blogs_blog_1374

Manas. If two Toa Kaita had trouble handling it, a Matoran in an exo-suit made out of the body parts of former Av-Matoran is not going to do better.

 

Owait, all of them on the island? Yeah, Boxors win because half could fight the Manas while the other half destroys the towers.

Boxor. Because it is the most hilariously metal thing in all of BONKLE, and could probably kickflip with the right work. You ever seen a mana kickflip?

Boxers. Because the ingenuity of Matoran would beat out robotic Manas. Also, technically, the Boxors had a longer reach set wise than the Manas.

 

Boxors, but only after a huge amount have been slaughtered.

I was thinking about 1 Manas crab vs. 1 Boxor, but if we are talking about all the Matoran and dead Bohrok rising en masse, then I guess they would beat the lonely crabs.

Not the dead Bohrok, though. Although 1 Boxor vs. 1 Manas crab is a match that I think would go the the Manas crab. In a full campaign, however, assuming that there are 100-ish Boxors manned by qualified pilots against an equal amount of Manas, I think I will root for the ingenuity of the Tohunga. However, I agree with Kumata that a huge amount of them would be slaughtered. The Manas are no pushovers. They put up a decent fight against the Toa Kaita, after all (although the Kaita didn't use a single one of their powers, which confuses the argument and frustrates me).

 

Anyways, I think I count more votes for the Boxors. Next round will be up tomorrow.

 

EDIT: Boxors vs. Modern Armor

 

Area of comparison: Death Match

 

Okay, let's assume that Matoran-piloted Boxors appeared in the real world. How would they measure up to an equally sized division of modern tanks while duking it out in the forested lands of Luxembourg?

 

 

24601

Modern Armor. I don't care how good you can punch, or how thick your dead comrades' shells are, a shell from the main gun of an M1 Abrams is going to blow your whole contraption to the moon.

I don't know how heavily forested Luxembourg is, but I'm assuming that there aren't a whole lot of open spaces for the tanks to get a clear shot? I also don't know with how much force a Boxor can punch with, or how big they are relative to the tanks, or how maneuverable they are compared to tanks. I'm going to assume that the infantry men inside the tanks will be able to shoot with regular guns when the Boxors are in close range, thus damaging the machines or killing the Matoran. But I really have no idea. Way too many unknown factors here.

Tanks>Boxors.

Modern tanks. They have guns, for Mata Nui's sake!

Here are a few pictures of Luxembourg. My reasoning behind this arena is that the Boxors would lose in an open battlefield, so this area kind of favors their maneuverability (especially since they have legs), but on the other hand modern militaries would know the landscape better, especially with GPS.

 

As for the height of a Boxor, we know that Matoran, according to the census gathered in this topic, are about four and a half feet tall. Now just try to visualize the Boxor with a Matoran in it. It's defnitely smaller than a tank, but on the plus side it's much more maneuverable.

 

As for the punching capacity, it's basically whatever you think it should be. Apparently it's enough to beat up Bohrok.

 

24601

Tanks. The Mataron would lose so fast it isn't even funny.

On the question of tanks and trees and maneuvering:

 

This is the Abrams, the tank everyone thinks of when modern american tanks come up. It has been in service since 1980, meaning we have been using the same design for 32 years. The M1 Abrams, the most basic model, has a 1500 shp engine, a 105 mm main gun, one .50 caliber (12.7 mm) heavy machine gun, two .308 caliber (7.62 mm) machine guns, and armor that is a minimum of 350 mm thick all over. That armor is over a foot thick. It weighs over 60 tons, regardless of long or short qualifier. It can go at speeds of up to 25 MPH off road, 35 mph on paved surfaces. And, IIRC, the treads can be independently controlled, so that it can almost spin in place.

 

Try telling me a forest would stop that beast at all.

On the question of tanks and trees and maneuvering:

 

This is the Abrams, the tank everyone thinks of when modern american tanks come up. It has been in service since 1980, meaning we have been using the same design for 32 years. The M1 Abrams, the most basic model, has a 1500 shp engine, a 105 mm main gun, one .50 caliber (12.7 mm) heavy machine gun, two .308 caliber (7.62 mm) machine guns, and armor that is a minimum of 350 mm thick all over. That armor is over a foot thick. It weighs over 60 tons, regardless of long or short qualifier. It can go at speeds of up to 25 MPH off road, 35 mph on paved surfaces. And, IIRC, the treads can be independently controlled, so that it can almost spin in place.

 

Try telling me a forest would stop that beast at all.

 

This guy makes a good point. If you have netflix, it would be a good idea to watch "greatest tank battles" to really get the idea of this beast's power.

Tanks. As cool as Boxors are, tanks have more raw destructive power.

Well, with the arguments given and the outcome of the votes, it seems pretty reasonable that Modern Armor won this round. Now for the next round:

 

Modern Armor vs. The Toa

 

Area of Comparison: Death Match

 

Conditions: This is assuming that the Toa mentioned here are the Toa Mata and they have just arrived from their shells. They have not collected any Kanohi. There are 100 Abrams, the tank mentioned by Xaerez. The setting is New York.

 

24601

If the Toa have just emerged from their shells, then they haven't teamed up yet. And they're still trying to figure out their powers. I don't see how they can stand a chance with that little experience. The Nuva, however...

 

Actually, upon second thought, great control over their powers might not be necessary. Since this is New York, there's lots of places to hide. Kopka could just ice the tanks from ambush, and Pohatu with this mask of speed and kicking abilities could probably put a few dents in the tanks. Depending on how susceptible the tanks are to heat, Tahu could roast them from the inside with his Hau activated. Onua can definitely use his mask of strength to disable the tanks, but without any sort of protection he might not last long. Not sure how much good Lewa and Gali would do.

 

I'm still going to give a slight advantage to the tanks, since there's 100 of them and only two or three Toa that would cause a problem. Though I stand by my belief that the Kanohi'd Toa/Nuva would be able to handle them no problem.

Assuming the M1 still, and not any of its even better variants? Still the tanks. And I'm not even going to bother mentioning the main gun, considering we're in the Big Applesauce.

 

This here is a diagram listing various types of bullets an M2 Browning Heavy Machine Gun can fire. Note the four varieties of armor-piercing bullets. The Toa, being biomechanical, have a metal shell over some organic components. Armor piercing rounds are specifically designed to punch through armor thicker than anything the toa could have without being larger than the size of your average adult. If you don't believe that, take a look at this image of a wall that was shot by an armor piercing 50 cal round.

 

Now, let's go ahead and give the toa a boon. We're not going to use any special types of 50 cal rounds, we're just going to use a bog standard lead bullet. This image compares six bullets to an american dollar bill. The 50 cal is on the left. For those unfamiliar with the american dollar, here is one next to a ruler. The bullet is over five inches, or 12.5 cm long. When you combine that with the fact that they're coming out of this machine gun at anywhere from 485 to 635 rounds per minute, about 10 rounds every second on the upside, I don't see how a team of ragtag heroes still finding their powers and abilities can last against 100 tanks armed such.

 

Now, Tahu might pose a problem for the tanks, with his fire and hau, but I would say 50 tanks would be able to handle him, if they even lose 50 fighting the others. Gali, Lewa, and Pohatu could probably escape, thanks to their mask powers, and Onua might be able to tear a tank or two apart, yes, but I doubt they would be able to handle as many as we have been given.

I don't know. The Toa are as resilient as anything, but there are 100 tanks. If this is a death match, then I'd say Toa. Gali has New York Harbor flood the city, Onua shakes the buldings to the ground, Tahu goes crazy, and who knows what Pohatu, Kopaka, and Lewa are up to. I'd say the Toa would have the tanks buried before the tanks could bring them down in NYC.

 

Of course this is all assuming that the Toa don't care about the New Yorkers they might injure, and that the US Army doesn't care either.

Well, let's say the Toa are teamed up. However, their power is at the base level. I will also assume that NYC has been evacuated. There are also soldiers within the tanks and we can assume that they are capable and getting out when their equipment fails. For the sake of the comparison, the rest of the army doesn't matter; it's a question of whether or not the Toa would survive the first round.

 

By the way, I really have to commend Xaerez for going above and beyond with providing useful details.

 

24601

Here's another one. My name ends Az, not Ez. =P

 

That having been said, even with the toa teaming up and being able to command what they can, they still wouldn't be able to withstand the combined onslaught of one hundred tanks.

 

Now, since we've turned NYC into a vacant battleground, we can feel free to bring the main gun into the battle. The M1 Abrams uses the M68 variant of the Royal Ordnance L7, a British cannon design. The M68 has, at my current count, seven kinds of combat-ready ammunition: Armor-Piercing Discarding-Sabot, Armor-Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding-Sabot, APERS-T ("anti-personnel-tracer"), High Explosive fragmentation, High Explosive Anti Tank, High Explosive Squash Head, and Smoke-White Phosphorus Incendiary. If we disregard the SWPI and the APERS-T, because the fire gives Tahu an easy counter, then we're left with two armor piercing shells, and three high explosive shells. Each tank carries around 42 shells, and can fire up to ten per minute. This means there could be a thousand shells hurled at the toa per minute for four solid minutes, assuming every tank is present and has a clear shot.

 

Of course, that scenario wouldn't happen, so the main gun is probably going to be used in long corridors, like the streets, or in open spaces, like Central Park. This still leaves the M240s and the M6 free to open fire when needed, assuming the turret gunner can handle an M240 when not using the turret. M240s fire the .308 round, which is small than a 50 cal, but still upwards of 2 inches in length. The fire between 750 and 950 rounds per minute. If we park the tank, since an M1 Abrams has a crew of four, and arm each of the machine guns and the main gun, then the toa have to contend with a maximum of 635 50 cal rounds, ten shells of some variety, and 1900 .308 rounds all coming in their direction each minute.

 

The way I see it, the only way the toa could win would be to use their much smaller size and mask powers to engage in hit-and run. Even then, they may not be able to replenish elemental energy in time for the next conflict.

Toa. They have flamethrowers, ice spikes, boulders flying at you, manipulation of the earth to block the tanks, powerful wind gusts that make your bullets miss and mini-floods! with infinite ammo! Tahu has basically immortality due to his hau if he makes sure to use it at the right moments. Karz, lewa can fly! Gali can go underwater infinitely and flood the inside of tanks from the new york coast. Onua can hide in basements and tunnels, swallowing tanks in the earth. Pohatu goes too fast to get a decent shot with any heavy guns while machine guns would barely dent toa armor, while he and onua would tip skyscrapers upon squadrons of tanks. Kopaka can freeze the barrels of your guns, making your high explosive rounds blow up your cannon. they can manuever in tight spaces and establish underground and underwater bases with ease. Just hit and run until they're all dead, or do full scale attacks from the skys.

 

Toa win this without a doubt.

Toa.

 

It's New York, and so the Toa (Who dress in bright colors and can blow up things with their minds.) have the Law of Narrative Causality on their side.

An HE round isn't going to explode inside the barrel, even if it is frozen up. And, I'm sorry, but did you fail to see the wall that got blasted with a 50 cal?

 

Now, you make a few good points, but the Hau doesn't protect against ambush, and it's also useless against attacks that don't fall under the category of 'physical.' Tipping a skyscraper would be insanely difficult, even for a powerhouse like Onua or Pohatu, due to the heavily reinforced nature of their construction. The toa would have to go through and smash every last supporting pillar, wall, and column by hand/foot/massive child bearing hip to topple a 'scraper, since the concrete used in their construction, if at all, is almost always reinforced. As in, filled with metal rods. Lewa can fly and blow away some bullets, yes, but not the sheer volume that could be levied against him. Gali could flood the tanks to some extent, yes, but they still have ventilation inside them, and where there's ventilation, there's holes for the water to flow out. Plus, that's assuming the tank doesn't have its turret closed and sealed. Pohatu's speed and Onua's tunneling powers are the only ones that could provide a serious problem for the army, but that is honestly nothing that can't be defeated by judicious use of gun the instant something approaching a sighting occurs.

If it's a death match, all it takes is one Nova blast from any of the Toa, and NYC is in ruins.

 

When Toa don't play by the rules, anything can happen. Granted, if they were in a big, open plain, it would be a lot harder. But 100 tanks are not going to hold up when Onua brings down the Big Apple with an earthquake that would make California seem stable.

 

Then there's the hurricane Lewa and Gali could bring on, and Tahu can still melt the city and tanks into slag once the other Toa get clear. Our favorite heroes really have extremely dangerous powers if they don't have to worry about civilians and collateral damage. Plus, Tahu's got that Hau. How is science going to punch through his magic shield before he burns the town down?

 

Even if the tanks severely wound one of the Toa, I'm sure they'd have enough time for a nova blast, which ends any fight that a toa uses it in. The only reason they don't is because of the Toa Code. In a death match, Toa Code goes out the window.

 

It's like having a nuke go off where the only person left is the one who nova blasted.