Everything Wrong With Bionicle

[bonesiii]

It's worth a try, I suppose. Please note "physical law" shouldn't be confused with what we're talking about per se; those are meant to be universal, and I defined physics as the broad category including things like materials properties. (Just FTR. )

 

Most of them can be found on BS01 in various places though.

[Tattorack]

I see what you're saying. Well, those weren't really his Toa Team, though. And offhand I'm not sure if they called him leader of the army. I forgot to mention, though, that I'm pretty sure Greg did say they didn't tell the Matoran about Nidhiki. Which isn't directly relevant since Vakama's team found out later, but I bring it up as I'm unsure if they told them about Tuyet. Regardless, they knew about Vakama and their own troubles with the venom, and inexperience.

 

 

Yeah, no Matoran recognized Tuyet when she returned.

Did the Turaga expect the coming Toa, Matoran transformees or otherwise, to be potentially poisend?

 

Lol fair enough. But there's only so many options in psychology. The specifics of the situation that led to the jealousy are pretty innovative. I'm sure there's some parallels in some fiction, but yeah. (There's that for just about anything.)

 

Well developed evil baddies I've seen before, and it makes the story more... just more.

Granted, Bionicle is one of the most filling and full stories I know about (sitting among Middle Earth and the likes) but the bad guy, Makuta Teridax and the Makuta brotherhood, are rather generic.

Take the French tv series "Wakfu" for instance, particularily the first season; the main antagonist, Noximillian the Xelor, had a whole solid reason for being the evil bad guy. He's so well made that you can understand why he killed all those people and why he became crazy to the point that in the end you find yourself wanting to forgive him in some way. (And yes, Wakfu has the same target age as Bionicle )

 

The Makuta are just jealous and power-hungry, like Palpatine, LORE, Sauron, Melkor, The Illusive Man, Galbatorix etc.

 

I'll grant you that, but that didn't seem implied by the simple statement that mask finding is convenient. And it wouldn't always be the case -- say Tahu is collecting a Noble Mask, of Translation, for Vakama, and a Rahi comes up. What's he gonna do, talk it to death? Or a Mask of Water Breathing, nowhere near Water.

 

Not that we saw the Toa through every mask they collected, but we onl saw the ones that helped against the particular attacking foe, or condition.

And yes, you'd believe somebody could talk another to death with the Kanohi of translation if you ever are unfortunate enough to go into an emotional discussion with my sister

 

Actually for the reason I said above this isn't a problem in Bionicle, although we did have to wait to 2008's end to find out why -- Makuta wasn't trying to defeat the Toa, but just make it look like he was trying. (And again, did this actually happen in a statistically unlikely amount?) Even without that, the idea of an ambush makes sense; put the Rahi by the mask, and the Toa will eventually come there. Makes sense it might take a minute for the ambush to close as the Toa picks up the mask.

 

 

Ok, so it worked out for them, or him specifically.

But I've wondered why. A single Makuta could control an entire continent like a third limb (from weather to creatures).

But then we find out there are more of them... what was the holdup?

 

Kudos for noticing.

 

I was a fan of Star Trek before I ever heard of Bionicle, of course I noticed!

 

Not sure where this is from, but that's not really fair to complain about. There's only three options and all three are done a lot ergo cliche -- arrive early, arrive on time, or arrive late.

 

First webisode of the Bohrok War, the Tahnok are suddenly there a lot quicker than expected.

This has been used so many times with no real explanations given when desperate people just need to appear that bit more desperate (the movie 2012 though overused it like a bomb).

 

I can see why you might think that if you only watch that one episode, but it was clearly just meant to slow them down, since the entire village evacuated to Ga-Koro later. Obviously they needed to buy time to climb down the back wall of the village or something like that. Had the Bohrok gotten into the village at that moment, it would have basically been a kill box.

 

The real problem here (which I've fixed in my version ) is that whether the statues are resting on their necks or faces is irrelevant as shown; either way they could easily go around them.

 

I'm also taking in account the Tahnok the Toa were trying to stop before they arrived at Po Koro (in the comic).

Pohatu generated a dense stone slab, Kopaka generated a capsule of extremely hard packed ice, both were dispatched withing seconds.

The statues shouldn't have faired much better than the Koro's door itself, especially since the Tahnok could just surround the statues from all sides.

 

This has been brought up before, and there were some theories about how that's possible related to their being made of the same beings they were fighting, probably giving it some sort of elemental resistance that was more "in tune" than the Toa's. Although that would only work with Gahlok-made Boxor against Gahlok, you'd think. Another possibility is that it employs psychology -- here's a harmless Matoran standing on this weird pedestal thingy, dear Bohrok, so it's not a time for elemental blasting (unlike versus Toa), it's a time to knock his mask off and Krana him... but when you try, PUNCH. Could have worked at least for a while, and if the Bahrag were too busy to catch on and send new instructions, might have worked for the whole time.

 

Yeah, I suppose the element of surprise isn't among the ranks of all the other six elements the Bohrok have.

Unless you're a Po Matoran.

 

But that's consistent with their not being an enemy focused on destroying villages so they don't arrange all their strategy around that, and instead the type that happened to be going by stumbled upon it and decided to clean it. Also, the village is designed to withstand storm waves, rain, and just naturally sitting in water, so the Bohrok/Va may have reasoned that something with more oomph was appropriate, and attacked then instead of delaying to send a Gahlok squad. (Also, there is no Air. It was Acid.) What matters isn't their effectiveness against water (they're not there to attack the ocean!), but against stuff.

 

Plus it made for a much more interesting battle. Besides, this contradicts the convenience line of thinking. This is an example of apparent inconvenience (other than against the stone blocking the way in originally). It's realistic that at least one of the six villages would get attacked by an army not ideally suited to it. In fact, the chances of such a thing happening here are five out of six.

 

I wouldn't send an army equipt with desert trekking supplies to clear out an ocean, rather, I'd send scubba divers.

 

I'll grant you this although I think storywise it works, because it was imposed on the story as an excuse to get Exo-Toa out of the picture quickly; Greg said that one of the higher-ups didn't like Exo-Toa for some reason and didn't want them to get much story time. But the reasons I think it works are that you wouldn't want Toa to always go around in Exo-Toa then, which could get old fast (and quickly deviate from the sets, which wouldn't be including Exo-Toa again for newer fans that lacked them), and it was an interesting, unexpected twist.

 

Bloody writers!

I don't see why the Exo Toa couldn't be used to beat the Bahrag.

There's no point in using big and lumpy mechs on the unstable and un processed terrain of Mata Nui, but there where they found them was a very large empty chamber with a completely (or relatively) flat surface, perfect for heavey weapons machinery.

The writers could've just said the Toa didn't take them because they aren't maneuverable enough for the jungle, or the small underground caves, or the unstable lava terrain (and I'm sure they'd sink really well and have trouble walking over soft sand dunes too).

 

Did anybody actually say "no"? I do not recall such a thing ever being said, though it's possible one or two people did misunderstand.

 

I don't believe you were present (not as in "not part of the forum" but "not there at the right moment").

This happend mostly on the older forums.

Somebody asked how elemental energy worked/transfered/got generated and I answered with sci-fi liberal physics only to be slapped on the head with a short Greg F quote that apparently stated no physics from this universe apply at all.

Same went for a topic where somebody asked about the details of mask-power energy.

There were a few other occurences, but can't quite remember.

The one I remember the best was a topic I created that would give sci-fi liberal explanations on what Kanohi did to get their power and to the wearer.

One of the replies went somewhere along the lines of:

 

"Greg F had clearly stated more than once that no physics apply to the Bionicle universe, so a topic like this has no use. It was said this was done to give full liberty to the story team and avoid spending time having to explain anything"

 

The topic went dead and later got lost in one of the forum blackouts, and I didn't request a search for its return.

[fishers64]

Just out of curiosity, I decided to look into the Greg Dialogues to see if that was ever said.

 

 

 

COMMENT: He said himself that our physics don’t apply there.

 

This is referring to Bitil's use of a his Kanohi mask. However, in context it is clear that it isn't Greg speaking, and it refers only to Bitil's Mask. 

 

 

 

2. Did you ever think about what the Black Hole created by Nuhvok-Kal being crushed by it’s own power would do to the BIONICLE Planet? I think it is currently at the core of said Planet and it is it is slowly eating it inside out.

 

 

2) Nope. It’s a science-fantasy, so it does what I want it to do, not what the laws of physics say it would do. How do you know that if the being who created it ceased to exist, it didn’t cease to exist along with him?

 

Is this what you're thinking of? But this doesn't prove that there are no physics, just that Greg as the writer controls the physics. Just two posts above it, I read this:

 

 

 

1. in dark mirror lhikan was killed. and that did not happen in the main universe. would you say someone fom a different universe distrupted the lhikan and tuyet battle. or did the main universe get a distraction and the alternate universe was normal.

its baffling.

 

1) The way the theory of alternate universes works (and this is an actual physics theory) -- every time a decision gets made, an alternate universe splits off in which the opposite decisions gets made. For example, you see a car about to hit a child -- you decide to save the child, you dive, and you do so. But another reality gets created where you decided not to and the child died; and another where you decided too late, and you and the child both get killed or injured. In this case, the decision was Nidhiki’s -- in the main universe, he decided to remain on Lhikan’s side against Tuyet. But in the alt. universe, he sided with Tuyet and that cost Lhikan his life.

 

See, actual physics theory used in story, verified here. 

 

 

 

1. Does the theory of general relativity apply in the Bionicle universe?

1a. Specifically, the part that influences time travel- if you go near the speed of light, time slows for you and speeds up for the rest of the world, and when light speed is achieved, time stops, and when you go above the speed of light, time runs backwards?

 

1-1A) Nope. Earth science does not apply here, and I am not opening up options for time travel, since that is a can of worms.

 

But note the word here, which means that it only applies in relation to this question, not the whole of Bionicle. Still, could be misinterpreted.

 

 

 

2) How will the Toa Hagah communicate with Zaktan through the water tank? Will he have stick his head above the water or is this another case BIONICLE physics being different from ours?

 

2) If a sound is made underwater, you can still hear it outside of the water.

 

That's real world physics at play, again. So I don't know who said that, but they were wrong.  

 

[bonesiii]

Official Greg Dialogue said

1. Does the theory of general relativity apply in the Bionicle universe?

1a. Specifically, the part that influences time travel- if you go near the speed of light, time slows for you and speeds up for the rest of the world, and when light speed is achieved, time stops, and when you go above the speed of light, time runs backwards?

 

1-1A) Nope. Earth science does not apply here, and I am not opening up options for time travel, since that is a can of worms.

 

But note the word here, which means that it only applies in relation to this question, not the whole of Bionicle. Still, could be misinterpreted.

Also important to note that Greg is not a physics supergeek; he probably doesn't understand that actually relativity HAS to be the case for a universe to exist; he's just reacting to the very cherrypicked interpretation of "what relativity is" that that person said in the question. Actual relativity says you CAN'T go above lightspeed, and plenty of sci-fi invents ways to avoid the time travel thing even if you do (Warp Drive), so there would be no need to get rid of relativity just to ban time travel (also later on he did allow for time travel lol).

 

Greg hears it and thinks of it as "out there" so optional (this is not a criticism, but observation, and it's often true of the general public), when really it's like saying "basic math need not apply"; relativity is that foundational to a reality with matter. (And he also confirmed there's normal matter, which, though he might not realize it, is a confirmation of relativity.)

 

Basically, when Greg speaks about physics, take his word choice with a lot of salt. He's good with general matter behavior -- which is the majority of what comes up when writing stories with elemental heroes of things like water -- but when you get into things like black holes and spacetime, his understanding seems to be more comic-book-physics. Any author will have a limitation -- that's not even a bad thing per se. But when he says something doesn't apply, it's best to take it as "you're not supposed to worry about that."

 

And then in S&T and the like, the rule of "You don't have to worry, but you CAN have fun with it if you want" should apply.

 

In other words, Greg's saying that from a negative perspective, complaining that the apparent physics aren't like the real-world doesn't work because it's fiction and you can't rule out that some mechanism we can't understand could enable it (fallacy of absolute negative cannot be relied on). But from a positive perspective, we can take what happens as a given and try to have fun and exercise brains figuring out how they can be plausible. I'm not saying Greg himself would word it this way, but that's my interpretation.

Edited June 26, 2014 by bonesiii

[boston100]

thers not a lot wrong with bionicle but the one thing i dont like was all the new great mask like probability and life they seem a bit OP

thats just me though

[bonesiii]

Life was not a Great Mask, it was a Legendary Mask with all kinds of rules to prevent its OP-ness from being abused.

 

Probability, though, yeah, kinda.

[fishers64]

There's always a possibility that it wouldn't work though. (For that reason I always thought it was one of the most lame powers in the Bionicle universe, not OP at all.)
 

Also important to note that Greg is not a physics supergeek; he probably doesn't understand that actually relativity HAS to be the case for a universe to exist; he's just reacting to the very cherrypicked interpretation of "what relativity is" that that person said in the question. Actual relativity says you CAN'T go above lightspeed, and plenty of sci-fi invents ways to avoid the time travel thing even if you do (Warp Drive), so there would be no need to get rid of relativity just to ban time travel (also later on he did allow for time travel lol).
 
Greg hears it and thinks of it as "out there" so optional (this is not a criticism, but observation, and it's often true of the general public), when really it's like saying "basic math need not apply"; relativity is that foundational to a reality with matter. (And he also confirmed there's normal matter, which, though he might not realize it, is a confirmation of relativity.)

Er, sorry to get off topic here, but I thought relativity was a theory, hence term "the theory of relativity". I've heard the "It's confirmed! We can't go faster than the speed of light!" stories that go around, then the next story says it might not be true and that the other scientist had unreliable data for whatever reason blah blah blah.
 
Granted, though, I'm quite firmly in the "not a physics supergeek" territory myself lol, but it does make sense on some level - things have to exist relative to other things, otherwise you wouldn't have distances between fingers and computer keyboards, and people and airplanes, and then you wouldn't have motion because motion is measured relative to other things. I'm not sure what that has to do with the speed of light, other than our perception of said motion, which is usually done by light via eyes.

 

This might help too: 
 

2. Photok can run at the speed of light, yes?
2a. Is this only in conjunction with Pohatu?
[...]
4. Would you say that the speed of light is the same in the Bioniverse as it is here, 1,079,252,849 kilometers per hour, or 787,775,802 kio per hour?
 
2) Yes
2a) Yes
4) When I am writing, I generally figure it is. The problem with going that fast, though, is that it’s hard to steer, so while that is a maximum Photok can achieve, I haven’t had him go that fast in story

Note that he says that Photok can go the speed of light "at maximum." This is the actual question context BTW, #1 is in the quote you quoted.  Given the context I think it was a stick against Photok going faster than light and time going backward, not actual relativity being thrown out. My bad, sorry for confusion. 

 

[bonesiii]

Given the context I think it was a stick against Photok going faster than light and time going backward, not actual relativity being thrown out.

Right, but my point is, Greg probably doesn't really understand these kinds of advanced physics topics, and it shows in how he answers. When he answers on physics topics he understands, he'll give answers that appeal to physics, but on topics he doesn't, generally, he'll appeal to sayings like what's in that quote, rather than explain why the physics concept actually isn't a problem. That is probably what leads to most of the confusion like Tattorack had; hearing quotes (or paraphrases) like the latter without the context of the former.

 

And I'm not sure what you're saying about relativity. I could go into a long explanation, but you're right, it would be off-topic. Suffice to say, the normal functioning of matter depends in part upon it, so if you have "matter just like real life" like he has confirmed for Spherus Magna, you have relativity.

Edited June 27, 2014 by bonesiii

[Tattorack]

Er, sorry to get off topic here, but I thought relativity was a theory, hence term "the theory of relativity". I've heard the "It's confirmed! We can't go faster than the speed of light!" stories that go around, then the next story says it might not be true and that the other scientist had unreliable data for whatever reason blah blah blah.

 

Granted, though, I'm quite firmly in the "not a physics supergeek" territory myself lol, but it does make sense on some level - things have to exist relative to other things, otherwise you wouldn't have distances between fingers and computer keyboards, and people and airplanes, and then you wouldn't have motion because motion is measured relative to other things. I'm not sure what that has to do with the speed of light, other than our perception of said motion, which is usually done by light via eyes.

 

I think its rather flawed that nothing can go faster than light.

We just haven't discovered a way how yet and our physics model is still too primitive (I mean, we haven't even found the rake we could scratch the surface with! So to speak).

Einstein wasn't exactly right either, he said there was no "chance", "God doesn't play dice",  but probability and virtual particles in quantum prove him wrong (for the moment).

 

2003 (Comics and animations/movie):

 

1.The Toa somehow stand exactly on the right places to be sucked into the protodermis tubes.

2. We interrupt Bionicle to bring you Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

3. I'm sure Onewa didn't have Onua in mind when he said that.

4. Phonetic letters.

5. A reverse version of the "Attack Its Weak Point" trope applies.

6. The Bohrok and Bohrok Va are fully reprogrammed and under control of the Matoran, but none of them are used as defense drones.

7. Rocks patiently wait with falling till Tahu has finished his taunt.

8. Now they're using the Bohrok...and in the possably least effective way.

9. We interrupt Bionicle to bring you Power Rangers.

10. The Bohrok Kal, the only ones that can talk, sure like to hear the sound of their voice.

11. Tahu decided that the potentially very useful Kanohi Vahi should be kept a secret from the rest of the team till the last moment.

12. Also, Vakama trusts the Toa with a temporal powered superweapon, but not with the rest of the story? It would've been handy for the Toa Nuva to understand the purpose of the Bohrok to be more effective against them.

12. Rahkshi hate water.

13. Matoran writing needs to be translated.

14. Sorry Nokama, if you were really reading the text in the Ahvoki, or any Matoran for that matter, the you'd know that was not what the writing said.

15. Rahkshi are a #$%^& to architecture.

16. Rahkshi are a #$%^& to nature

17. Its not hard for any person to be quick enough to save another if the bad guy always takes this pause before killing somebody or throwing somebody over the edge. It should be a classed as a syndrome.

18. The mask of shielding would've been handy against those rocks. A well...

19. Krata are always a threat for as long as there is a Makuta. I agree wholly with Pohatu here.

20. Unless Kopaka brought the Chronicler with him or at least somebody to tell what happend, the only thing anyone would know of what would've happend here would be a dead Toa Nuva of ice.

21. The mask of shielding would've been handy against those rocks. deja Vu.

22. Ice and molten rock are perfect to use together on the same place.

23. The Kanohi Ahvoki likes to take a sight-seeing tour of of the continent before actually going to its destination.

24. Also, Mata Nui is often enough referred to as a continent sized island, yet traveling a through a whole bunch of realms doesn't take much more time than a day or two.

25. Takanuva throws out the entire basis of what makes a Toa team and the first virtue out the window.

26. Makuta suddenly feels like playing fair and decides to let his faith hang on a kohlii match, instead of crushing Takanuva then and there.

27. A combination of good + evil = good.

28. Death is cheap.

29. Also, convenient magical virtue symbol is convenient.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Tattorack

[bonesiii]

Some parts of your latest list are unclear -- what's the "that" in #3, for example?

 

The Bohrok and Bohrok Va are fully reprogrammed and under control of the Matoran, but none of them are used as defense drones.

No, they weren't reprogrammed by Matoran, if that's what you meant, certainly not "fully" -- they just accepted simple commands since their Krana were off (they already were programmed to do that). And that's the Bohrok, probably not the Va (Va don't use Krana). Also, defense against what?

 

The Kanohi Ahvoki likes to take a sight-seeing tour of of the continent before actually going to its destination.

Oddly this one keeps coming up. I guess maybe people are confusing it with the Ignika -- the Avohkii doesn't have any likes, as it's not alive. It had no destination either. Rather, the Matoran were trying to search for a Seventh Toa. This was made clear in the movie. You don't do a search by going right to a particular location. That was all about giving Takua time to think and admit what he was in denial about -- that it was him (and he wasn't at some destination... true, he would later need to go to Kini-Nui to get to the Makuta, but he didn't need to be there to transform).

 

Takanuva throws out the entire basis of what makes a Toa team and the first virtue out the window.

I haven't seen this misconception in a while, but basically, "Unity" does not mean "always be in the same physical place." It refers to teamwork and harmony. Different members of a team can go to different locations if the situation calls for it, and that can be part of unity. What it means is more psychological than that -- as in, don't be opposed to one another and don't spurn working together if the situation calls for it like some of the Toa Mata did at first after their memory loss. In that case, since there was only material to make one Ussanui, requiring the others to go with him would have slowed him down.

 

Makuta suddenly feels like playing fair and decides to let his faith hang on a kohlii match, instead of crushing Takanuva then and there.

Most people generally agree with this, but FTR, it isn't really sudden, and it was at least psychologically reasonable; it was a way to mock Takanuva. Of course, it was really done because the moviemakers wanted to do the typical callback to the sports move he failed to pull off earlier, which I guess works for kiddies.

 

A combination of good + evil = good.

I presume you're talking about the fusion of Takanuva and Makuta agreeing to open the way to Metru Nui. But this was brought up and debunked earlier -- Makuta had evil motives for letting them back now too, as he needed that for the Plan. Takanuva even vaguely suspected this later in one of the books before the takeover -- hints of Makuta's thoughts he experienced during the fusion. Really it was evil and good agreeing on a particular action.

[N.S.M.8]

 

 

Makuta suddenly feels like playing fair and decides to let his faith hang on a kohlii match, instead of crushing Takanuva then and there.

Most people generally agree with this, but FTR, it isn't really sudden, and it was at least psychologically reasonable; it was a way to mock Takanuva. Of course, it was really done because the moviemakers wanted to do the typical callback to the sports move he failed to pull off earlier, which I guess works for kiddies. 

I always assumed that this was unplanned on Makuta's part.  In my interpretation, even though most of his defeats were planned, he truly intended to stop the coming of the Toa of Light and to fake his defeat at the hands of the Toa Nuva. (I think Greg confirmed that part)  I think that when Takua became a toa, Makuta felt legitimately threatened by a toa of light (Mutran confirms that such a toa is the one thing a Makuta fears), and challenged him to a kohlii match so that he could lose without being harmed.  

[Tattorack]

Some parts of your latest list are unclear -- what's the "that" in #3, for example?

 

Well, Onua "reminded" Pohatu in the comic that Onewa warned Pohatu for watching out where he's dashing to, especially with Onua around he added in later.

 

No, they weren't reprogrammed by Matoran, if that's what you meant, certainly not "fully" -- they just accepted simple commands since their Krana were off (they already were programmed to do that). And that's the Bohrok, probably not the Va (Va don't use Krana). Also, defense against what?

 

Against anything. Gaurds still gaurded no? It would be handy to have a few drones as backup. Tahu used them later on afterall.

 

Oddly this one keeps coming up. I guess maybe people are confusing it with the Ignika -- the Avohkii doesn't have any likes, as it's not alive. It had no destination either. Rather, the Matoran were trying to search for a Seventh Toa. This was made clear in the movie. You don't do a search by going right to a particular location. That was all about giving Takua time to think and admit what he was in denial about -- that it was him (and he wasn't at some destination... true, he would later need to go to Kini-Nui to get to the Makuta, but he didn't need to be there to transform).

 

I was being sarcastic . I wasn't actually stating the Ahvoki had a mind of its own. But Vakama told them to follow the direction the mask was shining in, and that brought them all over the island contenant.

 

I haven't seen this misconception in a while, but basically, "Unity" does not mean "always be in the same physical place." It refers to teamwork and harmony. Different members of a team can go to different locations if the situation calls for it, and that can be part of unity. What it means is more psychological than that -- as in, don't be opposed to one another and don't spurn working together if the situation calls for it like some of the Toa Mata did at first after their memory loss. In that case, since there was only material to make one Ussanui, requiring the others to go with him would have slowed him down.

 

 In the movie we see them simply standing around at the entrance of Kini Nui, then later on just standing by as spectators to the kohlii match.

Thats not exactly being somewhere else doing something helpful.

 

Most people generally agree with this, but FTR, it isn't really sudden, and it was at least psychologically reasonable; it was a way to mock Takanuva. Of course, it was really done because the moviemakers wanted to do the typical callback to the sports move he failed to pull off earlier, which I guess works for kiddies.

 

I suspected as much.

But I would've placed it more as a post movie thing among his friends.

 

I presume you're talking about the fusion of Takanuva and Makuta agreeing to open the way to Metru Nui. But this was brought up and debunked earlier -- Makuta had evil motives for letting them back now too, as he needed that for the Plan. Takanuva even vaguely suspected this later in one of the books before the takeover -- hints of Makuta's thoughts he experienced during the fusion. Really it was evil and good agreeing on a particular action.

 

The Makuta, artists at taking punches that they could've easily avoided

Would've been a lot safer for Teridax (or was it Icarax at the time?) to make them believe he ran away in cowardice from the 7th Toa than go through this whole final-battle thing.

That or he must REALLY enjoy sports

[Master Inika]

About the bit with the Ussanui, this is a real sin (I think there was another topic about this): Takanuva says only he can go because there's only one Ussanui, but later, Hahli has brought everyone to Mangaia in, like, two minutes.

[bonesiii]

Against anything. Gaurds still gaurded no? It would be handy to have a few drones as backup. Tahu used them later on afterall.

Just standing around guarding against nothing wouldn't really be a wise use of time. The Bohrok were assigned to undo the damage they did. That was the task best suited to taking simple commands, and that they did. They wouldn't really make good guards, except against Rahi which would be too dumb to give conflicting commands, but the Rahi threat was over. And how do you know they didn't have some of them assigned to guard the villages if they did feel there was a need? (But it seems unlikely -- they knew of no threats now.)

 

But Vakama told them to follow the direction the mask was shining in, and that brought them all over the island contenant.

As an aside, technically, island and continent are meant to not go together. (Although it was really big.)

 

Anyways, I figured you'd bring that up, but you do realize he wasn't being literal, right? That light wasn't directing them toward Kini-Nui; again, there was no "destination." Kini-Nui just happened to be where Takua finally realized the truth.

 

In the movie we see them simply standing around at the entrance of Kini Nui, then later on just standing by as spectators to the kohlii match.

Thats not exactly being somewhere else doing something helpful.

There was nothing they could do at that point. Keep in mind they'd tried to defeat him before and now knew it had no lasting effects. The point was that a Toa of Light was needed to counter the Master of Shadows, and they understood this. Unity doesn't require you always being doing something either -- but when the situation calls for it, you work together. It didn't call for it here.

 

Would've been a lot safer for Teridax (or was it Icarax at the time?) to make them believe he ran away in cowardice from the 7th Toa than go through this whole final-battle thing.

What do you mean about Icarax?

 

I'd think that would actually be a lot riskier to the plan. Wouldn't you get a little suspicious if victory was that easy? Like maybe the Makuta wants you to be doing what you're doing?

[fishers64]

Also, may I point out that if the Nuva joined Takanuva in that battle, they could have protocaged Makuta again. While they didn't know that, Makuta didn't know they didn't know, hence the kohlii match fakery? He sort of had to make it look like Taka won on his own so they wouldn't think of that option. 

 

Although that could count as a "Turaga mistake" seeing as if the Toa Nuva did know, they could have avoided all sorts of other trouble...but then again, Mata Nui could have died with no Teridax to delay them, etc...*insert alt. universe reasoning here*

[bonesiii]

I figured somebody would bring up protocaging next. Problem is, the Nuva just used that, and now they know Makuta was awake and probably watching. They don't know, of course, that he was already protocaged once, but either way, it would be reasonable for them to assume he would make sure that tactic wouldn't work on him. More likely he would kill one of them (or two) to prevent it if they made it look like they were about to do it (not really likely but they might have thought so). And/or teleport them away, or himself out of the way, etc. (since they could have also concluded that he was the one with the power of teleportation after his supposed, now revealed to be faked, defeat after the first battle).

Edited June 28, 2014 by bonesiii