The main issue with your theory is that what happens if you die in one universe or were simply never born?

The latter easy – if you were never born, then no part of your mind is allocated there. All of your selves are born at the same time, thus, so are all portions of mind. No new mind allocations can be forged after your time of birth. Thus, you cannot travel to a universe where you were never born. Also, on more of a side note, I consider that in a universe where your parents decide to put off having you, then when you are born, though that child may bear your same name, it isn’t really an alternate you, but a new individual altogether.

 

If one of your alternate selves dies, then all that happens is their mind becomes either locked in that universe’s parameter, believing itself to be dead, or reallocates to another or all alternate selves. This also means that you can no longer travel to the universe after the point where your alternate self there dies.

Well that kind of limits your ability to time travel, then. My model allows you to go beyond the constraints of your own existence.

Yes, but apparently you missed the part later on where I discuss diving further than just into the full trans-dimensional personal unconscious and into the human collective unconscious . Once you access that, you essentially gain omnipotence in all dimensions. Omnipotence doesn’t seem very limited to me… quite the opposite, actually.

Basically I just don't think the human mind is complicated enough to start making parallel universes, and neither do I think it's relevant, because Spirit said as soon as you arrive in your time machine it makes a new universe, and that's the problem solved without needing to get philosophical about it.

… ‘Kay, still not 100% sure what you’re getting at, but who said that creating a parallel universe was complicated/difficult? It’s as easy as drawing a diamond on a flowchart . And technically, no, you don’t need to dive into the philosophy of it all, but the philosophy is half the fun! Apparently you don’t like fun .

Adieu,

- MechaFizz

… ‘Kay, still not 100% sure what you’re getting at, but who said that creating a parallel universe was complicated/difficult? It’s as easy as drawing a diamond on a flowchart . And technically, no, you don’t need to dive into the philosophy of it all, but the philosophy is half the fun! Apparently you don’t like fun .

 

Adieu,

- MechaFizz

well, basically the brain is a physical system and anything it does is a reaction to what happened before, so I don't think your decisions are any more likely to cause universes to branch off then say, the flip of a coin.

So I'm disagreeing with SPIRIT's statement "human decisions make parallel universes." and instead saying "time machines make parallel universes" which is a lot tidier.

I do like fun, I like fun a lot, and I also like philosophy, but only when it's relevant, otherwise you don't make any progress.

WOW... one thing though, instead of going to an alt timeline to save his wife, couldn't he just go to a an alt timeline where he made the decision to save his wife. and then kill or conivince alt self to switch places. It just seems like less trouble.

Also, I can't remember who, I think it was V, but you wrong. The laws of physics are just that, laws, and they CAN'T be broken.

well, basically the brain is a physical system and anything it does is a reaction to what happened before, so I don't think your decisions are any more likely to cause universes to branch off then say, the flip of a coin.

So I'm disagreeing with SPIRIT's statement "human decisions make parallel universes." and instead saying "time machines make parallel universes" which is a lot tidier.

Okay, so basically you’re saying that free-will doesn’t exist, like Brickthing said. I’m sorry, but I find that hard to believe. Even if human behavior can be proven highly predictable, I think we still have the overriding ability to decide. Additionally, isn’t saying that time machines create parallel universes and not human choices create a paradox? In this model, the time machine basically becomes a “free-will machine”. This would also mean that whether or not a time machine is to actually come into existence is already predetermined. Likewise, if your choice was actually a predictable thing, then couldn’t you predict your own future, find something unpleasant/unfortunate/tragic that you’d rather not experience, then change your decision accordingly? – assuming you could actually gather all the necessary information, of course. It would be extremely difficult, but possible, I believe.

If true, independent decision did not exist, then everything that has ever occurred was inevitable – everything, both wars and the latest fashion trends. I personally find that depressing. I’m adamant in my belief that humans can make their own decisions, and I’m sure you’re the same in your belief, so no matter what you or I say, neither one of us will likely be persuaded anytime soon, thus I choose to forfeit.

I do like fun, I like fun a lot, and I also like philosophy, but only when it's relevant, otherwise you don't make any progress.

Sorry, I was only joking by that last statement – didn’t mean anything by it :blush:

WOW... one thing though, instead of going to an alt timeline to save his wife, couldn't he just go to a an alt timeline where he made the decision to save his wife. and then kill or conivince alt self to switch places. It just seems like less trouble.

 

Also, I can't remember who, I think it was V, but you wrong. The laws of physics are just that, laws, and they CAN'T be broken.

Well, the question is, was it a choice whether or not he saved his wife in the first place? If he was miles away, then not much he could do about it at the time, so no branch dimension where that scenario occurred. It’s possible that there could be timelines where things played out differently and his wife did live or survived but was crippled, though.

Then again, there’s the question of exactly how soon alternate timelines form from the time of the decision. Do they happen immediately when they pop into your head, or do they only form once the first action of the decision is executed, as you could easily change your choice up until that point? If the former, then there is already a dimension where you chose to go back and save your wife by the time you stepped in your time machine, thus allowing you to go straight to that dimension. On the other hand, the logic behind that is even messier.

And on the laws of physics, taking another’s life is against the law in most societies, but people still break that law . I think we can manage to find a way around the ones that govern our universe eventually.

Adieu,

- MechaFizz

Well, I know a bit about time paradoxes, mostly from reading fantasy and science fiction books.

Artemis Fowl made a very good point in Artemis Fowl and the Time Paradox. Basically, he pointed out that you couldn't shift time. Why? Because of the time-traveller's past. For example, if I set out into the past to stop potatoes being discovered, chances are that my actions would lead to it's discovery because I remembered eating potatoes in the past. Argh, that didn't make too much sense, so I'll quote it from the book.

Artemis smiled mirthlessly. 'Ah yes, the trusty time paradox. If I go back in time and kill my grandfather, I will cease to exist? I believe, as Gorben and Berndt did, that any repercussions are already being felt. We can only change the future, not the past or present. If I go back, then I have already been back.'

... Yeah. Pretty smart for a kid his age. Anyway, he raises a good argument. Though, SPIRIT's idea is actually quite close to this, and original, too.

Zippy: TOL'ning

Good to see some people are as smart as I am. As my teacher used to say, humor is an intelligent behavior.

Now, assuming we have free will, that means that apart from the choices we make, all things that happen in the universe are inevitable and governed by fate: a domino effect throughout the universe that began since the dawn of time.

Being the physics nerd that I am, I had to respond.

You forget quantum mechanics. According to that, on the Planck scale, things happen at random, and electrons can jump around through space, appear, and disappear at random.

And besides that, the actions in our brain have to be caused by something. Everything is subject to causality. So every thing you do, and every choice you make, is governed by the natural laws of the universe.

Now, assuming we have free will, that means that apart from the choices we make, all things that happen in the universe are inevitable and governed by fate: a domino effect throughout the universe that began since the dawn of time.

 

Being the physics nerd that I am, I had to respond.

You forget quantum mechanics. According to that, on the Planck scale, things happen at random, and electrons can jump around through space, appear, and disappear at random.

 

And besides that, the actions in our brain have to be caused by something. Everything is subject to causality. So every thing you do, and every choice you make, is governed by the natural laws of the universe.

1) Yes, as isolated instances they are random, but using a knowledge of every electron in the universe, you could theoretically predict with certainty where they will and will not appear (since no to electrons can inhabit the same point in space at the same time and also these jumps can be affected by a variety of factors).

2) Well, if that's the case, then we're nothing but a series of random electronic impulses that give semblance of being in a pattern. Therefore, we have no control over our actions; Jimmy had no choice in whether or not he wanted to kill Phil, it was outside of his control because he's just directed by the laws of the universe. Let's not punish him and let him go free.

The laws of our society are based on the idea that we have free will and the ability to competently choose between right and wrong. If we're nothing but random electric signals, then what's the point of doing anything? That's alright, I can mug this old man. I was going to do it anyway. I have no control over my actions. Granted, our choices may be influenced by certain things, but if we don't have the final decision in the matter, we're not really alive, we're just robots.

Also keep in mind, science doesn't know everything. After all, 96% of all reality can't be detected (Dark Energy and Dark Matter). It seems a little foolish to use 4% of reality as your basis for understanding how things work rather than opening your mind to other possibilities.