Are mask powers dependent on the mask shape?

[Dorkpool]

Is the power of a mask determined by its shape? Or can a mask shaped like a Hau have the power of an Olmak?

[NickonAquaMagna]

The shape seems arbitrary, honestly. In the days of Metru Nui (which was... well.. most of them), Kanohi masks were forged from various Kanoka disks, each having their own effects on whatever they struck when launched. Combining these effects created powers for the masks that would be made from them. I think mask makers were simply trained to carve them in certain shapes to make them recognizable (and marketable) as this or that particular mask with whatever power one would expect it to have.

 

As a Toa, Norik wore a mask of diminishment, which allowed him to shrink. It looks exactly like a Kanohi Kiril (because it is, in lego set form), but in the story, he had it remolded that way as an homage to another warrior who wore a Kiril.

[Canis Lycaon]

It's closer to shape is dependent on power, but they are linked.

[Daughter of Irnakk]

Krakua had a Hau-shaped Suletu. So nope, And some Makuta added fangs and stuff to their masks by shapshifting them a bit.

[bonesiii]

The shape is a label. Think of it as a cereal box's label.

 

Usually they put the right cereal in the right box for obvious reasons.

 

Occasionally they have cultural reasons to not do so -- the analogy breaks down a little here, but let's go with it anyways. Let's say, you have two boxes of cereal, both almost empty, and that one has the label of your second-favorite cereal. You also have a box you don't eat from as often that is your third-favorite. Now somebody gives you a bag of cereal they didn't want, and it's your top favorite, but they put a chipclip on it and don't have the box (maybe their box was damaged). You could eat what little is left of your third-favorite and put it in that box (assume here that you want it in a box -- a mask having no shape is not an option ), but you'd more likely eat the second-favorite and put your favorite in that box. In a way, you're honoring your second-favorite by doing this.

 

It's not a direct analogy but that's kind of what's going on with cases like Toa Norik's mask. The main difference is that they're honoring someone in the past who wore the shape rather than the power the shape normally goes with. (And saying the power the new mask does have is more preferred to that mask's user than the power used by the person being honored.)

 

 

Maybe a more direct analogy is you pick the box with a favorite celeb endorser's picture on it.

Edited March 17, 2014 by bonesiii

[TERIDAX941]

Of course this all doesn't apply to Matoran masks, being powerless, they can be whatever shape the matoran wants. They may even invent new ones just to be different lol

[Matoro Zeliph]

Well, I believe in the Metru Nui days, Ta-Matoran had to massively produce masks for others who needs replacements or constantly breaks them. So they have to set a standard design code, because if someone needs their mask replaced,they don't have to deal with the long wait in order to get another specialty custom mask. If they try to go out of the boundaries and make their own designs, they'll be wasting their time. Seriously, it makes me wonder why the 6 Toa Metru get to have uniquely special custom masks. Probably because they were rich enough to ask for a custom one.

Ok, as you can tell, I am making this up! I honestly don't know! I'm just making assumptions!

[bonesiii]

If they try to go out of the boundaries and make their own designs, they'll be wasting their time

Hardly -- maskmaking is an actual job, even more than one, and masks wouldn't be breaking every year. Given the vast spans of time of their lives, the real question is how they can fill the time to justify even having that as a job. And having every mask be an identical clone in terms of exact style is inefficient in the long term because they're meant to be people's faces. In fact, generally you'd want each one to have something unique. It's confirmed that different maskmakers had signature styles too.

 

Seriously, it makes me wonder why the 6 Toa Metru get to have uniquely special custom masks. Probably because they were rich enough to ask for a custom one.

Much more likely they were the only ones the movie people could afford to make the masks more like what the average Matoran mask would likely be; the background Matoran were just a few clones recolored here and there to save budget. However, as citizens of Metru Nui, they may have had fancier masks than those in some regions. (I assume we're talking about their Matoran masks.)

[SarracenianKaijin]

This seems an interesting idea actually.

After all when we think about it, in Polynesian cultures masks are used as totemic symbols. Ethos in a form of a physical construct.

 

Take for example; Hau is used as the symbol for not only Tahu, the leader-spirit of the god-heroes, and of protection and shielding. In its refined Kanoka form, it becomes that of growth and regeneration.

It only stands to reason then that the pantheistic god of Bionicle, Mata Nui, would also then be represented by Hau. For isn't that what Mata Nui is? Protection instigating growth?

 

So no. The shapes are not labels on cereal boxes. What preposterous and unimaginative idea that is.

[bonesiii]

So no. The shapes are not labels on cereal boxes. What preposterous and unimaginative idea that is.

?? Since I'm the one who gave that analogy, I can only imagine you're responding to me. It is meant only as an analogy, and the idea conveyed by it is canon fact; the shapes are labels. I also didn't see what in your post was meant to lead up to the "so" here. Why do you say this?

 

Also, why do you call it "unimaginative"? As opposed to what? It was invented with the imagination, so I would say it is pretty imaginative. And why "preposterous"? (And are you just talking about my choice of analogy? Or about the fact that the shapes function like labels?)

Edited April 15, 2014 by bonesiii

[SarracenianKaijin]

 

So no. The shapes are not labels on cereal boxes. What preposterous and unimaginative idea that is.

?? Since I'm the one who gave that analogy, I can only imagine you're responding to me. It is meant only as an analogy, and the idea conveyed by it is canon fact; the shapes are labels. I also didn't see what in your post was meant to lead up to the "so" here. Why do you say this?

 

Also, why do you call it "unimaginative"? As opposed to what? It was invented with the imagination, so I would say it is pretty imaginative. And why "preposterous"? (And are you just talking about my choice of analogy? Or about the fact that the shapes function like labels?)

 

Your analogy, through which I mean your figure of speech, is in fact, in support of a very fatal banality, that is, meaning it conveys negation of the living through the dangerous mundanity of the nothing. It is in fact, the label of the most self-destructive parts of the material reality.

 

It is an ideal that by itself is anti-ideal. An negation of oneself and mind, and a practice of symbolic manipulation that serves a deathly hierarchy. An excessive and all-encompassing non-thought that kills the thoughts it perpetuates.

Thus, by its nature, forgettable and replaceable by the greater progress of history, which it had spread its insidious influence on, like a ripple.

Edited April 15, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin

[bonesiii]

Um, you have apparently completely missed the point. None of that stuff you said there was at all implied in my post. The topic starter was simply asking if the shapes can be independent of the powers, and if so, how so. That was all I was addressing. Deeper meanings are not at all negated by this (in fact a superficial reality is always attached to any deeper meaning; to attack one superficial "face" of deeper meaning ignores that different "faces" would also have superficial appearances, if you will).

 

Note: I get that you're probably just sounding fancy for the heck of it. But for the sake of others reading along who might be curious... Plus, to deny surface-level reality is just as dangerous as to deny deeper meanings; your posts came across as in denial of the former.

 

Besides, things like cereal boxes do exist. Mundane they may be, but they're realistic. But the mundane aspect of them was clearly not the point of the analogy as my original post made clear.

Edited April 15, 2014 by bonesiii

[SarracenianKaijin]

How quaint to talk of missing the points and superficial realities, when you have not penetrated into the meanings themselves and have, in fact, created your own "face" on top of another.

A shield to which uses to guard a dwelling meaning that is in fact, not the one below the surface level, rather a false level. A trap.

 

Much like the Kanohi of Makuta.

 

The nothing that gives nothing and takes nothing.

Edited April 15, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin

[bonesiii]

Fiction is invented by people and when the people in charge of the canon say something, it's fact, within that canon. This has nothing to do with failing to penetrate into deeper meanings (how do you know I have failed that? I submit that I probably understand even deeper things than you -- but it's not a contest) -- but then, you can also assign the wrong deeper meanings if you can't deal with the straightforward reality itself...

 

Now, that's enough of that (your tone has been rather borderline as well, BTW -- keep in mind we have rules against flaming/trolling). You've made your view clear; but there is no need to dichotomize it against the simple canon story factoids. Why create antagonism? Why not have both? Your latest post said nothing on-topic; it appears clear you were not saying there was a canon problem with what I said, you just didn't like the style of the analogy (incidentally, when I made it, as usual, I was aware some people might react that way, but you/they are missing the point.) If you have more to say in response to me that isn't about how mask shapes relate to mask powers in the actual canon, please confine it to a PM.

[SarracenianKaijin]

... If you do "I probably understand even deeper things than you ", you would have realized by now then that I have not trolled nor flamed, nor have I not stayed out of topic and in fact, brought it back to where it was.

 

That is, the interesting fact that Makuta themselves have two faces, or are represented by a mask with two faces, both of which beneath them hide something very horrifying. If canon idea that something beneath Makuta's kanohi is very extraordinary is to be believed.

 

Also interesting is how when Makuta chose a sickly Matoran in his form, his mask was of Hau, the symbol of protection and growth. There is something more beneath to the idea of shapes correlating with their powers here. The classical alchemical idea of symbols interchangeable with the reality.

 

And here I am creating these ideas through "simple canon story factoids", so you are mistaken.

Edited April 15, 2014 by bonesiii
You are free to have an opinion, but not break our rules. Post edited slightly to remove disrespectful tone. It's great that you say you didn't intend trolling/flaming, but if your post doesn't reflect this, it's still a problem. -bones

[TERIDAX941]

That is, the interesting fact that Makuta themselves have two faces, or are represented by a mask with two faces, both of which beneath them hide something very horrifying. If canon idea that something beneath Makuta's kanohi is very extraordinary is to be believed.

 

Also interesting is how when Makuta chose a sickly Matoran in his form, his mask was of Hau, the symbol of protection and growth. There is something more beneath to the idea of shapes correlating with their powers here. The classical alchemical idea of symbols interchangeable with the reality.

Makuta don't have two faces. The Kraahkan (or Mask of Shadows) was just given that feature so that the Mask could be used by both a Makuta and a Toa, and also applies to the fact that the mask could change shape whenever Teridax wanted it to.

 

And when he took the form of a Matoran he did so because the matoran was the one thing that the Toa were sworn to protect, so in disguising himself as one, he took them off guard so he could gain the advantage of surprise.

[SarracenianKaijin]

 

That is, the interesting fact that Makuta themselves have two faces, or are represented by a mask with two faces, both of which beneath them hide something very horrifying. If canon idea that something beneath Makuta's kanohi is very extraordinary is to be believed.

 

Also interesting is how when Makuta chose a sickly Matoran in his form, his mask was of Hau, the symbol of protection and growth. There is something more beneath to the idea of shapes correlating with their powers here. The classical alchemical idea of symbols interchangeable with the reality.

Makuta don't have two faces. The Kraahkan (or Mask of Shadows) was just given that feature so that the Mask could be used by both a Makuta and a Toa, and also applies to the fact that the mask could change shape whenever Teridax wanted it to.

 

And when he took the form of a Matoran he did so because the matoran was the one thing that the Toa were sworn to protect, so in disguising himself as one, he took them off guard so he could gain the advantage of surprise.

 

That's the easy answer that actually doesn't answer much. Shape-changing mask also doesn't disprove my reading of it exactly, kinda enforces it even (though the clever "two-faced" gimmick is gone by then).

 

And isn't matoran's Hau symbolizing one of protection here? The Hau here only further adds to the masquerade here. I don't see how that blanket statement actually disprove what I said either.

 

Actually, this also works when you think of this using the idea of Makuta's two faces, which one of them sort of resembles a Hau. Remember, Makuta's former duty was to protect the god and its world. So yeah. Hau.

Edited April 15, 2014 by SarracenianKaijin

[bonesiii]

And isn't matoran's Hau symbolizing one of protection here?

Yes. "Hau" literally means protection or shielding in Matoran. Although Teridax probably chose it more to emphasize his acting as Mata Nui's brother, and the protection symbolism mainly comes from Mata Nui. But in MOL Makuta does build on the idea by saying he's protecting Mata Nui.

[SarracenianKaijin]

 

And isn't matoran's Hau symbolizing one of protection here?

Yes. "Hau" literally means protection or shielding in Matoran. Although Teridax probably chose it more to emphasize his acting as Mata Nui's brother, and the protection symbolism mainly comes from Mata Nui. But in MOL Makuta does build on the idea by saying he's protecting Mata Nui.

 

Yep, just as what I've been saying.

[Aho]

It seems like there were some "set" shapes put in place by the GB's during Mata Nui's earlier days, and the mask makers expanded on them as time went on… I've always wondered, though, how the evolution of mask shapes took place throughout the MU's history… (like, Lhikan's Hau) is it logical to conclude that more isolated islands in the MU developed shapes for masks that were drastically different than the base designs? It would be cool to see a Toa from a different section of the MU that is more isolated from other islands just to see how his armor, mask, and gear would be different….

[bonesiii]

is it logical to conclude that more isolated islands in the MU developed shapes for masks that were drastically different than the base designs?

At least to theorize it, yes, but I wouldn't put too much proverbial money on it. Highly isolated islands were probably not doing a lot of mask-making to begin with; if they were technologically advanced enough to handle that, they'd probably be fairly involved in commerce, travel, etc. with other places. But it could happen.

 

And depends on what you mean by drastically, too -- if you mean still recognizable, I'd say yeah. If you mean an almost totally different shape, probably not... but then again, even some of the Nobles versus their Great versions are pretty radically different.

[Kopekemaster]

I highly doubt it, since we have seen in-movie (among other canon sources) and stuff masks change shape. For example, Toa Lhikan's Hau is shaped quite differently from Tahu Mata's (or Jaller's ;D) Hau.

[Mr. Lightning Bolt]

I highly doubt it, since we have seen in-movie (among other canon sources) and stuff masks change shape. For example, Toa Lhikan's Hau is shaped quite differently from Tahu Mata's (or Jaller's ;D) Hau.

His seems to be described as a variant. Whenever I look at it, I find myself wanting to describe it as the Noble version due to that Duracell "puppet", as I prefer the old one to be the Great version.

 

As for powers, I think there's no great requirement to form the masks into specific shapes, but there seems to be the rule that when it can be helped, mask makers make the shape of the mask in a specific shape designated as the standard for that specific type of mask. Citing the fact that the Rua and Aki (masks of wisdom and valor) are in the shapes of the Gold Hau and Silver Miru primarily, and that the Suletu of Krakua is in the shape of a Hau, the Pekhui in the shape of a Kiril, etc. Plus the masks of the Makuta mutate and shapeshift along with them.

[Aanchir]

No, there is no such requirement. Toa Kaita Akamai's Kanohi Aki was in the shape of a Hau, as was Toa Krakua's Kanohi Suletu. Toa Kaita Wairuha's Kanohi Rua was in the shape of a Miru. The Mask of Life took many different forms without its powers or power level changing. Toa Norik's Kanohi Pehkui was in the shape of a Noble Kanohi Kiril.