I completely agree

It waltzed away from fantasy and tribal mysticism and instead transformed to sci-fi superheroics.

Reading that right there grabs my heart and squeezes and twists it like an orange ripe for juicing.

Way to remind me how awesome it was back then, before the complicated storylines and time travel and alt dimensions and all that jazz. <3

"Average Joe?" Forgive me, but in my 20 years of life and immersion into various forms of fiction, not once have I found a villain that lives up to what Makuta turned out to be over the years of BIONICLE.

He turned out to just be one guy in a whole race of other guys just like him. Not all that interesting or unique in the end, despite having a nice personality still. : /

I really couldn't have cared less about that. Very rarely are villains one-of-a-kind in their species, so it didn't really bother me.

The point is that he was originally presented as a nigh-omniscient evil spirit, but just turned out to be a normal bloke who was power-hungry, ultimately. Which may not disappoint you, but really took something away for me.

The point I'm getting at is that Bionicle changed. Maybe you like its new form better, but I sure don't. The thing was, I had thought that it was I who changed, and that Bionicle had stayed the same. But I've come to the conclusion that that's not really true: Bionicle did, empirically change, and as I said the difference between the original MNOLG/flash episodes and new story speaks for itself. I feel.

You're such an old fogey *hugs*

Believe it or not, I ventured through the episodes myself sometime last year and got a significantly different impression. To me, the animations looked choppy and cheaply made, and while the story and dialogue were awesome, the artwork and animation took the enjoyment out of watching the episodes for nostalgia's sake. In all fairness though, this is likely because I myself took apart those episodes in order to make flash movies of my own -- so the mystery of how they created those movies were gone.

I consider myself an oddball since my interest in the storyline never really changed through all 9 years; I was never deeply invested in it. The beginning years felt too foreign to me and the later years had less characterization and less engaging dialogue, making the story as a whole less interesting (I only stared caring in 2005 when I could no longer buy sets for myself and gave up on LEGO ever releasing a decent game to play).

I think we can both agree that the later years (2006 - 2010 most definitely) would've been much better had they simply maintained the quality of the dialogue and characterization.

You're such an old fogey *hugs*

 

Believe it or not, I ventured through the episodes myself sometime last year and got a significantly different impression. To me, the animations looked choppy and cheaply made, and while the story and dialogue were awesome, the artwork and animation took the enjoyment out of watching the episodes for nostalgia's sake. In all fairness though, this is likely because I myself took apart those episodes in order to make flash movies of my own -- so the mystery of how they created those movies were gone.

 

I consider myself an oddball since my interest in the storyline never really changed through all 9 years; I was never deeply invested in it. The beginning years felt too foreign to me and the later years had less characterization and less engaging dialogue, making the story as a whole less interesting (I only stared caring in 2005 when I could no longer buy sets for myself and gave up on LEGO ever releasing a decent game to play).

 

I think we can both agree that the later years (2006 - 2010 most definitely) would've been much better had they simply maintained the quality of the dialogue and characterization.

*hugs back* Yeah, that's very much it. Although I'm also miffed about losing the tribal mysticism, because that was so large a part of what was appealing about Bionicle. But if they had kept the strong characterizations and good dialogue - the good storytelling, really (which, like you said, was impressive and great to you even though you found the animation lacking), I probably would have enjoyed the later years much more, even with the abandonment of the original feel.

I agree with this entry.

EDIT: Plus, now I realize why HF seems so hollow... Thanks Smeag, I was trying to put my finger on that since like ever. It doesn't have the mystery or the fantastical aspect.

I endorse this entry with all my heart. Which belongs to you already!

I am Snoopy82, and I approve the contents of this entry.

That totally explained it. By the end of Bionicle, I felt like something was missing, but couldn't really figure it out. You totally hit the nail on the head, though. Like, with a sledgehammer.

Bionicle was so interesting because it was brimful of heroes with mysterious powers and unknown pasts, and a dark and sinister being who could cause so much damage from his little hiding place, and a big tropical island with every climate imaginable, and armies of bug-like creatures that poured from the depths of the earth.

I suppose as some things got explained or ignored (sort of like LOST XD), it partly satisfied fans, but at the same time took away a lot of what originally attracted them. Makuta lost so much of his evil, omnipresent feeling when he had a name and a race, and when him being Mata Nui's brother was brushed aside as, "Oh, he was just being figurative and delusional."

Plus, the characters we originally started with were left behind, then brought back, then left behind, until there were so many characters in so many different universes that, by 2009, (speaking only for myself here) I was having a hard time keeping track of who was evil and if they even were evil and what they looked like and whether they had appeared previously in the storyline. I never did properly learn the names of those Glatorian... sorry, Glatorian...

So the point of all this is to give you a huge wall of text explaining how you're right. XP

Turakii

If I didn't agree with what you're saying I would write a wall of text to prove you wrong, but I'd like to point out that I can't prove you wrong. You've hit the nail on the head regarding how BIONICLE has changed since 2001-2003, but it's only shifted style and genres to keep up with what kids of that year are interested in. In 2006 kids liked rap and ganster stuff, so (tragically) that was reflected in the Piraka.

Whether BIONICLE is more awesome and original now or then is personal opinion. Sure the characterization and dialogue was better then, but the sets, pieces and online content (excluding the MNOLG) in general are far superior today, so it depends on what matters most to you.

Coming from the part of the world where 2001-2003 BIONICLE ideas were drawn from, I personally didn't find those years as incredibly original as you probably did, and I've always found fascinating parts in each year of BIONICLE, so I don't think the theme has risen or dropped in awesomeness much since 2001.

I think Tolkien said it best. Basically that mystic feeling was never lost, it just wasn't as blunt as the early years. For example: yeah, Mata Nui is a giant robot, but a giant robot that houses an immortal spirit; an immortal spirit whose destiny was to heal a planet, that was shattered by a sapient element, which was basically life incarnate: ever-changing, unpredictable, and often dangerous.

Also, how is a generic Sauron ripoff better than a extremely well thought out, deeply characterized villain?

I think Tolkien said it best. Basically that mystic feeling was never lost, it just wasn't as blunt as the early years. For example: yeah, Mata Nui is a giant robot, but a giant robot that houses an immortal spirit; an immortal spirit whose destiny was to heal a planet, that was shattered by a sapient element, which was basically life incarnate: ever-changing, unpredictable, and often dangerous.

 

Also, how is a generic Sauron ripoff better than a extremely well thought out, deeply characterized villain?

>>"I know I'll probably get a ton of people in here who will write huge walls of text explaining how I'm wrong, and the Bionicle story just got better and better, and that I'm inferior because my opinion is different, or whatever. But that's okay - I think comparing these episodes to the books and comics and movies of the later years really speaks for itself."

I predicted correctly, woo. But BrickThing gets it (BrickThing is a smart guy) - there's nothing to prove wrong here. And I've got no problem with people liking the later days of Bionicle better than the early days. I'm just noting that I've come to realize that it was actually Bionicle that changed, moving away from what I liked about it (rather than me just outgrowing it, as I'd originally surmised).

Also, I can't think of a Sauron ripoff in any of Bionicle (was there one in the later years that I missed?), and the only 'characterized' villain I can think of is Makuta, starting with Comic #3 and his appearance at the end of MNOLG. He was one of the few people to retain generally good characterization throughout the series (and stay true to his established personality - I think he was the only one that did that, really). Although as I mentioned I am saddened by the fact that they ended up making him just a normal dude.

>>"I know I'll probably get a ton of people in here who will write huge walls of text explaining how I'm wrong, and the Bionicle story just got better and better, and that I'm inferior because my opinion is different, or whatever. But that's okay - I think comparing these episodes to the books and comics and movies of the later years really speaks for itself."

I don't think I said either of those things... but whatever...

I'm just noting that I've come to realize that it was actually Bionicle that changed, moving away from what I liked about it (rather than me just outgrowing it, as I'd originally surmised).

Yes, of course it changed, stagnation is bad. I'm just saying that the whole sense of a huge, epic legend was still very much alive, it was just in the background now. Just look at the cover art of the potential GN#10, the CGI of the Makuta and Mata Nui robots standing off, or even the Mata Nui Saga art; those all have that same sense of awe that the early years had.

Also, I can't think of a Sauron ripoff in any of Bionicle (was there one in the later years that I missed?), and the only 'characterized' villain I can think of is Makuta, starting with Comic #3 and his appearance at the end of MNOLG. He was one of the few people to retain generally good characterization throughout the series (and stay true to his established personality - I think he was the only one that did that, really). Although as I mentioned I am saddened by the fact that they ended up making him just a normal dude.

I was actually referring to Makuta. In the early years he was nothing but a generic Sauron ripoff (omnipresence, seemingly limitless power). There was also no real motive behind what Makuta was doing, other than because he was the villain. It wasn't until '05 (Time Trap, specifically) that Makuta got any sort of real characterization.

I often see people bring up the Kraata list as part of what destroyed Makuta's mystique, by limiting his power to a numbered list. But those were only the powers that Greg cared to reveal at the time. Heck, in Makuta's very next appearance (LoMN) we saw three brand new powers that were never mentioned before: the Shadow Hand, the ability to absorb mass, and the ability to control Protodermis. So obviously Makuta had more powers than that list.

And I really don't understand why "making him an average dude" is such a bad thing, some of the greatest villains in storytelling history were just "average dudes". That just makes them cooler in my opinion, because it adds to their character. Already having limitless power, and using it to get limitless power, is just redundant and pointless.

There was also no real motive behind what Makuta was doing,

We had Makuta's motivation from the very beginning- he was jealous of his brother's (Mata Nui) recognition and fame amongst the Tohunga. He wanted their worship and respect too. That's one of the very first things Bionicle ever told us...

Silly Primis.

You have different tastes than I (and most of the people commenting here) do.

What you think is good I think is yucky. And vice-versa.

And that's okay, so trying to argue your tastes against mine makes you look silly.

It's also not the point of this entry at all.

So yay!

This entry is everything (if not more) that I've always tried to explain and put into words about BIONICLE....

No matter how much Greg F says that BIONICLE was the same and never changed from year one, LEGO originally planned for the story to be much more mystical, mysterious, and, for lack of a better term, tribal. But Greg wanted it to be brought more down to Earth and relate more. Mata Nui was just ruined for me, I don't care whether the storyline was still good or not, they made such a change in focus in the series it kinda lost what had originally attracted me to BIONICLE.

One thing that always bothered me I think was the fact that Greg wanted to avoid spiritual and mystical powerful beings so much that I think that's what ruined Mata Nui and Makuta (who by the way originally started out as "great" spirit people) by just making them people who were created with big responsibilities...and suddenly made you wonder....why on Earth did the matoran ever treat these people the way they did in the first place?

When the series just left the original Toa after so much work put into building their characters and me really starting to love and enjoy their characters, that was a sad time for me. I mean I now still enjoy the Metru as BIONICLE's second best years...but I think if they wouldn't have done that and kept switching heroes every couple years, which ended BIONICLE ever making any good character development again, it would've been better.

Yeah anyway, I know a lot of that is just my opinion, but reading the entry just just made me remember the good times.

Also just ending with a cancelation...just made it worse.....you could just feel the rushed ending in the comics and with the movie being originally 3 parts cut off with no ending. Though I think the movie was way to corny even for BIONICLE anyway....

I shall be on my way now before I make anything else to argue about.

2001-2003 all the way.

-Jordboy1

You are so right, Smeag!

I'm not saying that the rest of Bionicle was junk, but the Bohrok Episodes and MNOLG where the best ever. The only thing that could really compete with them would be the early comics (01-02).

Personally I was never a fan of early years, nor have I seen the appeal that so many people like about those years. But then again, that's because I am more of Science Fiction fan than a Fantasy Fan.

Plus, I could never play either of the MNOLGs at the time, so I really never experienced one of main reasons that people here are so crazy about. Admittedly, I did try to play MNOLG in late years when LEGO release it for download on their site. But it didn't really interested me and kind of bored me than anything else. *shrugs*

But anyway, during those years (AKA 2001-2002), I pay very little attention to the story going on and was mainly just a causal fan that brought a few sets like Pohatu Mata and Bohrok (I will admit, if I could go back in time, I would totally buy Bahrag, Exo-Toa, and some of 2001 Rahi sets since they were great builds that I would probably crave more than anything else from LEGO today. Of course, I would also get the Titan sets that I never got in 2005 and 2007 as they were just plain win too.).

It wasn't until early 2003, when the books started coming out, that I start taking an interest in the story and felt in love with as it went on. To me at least, the story got better as it went on and I generally enjoyed everything that Greg deliver us, even stuff that didn't sit well with me at first such as MU=MN business (Which I now applauded as brilliant plot twist and have grown to like the very idea of it surprisingly.).

Of course, there are some stuffs that I just don't plain like such as removal of gears from sets (This annoyed me to a great degree since I loved the gear functions of the sets and it was actually what attract me the most to it.), Bohrok being former Av-Matoran (While I like answers to mysteries as much as the next person, this one takes the cake as being the most disturbing answer ever to a mystery and probably would of been best to have just to left it unanswered.), The Legend Reborn (I hate the set like appearances of the characters and it literally destroyed Tuma's character from the Empire of the Skrall.), etc.

But eh, its all a matter of opinion. Everyone views things differently and I am perfectly fine with you (And most of BZPower, judging from my daily observations) viewing 2001-2003 as the best years. I was just making this comment to offer my perspective of things, not to try and change people's opinions or anything. So feel free to ignore this, if you want. But as for me, I viewed years 2004 through the present as the best years.

I loved the old flash animations =D That style of vector graphics is probably the best way to animate the characters (I mean, look at the first three movies!). They really should have made more. They were excellent.

Only thing that annoyed me was the music being really badly edited, with the really rough looping.

MNOLG was the best BIONICLE game. No question.

There was also no real motive behind what Makuta was doing,

We had Makuta's motivation from the very beginning- he was jealous of his brother's (Mata Nui) recognition and fame amongst the Tohunga. He wanted their worship and respect too. That's one of the very first things Bionicle ever told us...

Oh yeah, I forgot about that... my mistake.

Silly Primis.

You have different tastes than I (and most of the people commenting here) do.

What you think is good I think is yucky. And vice-versa.

And that's okay, so trying to argue your tastes against mine makes you look silly.

It's also not the point of this entry at all.

So yay!

...I was just trying to have an intelligent discussion.

I'm not arguing over whose tastes are better, please stop saying that.

No matter how much Greg F says that BIONICLE was the same and never changed from year one, LEGO originally planned for the story to be much more mystical, mysterious, and, for lack of a better term, tribal. But Greg wanted it to be brought more down to Earth and relate more. Mata Nui was just ruined for me, I don't care whether the storyline was still good or not, they made such a change in focus in the series it kinda lost what had originally attracted me to BIONICLE.

One thing that always bothered me I think was the fact that Greg wanted to avoid spiritual and mystical powerful beings so much that I think that's what ruined Mata Nui and Makuta (who by the way originally started out as "great" spirit people) by just making them people who were created with big responsibilities...and suddenly made you wonder....why on Earth did the matoran ever treat these people the way they did in the first place?

When the series just left the original Toa after so much work put into building their characters and me really starting to love and enjoy their characters, that was a sad time for me. I mean I now still enjoy the Metru as BIONICLE's second best years...but I think if they wouldn't have done that and kept switching heroes every couple years, which ended BIONICLE ever making any good character development again, it would've been better.

Okay, that is a complete and utter lie, Greg has always said the exact opposite. BIONICLE was always intended to go in this direction, regardless of whether he was writing it or not. Greg does not have complete control over the story, he writes what LEGO tells him to write. See this topic.

Primis. Chill.

The point of this entry is just saying Bionicle changed and we liked its earlier incarnation better. Personally. That's all.

You disagree. And we're totally cool with that! I'm really happy you liked the later years of Bionicle better - good for you! I think they're awful, but that's totally just my opinion. I just found the tribal mysticism a lot more appealing than the sci-fi superheroics (and I thought the storytelling/dialogue/characterization was much better, as BrickThing noted). But you prefer the sci-fi - which is totally fine!

Check out BrickThing's and Jedi Master J's posts; they're thoughtful and insightful viewpoints at the opposite end of the spectrum from me, having intelligent discussion about the topic at hand.