Toatapio Nuva

IC Kavala

(Dark Walks):

"So, when are we going to move?" Kavala asked, sounding annoyed. "I would prefer to do something productive rather than sit around."

I don't remember people theorizing that the Turaga were evil, but then again, I wasn't involved in the community back in '01–'03.

There were actually some topics like this on Bzpower back in the day. There were people who thought the Turaga were evil because of their secrets.

It's a shame the old forums are gone forever, I'd love to dig up some of those topics...

Oh, by the way, I noticed many people noticed that the Journey to One show will be released in March 4th. Bummer that it is not coming this month. Sorry.

It appears they decided to reschedule the release of Journey to One on my birthday to commemorate it.

How did they know?

Maybe getting one set from each G2 year. Not sure.

I really like Pohatu's mask, it resembles the original well and also retains the sort of Bionicle feel. I chose the same for 2016, though it was a tougher choice in that category.

What if the big secret is that there is no big secret? That would be surprising, though in a much less satisfying way.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case, but I hope it won't be...

Well said, Tyler. If there's one thing you've made clear, it's that the staff cares about the BZPRPG and will use the lessons learned from arcs 1 and 2 to make arc 3 the best one yet, which is more than any of us could ask for.

 

The pacing of this arc has been glacial for a reason, but that reason isn't that the arc is innately hard to pace - it's that it's gotten away from us a handful of times, and you have to understand that I personally don't really think you can be disappointed in the pacing without being disappointed in the organization. If you want to be disappointed in both, fine. Maybe that's on us, whether we have lives or not. I'm not going to pretend we couldn't have done it better in a few places. But of all the things you could blame the arc for, it's not (entirely) its fault that it's slow.

Fair enough. I guess what I was trying to say was that I'm not disappointed in the effort. Wrong choice of words.

 

I genuinely think that your memory of last arc may have dulled in the last few years.

This may be a good time to admit that at the end of arc 1, I was merely a passive bystander following the story, but not really participating in it. Perhaps that's why it felt different to me.   

 

the dream is that in the end we would have had a parallel to Mata Nui that people had a reason to care about.

The whole idea of Kentoku was very ambitious, since you had to create an entire culture from scratch for it... I think it has a lot of potential, but the best way to make it work would be to enable more fluent interaction with Kentoku and Mata Nui. In this arc, it took a very long time for even the first Dasaka to step foot in Ga-Koro, and to this day the two locations remain distant and separate. If the interaction had happened way earlier, the attachment to Kentoku may have grown faster and stronger.

A group of players which I was part of even sent an expedition from Mata Nui towards the direction of the archipelago (though for different reasons), only to be denied entry into Kentoku by the staff and eventually ignored for almost a year until all the characters slipped into irreversible inactivity. It might have been a smart move to allow these characters to find Kentoku, as it would surely have generated activity and interesting story material. It was obviously not part of the staff plan, but thinking about the potential advantages, I think it might have been worth it. This is just my thought, though, and I'm obviously not aware of all the reasons behind this.

 

This is fair too - this arc was objectively less stimulating than last arc, or the NBZP before it. I would be lying if I said I know exactly why, because on the surface Mata Nui has the same things to do that it always did, along with a few new updated takes on settings and topics in the wake of Makuta's fall.

I think it was mostly due to the lack of any specific collective goal. Arc 1 had Makuta as a common enemy to everyone on the island, except for those who specifically allied with him or remained neutral. Arc 2 was all about the aftereffects of Makuta being banished, but it felt like all direction was lost. The Piraka had a lot of potential to become great antagonists, but they just... didn't do much. Aside from a few individual cases, they've remained inactive, in the Vault.

I love the simplicity in these, and the fact that they provide us with more high quality versions of classic symbols. Well done!

Bad voice actor. All of the fights are too short, all villains were defeated in 1-HIT KO And Kulta fell them all 6 heroes in a single swing and they dont even use their weapons to block his attack and defend their masks .

It's like the Toa were over-leveled when they arrived, being able to one-shot all their enemies, but the "final boss" was suddenly at level 100... instant defeat!

 

I keep hearing that this arc is at its end, but it doesn't feel like it... with arc 1 you really knew when the endgame was on. This time, there doesn't seem to be much build-up (unless it's still on its way).

 

I hope the next arc maintains a better pace than this one.

 

With as much patience as I can muster, I have to say that I really don't think you're very aware of what a trial this arc has been to run. 

 

This arc started, almost three years ago at this point, with a story choice that was universally panned and generated enough ill will that there was a dedicated topic for BZPRPG feedback for the first time since I've played the game. And given that that is about seven years now, that means for the first time since the majority of current players have played the game, too. That story choice was aborted, and with it three months of gameplay, when the site was hacked and three months of posts vanished into thin air. 

 

After that we had to deal with a key player in the plot's constant disappearance and reappearance, the resignation of EW and the subsequent appointment of myself and Ghost, Nuju stepping down as Head GM, and yet more appearing/vanishing act. All of that adds up to about three staff members that stepped down from their previous roles over the course of (in the lifespan of a BZPRPG staff member's career) a very short span of time, and three staff members that were appointed to new positions. For these reasons, and others that the playerbase as a whole will never be privy to, the plot has had to undergo countless revisions both large and small.

 

I think that in light of that knowledge, and the number of people a good plot relies on to run, the fits and starts become much more easy to understand. But frankly, you're not really remembering 2012 correctly either. The buildup to the end of the plot in 2012 rested with the Wanderer's Company and their (in)famously long time gathering all of the Essence Stones. The buildup for the populace of the game as a whole didn't happen until a few weeks prior to the actual end.

 

This arc hasn't gone as smoothly as we would like, but the plot is far from done. The end of the Arc is approaching because most of the major movement rests with the final phase of the Arc. Something that we've been building up to in and of itself for a while, with the Pact taking control of Ko-Koro and Echelon forcefully taking all the knowledge Joske obtained during his stint in the Legend. The rest of the movement will come as soon as a specific trigger event occurs, and will come quite quickly when it arrives. I (and I think my fellow staff members would agree) that the endgame of this Arc, and the revelation of hints that have been dropping for three years, will be worth the wait.

 

I understand that there were some unexpected issues with running this RPG, and I'll hand it to the staff that they have managed to keep the game together well despite those things. It's not really the organization I'm disappointed in, rather it's the extremely slow pacing (also understandable). Perhaps in the next arc and any future arcs, one solution to keep the pacing more consistent would be to have less central plot characters and a more simple storyline altogether, to make it easier to manage. A simpler plot may be more engaging to the players themselves, as well. Arc 1 was based on conflict between light and shadow, while arc 2 was more complicated. I enjoy stories with moral ambiguity like this, but it's not quite as good at stimulating players.

The point is though, I respect the staff for what they do and have faith that the arc 2 finale will indeed be good, paving way for an arc 3 with hopefully better pacing.

 

Ko-Matoran use astrology and prophecies to predict the future. Kopaka has had the odd prophetic dream. Not as farfetched as you might think...

When did Kopaka ever have a vision of the future?

 

In Bionicle Chronicles #1: Tale of the Toa. It was the same vision Gali received in the comics, but Kopaka only experienced part of it cause he was fighting it or something like that.

I keep hearing that this arc is at its end, but it doesn't feel like it... with arc 1 you really knew when the endgame was on. This time, there doesn't seem to be much build-up (unless it's still on its way).

I hope the next arc maintains a better pace than this one.

I like it.

It's the quality of the story I'm worried about...

Once again the fandom proves that they are capable of bringing life and personality to locations that originally had none.

Great music, definitely adds that special something to the Okoto setting.

I bet most people who like them, do so mainly because they did Bionicle covers.

Isn't that enough of a reason to like them?

This reaction of mine against bringing Vezon into the BZPRPG scored 13 upvotes.

This one is second with 11 upvotes.

But you can help me get a more upvoted post by upvoting this one.

My profile picture is me. Nothing more, nothing less.

The BZPRPG news and discussion forum is a goldmine for baffling posts.

Back in 2003 and 2004 there used to be several topics asking about Voriki being the seventh Toa. I remember my first ever topic being about this, and me smartly declaring that Takanuva was the eighth and not the seventh Toa since Voriki was number 7... boy, I don't think I've ever been shot down quicker than back then.

And of course we've all occasionally encountered those certain individuals who speak of their opinions as the absolute truth, unintentionally making fools of themselves in the process.

I posted here just so that I could quickly see how far behind fishers I am.

 

Edit: I'm far behind.

Exactly what I'm doing here.

Really disappointed that it's just another "beat 'em up" game with no story content.

Hey guys.

 

 Finally the video is here. Sorry for the bad quality...now let's see if this works..

 

 Link: http://www.mediafire.com/watch/6gc84a3anc3kbf9/Bionicle.mp4

Amazing, thank you so much for making this available to us! It's always interesting to be able to look into the marketing aspect of Bionicle more, and it was kinda cool to get confirmation on the fact that Bionicle was Lego's most successful line at the time.

 

That it was an island full of personality and characters and a large backstory and history, rather than "okay so we're on an elemental pie and skull spiders are attacking so let's call upon the heroes so they can collect 2 sets of golden masks and awaken the mask maker" Also, we actually know what mata nui looks like as we were able to fully explore it, and it actually had real names and everything Okoto is just "region of fire, region of earth, etc." And then "the ancient city" it's all just a cheap storyline to mimic the old storyline claiming that the series is "rebooted"

 

Edit: at least you gotta catch all the differently colored masks which help you create characters and mocs or did we forget about that hmmm? Well this bionicle is a "gotta catch em all" of two different sets of golden masks and "elemental creatures" hmmmmmmmmmm....

Except that you could replace some words in your story summary and you would have the same story as 2001 Bionicle: "okay so we're on an elemental pie and skull spiders Rahi are attacking so let's call upon the heroes so they can collect 2 6 sets of normal masks to make golden masks and awaken the mask maker Great Spirit"

The point is, G2 carries on in the same spirit of G1 to me. It's a similar story and the point is to make new fans say "wow, this is cool!" while old fans say "this reminds me of G1. It's a little different, but I like the allusions and similar story". Remember, old fans also said "wow, this is cool!" in the first place.

As for the "cheapened story line", I would argue that Lego just thinks it will work better for kids now. G1 was "ancient mystery, tribal robots and complex lore", while G2 reminds me more of a comic book, for lack of a better term. It's not worse, it's just different.

 

The premise is similar, sure, but the main difference comes from the worldbuilding and feel of culture - G2 has displayed barely any so far, whereas G1 already had a strong sense of culture and mysticism in 2001, even though the story was simple.

 

 

In my opinion, Okoto is much more detailed and visually interesting than Mata Nui ever was.

 

Everyone has the right to their opinion of course, but... Mata Nui looks like a natural island with an exotic shape and, while it has six distinct elemental territories, they blend together much better than those of Okoto. Okoto looks like a lazily drawn hexagonal island with a mountain range that divides it neatly into six districts in such an unnatural way... I'm not saying Okoto is bad, but I would definitely call it uninspired, whereas Mata Nui clearly has a much more imaginative and aesthetically pleasing approach.

 

I don't think I can really argue the point about Mata Nui being better on purely technical aspects, but the unnatural look of Okoto is personally what I find so interesting about it. Mata Nui, though somewhat distinctive in its own right, always felt like 'Mysterious Fantasy Island #267: Lost: The Revengening' to me, whereas Okoto's odd design really sticks out. They could've easily made a smoother-flowing island and basically do Mata Nui all over again, but they went with something new, and each biome looks fantastic in its own right. Again, this is all personal opinion, and different people will like different things, the same way I like chocolate whereas my sister does not.

 

You sister doesn't like chocolate?!

Yeah, I will agree that Okoto is interesting, and it had clearly been inspired by some of the earlier concept art for Mata Nui. I'm disappointed with its exaggerated simplicity, but not its potential.

Comparing G2 Bionicle to Hero Factory isn't just stupid or unfair, it's downright dishonest. The only thing these two franchises have in common are the sets, and even those Bionicle did ten times better with. I don't even care if you like G1 better than G2 or whatever, everyone can have their own opinion, and I can see both sides of the issue. It's when they try to enforce that opinion by blatantly ignoring or disregarding the other side's points that really ticks me off.

I agree, 100%. Arguing about the superiority of G1 or G2 is one thing, but throwing Hero Factory in the mix is completely ignoring the fact that they're two entirely different LEGO lines, with Hero Fatory mainly serving as a placeholder till Bionicle could return. They're not interchangeable.

Some actual world building would be nice.

 

 

I find it much easier to believe Korgot is stronger than Kivoda than that Taipu is stronger than Macku.

 

Maybe that's true based on their appearances (supporting the fact that there's more emphasis on the sets and builds this time around), but we haven't seen either Korgot or Kivoda in the story. Like, ever unless you count those few seconds when they appeared in the webisodes. Taipu and Macku were definitely more fleshed-out characters and had a lot of personality from the get-go, thanks to the MNOG. Taipu didn't even have a set, and Macku wasn't special even though she had one, but they still had distinctive characters. None of the 2015 Protectors have that, not even Narmoto.

 

We've definitely seen BOTH of them in the story—just not in the animations. Korgot and Kivoda both appeared in both chapter books as well as in the graphic novel. It's debatable whether or not their characterization is as distinct and concrete as that of the MNOG Matoran (characterization being one of that game's strongest suits), but they haven't exactly been lacking for portrayals.

 

Good point, I forgot about those. I have neither so I can't really comment on the portrayal of the Protectors there. Speaking of which, I would still praise G1 over the fact that they provided characterization for the Matoran without needing to buy things like books or graphic novels, while none of the free content of G2 gave them personalities. Doesn't mean that the Protectors don't have characters at all, but it's kind of a hinderance that the occasional fan will never be able to see it.

In my opinion, Okoto is much more detailed and visually interesting than Mata Nui ever was.

Everyone has the right to their opinion of course, but... Mata Nui looks like a natural island with an exotic shape and, while it has six distinct elemental territories, they blend together much better than those of Okoto. Okoto looks like a lazily drawn hexagonal island with a mountain range that divides it neatly into six districts in such an unnatural way... I'm not saying Okoto is bad, but I would definitely call it uninspired, whereas Mata Nui clearly has a much more imaginative and aesthetically pleasing approach.

 

If G2 happened first I would still say Mata-nui was better. If y'all haven't noticed, nothing in this new bionicle is mind blowing, and there will not be a mind blowing ending, as the original bionicle had. And if they wanted to relaunch bionicle so badly then they knew they had a big legacy to live up to, and they've failed to deliver. For a 3 year reboot, they are certainly not delivering a vast and expansive story as the original had. The new story is heavily simplified for all the wrong reasons. Bionicle is more for young kids now than adult collectors. Shouldve known.

Exactly how is Mata Nui better? I'm not talking story or characters, tell me how the island itself is better. 'Cause they look the same to me.

 

Again, how do Mata Nui and Okoto look the same? They're completely different islands. The only similarity is the six districts. Which happen to be almost symmetrically divided in Okoto, but blend much better with Mata Nui.

I don't think the Protector's having the same mask is a major fault set-wise, as the sets themselves are still very well built, but it certainly takes away any personality they could've had. I feel like the real problem with G2 is the lack of world-building and storytelling, not the sets. Compared to 2001, Lego seems to put a lot more emphasis on the sets at the expense of the story.

Like Aanchir said, they're playing it safe - while G1 had a fantastic story, it was quite controversial at the time, and altogether a risk that tested the boundaries of Lego. After ending Bionicle G1, they experimented using the Hero Factory line and probably found out that the quality of the story isn't the main factor that makes kids buy the toys... or perhaps something of that sort. So now they're not really putting much thought into the story, but instead focus on the things that make the toys profitable.

This strategy won't give us a good story to follow, but it must give great profits to Lego... otherwise they wouldn't be doing it this way. The G2 story isn't bad per se, but there's just hardly any of it.

I find it much easier to believe Korgot is stronger than Kivoda than that Taipu is stronger than Macku.

Maybe that's true based on their appearances (supporting the fact that there's more emphasis on the sets and builds this time around), but we haven't seen either Korgot or Kivoda in the story. Like, ever unless you count those few seconds when they appeared in the webisodes. Taipu and Macku were definitely more fleshed-out characters and had a lot of personality from the get-go, thanks to the MNOG. Taipu didn't even have a set, and Macku wasn't special even though she had one, but they still had distinctive characters. None of the 2015 Protectors have that, not even Narmoto.