabitants weren't fighting over just protodermis: it was the energized protodermis; which was incredibly powerful and deadly. the protodermis in the MU was artificial protodermis; created by the Gbs to fill the empty spaces and give a good means of travel (going in a boat by water tunnels between limbs and domes is better than walking 100 miles by all means)[/left][left][/left][left]Individual gravity generators (or similar systems) certainly make sense as they would also act as localised inertial dampers in each dome. I'm still baffled by how the Matoran travel from one dome to another. Consider each dome to be a tectonic plate for example and the flexing of any articulated joint on the MU robot to be a movement of the fault line. It would only be possible to move from one dome to another when those plates lined up correctly, say when Mata Nui is still. Perhaps the robot needed to spend a cetain amount of time per day/month/whatever, resting and recharging, which would give the MAtoran inside a window of opportunity to move between domes. Of course the trouble here is that the story doesn't support this theory BUT the robot is still during the entire tale so that doesn't really matter I guess! It's said that the southern islands still aren't explored (in the robot's legs) Maybe they're particularly hard to access due to these constant 'shifts'. It would certain explain the fact that they haven't been explored in over 100,000 years...[/left][left][/left][left]oh and about not having karda nui in the northern part of mata nui, picture this: a 40 million ft tall robot leaning over, and oops: it's too top-heavy and falls over, making alot of damage OR like the GBs made it:a lighter top and a sturdier waist so it wouldn't fall[/left][left][/left][left]I guess that could make sense but then you'd still think they could find a better way to arrange the internal layout than one island deep everywhere except one point where it's 3 deep... It's said that Karda Nui is as large as the southern continent. This in tunr looks larger than the Northern continent on the official maps (but this isn't confirmed anywhere and given the relatively large size of Voya Nui in comparison to the continent it may not be so huge after all) But the Wiki does list the Northern continent as 'much larger than Mata Nui' suggesting that Karda Nui could be even larger than that. What with Mata Nui being about 300 miles long, 4% of the size of the great robot, and the northern continent being 'much' larger, that could place a massive scale on the universe core. Which does kind of make sense, you know because it's the core of the universe an' all... Anyway, maybe the pairing of KArda Nui and the Southern continent make sense but it seems odd that the pit would be sandwiched between them. I'd actually thought the pit was BELOW KArda Nui before I started reading to compose this post yesterday. Why would you call it the pit and not have it down in the bottom of something? Anyway, in response to your thoughts of being top heavy, why not have karda nui in the waist and put the pit up in the chest? It's guaranteed to be MUCH smaller than the main continents so less weight but a better layout nonetheless! I can't remember where I saw the information stating that the pit was located between the core and southern continent but is it canon? It really would make more sense if it could be changed! The wiki on the pit states [i]'Ehlek also built a base there, although it was destroyed when Mahri Nui sank.' [/i]when it's talking about the seas of the outer pit. Maybe that means the pit CAN be north of karda nui and the southern continent but it still doesn't fit with everything. Mahri Nui is said to have landed 'dangerously close' to the pit which also backs up the above statement, however Karda Nui and the pit cannot physically occupy the same space and it's said that the former is the same size as the southern continent. That would mean that the hole left by Voya Nui's departure was SMALLER than Karda Nui and therefore Voya Nui crushing Mahri Nui would be impossible if it landed on or near the pit. There's also a mention made somewhere that 'leaking pit mutagen' formed the swamp of secrets which would place the outer pit directly between the southern continent and Karda Nui. This may be starting to make some sense... The inner pit could be located north of KArda Nui, beneath the Northern continent. It could be relatively small (much smaller than the northern continent as this is at least 500 miles wide!) but the waters surrounding it, the outer pit, could have extended all throughout the back of the robot. Imagine Mata Nui's torso laying flat on it's back, now fill it part way with pit mutagen. This becomes the outer pit and then the inner pit (with a dome) is placed in the Northern part of the torso, while Karda Nui is placed in the southern part near the waist. Above this 'layer' is the protodermis sea, floating like oil on water. In this sea are the islands of the northern and southern continents, each located above one of the aforementioned locations. During the great Cataclysm, the dome protecting the inner pit and holding back the mutagenic water is destroyed, thus flooding the inner pit. Karda Nui, whose dome is broken/lifted off when Voya Nui leaves the robot, is partially flooded by mutagen from the outer pit creating the swamp of secrets. The only remaining mystery is why both the mutagen and the water from Aqua Magna above stopped flooding this area...[/left][left][/left][left]Below is a picture of my depiction of why voya nui floats until the cord is created[/left][left]Picture[/left][left]see, A is mount valmai, voya nui's volcano. during the catacylsm, it was know to have had a violent explosion, most likely triggered by the catacylsm earthquake and its multiple aftershocks, which uprooted voya nui, probably carrying along most of the top half of the dome of karda nui © giving the bottom of the floating voya nui a bubble-ish shape, which likely trapped the air from karda nui, helping it float. and it is know that voya nui had a large underground seal-able cave system ( http://www.bzpower.com/board/public/style_emoticons//cool.png, which the matoran used to live in when it came down. but that probably played a vital role when It was coming up: the island would be mostly hollow (karda nui was mentioned to be riddled with caves on all sides., so that makes sense with voya nui having a giant cave system)[/left]Agreed, that sounds highly plausible. The lifting off of the Karda Nui dome would help explain the damage it sustained during the cataclysm and the settling of Voya Nui later on would explain how it became resealed (as the staff of Artakha couldn't repair this region) This does raise another question of how a volcano came to be on the island though. Where would the molten protodermis come from? Though that said it never errupted until the great cataclysm did it? Either way there's something funny going on there which kind of needs explaining! Maybe the bubble supporting the island wasn't air but protodermis? I already said it floats on top of pit mutagen, maybe it has these 'island floating' capabilities too? After all, how does Metru Nui survive? Maybe that's not connected to the actual robot either but it floats on the Silver sea. Same with all the other islands, they're in domes so they can't be connected to anything can they? Plus if the island is being floated on protodermis and the island is trying to sink regardless there would be a real struggle going on beneath the volcano too. Maybe the eruptions were actually caused by friction melting the protodermis, as official sources have told us that molten protodermis is what comes from the eruptions anyway! It would also explain why the eruptions stop when the cord is in place as it'll be supporting enough of the weight to calm the struggle beneath the island. It seems that I answered one of my own questions yesterday though as the volcano was continually 'leaking' molten protodermis into the bay. That essentially means the island was still 'sinking' very slowly but it also explains the formation of the cord after MAhri Nui broke off from the mainland. Worth a thought at least...[left][/left][left]and mahri nui:[/left][left]picture[/left][left]ya see, I think that When mt. valmai exploded, it... exploded. not just a giant cloud of smoke and whatnot, but part of the top blowing up, spewing lava in that direction mostly, and continueing years after to have slow lava flows in that direction (like mt. st. helens but a few months more sudden)(F)(other sides got their fair share of lavaly death, hence the desert and black volcanic rocks surrounding the volcano) It flowed the short distance to the middle (pothole) and died quickly in the water. ableit unstable, after it had mostly cooled some of the matoran moved there and build some small buildings. but after a short time (a year of so) the lava built up so much that the weak foundations on the sub-island broke apart and then it sunk quickly to the sea. some matoran survived, maybe by air trapped in building roofs and then they found airweed, so then they built up from there.[/left][left]See above :D[/left][left][/left][left]and about the waterfall and karda nui:[/left][left]Picture[/left]May just be me but no piccies on these last two yet. I guess that's what you mean when you say you'll do the rest later so I'll wait and see :DThanks to both of you for the responses though, I'm pretty anal when it comes to these things as you may well have noticed. I'd like to be completely sold on the whole giant robot thing but we need to clear this up first :D Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BULiK Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 *cracks knuckles*This is what I think:okay, so I'm going to try to answer the questions in your most erecent post, and edit my earlier post for the ones in the first post.so, about the passage to mata nui:I was trying to explain that there was a giant ramp that the Toa Metru traveled through, like a tunnel half full an half empty with water. the empty part on the tunnel would be big enough for an airship to get through, and the water part had all the traps to keep tribal alien foreigners out. It probably circled around the dome, creeping up higher and higher, but not so steep because boats can get through. and the air filled upper half of the tunnel had enough space for the toa's airship to get by, because it isn't some hot air ballon: they control the levitation disk's power in the airship's "engines" to raise or lower it, so they wouldn't be bumping around the ceiling, if you were wondering.Does that make sense?On the note of gravity generators:Think. the matoran weren't built to make civilization: they are, in the eyes of the GBs, robot workers to repair the MU robot and power it. so they wouldn't need to travel that much. but if so, as I stated before, I think it would be a small waterway they could go through. any confusion?okay, noew I can barely sort through anything, so abut the bpit:I would put this about what you said in the first post, but whateverI don't think the pit had mutagen to begin with; I think a power leak (because falling and landing into a planet would do some damage) was created when the cataclysm stuck which ripped a hole in the roof. there might have been some sort of lighting system that the power leaked when the roof broke or something, mutating the pit's new waters. over time this pollution spread to most of the deep waters around the pit. but of course, remember, this is all in my imagination, and I don't have time to look up sources right now, so I'm stating what to me is plausible.okay, now I'm worn out form typing so much. I'll try to do something, maybe make a video If I have the tyime because explaining would be easier that way, with hand guesters and such.(because talking is easier than typeinng) Quote Visit www.BZPRPG.com to view my project of archiving BZPower's RPGs, and also access the BZPower Roleplaying Wiki BZPRPG Profiles - Ghosts Of Bara Magna Profiles Exo-Force RPG Profiles - Six Kingdoms: Apocalypse (Knichou, Berys, Arnex, The Taku, Exuze) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Alright, since this is so long and I don't have the mental energy to read once and then re-read to find what to reply to, I'll type this as I read. Sorry if a lot ends up being redundant...Just skimming ahead a bit, I think I can theorize something that should clear up many issues -- the idea that there is an atmosphere-containing forcefield projected all over the "skin" of the giant robot. Solids could pass through, but not air. This way there can simply be many openings with no solid door, or where there is a hatch, it need not worry about being airtight. This would also apply to the eyes, except that those project a colored energy field which also has the power of granting vision to the ruler of the robot; at the other entrances the field would be invisible most likely.There do indeed seem to be many openings. Some of these might be intentional, like the hatch at the foot shown in the comics (at least I think that's what it was... bad mem...), but I think many others are simply cracks caused by the Great Cataclysm. Others are for Bohrok to get through.A little confused why you said "Although this IS in the film I think it must be considered canon". In case it's not clear, movies are almost always the most canon.The airships were taken up through one of the eyes. This is mainly how we know the eyes can't be covered with anything like glass, hence my forcefield theory.Where Mangaia door -- my guess, and it's only that, is that it's due north of Metru Nui. But this is probably contradicted somewhere; I dunno if it was ever mentioned which direction from the island they sailed from and to, and if so, then that would be the place to look for the real answer. I go with due north only because it's opposite of the neck to the south, and where apparently the Tren Krom peninsula is also to the south.I highly doubt the mouth connects in any way with the rest of the MU, at least not intentionally so. The robots talk while fighting, which seems to imply the mouth was moving. Anyone caught in there while he was talking would be in huge danger. Of course, it's a little confusing how such a huge mouth, that's not articulated like a human mouth and has no room behind it for much of an interior could function like that, so maybe it's just aesthetic and something like giant speakers inside create the voice. :shrugs:It was built standing up, according to one of the images from the Mata Nui Saga, voiced by Michael Dorn. I don't recall if this was confirmed, but I would treat it as virtually canon fact that the gravity generators must have been put in before Matoran were, and were operational the whole time. So "down" to the Matoran would be towards his back while standing up.Lemme see if I can dig up that pic.... Here: http://www.brickshel...3b65cce4d01.jpgEven if it had been built laying on its back, Spherus Magna is so astoundingly huge compared to Earth (though with apparently Earthlike gravity) that curvature would not have been a noticeable problem.In case you don't know, artificial gravity is confirmed, and I believe the only time since it was turned on that it was ever off was when Mata Nui briefly died. Since it was indeed on its back then, it didn't matter. In fact nearly all physics inside the robot are controlled by the ruler of the robot. You can assume safely that all confirmed Toa elements, for example, are fully under the ruler's control everywhere. That includes gravity. :)I think it's also safe to assume there are inertial dampers like in Star Trek, and probably far better ones (since in ST it seems like even when what are basically just souped-up lasers, not even physical objects, hit they all fly from their seats wildly lol). The joints I have often wondered about myself, and in short I think flexible materials are used, or sectioned metal tubes that do the same thing, and gravity bends exactly to the joint bending.Imagine a long strip of blue carpet cut as a narrow rectangle. Bend it, and you'll see that no matter how you bend it, the "fuzz" side still stays just on one side. And the bends wouldn't be near as extreme as carpet can do. Now pretend the blue fuzz is instead water kept there by gravity generators and you've got a good idea of how I picture it. :)Teleportation gateways may be possible too; basically wormholes the sea moves through. Arguably that would spend a lot more energy though, so I tend to doubt it.As for keeping it a secret, I don't really know if they did, but as I say, it was a huge planet. And the GBs are inventive; I'm sure they had ways.Now as I get to your Voya Nui stuff, I wanna preface this with some general comments. Sizes, in my opinion, on the map of the universe you linked earlier, are not at all accurate. I (personally, maybe just me) greatly, greatly prefer the shape of the giant robot shown in all the images as in the Mata Nui Saga. But that map simply could never fit inside that robot. The waist especially is way too narrow. If the robot fit around that map, he'd be fat lol.So I think the map should be taken as just a basic idea, so the locations are accurate but not the sizes.This is especially obvious with Voya Nui -- if it was that huge, its rocketing through the ceiling of the continent's dome would utterly destroy nearly the entire front of the giant robot's torso, and the hole it ripped would be so huge the Matoran Universe would basically instantly flood. The other images we've seen of a relatively tiny hole with a narrow waterfall coming through it I take as the only canon ones, implying Voya Nui must be very, very tiny, even for an island. Nowhere near as big as Mata Nui Island, for example. Its flying up through the ceiling would be more like a mosquito bite to us, contrasted with the map's depiction which would be more like a cannonball.As for the "continent", if you compare the size of Mata Nui Island on the map, presume that it covers the face the way we saw in that video of him standing up, and then look at all the images of the giant robot, at the waist area, the southern continent would really be barely bigger than Mata Nui Island (MNI). I think the term is relative, and that there is just one ceiling inside the entire torso, and the three islands in the torso are much smaller than MNI. If a mapmaker, for example, from Xia were to compare either continent (both should really be about the same size according to my above reasoning), they would almost certainly call MNI a continent too.We usually call the places the islands and continents are in "domes", but it seems likely to me that "dome" doesn't quite describe the shape of the torso area. If I'm right that it's all one space, it would be more like a box shape. If you seriously shrink the Southern Continent (SC) and also shrink the Northern Continent (NC) and the three islands with it, it COUlD work with the SC being in its own smallish dome, and the NC and three islands of Stelt, Xia, and Zakaz being in another one, maybe a little larger of a dome than the SC's dome.The map also has dome-related problems with all four limbs. There doesn't seem to be enough room shown for domes to circle most of them, and the biggest example is in the foot to the right. So in most of those cases too I would interpret the islands as much smaller. But through all this, there's no reason for MNI to need to be shrunken, so it might in fact be the same size as the NC, or even bigger!Anywho, moving on...Voya Nui's rocketing up is a subject I'm foggy on now. I know what caused it was something like an overload of the energy storm in Karda Nui (which was directly beneath its former SC location). I don't recall how the heck the Matoran on it survived colliding with the ceiling, or for that matter the force of the island being pushed upward. Another thing that confuses me is how it kept its rather brittle two northern peninsulas. I would expect the whole thing to be shattered into a thousand tiny bits, and maybe a big boulder in the middle, killing everyone.The Mask of Life is probably the key to how the Matoran survived, though. After all, VN is all about the Mask of Life, and it always was. It's possible everything else was predicted, and safeguards put into place, by the GBs who hid it, or by destiny systems (see my Inika Lightning theory open here right now for more of my thoughts on destiny).It's also possible the Ignika itself used clever tactics to ensure the island would remain intact -- and this might also explain the floating. Perhaps it made all the rock of the island alive, and the volcano remained active because the Ignika turned it into a heart for this organism. Perhaps the rock was modified to be more like living cells, but with the cell interiors being bubbles of air, like pumice. Later on, this island-organism may have died of old age, and it was no longer really floating, but the stone cord held it in place.So it would float for just long enough for Mahri Nui to form, fall in, and the stone cord to form connecting the two. The cord would at first act like an anchor for the floating island, but later would become thick and strong enough to act as a pillar actually holding it up.And if the rock was already being made into this living form as it flew upwards, it may be more flexible instead of brittle, explaining how it stayed intact. Perhaps the nature of this change also explains why the coasts are ice. In order to run a volcano on a floating island something obviously must be in operation that is very abnormal. Volcanic heart needs heat; if the "cells" on the outer edges absorbed heat from the environment, channeling it into the heart, this would make the edges cold, and ice would form naturally due to seawater.Another problem is all the new mass of Mahri Nui and the cord, though. Maybe the island had to literally eat itself from the inside out in order to keep this heart running, so by the time the Toa came it was a lot more hollow than before, and had almost no rock left it could draw from. This would support the dying of old age theory.Most of this could work too if instead of the Ignika turning the island alive it was a nonliving set of systems and physics properties assigned long ago by the Great Beings as contingencies. (The physics properties explanation would especially work under my cyberclay theory, as protodermis would then not be limited by the physics of real-world materials.)Still confusing how the Matoran weren't at least swept off the island as it passed through the ceiling though. Unless perhaps the Ignika mentally ordered them to get into caves, or maybe the Order (Axonn, Brutaka) realized what was about to happen and gave that order. The Rahi's survival could, I suppose, also work under either idea.The Mahritoran surviving is harder to explain, yeah.I think again we can appeal to the Ignika's presence. It may have sensed that people were drowning and wanted to stop that, so it temporarily held them alive even though they couldn't breathe. It's also possible the "airweed" itself was actually created by the Ignika just so they'd find it, since it couldn't hold them alive that way for long.The idea of appealing to the GBs or even the Order doesn't seem to work for this one. This may be evidence that the former problem was solved by the Ignika too; that it has been a lot more active in events surrounding it than we previously thought.The Pit is NOT beneath the SC, but on top of the Great Spirit's torso. I think the Pit is a hole caused by the Great Cataclysm that wasn't there in the original design and may have been repaired by that magical staff thingy before it stood up. And that Mahri Nui landed so that almost half of it stuck out over this hole, and more than half landed on the outer surface of the torso, so it didn't fall in the hole.I don't recall off the top of my head why there were mutagens there; this is probably relevant somehow. I think it might have had something to do with the mutagenic swamp in Karda Nui, but not sure. Anyone?Again, I don't know how you got the idea that the Pit is BENEATH the Southern Continent, but it is the opposite. I'm very curious why you thought that, because I don't see how you could. All the Voya Nui/Mahri Nui/Pit stuff clearly took place in the surface ocean, above the SC's ceiling.The only intentional layering is that Karda Nui has its own unique dome beneath the SC's "dome." The other three layers -- Pit above SC's ceiling, Mahri Nui above that, and VN at the Aqua Magna ocean surface -- all happened later.Actually, now that I think about it, I'm probably wrong that the Pit happened later. This may be a contradiction that hasn't been noticed, or maybe I'm out of the loop on it, but I think Botar was said to have teleported the Barraki there long, long before the Great Cataclysm. Also there was an old Pit and a new Pit.So the OLD Pit is NOT in a new hole, but in a tiny prison built into the ceiling, just under the outer skin of the robot. Admittedly it is a very strange place to put a prison, lol. This old Pit was probably damaged by tremors from VN coming through, so the new Pit was made in a hole. Some of the details here are sketchy and probably wrong, though.The main reason all this layering happens together is that the extra layers, other than the original Pit, ALL happened because of Karda Nui. It was Karda Nui that would blast whatever land was above it up. And this energy took VN up which caused Mahri Nui.I suspect all this was also why the GBs chose to put the Ignika there. I think by that time they had a predictive destiny system going well enough to realize its power would be important, to do something LIKE my above theories. Why?Because if the land blasted up by the Karda Nui overload (should such an overload happen) wasn't transformed in some way, it should turn into a bazillion boulders, bounce off the ceiling, rain down on the continent (whether NC or SC), and kill a bunch of people.Anyways, because all this layering is related to Karda Nui, it wouldn't matter whether it was the SC or the NC it was under.Still, I agree they should have used the NC. At the very least it would avoid unfortunate jokes lol. And seem more like a heart and less like a stomach.The hole VN ripped in the southern continent's ceiling is definately not right at the Pit in case that isn't clear. VN did not directly destroy the Pit, though it somehow ended up right above it. We know this because when it was made to "magnetically" fly back inside, it moved somewhat sideways from its position. And the old Pit could still be visited.I don't understand why you said the waterfall never flooded anything. As you said, it did -- creating the swamp. It was just a small amount of water, and a huge dome down there (this is mainly why Voya Nui absolutely HAS to be very tiny).About the mutagen, we can definately rule out that Aqua Magna's water was mutagenic. That was a big misconception at the time, but it's the same water surrounding MNI, and that was obviously not mutagenic. Whatever caused the mutagen was local to that area.Not sure if this was just your choice of words, but Voya Nui does not punch a hole through Karda Nui's ceiling. It WAS the part of Karda Nui's ceiling, which was blasted upwards. So the energy storm overload (at least, I think that's what it was) is what punched that hole, and then indirectly the other hole too -- it acted like the explosion in a gun barrel, turning VN into the bullet that flew up through the SC's ceiling.Mahri Nui does NOT sink back into the robot. Not ever. Even when VN returns in 2007, Mahri Nui does not go back. (It is instead smashed to pieces by VN.) Your confusion here appears to have resulted from your earlier mistake in thinking the Pit was under the continent. Mahri Nui was in the Aqua Magna surface ocean. :)Islands can float if they are either made of pumice (protopumice in this case) or if they have a lot of air-filled caves. Destral also floats, incidently. My theory on Destral has always been air-filled caves which the Brotherhood sealed, a scenario I have used in fanfics. Voya Nui could be the same as well, though sealing is less plausible by any of the three big causes, Ignika, Order, or GBs. It's hard to imagine how it could be pumice, or it would be even more brittle. Hence my living island theory.Still more evidence for the living theory or something close is that the newly formed volcanic rock Mahri Nui is on does sink. This tells me the volcano is eating out the island's floatable mass and turning it into normal lava, which is for the most part forming normal (though protodermic) lava rock, and no pumice. Whether VN is of actual protopumic or a cellularish version, the only thing that makes pumice float is air bubbles. Melt pumice and let it reform and it will be just as sinkable as normal rock (just much smaller than it was), because while liquid the air bubbles float to the top and escape.Voya Nui was clearly stated to have been directed in its return, I forget by what but I think it was that magical repairing staff thingy the Order had. That tool, if I remember correctly, was basically the most important for maintenance of the robot.This works especially well under my protoclay theory. Voya Nui and everything else involved here is protodermis, except the water itself. If all its physics, and even its physical shapes, are caused by computer code in nanite-like particles, then this staff would seem to be a resetter for physical location code. Any protodermis of land inside the domes, of the domes themselves, and of the rest of the robot, could be commanded to telekinetically move itself back into position.Incidently, this staff may help explain the construction of the robot and how exactly the Matoran could help, when you'd think they wouldn't be able to do much, stuck on little sideways islands in a sea, amounting to a tiny percentage of the overall mass of the finished robot. Perhaps this staff, and/or weaker ones like it, were used to telekinetically guide pieces into position.If so it would explain the use of domes. They could have just made tunnels everywhere, with dirt and plants and artificial lights everywhere, but that would be less efficient. The good thing about it would be the Matoran could physically reach everything that needed repaired. Downside; they'd all understand what they were helping to build and later maintain. But if their behavior somehow indirectly powered things like that staff (somehow), they were kept on islands in the domes, and maybe even if they were somewhat aware of what they were doing, they would not need to understand the nature of the universe they were helping build around themselves.I've also always been confused about how VN smashed MN, since VN moved diagonally down. I've always just chalked it up to that it first sank downwards, and then the magneticish power kicked in and it turned sideways right at the last second before slamming into the robot's torso, but too late to miss Mahri Nui.But your confusion is much greater than mine because you are under the impression the Pit is miles upon miles down from where it really is; see above.Seriously, where did you get the idea the Pit was below the continent? Everything in the story is crystal clear this is not the case. If some reference source out there is creating this very wrong misconception I'd really like to know, especially if it's one I'm in charge of... I would go so far as to urge you to edit a correction into your post, in place of where you first said it, because people reading this are likely to read about that far and then skim the rest and miss the corrections later. Let's avoid spreading the misconception, saves headaches later lol.Perhaps what got you confused was images of Matoro fallig through a hole and through the waterfall? Showing just one hole? Yet as you accurately said earlier, the waterfall goes down through two holes. Matoro fell first through the ceiling above the continent, then through the continent to Karda Nui's dome. Clear?Only reason that image showed one hole is that there would be no way to see through the waterfall up to the higher hole.The flooding stops for the same reason VN started moving so oddly -- that magical staff thingy was said to cause the "rock" to reshape itself into its former position. So VN moved down through the torso "skin" to the continent, and the "rocks" it had blasted aside to punch the hole in the "skin" were also moved back to where they had been. This is the power of that staff. Of course, now we know it was apparently not rock but metal; the giant robot. But the reforming of this metal plugs the higher hole, so the waterfall stops entirely.Another thing not made clear is how the Matoran survived the impace of a free-falling island hitting the continent, but again, I would chalk it up to the power of the staff. Probably it 'magnetically' made the island fall a lot slower than it naturally would have.Bohrok had hives both in the face and under Metru Nui.The Fohrok were created by the Brotherhood, not really sure why, maybe sometime after Mutran stared into Tren Krom's crazifying eyes and learned the secrets of the universe....... or maybe Brotherhood agents/Makuta already knew a lot about them, or just happened to see one... or maybe helped invent them... I dunno, but the Fohrok were simply inspired by them and had no direct relation. :)Oh, of course they're much older than the Great Cataclysm! Did something give you the idea they were somehow a new thing?Their purpose is to clear the camouflage whenever it is activated, and presumably have been used to clear Mata Nui Island (though it wasn't called that until its final incarnation) every time it is recreated. Or rather (as I said in another topic recently) to weaken and loosen it so the robot can easily push through it without getting too damaged. This was part of the original purpose of the giant robot so was built into the system from the start (although it seems necessary that there were far fewer Bohrok back then as more keep being made from Av-Matoran... unless those were just to replace the ones turned into Boxor...).Toa canisters apparently move intangibly through anything, and "skyhop" to a location quickly. Or rather to water near a location so they land safely after turning tangible again. It's basically super-fast, super-safe transportation to anywhere.Except for the little inconvenient fact that those six malfunctioned after landing in the water lol...I still dunno why the canisters malfunctioned, though maybe Makuta tampered with them. As for landing on the surface, I again appeal probably to destiny, or maybe to sheer luck. Destiny systems like what I have theorized before would realize the Matoran needed help moving back down to Metru Nui, and that was the first step, basically, in awakening Mata Nui.I would just blame the whole thing on destiny except that I can't imagine why destiny would make them float there for a thousand years until Takua found that beacon. I suspect Makuta tampered only with the water guidance system, removing the equivalent of the beacon's function, but everything else was done by destiny.It also doesn't seem plausible to me that it was just a malfunction since it happened the same way to all six. Unless of course it was a design flaw.I greatly advise AGAINST trying to determine math when it comes to fictional universes like tihs. You're dealing with particles that are totally fictional, with fictional physics, and exact sizes and amounts are so easy to mess up anyways, and then paint into corners. It's better to leave those things to the imagination and just give the general idea. But as I said it was clearly a LOT less water than the map of the MU implies when it shows Voya Nui being so huge (and oddly stretched out sideways).Another thing to keep in mind is that we have absolutely zero evidence that any air from the MU bubbled up through the hole. We see no bubbles ever (as far as I know), and we have never heard of a region of bubbles on the surface. I take this also as strong evidence of the airfield theory. This would likely also slow down the flow of water too by a totally unmeasurable amount as the airfield is fictional and only theoretical anyways.TBOC -- The Turaga also knew more about Bohrok because, I think it was they either encountered a nest under Mata Nui, and/or Vakama had a vision. Something like that.Bulik -- I don't think your top-heavy point works, because Karda Nui is an open space, thus weighs less than the filled space under the NC.That's a good point about air trapped in buildings as Mahri Nui sank. I should have thought of that. Still doesn't explain how they then got to the airweed -- maybe they just saw it in the distance and maybe one took a gamble and held his breath long enough to get there and bring back some.Munty -- Kini-Nui was apparently a retractable feature roughly at the nose area, perhaps a sensor device or something in addition to the main function, but that main function was simply to have a doorway down into the robot available on the MNI, in case the Toa Mata would have to go that way. That's why that passageway down to the dome featured a built-in doorway too; it had a GB-intended door of sorts at both ends.As for how much of MNI is camouflage, I'd refer you to the standing up video; the thickness shown there is probably the bedrock and compacted earth of the island, and is all camouflage obviously, while the face shown coming up from beneath is the robot. Assume the Bohrok probably swept a good deal of earth, along with plants, trees (and their roots) into the sea before this, too, as there's no green shown on the island anymore, and most of the rest of the work simply broke the earth and rock up so the robot wouldn't get damaged as it pushed up through it.The Great Barrier has never been mentioned in reference to Voya Nui as far as I know; it's what the Metru Nui Matoran labeled the lower edge of the dome wall, where it met the water. They call it this because although most of the dome has a sky illusion projected under it, the illusion doesn't reach all the way down to the water, so it seems like a rock wall that just fades away into sky.The gates in the barrier were closeable doorways (and apparently lockable from the Metru Nui side) in the tunnels between the Metru dome and the "dome" of the Northern Continent, Xia, and Zakaz. There's a lot of confusion still on just how many gates/tunnels there were. It could be there was just one tunnel in the neck to the left that had a blockade that was basically a double-door -- this could be called "gates" if you stretch the limit. And Karzahni's route would be to the right and also in the neck.Personally, I suspect only the Karzahni route goes due south through the neck, or rather the base of the head to a tunnel through the neck. I think in the depictions of the giant robot there are two big piston things to the right and left of the neck (if memory serves). I suspect these each house one tunnel between Metru and NC, thus two tunnels, and two "gates".As far as I know, the term "gates" never refers to the eyes. There are eyelids that could close up there, though, and apparently one did in LoMN (why only one has been unclear... and the movie seemed to show them BOTH closing so that was probably an error -- if they were both closed the airships could not have gotten through).[EDIT: One was closed probably in the last moments before Mata Nui fell unconscious as he realized one eye was underwater. Briefly he probably used water elemental power to prevent it from coming through, and then the lid covered it. Forgot. ]Yes, the river between Mata Nui and Metru Nui was a leak of non-proto (normal) surface water slowly flowing down through gaps and stuff into the protodermic sea inside. It was slowly turning the Silver Sea into a mixture, until the Toa Metru sealed it. Not enough water got down there in that time to be a problem.Incidently, though, this does raise major questions about Mavrah, as I thought he went to that one cave long ago, but now in retrospect we know there couldn't have been water yet there. Perhaps he had another hideout prior to the GC and moved there recently.You raise a good point about the leg islands being dangerous, but I don't think that explanation works. Far more likely is that the GBs wanted to discourage people from reaching the feet hatches whenever the robot stood on a place and getting loose on alien worlds.One thing you're not considering about Karda Nui is that the spot in the south in question is ONLY where the energy storm overload broke through (or... some say it was the volcano but that doesn't make sense to me... but that's not my point here). Since Karda Nui the "dome" is so huge (and all sand, no sea), it's quite possible it's a basement level to the entire torso, NOT just under the SC, but also the NC, etc.As far as I know there's no canon confirmation of this but it would answer these questions of "why not under the NC?"From your further comments it appears your reasoning on the location of the Pit is based only on the idea that it should be at the bottom of something -- but you forget that it IS at the bottom of the surface ocean. That's probably why the name was chosen for the story, although canonically the original one is admittedly at an odd place at the top of everything when the robot is in space, etc. But really, it doesn't matter where the Pit is for its name. It's likely named that because it's a prison for the worst of the worst.Anyways, your reasoning on that really should have been overrided by the clear depictions of it as being in the surface ocean. But now you know so okay.Metru Nui does NOT float. The only islands that float are Voya Nui and Destral, and neither originally floated but were made to float by means unknown.Not sure what you mean that islands being in domes means not connected to anything.Bulik -- The airships did not go the same way as the boat (well, the floating walking vehicle lol). There were at least three routes, and four counting the one the GBs intended from MOL. If memory serves (I'm probably messing up some of these details), the basic timeline is like this:1) Toa Metru flee on the walker with five Matoran capsules, fight Makuta and win, Lhikan dies, they name the walker the Lhikan in honor of him. Tie the capsules to it and find a crack with a river in it. Follow this up winding tunnels, gradually gaining height. The whole Mavrah incident took place in a lake-cavern along this route. Then Vahki chased them up the river as they fled this area (or was it the prototypes of the Vahki... I don't remember... point is, they were being chased). Onewa sealed the tunnel so the Vahki couldn't get to Mata Nui. This stopped the river and removed that passage as an option.2) After some preparation and exploring of what they now called Mata Nui, they found another tunnel back down, this one a walking route without a river, again through winding tunnels, encountered various threats such as the Rahi Nui. I thiiiink a lot of Rahi from Metru Nui were fleeing up onto Mata Nui by this route but I might be wrong. Encounter the prototype Morbuzahk there, get past it, and make the Lhikan II to cross the silver sea to Metru Nui.Now they do all the Visorak/Hordika stuff. And make airships.3) Now that they can fly, they load up the rest of the Matoran and fly straight up over Metru Nui to the one "eye" or sun-hole that is open above. Probably in their previous exploration they had realized solid objects could pass through this, though I don't think it was mentioned. They land the airships on the island and rebuild them into various things they needed for survival. Kanohi hidden, Matoran awoken, Toa Metru Turaga-ized, etc. and then a year later (from Makuta's Time Trap deal) the Rahi attack and terrorize for 999 years.In 2001 plot the Toa Nuva open up the Kini Nui route to the Mangaia, following yet another winding tunnel down to there. They are even with the Silver Sea and just feet away from it, but don't realize it at the time. They defeat Makuta and return to the surface.4) In 2003 Takanuva flies down this same tunnel, defeats Makuta, and the door is opened (and smashed to pieces) so a new way is made to the Silver Sea. The Turaga take advantage of the time of peace to tell their accounts of history and explain what Metru Nui is, while the Matoran build lightweight boats. Then everybody carries the boats down the walking route through these tunnels to the Silver Sea, and uses them to cross to Metru Nui.The End. :)Obviously it's very understandable why all of this is confusing. The short answer that should remove the need to be confused, if you're okay with not understanding all the details is "they used a bunch of different routes".Note that the only one of these routes big enough for the massive airships was the sun-hole.I doubt the tunnels circle the dome, probably more like zigzag down one side of it.Anyways, what I think somebody/we/I should do is find a picture of the giant robot facing directly forward towards the "camera" or as close as we can get, and overlay blue circles where the domes would reasonably fit, then shrink each island on Greg's map so they'd fit well within the circles, overlaying them on the circles. And shrink the VN part by a lot so it's more like a tiny dot on the continent. That way we'd get a map that makes a lot more plot sense.And then a side-view version to clear up misconceptions about what's above and below what. Edited February 24, 2012 by bonesiii Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Wow Bonesii, great to have you here I'm away from home at the moment so I won't go over all that's been said in the last few posts but I will try to vindicate myself for the positioning of the Pit in my earlier posts. Most of my info comes from the Wikia.com page and I can see right away what made me think the way I do.Probably the bit that got me here is the location comment which says the following;Old Pit: In the seas beneath Voya NuiBut of course it means when Voya Nui was an island, not when it was part of the continent!In my defence, it doesn't help that the Voya Nui page says the following for it's location;Center of the Southern ContinentThing is though it still doesn't make much sense with so little information so someone could do with expanding the wiki on it. Remember there have been prisoners in the Pit since the League of Six Kingdoms which was tens of thousands of years before the GC. Where is it said and shown that it's on the outside of the robot? It makes a lot more sense so I'm not questioning it but I've not come across that information at all up to now so it needs to be better explained in the wikis!The oddest thing to me is that there were inner and outer pits, the inner one being basically a big empty cave, outer being the mutagenic sea. That's why it never occured to me that the thing was outside the body in the Aqua Magna sea, I already knew that it had water surrounding it and that this flooded the inner pit during the GC. Under water inside the MU is the same as under water outside it without extra information and I haven't seen any yet so I just assumed.I still can't help but think it's completely illogical to build this place outside of the body mind you. The robot was built to go and land on planets and observe in secrecy. The camoflage system will basically build land on top of anything above sealevel (I've been assuming that it's only above, does it cover whats below as well or does that stay robot?) so that means the pit will be buried with land on any planets with shallow or no oceans. If the entire robot is camo'd then it would be constantly buried and the Barraki couldn't have ever escaped because immediately following the crash which cracked the pit open it would've been covered in bedrock!It also seems stupid to have it on the outside of the robot when you consider the fact that the robot is basically a gigantic space-faring colony. Call me what you will but personally if I was flying through space with a giant robot I'd want to be INSIDE it when we passed through ice rings and asteroid fields!Anyway, yeah that's my thoughts Personally I think it would be better for the story if it WAS inside the body under one of the major continents but wanting it won't make it happen! I do think that having it situated on the outside of the robot is absolutely obsurd but hey, if it's canon it's canon :(Not going to write any more now as I'm shattered and going to bed! Thanks for the responses and I'll respond more fully when I'm back home! TNB : hit the jackpot on another topic. Voya Nui is listed as 'slightly smaller than Metru Nui' which makes everything a lot more favourable! Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.B.O.C Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Just response to what I've seen:The reason i remember for Voya Nui rocketing through the robot was because of how Mata Nui crashed. He landed (and rather hard, for the matter) on his back, which caused the Great Cataclysm (i.e. giant earthquake that damaged most of the known Matoran Universe) I think that the tremendous force from him hitting Aqua Magna ripped Voya Nui loose, and possibly combined with an energy surge from Karda Nui, threw Voya Nui with such force it ripped through the exterior of the robot.Voya Nui - Bonesiii said a lot about pumice, protopumice, and air-filled caves helping Voya Nui float. I'm fairly sure that it would have been caves, as we know of the Nui Caves under Voya Nui that would have given potential for that, and not to mention the caves for the Ignika. The theory he gave there for Voya Nui not being destroyed is the only thing about that which makes sense at all.Mahri Nui - When Voya Nui went back into the matoran universe, it spiraled down (I believe this was shown in the comics) and fit perfectly through the hole, smashing Mahri Nui in the process. Also, Voya Nui was almost immediately anchored to the ground by The Cord (lava leaking from Voya Nui, cooling instantly in the water, holding Voya Nui. Mahri Nui forming would fit into here because it formed in the "u" shaped gap on the island, settling right beneath The Cord (maybe I'll make a picture later for this)I'll try to add more later when I have more time, though, just a few thoughts here. Quote My Brickshelf, please don't copy!... ...Looking for shiny Regirock, Articuno, and Virizion!(Can trade most any legendary for them!)My 3DS friend list is full, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Yeah, the Pit's oddness did not occur to us in 2007 because we didn't yet know about the giant robot. At the time it seemed perfectly natural for it to just be at the bottom of the ocean.Probably the thinking is that having it be basically in the skin of the robot made it hard for the prisoners to get to the other places inside the MU. A prison on or under any land in there would be closer to the people they were trying to keep the prisoners away from.Also, it appears the camouflage only worked over the face, so either Mata Nui would submerge in an ocean like he did on Aqua Magna, or if there was no ocean he would not make camouflage, instead staying cloaked. Some assumptions go into there, but it does seem logical as a theory.Thus, it would likewise be difficult under normal circumstances for the prisoners to escape onto worlds Mata Nui visited; he would either remain standing up, not land at all, or land so that the Pit is deep underwater. BTW, the thing that made it clearest in the story that it was at the bottom of the sea was that a Mahritoran swam up to Voya Nui and talked to the Inika before dying; this would not have been possible if he was at the bottom of a waterfall. Also at no time in the move from VN to MahriN did they go down a waterfall; we did not encounter the waterfall until the end of 2007 when Matoro swam ahead of VN and went down the waterfall before it. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 It also seems stupid to have it on the outside of the robot when you consider the fact that the robot is basically a gigantic space-faring colony. Call me what you will but personally if I was flying through space with a giant robot I'd want to be INSIDE it when we passed through ice rings and asteroid fields!Anyway, yeah that's my thoughts Personally I think it would be better for the story if it WAS inside the body under one of the major continents but wanting it won't make it happen! I do think that having it situated on the outside of the robot is absolutely obsurd but hey, if it's canon it's canon. How about this? This is how I picture the pit to be (before the Great Cataclysm):After the Great Cataclysm:Better?Now, on to the good stuff: (I apologize in advance for the wacky, out of scale drawings)On Mata Nui:The airships were taken up through one of the eyes. This is mainly how we know the eyes can't be covered with anything like glass, hence my forcefield theory.Huh?Note that the only one of these routes big enough for the massive airships was the sun-hole.According the “robot standing up” video, both of Mata Nui’s eyes are beneath the Mata Nui Island. Further, if one of Mata Nui’s eyes was above the water and open, don’t you think we would have seen it before? If the Toa Metru had seen it and used it, and could have seen it from above, don’t you think that might have slightly clued them in (hey, this is a Giant Robot?) Plus flying into the sun is not exactly all that smart.Also, Metru Nui did not black out or go dark when the robot left a planet. That means that there was some internal lighting system. There is a reference to “one sun showing in the heavens” in Challenge of the Hordika as opposed to two, but that’s likely internal damage to that system due to the crash. Those “suns” in Metru Nui are too small to be giant robot eyes, and they rise and set; they are suns. There may not even be an opening there at all.I mean, if it is canon, it’s canon, but it doesn’t make any sense to me.So how do I explain the airships? Remember the balcony scene from MoL? I would theorize that the giant door that was closed at the end of Mask of Light was open at the end of Web of Shadows. I suspect that that area was a natural cave depression near the top of Mata Nui’s head; when Makuta moved in he didn’t want to rattle everyone too much yet, so he just used the tunnels that already came off it that area, and/or made his minions dig them. (Maybe said tunnels were some sort of airflow stabilizer or something)The Toa Metru did not encounter this area because they took a tunnel that went below and around Mangaia (that area in MoL). I would argue it is below because the tunnel begins on the edge of that island and the EP pool down there is sourced by dripping from the ceiling, indicating that it (likely) is below the EP pool in MoL. The Bohrok canisters transcend both levels, but we don’t see them in MoL because they are gone. Here’s a picture:Anyway, there wasn’t much point of Makuta sealing off that area and closing that giant door while the Matoran were on Mata Nui; it just would have rattled the inhabitants of the island that he was trying to take over. It was sort of a sneak attack with the impersonation of Dume and all that, so no point in drawing unnecessary attention to what was an ordinary rock depression and would likely have been explored by adventurous Matoran in the past and found to be nothing important.After the Matoran moved to Mata Nui, however, Makuta sealed off the passage through his lair with the Giant Door and the doors Taka ran his Ussanui into. He didn’t want the Matoran to return to Metru Nui – or at least, he needed to appear that way. Hence all the doors and blockages.(and he probably did not want other beings inside the robot to have easy access to his lair, either, now that he had been creamed and had lost his reputation)Thus, the Metru would simply drive the airships through the hole the Ussanui went through. It’s not like they are human airplanes with wings, and that tunnel isn’t tiny, much bigger than the Ussanui. The Metru would have found said tunnel when searching Mata Nui island in Maze of Shadows, but it would be too steep for them to use. Then, when they explored the bottom in Web of the Visorak, they saw the hole and put two and two together.On Voya Nui:Here’s what I think the area looked like when Voya Nui was gone…As you can see, core hole does not equal island area. If this contingency point is true (and I don’t see why not) then Voya Nui makes sense. This hypothetical core breech would be smack below Mount Valmai. I propose that that particular volcano absorbed the energy of the core energy storm below it, preventing it from expanding the rest of the robot and destroying the rock above. It channels the energy into the rock as magma – volcanic eruptions. It naturally absorbs energy from the immediate environment; in its natural location it would be the core, but the volcano would also absorb energy in its location up in the sea as well, hence the ice.If the core energy overload is directly beneath the volcano, then the area beneath the volcano would be shot up first, ripping out the northern peninsula area and the rock that would become the cord. This also means that the volcano would hit the ceiling first. (being the tallest thing around) Here’s another (bad) drawing:(Yes, I know it is out of scale)The volcano would punch the hole in the ceiling, which was already being rattled by an earthquake. The island itself would never touch the ceiling; deaths would be caused by falling debris. As for how the Matoran survived the resulting flood, I would go with the air-trapped-in-structures idea, which would also partially explain why the island made it to the surface in the first place (along with air pockets and sheer force).On the cord:Rock doesn’t divide neatly, so I imagine that a string or strings of rock were ripped out. The real world properties of rock don’t support this too well (rock breaks, it doesn’t form strings) but maybe it’s just a bunch of fragments. The Voya Nui island however, would only logically float for a few seconds, so I imagine it as a string. It’s proto-rock! :)But seriously, gravity pushing down on the island would effectively “glue” the cord to the ocean floor, like this:There is some evidence for the “living island” theory, like the fact the Mask of Life was there, a passage in Dark Destiny or Island of Doom where Valmai is referred to as having “thoughts”, the fact that the volcano erupted just as the Piraka were about to toss the Toa Nuva in, and that the island went home the way it came gently enough. However, I could chalk all that up to symbolism, random chance, and the Staff of Artahka, so it is open to interpretation, which is how I like it.(Sorry for the length, and the bad drawings) Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.B.O.C Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) [long quote removed -bones]What you said about Mount. Valami makes sense, it would explain a bit why the island didn't break up going through the Robot.EDIT: Oh sorry! I didn't realize it was a huge quote, sorry again! Edited February 27, 2012 by T.B.O.C Quote My Brickshelf, please don't copy!... ...Looking for shiny Regirock, Articuno, and Virizion!(Can trade most any legendary for them!)My 3DS friend list is full, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BULiK Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 ^ @ ABOVE: Please destroy the huge quote.@ fisher. thank you for basically explaining most of what I tried to do, but better than I ever could , except I never thought of the gravity playing a part ing th already formed core; that's brilliant Quote Visit www.BZPRPG.com to view my project of archiving BZPower's RPGs, and also access the BZPower Roleplaying Wiki BZPRPG Profiles - Ghosts Of Bara Magna Profiles Exo-Force RPG Profiles - Six Kingdoms: Apocalypse (Knichou, Berys, Arnex, The Taku, Exuze) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 fishers, Greg confirmed that one eye (the one that stayed open) was in Ko-Wahi and was later covered up by ice. And again, he also confirmed they flew the airships through the sunhole. I don't see why they would think it was an eye; we knew for years what they knew, that there was a hole there, and most of us didn't realize it was an eye either. Only as we got hints about the giant robot in 2008 and some people posted it as a theory did we suspect.I agree it seems odd they flew up towards what they thought was the sun, but that's why I theorize that while exploring Mata Nui they saw the hole from above. We know it was uncovered at the time, so it's possible, though as far as I know it's never been confirmed. But even if they didn't, they at least knew the sky had to be an illusion and that there was really an island and another ocean up there, so they may have simply decided to fly closer and investigate.The size thing is a good point but again, this is why I keep saying you should take all canon size statements and depictions with salt (and that they're better left unstated and implied). With a little adjustment it works. :)Keep in mind that flying big, fragile aircraft through narrow tunnels, esp. with passengers, is very dangerous. One mistake and you can do major damage. It's far safer to fly once through one massive hole. And there's good reason from MOL to see that tunnel as far too small for airships; the Ussanui is a one-person craft, but they were huge.I don't remember the details clearly enough on the EP pool point, so I won't comment on that, except to say that it's confirmed Makuta was trying to prevent them from returning.I agree the hole below VN in SC is probably smaller. I don't think the volcano hitting first idea works, because it wasn't that tall compared to the island. More likely to me is that the island hit with the curve side first, the two 'tails' hanging down, minimizing the size of the hole it punched through.Are you saying basically the cord was there almost from the get-go, drawn up as VN blasted upward? It's a neat idea but I'm pretty sure Greg confirmed the cord only formed a long time later after MahriN fell off, from the same lava flow that earlier created MahriN.Oh, and I agree with your Pit placement diagrams. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Lots more excellent stuff here today! One of the things that made me go 'ahhhhh' today was the awesome map of the hole left behind by Voya Nui. There is even official artwork of VN that shows it as conical below sealevel so it actually makes perfect sense. Also the idea that the core was directly beneath the volcano not only helps explain why it began erupting so much after TGC but also why it was there at all! Mount Valami is basically a giant cooling tower for the centre of the matoran universe! When the core overloaded and the storm first surged and then ceased, massive amounts of energy would've been trying to force their way out of the volcano in whatever form they usually did (presumably steam of some kind as there's no canon record of eruptions prior to TGC) This time though the sheer amount of energy looking to escape from the core was just too much and it was bottlenecked in the volcano, simple solution? Move the volano! It's like a fuse in an electrical system and TGC brought on a massive surge in that particular circuit. The volcano hitting the robot's skin first could explain how the island made it out intact but I'd put money on a MASSIVE erruption before the land was torn away from the continent. After all, it takes a lot of pressure to dislodge a small island... This eruption has to be big enough to reach (or at least significantly weaken) the outer hull of the robot, and then the passage of the island simply finishes the job. Like throwing a plastic cup through an already shattered window ;)I'm home now anyway but as I said yesterday, I MAY respond to all of the above tonight. I decided against it so it'll be tomorrow at the earliest Thanks for all the awesome posts. Who are the official keepers of the Bionicle Wikis? (I know there are at least two of them) If we manage to explain much more of this wierdness it would be nice to try and make it official Fanon ;)EDIT : was ninja'd by bonesii Maybe the volcano used to be taller but was smashed to pieces when it hit the robot? Plus my above suggestions. We'd never know either way if the volcano came back shorter than it was before TGC but it's said in many places that when VN returned to the southern continent it remained the perfect size and shape. Even in a weakened state I'd suggest that any other part of the island hitting first would cause some serious collateral damage!If Greg said they used the eye then I guess that answers that! IT doesn't get more canon than the writer after all. And knowing it's official makes it better, even if there are better Fanon ideas out there, as you can't argue with it, just explain it away and move on :DI forgot to mention the Pit diagrams, I agree, should definitely have the wiki updated on that.I like the idea of the cord forming on the way up from all this new molten protodermis still spewing from the volcano. Especially if anyone can give any support to the eruption prior to blast off. The energy from the core would still be reacting inside the mountain as it continues to attempt to disperse it all. Who's to say it isn't literally creating protodermis behind it and rocketing up as it goes. It cools quickly underwater and forms the cord. Once VN is on the surface the volcano would back up and the only way out is up. Further eruptions create Mahri Nui until all the energy from the core is dissipated and only a trickle is left as we see on the official VN maps (in comics and such) Then when MN drops off it would follow the same path down as VN followed up staying close to the cord and landing near the pit. Cord breaks, Voya Nui falls towards the pit and the precariously placed MN. MN would only need clipping to send it tumbling down to a crushing fate and the Mask of Life wouldn't be around to save anyone now either. Works for me I think but again if Greg said no then we may be in trouble with this Edited February 26, 2012 by Munty Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 The volcano hitting the robot's skin first could explain how the island made it out intact but I'd put money on a MASSIVE erruption before the land was torn away from the continent. After all, it takes a lot of pressure to dislodge a small island... This eruption has to be big enough to reach (or at least significantly weaken) the outer hull of the robot, and then the passage of the island simply finishes the job. Like throwing a plastic cup through an already shattered window Erm...I would think that the force involved there would be too much for the volcano to handle, causing it to transmit the force to the island and send it sky high. No eruption of the volcano was likely involved, and even if there was it would not shoot high enough to reach the ceiling. If we manage to explain much more of this wierdness it would be nice to try and make it official Fanon That's an oxymoron. We're still waiting for Greg to magically reappear. fishers, Greg confirmed that one eye (the one that stayed open) was in Ko-Wahi and was later covered up by ice. And again, he also confirmed they flew the airships through the sunhole. I don't see why they would think it was an eye; we knew for years what they knew, that there was a hole there, and most of us didn't realize it was an eye either. Only as we got hints about the giant robot in 2008 and some people posted it as a theory did we suspect.I agree it seems odd they flew up towards what they thought was the sun, but that's why I theorize that while exploring Mata Nui they saw the hole from above. We know it was uncovered at the time, so it's possible, though as far as I know it's never been confirmed. But even if they didn't, they at least knew the sky had to be an illusion and that there was really an island and another ocean up there, so they may have simply decided to fly closer and investigate.And that's what I get for not being here in 2001. Thanks for the clarification.I don't remember the details clearly enough on the EP pool point, so I won't comment on that, except to say that it's confirmed Makuta was trying to prevent them from returning.I agree the hole below VN in SC is probably smaller. I don't think the volcano hitting first idea works, because it wasn't that tall compared to the island. More likely to me is that the island hit with the curve side first, the two 'tails' hanging down, minimizing the size of the hole it punched through.Are you saying basically the cord was there almost from the get-go, drawn up as VN blasted upward? It's a neat idea but I'm pretty sure Greg confirmed the cord only formed a long time later after MahriN fell off, from the same lava flow that earlier created MahriN.Oh, and I agree with your Pit placement diagrams. The EP pool idea was trying to justify my placement of the tunnels in the book Maze of Shadows. That drawing I made of that is bad anyway; said tunnel was major league longer and more wind-y and stuff. I would have to read the book again to get a more accurate map; I was trying to address the original poster's question about the tunnels. Sorry if I got too extreme.The problem with the cord arriving later, in my book, is that Voya wouldn't naturally float (too dense. Well, yes it could, but then why would the island sink when the cord was taken out? If all the foregoing theorems are true, the island would have less mass than when it first broke off, making it float more, not less (not to mention the ice ring; ice floats). I guess the stock answer for that is "blame the Staff of Artahka." Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Neat idea about the eruption blasting a hole before the island went up (if I read that right). I suppose the canon statements could plausibly be reinterpreted as that for the most part, but I think some cannot, which say it was the collision that did it. And it's probably beyond the volcano's ability.Another thing that might help now is that we apparently know it was metal, not stone, it went through. There is much evidence from things like tornados and hurricanes that at high speeds things that are normally brittle can pass through metal (which bends) with fairly little damage. This doesn't help survival on it, but I think it's safe to say they were in caves at the time, though uncertain why they would be.FTR, only Greg determines canon, and also, I believe you're only allowed to mention BS01 here as other wikis don't fit our advertising restrictions. The (currently only archived) Bionicle Reference Center on BZP I run and it is partnered with BS01 as well. :)Good point that the volcano could have been taller in the past. That could work with either/any angle of impact, though, especially the curve-side first I suspect. But if one of the turned-alive or GB-weird-physics theories is right it wouldn't necessarily matter.Regardless of the size of the volcano, though, I think curve-side first makes a lot of sense both in that it would minimize the damage, and that aerodynamically the 'tails' would probably naturally be pushed downwards by air resistance anyways. And the conical underside is narrowed in that direction, so it would be something like a knife cutting through.And again, there are many ways the island could float, the easiest being sealed tunnels, and we do know there are abundant tunnels in VN. Who sealed them is unclear if so, but the three options of Order/Ignika/GBs (as prep) could all work. Or possibly none of the tunnels reached low enough to begin with that they'd open below the island. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) And again, there are many ways the island could float, the easiest being sealed tunnels, and we do know there are abundant tunnels in VN. Who sealed them is unclear if so, but the three options of Order/Ignika/GBs (as prep) could all work. Or possibly none of the tunnels reached low enough to begin with that they'd open below the island.It floated, but when the Mahri cut the cord, it sank. Edited February 26, 2012 by fishers64 Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Did you read my first post here? (Don't blame ya if you didn't, it's crazylong, lol.) But I provided one possible theory for the floating, then sinking; basically a mechanism could have been there for it to float, then the cord was made, then it lost its ability to float, and the cord held it up. Then cut cord, and it starts sinking.It's also possible, admittedly with perhaps some adjustment to canon locations and sizes, to conclude it did not sink at all but it was simply the "magneticish" power of the staff pulling it down. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Did you read my first post here? (Don't blame ya if you didn't, it's crazylong, lol.) But I provided one possible theory for the floating, then sinking; basically a mechanism could have been there for it to float, then the cord was made, then it lost its ability to float, and the cord held it up. Then cut cord, and it starts sinking.It's also possible, admittedly with perhaps some adjustment to canon locations and sizes, to conclude it did not sink at all but it was simply the "magneticish" power of the staff pulling it down.(I read it, but I didn't remember all the details of it.) But why would it lose the ability to float? If anything, it should float more over time, with the formation of the ice ring (ice floats) and the island possibly being hollowed out to feed the volcano. Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well my first theory was that it had been turned alive so the rock was made essentially of cells, that were each made able to float, and that by the time of the Inika it had died or was about to die. And going with the cave theory, etc. then when it sunk, enough caves may have been flooded that it couldn't float anymore, and water could have rushed into the hollowed-out area as it sank. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well my first theory was that it had been turned alive so the rock was made essentially of cells, that were each made able to float, and that by the time of the Inika it had died or was about to die. And going with the cave theory, etc. then when it sunk, enough caves may have been flooded that it couldn't float anymore, and water could have rushed into the hollowed-out area as it sank.*re-reads first post*Okay, so if the island was alive and made of cells, then said cells would gradually die out and collapse due lack of mass, allowing water in when the core snapped? I guess that could work. I'm more inclined to believe that the volcano was a mechanism designed to channel energy from the environment around it (which would have been the core in its natural location), and thus was eating matter out of the island and freezing the edges into an ice ring for want of energy. This would create caves that water would break into and flood. It makes more sense...although some of those chambers must have stayed intact, because they had Matoran in them on the trip back. Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yeah, I think it was said that Toa Hewkii sealed up the caves with Matoran in them, and somehow or another got unsealed once the island was back (probably digging themselves out or something). Otherwise it wouldn't matter what the floating method was; the caves with Matoran in them would have flooded anyways since the island was now underwater. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm more inclined to believe that the volcano was a mechanism designed to channel energy from the environment around it (which would have been the core in its natural location), and thus was eating matter out of the island and freezing the edges into an ice ring for want of energy. This would create caves that water would break into and flood. It makes more sense...although some of those chambers must have stayed intact, because they had Matoran in them on the trip back.I think I'm a fan of the whole cooling tower theory personally. The volcano serves as a natural regulator for all of the energy being thrown about in KArda Nui. If we think about it logically there's no other possible reason that a Volcano would exist on an island (by which I mean the Southern continent Not VN) We know Karda Nui is below this thing which means no bedrock, just another big empty dome. It also explains why a hole was 'ripped' in the Karda Nui dome during TGC. Maybe it wasn't, maybe there was a hole there all the time between the top of Karda Nui and the base of the volcano. You'd certainly be safe in knowing it would never be found! Of course the Mask of Life was said to be under the volcano but again what a perfect place to have it? Noone will ever be able to enter an area where massive amounts of energy are constantly being discharged from below. That means the only way to EVER reach the mask would be to shut down the universe first. Bearing in mind that the whole point of the Mask of Life was to rectify such a situation if it ever occurred doesn't it make perfect sense to place it where it could only be accessed once it already had? Also it's so near to the Codrex there would be no question of 'not making it in time'. The Order knew where it was and the Toa Mata probably should've been extensively trained in the MoL contingency plan before their long stasis. The 1,000 years on the surface took a heavy toll on most of their memories though and with VN on the surface noone acted quickly enough to prevent Mata Nui's death.Sounds good to me Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 That makes a ton of sense. One possible problem is that it might not be able to run indefinitately if it must eat out rock to run. I suppose there are various ways it could recycle its own product rock, though. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Again though I wonder if the consumption of rock was never intentional. It was never meant to 'errupt' under normal circumstances after all as this theory suggests it wasn't really a volcano at all. I would imagine that it was a very well balanced system and that Mount Valami was perfectly designed to handle the normal power output of the core. When it gets ramped up though who knows what happens? Especially when it actually becomes physically seperated from the environment it was designed for. In fact here's a nice theory that may solve that problem... The MU 'seas' were all protodermis yes? There have also been many discussions about proto rock, protoclay, protopumice, and who only knows what else. So how about if the 'volcano' usually makes use of the protodermis 'sea' of the matoran universe to help dissipate and regulate the energy from Karda Nui? We've said many times there were lots of tunels and caves beneath the continent and Voya Nui itself. Presumably then they served as maintenance, cooling and supply tunnels and the need for so many of them during the construction of the great spirit robot would easily explain why Voya Nui was buoyant when it broke off from the mainland! Consider then that a certain percentage of these tunnels supply protodermis to the centre of the 'cooling tower' and this is part of some sort of proto-chemical reaction with the excess energies of Karda Nui which renders both incoming elements harmless and presumable gaseous. The resultant mixture would either form weather formations over the Southern continent or fall as the equivalent of ash on the landscape. Remove the supply of protodermis from the MU sea though and chuck in a whole load of energy from the great cataclysm and you have a facility that can no longer cope with the task it was designed for. It has massive amounts of energy from the core trapped in it's very fabric but there's no longer any protodermis entering the chamber from the MU sea. In order to continu operating, the mountain begins making use of other sources of protodermis from the rocks and soil of the very island itself. It works to some extent, allowing the ecxess energy buildup to be safely (but very slowly) dissipated. Using solid substances rather than a free-flowing liquid as intended changes the chemical reaction though and therefore the 'volcano' actually starts doing what it was never meant to and spews out a whole load of molten protodermis onto the island. This forms Mahri Nui and the cord (in whatever order you like) and the removal of so much material from beneat hthe island soon causes the criss-cross of long forgotten maintenance tunnels to collapse and otherwise flood. When the cord breaks, the island is no longer porous enough to stay afloat for any amount of time so it immediately sinks. Once it settles back into it's original location, the staff of Artakha rebuilds the intricate system of tunnels and allows the mountain to begin functioning correctly again so the erruptions stop.Howzat then?!One thing, what's the canon background of the staff of Artakha because I don't see (based on the little I know about it) how it can be responsible for the 'magnetic' realignment of Voya Nui in the MU. Brutaka was imprisoned by Botar for siding with the Piraka on Voya Nui right? He got sent to the pit immediately as far as I'm aware... But I also read somewhere that he redeemed himself by stealing the staff of Artakha from the Makuta's or some other badguy... How could that be possible in such a short time frame? The whole mask of life saga happened very quickly after all... Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 It makes sense to me. Seems to explain everything as far as I can see.As for how the staff did that, it's probably best to use the word "telekinetic," so that it would work the same basic way as the Kanohi Matatu, just on a larger scale and only with parts of the robot. If my cyberclay theory is right then it may simply send a signal to the molecules of VN and they would project their own energy field which would cause motion.Not sure what you're asking about Brutaka and the staff, but not very familiar with that part of the story so yeah. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Again though I wonder if the consumption of rock was never intentional. It was never meant to 'errupt' under normal circumstances after all as this theory suggests it wasn't really a volcano at all. I would imagine that it was a very well balanced system and that Mount Valami was perfectly designed to handle the normal power output of the core. When it gets ramped up though who knows what happens? Especially when it actually becomes physically seperated from the environment it was designed for. In fact here's a nice theory that may solve that problem... The MU 'seas' were all protodermis yes? There have also been many discussions about proto rock, protoclay, protopumice, and who only knows what else. So how about if the 'volcano' usually makes use of the protodermis 'sea' of the matoran universe to help dissipate and regulate the energy from Karda Nui? We've said many times there were lots of tunels and caves beneath the continent and Voya Nui itself. Presumably then they served as maintenance, cooling and supply tunnels and the need for so many of them during the construction of the great spirit robot would easily explain why Voya Nui was buoyant when it broke off from the mainland! Consider then that a certain percentage of these tunnels supply protodermis to the centre of the 'cooling tower' and this is part of some sort of proto-chemical reaction with the excess energies of Karda Nui which renders both incoming elements harmless and presumable gaseous. The resultant mixture would either form weather formations over the Southern continent or fall as the equivalent of ash on the landscape. Remove the supply of protodermis from the MU sea though and chuck in a whole load of energy from the great cataclysm and you have a facility that can no longer cope with the task it was designed for. It has massive amounts of energy from the core trapped in it's very fabric but there's no longer any protodermis entering the chamber from the MU sea. In order to continu operating, the mountain begins making use of other sources of protodermis from the rocks and soil of the very island itself. It works to some extent, allowing the ecxess energy buildup to be safely (but very slowly) dissipated. Using solid substances rather than a free-flowing liquid as intended changes the chemical reaction though and therefore the 'volcano' actually starts doing what it was never meant to and spews out a whole load of molten protodermis onto the island. This forms Mahri Nui and the cord (in whatever order you like) and the removal of so much material from beneat hthe island soon causes the criss-cross of long forgotten maintenance tunnels to collapse and otherwise flood. When the cord breaks, the island is no longer porous enough to stay afloat for any amount of time so it immediately sinks. Once it settles back into it's original location, the staff of Artakha rebuilds the intricate system of tunnels and allows the mountain to begin functioning correctly again so the erruptions stop.Howzat then?!One thing, what's the canon background of the staff of Artakha because I don't see (based on the little I know about it) how it can be responsible for the 'magnetic' realignment of Voya Nui in the MU. Brutaka was imprisoned by Botar for siding with the Piraka on Voya Nui right? He got sent to the pit immediately as far as I'm aware... But I also read somewhere that he redeemed himself by stealing the staff of Artakha from the Makuta's or some other badguy... How could that be possible in such a short time frame? The whole mask of life saga happened very quickly after all...Either that, or there is a E= mc^2 reaction in said volcano that transmutes Karda energy into hot molten rock. Well, there is always another possibility we haven't thought of, but actually your theory makes better sense. After all, an active volcano would have killed off valuable Matoran. But anyways, yes, that timing is sketchy on the staff. But I'm prettty sure by the time that the island was moving the Order had the staff in its proper place to do the trick. Why? They said so!And when your fellow heroes sever the cord that binds Mahri Nui to Voya Nui, it too will be restroed to where it belongs and the hole it made sealed behind it. This quote is when the Staff is placed in its cradle. Note the future tense, indicating that the staff was placed before the Mahri cut the cord. Edited February 28, 2012 by fishers64 Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munty Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Ok so I'm wiki'ing... Apparently the staff somehow ended up in the Ono-Metru archives around the time just before the whole Mask of Life saga's climax. The Toa Nuva were the ones sent to rescue it but I've no idea when yet (note that I'm writing as I read!) I know the Nuva were trapped on VN by the Piraka and Brutaka before the Inika were able to free them and claim the mask. Then they later ended up in Mistika/Phantoka form inside KArda Nui which was AFTER VN had been returned to it's normal location but before the energy storms had begun again.Bear in mind that the staff could assist in the relocation of VN and rebuilding of Metru Nui and such but it couldn't jump start the core! My guess is that the Nuva searched for the staff immediately after being rescued by the Inika as they must've had it by the time the cord was severed. Anyway the thing WASN'T in the archives when they started looking, having been stolen in a raid by the Dark Hunters 'centuries ago' apparently. The Toa Nuva went to Odina next and then Xia before discovering that Makuta Icarax had taken the staff to Teridax (so clearly before his death in Karda Nui) Teridax was trying to use the staff to repair the Nui stone but Brutaka prevented this and gave the staff to Botar who sent it back to Daxia where it was triggered by either Trinuma or Helryx (though I can't confirm either one of them!)So back to Brutaka quickly... It seems to me that after the trouble up on VN island, Botar transported him to the pit but as it was already breached due to TGC he was never truly 'imprisoned' so essentially he could have left to do something else literally immediately. It WAS Brutaka who captured the Toa Nuva on VN but the details of his reclaiming of the staff is shaky at best.The Toa Nuva, it turns out were actually captured twice on Voya Nui! When they first arrived they were dumped by the volcano by the Piraka with no masks and tools, then they got caught again by Brutaka when they tried to get their masks back! Soon after the second rescue it's revealed that the Mask of Life 'quest' is already over as it's flown into the sea. The Toa Nuva then tell the Inika they're heading back to Metru Nui but later reveal they lied and are actually off to recover the staff of Artakha (as part of a bunch of preparations for waking Mata Nui)Basically they had to release the Bohrok and get the staff but there were a few more rubbish little jobs too. Either way it seems that the Nuva managed to complete all of their tasks (including travelling all the way down one of the robot's legs) in the time it took the Inika/Mahri to follow the Mask of Life down into Karda Nui.Wierd really, timing feels completely off to me. But then the entire Toa Mata/Nuva/Mistika/Phantoka storyline is actually less than a year long so hey I guess the original Toa were just way better than all the other rubbish wannabe's Quote Check out my Bionicle store on Bricklink here!> > > Bionic Bricks < < < Let me know if you can help me find these last few collectibles!Also looking for WILD KRAATA and a VMKK Yo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I think the timing works. I remember that 'blog' story was a 2007 serial, so basically all the wide-ranging tasks the Nuva did prepping Mata Nui's awakening took place while the Mahri and Barraki and company were stealing the Ignika back and forth from each other lol.In retrospect what is really disappointing is that all the Mahri accomplished in all that time, for the most part, was to just waste time failing to hold onto the mask. Made for some fun adrenaliney online videos though lol. But it would have been so much cooler if there had been some interesting new mystery they were exploring at the location, instead of just delaying and then finally going down the waterfall. But yeah, at least the Nuva were using time wisely.In fairness, they did cut the cord, but again they had to delay a while before they safely could, and even though all the delaying before that took little story time, it took a whole year to us. It could have been arranged better. Edited February 28, 2012 by bonesiii Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.B.O.C Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Ok so I'm wiki'ing... Apparently the staff somehow ended up in the Ono-Metru archives around the time just before the whole Mask of Life saga's climax. The Toa Nuva were the ones sent to rescue it but I've no idea when yet (note that I'm writing as I read!) I know the Nuva were trapped on VN by the Piraka and Brutaka before the Inika were able to free them and claim the mask. Then they later ended up in Mistika/Phantoka form inside KArda Nui which was AFTER VN had been returned to it's normal location but before the energy storms had begun again.Bear in mind that the staff could assist in the relocation of VN and rebuilding of Metru Nui and such but it couldn't jump start the core!My guess is that the Nuva searched for the staff immediately after being rescued by the Inika as they must've had it by the time the cord was severed.Anyway the thing WASN'T in the archives when they started looking, having been stolen in a raid by the Dark Hunters 'centuries ago' apparently. The Toa Nuva went to Odina next and then Xia before discovering that Makuta Icarax had taken the staff to Teridax (so clearly before his death in Karda Nui) Teridax was trying to use the staff to repair the Nui stone but Brutaka prevented this and gave the staff to Botar who sent it back to Daxia where it was triggered by either Trinuma or Helryx (though I can't confirm either one of them!)So back to Brutaka quickly... It seems to me that after the trouble up on VN island, Botar transported him to the pit but as it was already breached due to TGC he was never truly 'imprisoned' so essentially he could have left to do something else literally immediately. It WAS Brutaka who captured the Toa Nuva on VN but the details of his reclaiming of the staff is shaky at best.The Toa Nuva, it turns out were actually captured twice on Voya Nui! When they first arrived they were dumped by the volcano by the Piraka with no masks and tools, then they got caught again by Brutaka when they tried to get their masks back! Soon after the second rescue it's revealed that the Mask of Life 'quest' is already over as it's flown into the sea. The Toa Nuva then tell the Inika they're heading back to Metru Nui but later reveal they lied and are actually off to recover the staff of Artakha (as part of a bunch of preparations for waking Mata Nui)Basically they had to release the Bohrok and get the staff but there were a few more rubbish little jobs too. Either way it seems that the Nuva managed to complete all of their tasks (including travelling all the way down one of the robot's legs) in the time it took the Inika/Mahri to follow the Mask of Life down into Karda Nui.Wierd really, timing feels completely off to me. But then the entire Toa Mata/Nuva/Mistika/Phantoka storyline is actually less than a year long so hey I guess the original Toa were just way better than all the other rubbish wannabe's Staff of Artahka: Whenua most likely remembered it from his matoran days in the Metru Nui Archives, where I think it was taken either during the Toa-Dark Hunter war, or the 1000 years Metru Nui was mostly abandoned. It was then taken to Odina, where Icarax later stole it, at the request of Teridax, who wished to use it the repair the Nui Stone from fragments in the deceased Toa Tuyet. This plan was foiled by Brutaka, who reclaimed it for the Order of Mata Nui.The Toa Nuva were intially to go back to Metru Nui to help Takanuva with city defense (as normal) but were stopped by Axonn and given the tasks in order to prepare Mata Nui for awakening. One of these was to retrieve the Staff of Artahka, which would repair all damage done during the Great Cataclysm. This wouldn't have restarted the Energy Storms because it did a completely different objective, to repair the damage (hole made by Voya Nui, damage to Metru Nui, general damage to the Great Spirit Robot... etc)Brutake was indeed taken to The Pit after the events of the 2006 storyline, where he was slightly mutated (his species are very resistant to Pit Mutagen, as well as become more strengthened when exposed to Antidermis) and he stole the Staff of Artahka when Icarax attempted to give to to Teridax (Icarax stole is from Odina par Teridax's request, and was taken by Brutaka and handed off to Botar, who later took it to the place the Toa Nuva see it in Toa Nuva Blog, which, in a sense, redeemed him in the eyes of the OoMN.) He was then freed from the pit to lead a team of expendables to release Makuta Miserix (Federation of Fear.As for timing here's how it goes: It had been aprox. 1 year since Takua summoned the Toa Mata to the island of Mata Nui via Toa stones when the Toa Inika descended down through the Cord to Mahri Nui. The Mahri Nui saga only consisted of a few days (which is fairly reasonable in consideration to the tasks, two on Mata Nui, one on Artidax, and one in some of the Southern Islands, maybe a week at most for the tasks) Edited February 29, 2012 by T.B.O.C Quote My Brickshelf, please don't copy!... ...Looking for shiny Regirock, Articuno, and Virizion!(Can trade most any legendary for them!)My 3DS friend list is full, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BULiK Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 @ above post.axonn didn't give them the tasks, he told them where the list was: in a compartment inside the great temple. Quote Visit www.BZPRPG.com to view my project of archiving BZPower's RPGs, and also access the BZPower Roleplaying Wiki BZPRPG Profiles - Ghosts Of Bara Magna Profiles Exo-Force RPG Profiles - Six Kingdoms: Apocalypse (Knichou, Berys, Arnex, The Taku, Exuze) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.B.O.C Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 @ above post.axonn didn't give them the tasks, he told them where the list was: in a compartment inside the great temple.Yeah, that's what I meant, i forgot to put it. Thanks for reminding me. Quote My Brickshelf, please don't copy!... ...Looking for shiny Regirock, Articuno, and Virizion!(Can trade most any legendary for them!)My 3DS friend list is full, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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