bonesiii

FTR, we've decided we'll use more than one name here. The best will be for the purpose we had in mind. A few others will be picked for some side characters.

Why do we report on the EM, and specifically the Cipher Chronicles, on BZPower's front page, even though, for example, it is non-canon? Why don't other fanfic works get frontpage recognition?

 

Well, part of this is easy to answer. The EM's content is usually added to via an official S&T series of contests, and for several years now, the administration's policy has been to advertise official BZPower contests on the frontpage, to encourage involvement. So just as a BBC, RPG, Art, or Library contest (among others) will be reported on the frontpage, the EM contests are as well.

That's an evasive answer, I think. Okay, so it gets reports on the front page because it has official contests. But you don't answer why the EM deserves official contests when other writings of other members don't.

 

~B~

I think that would be because the EM is an official part of BZPower. It's regulated by Staff and is meant to inspire and provoke discussion, which means it needs as much exposure as possible. Like bonesiii said, this isn't exclusive to the EM, of course. Single short stories or epics by individuals could do more inspiring than the whole season collection of Cipher Chronicles! So while other people certainly are just as deserving for this kind of advertising, the fact that the EM is official and regulated by Staff gives it special status.

 

Don't take this to say that I'm content for it to be that way. bones is right about there being the need for a system to give other writers more recognition. Perhaps after I've become more experienced as a leader of the EM, I could help construct this system.

 

And, in the spirit of the EM, input is always welcome.

 

By the way, I kept thinking 'European Union' when I saw 'EU.' Darn my obsession with politics.

Yeah, I hope something like that can get started sometime. Also, let's keep in mind two things:

1) Other writings do get official contests in the form of Epics contests, Short Stories contests, or the current ongoing Comedies Contest. There are also, in a sense, RPG contests, and of course, there are story-writing canonizing contests as well.

2) As far as I know, until last week, nobody had ever suggested some kind of frontpaging system/project/whatnot for other fanfics that aren't contest entries. So, walking away from this discussion, I think we've got a great suggestion we can take away, and hopefully something along those lines can happen. We'll see.

And would Hahli wings and Piraka feet count as "un-MOC-able?" (Another old MOC, but more recent)

 

And lastly, would Hagah shields count as un-MOC-able? Just want to get that out of the way.

1) Hahli wings, yes, I'd say.

2) Piraka feet, no, IMO. They were used as other things officially from the start, as I think I recall...

3) Sure.

I'm going to go ahead and deny that it's a camera. But that guess is also not entirely cold.

Happens for me, when my adrenaline is high enough. And yes, all the Dume stuff is connected.

What about Av-toran heads?

 

FenrakkRider

Those work.

@ guns -- I'd accept either launchers or the other things (I had meant those, not the launchers).

@ MOLtoran torso -- Yes, I'll accept that part. If only because I myself have had a lot of trouble using it.

@ Vahki heads -- sure.

@ I don't know if that's a question, but Rahkshi spines are fair game.

Now you've gone and done it. We'll have to change our name to BuZz Power.

Do Rahkshi shin pieces count?

 

And how about Roborider torsos? As in, I have a MoC with two side-by-side forming its torso.

Sorry I apparently missed this. No, I wouldn't count Rahkshi shin pieces.

I'm a little foggy on the Roborider torso thing, could I see a pic?

Would you consider a Metru Matoran torso to be an unMOCable piece?

It was used in several other ways officially, so no, I don't count that.

Alright, I'm finally entering one of your MOC contests. I've already got some nice, huge coming along...

 

EDIT: What about the orange leech holders that the '08 Makuta had?

 

-SK

Those count, yes.

Yes.

Oh, and do Metru torsos or canister tops count?

Sure.

I'll allow those pieces, I guess, Primus, but I meant the big gray chunk TL used in his MOC above your post (the one the arms connected to).

Just so you know, the pic for Haywire is wrong (I think): you have the tail picture given and then linked to. Presumably you wanted to use an image of the entire MOC, then only link to the tail one.

 

Anyway, all of the winners are great MOCs. Good job selecting those, and congrats to the creators of those MOCs!

 

~B~

Thanks for pointing that out; Haywire pic is fixed.

Sweet! This is actually my first contest I've won!

 

Thanks for the comments Bonesii. They make me feel good.

 

Also, that underwater picture looks so epic!

 

~U_K~

I'm glad you like that pic, heh. It wasn't easy to make (although it didn't really take that long).

I'm quite excited about Cap'n Gar-Korr, what with the sign language. I don't know how much the creator knows about sign language, so I will make this offer just in case: if you want to be able to describe his signing and be able to write with a good understanding of what sign language really involves, then don't hesitate to ask me. My first and third languages were Signed Exact English and American Sign Language respectively, so I have a lot of experience with the opposite ends of the "signing spectrum." SEE was invented by hearing people and thus is very artificial, but ASL evolved naturally in Deaf society. Perhaps Can'n Gar-Korr's sign language would be a bit in between since he invented it, but probably has been refining it over the years.

 

Really cool! I'm excited. And that's right, I don't think I actually made the connection between Caroha and the multitude of blue characters. Or maybe I did; can't remember well.

(FTR, the sign language idea was mine, added to the original bio.) Yeah, it's pretty obvious I love having all kinds of different languages or styles of language, so I thought this would be interesting. And yes, any insight you can give would be great; I don't actually know any sign language except yes and no, lol, so I'm venturing into uncharted waters for me, heh.

And just to confirm, yep, the commonality of blue is due to Caroha's role in the Event. (It might also be partly because chronoserum itself is blue, but not that I have planned.)

Wow. I totally didn't expect this to turn into a debate, it was just a spur of the moment "hey I don't like this" kind thing >>. Anyhoo, might as well address some stuff.

I was amused by those who said "the sky is falling" when TLC announced the suspension of BIONICLE production, but now I see just how right they all were.

 

If they really wanted "fan involvement" in the storyline then they would have created some sort of "lottery-selected rotating-membership council for input" instead of anointing a bunch of insiders.

~

Åusår

 

Well with the exception of one person, it does look like a team of yes-men. And people who are full of ulterior, hidden motives - they agreed just to get their own initiatives pushed through.

These are basically what I agree with.

The only way you could know what ET said (I bolded it) is if you were telepathic and prophetic. As far as insiders goes, this is why I gave the BZPower staff in general, who are not as active in S&T, a chance to be a part of the team. I only got two volunteers by the proposal, both of whom were okay with either being chosen, so I flipped a coin, and Sisen was chosen. In addition, we purposefully chose several non-staff members, just BZPers in general, so that this claim could especially not be said (so it's kind of strange that it's being said anyways ).

As for yes-men, it sounds a little, Dorek -- just being frank from what I have seen of your reactions to proposals in general -- as if what you're really saying is that we're not all no-men. I am not a yes-man, and I don't see that from anyone else on the team either. We are not as quick to make snap "no" judgements as some, but isn't that, objectively, a good thing? We need to be impartial; that's the whole point.

This is not meant as an insult towards you. I respect your opinions and frankly, if BS01 had chosen to majorly participate, I would have requested you be on the team. But that did not happen, so that is out of my hands. (This is why I am very glad Tilius is on the team; though I often disagree with him, I strongly respect his opinions and feel we do need people who are willing to focus on the possible cons of an idea perhaps more than others.)

Also, you guys need to keep in mind that this team would fail if we did not have people willing to do the work; thus a big reason for who was chosen was those that have demonstrated experience (for the reps of the major story groups, that is). So that, fact makes the "insider" charge difficult to get around anyways.

In short, I think it's unfair to lob paranoid accusations at us before you have even given us a chance. Is it not? (Speaking more to Ausar and a few others here; I have discussed this with ET mostly to my satisfaction already.)

Cutting down on the fan suggestions is FANTASTIC; that's pretty much the only aspect of the team I like.

What about the poll part? Making sure that fan suggestions actually do represent "fans" not just one fan? Not to mention the attractiveness of making Greg's job easier, since he has been so flooded lately.

A filter, in essence, for some of the more outlandish and ridiculous ideas that pop up from time to time. That's genius, and quite frankly, about time.

 

One of the issues I have, though, is the nature of the "filter" that this is going to be. I understand that a lot of these guys are smart, and know a stupid suggestion from one with merit. My worry is that they will be a little too hesitant to accept and too quick to reject.

Well, of course that is a valid concern, but that is why all decisions will be announced publicly, and all things we (and Greg) agree are worth considering will be polled. Any mistakes we make will have fair chance to be pointed out by anybody, whether on or off the team.

There have been some silly suggestions thrown out, and with this team, that suggestion rate is probably going to increase exponentially. With a lot of stupid suggestions coming their way, they're going to have to reject a lot of them. I'm afraid that, in the end, they're going to mechanically reject something that has potential, but isn't worked just right, discouraging people from sending in suggestions.

If that ever becomes an issue, I would label that burnout, and then the possibility of cycling members would be looked at. It's way too early to think about that at this point, and besides, the concern would be multiplicitously more true if it was all on Greg's shoulders.

This is something I don't have a problem with at all; I'm not a fan of all the random trivia that pops up as a result of canonizing.

Just to be clear, although I doubt for you I truly need to say this but for the sake of anybody reading, that is the sort of preferential bias this team will need to avoid.

However, if (an if, but a plausible one) this happens, that defeats the entire purpose of the team. It's supposed to work with the members, rather than being an inflexible barrier.

 

Which brings me to my complaint about the team choice itself. ET and Ausar have hit it right on the money. I'm not going to name names, but a common theme I'm noticing are self aggrandizing tendencies. I personally don't feel that these people are right for the job, and Ausars idea of a rotating council is a pretty good one.

Well, that is your character judgement of other people. I believe in seeing through people, but also giving everybody the benefit of the doubt, and like I've been saying, keeping Unity in mind. We have all made mistakes, you, ET, Ausar, and others criticizing the team all included, because we are all fallible humans. And that would be just as much an issue no matter who is on the team -- we ALL have good reasons not to do it, just as Greg himself makes mistakes. So if you're looking for perfection from an author, a team of "secretaries" (heh), or from fans in general, sorry, you're going to be disappointed every time.

The key is that we all can (and SHOULD) rise above our personal flaws and try at all times to do the right thing. I believe all of those who are on the team are capable of it and showcase it often. I'm not saying we won't make mistakes, but that is why there are systems of accountability built into how we are doing this.

I hope this has made my view on this clear.

The problem I have with NW being set on this other planet is that it has zero connection to Bionicle as we know it

The stated connection I read right in the intro to it, so I don't see how this could be true. We know Mata Nui visited other worlds, and learned things from them. What were some of those worlds, what could he have learned from them, and why? That has huge plot relevance.

Also, what other worlds might Makuta have conquered if Mata Nui had been unable to stop him?

This is the sort of hyperbole and "zeroizing" that makes these kinds of complaints dubious, IMO. Again, it sounds like what it really means is you simply don't like the style of the project, so you have not bothered to play Devil's Advocate and think of the connections it has? Especially since the one was stated right in the intro...

It would be like having a Star Wars story that had zero to do with Jedi, Sith, the Force, any galactic government or space travel.

If you applied the metaphor accurately, though, it would be a planet that had little knowledge of the galactic government, but that the galactic government had spied on and encountered, etc. Which is essentially the Star Trek Prime Directive. Some of the coolest episodes in the original series were when they were dealing with primitive cultures that their rules said "you can't tell them about space travel and all that".

For example, if you had one portal on one side of the world and another on the other side, would there be any delay?

Depends on the kind of portal. I have invented a kind with zero delay, but it's classified.

One other point I would like to make - there are two major things in comics that I can think of that I either have no interest in (Marvel's Ultimate books) or that I think are poorly executed (Grant Morrison's Batman work). I choose not to spend money or time on either. But can either really be said to be bad ideas?

 

I would have to say no, because both have resulted in great sales and lots of buzz for their respective companies. The fact that I personally dislike or have no interest in something does not make it a bad idea -- just an idea that does not resonate with me.

 

Each of these fan initiatives has a goal. You measure success by how well they meet that goal. And none of the goals include "please every member of BZP," because that is not possible to do. So before you condemn any of these initiatives, I think you need to ask yourself -- is this actually an idea that will not achieve its objectives, or is it simply any idea you personally don't find interesting?

Well, I was gonna say about the same thing but then you went and said it better. XD

I will say this, just to put it in my own words (and not only @ you, jimmy):

Think of it like shoe sizes. (No, not styles. Sizes. )

You might need a particular shoe size, but do you walk around in the shoe store insulting the shoes that are different sizes? "That shoe is silly because it's too small for me"?

If you did, people would worry about your sanity... to put it gently. Well, labeling entertainment projects things like "silly" just because they don't appeal to your tastes looks the same, yanno? Because taste is very similar to different sizes of feet, heh.

I think that's where a lot of the "complaining about complainers" lately is coming from -- not that we think you shouldn't have the right to complain (which would be self-contradictory), but that the particular route some of you have chosen to go on while complaining makes no sense. Like insulting shoes that aren't your size.

On the other hand, perhaps the problem is actually that you haven't given it a fair chance to begin with?

Maybe if you -did- try to get involved, you might find out you actually DO like the basic concept. I have done that myself several times, and surprised myself with how much I was able to enjoy when I just gave it a fair chance instead of deciding I wouldn't like it before I even tried it. ("Maybe" is the key word, though.)

Thanks for that wise advice, Greg. Or, as I have said a few times recently; one of the themes of Bionicle is Unity. As Bionicle fans, we have... *sorry for the pun * a duty to live up to that good example, IMO, or we will have apparently gained no benefit from the Bionicle story. It's like we're kinda going through the Toa Mata 2001 situation, and have yet to find the Unity of 03 and onward, heh. I just pray that we will get there.

For example -- not to argue for or against them, there have been debates over a particular Toa tool (this is just the example the person brought up to me when talking about this issue). It basically seems like a random choice for that Toa. But then, the Toa was also someone whose personality was not established either -- so it would be IMO unfair to judge it as not making sense. The fact that a Toa (hypothetically) chooses a particular type of Toa tool could speak to their personality, so perhaps by the very act of canonizing

This thought seems unfinished.

Lol, thanks; fixed.

I'm not really sure if this will count or not because I used the original rhotuka launcher to attatch it, so is this allright: picture

 

Thanks.

That's fine with me; you're using it as something other than a projectile, so yeah.

What about the green and white inika heads?

 

~U_K~

Yes; I said that:

Inika swords, torsos, heads

Would Rahkshi torso parts or Hordika lower arms count as UnMoCable parts?

Would a Rahkshi upper torso count?

 

-TLhikan

Rahkshi upper torso, yes. Other torso parts, I don't think so. Hordika lower arms, I'm going to have to say no, because they have been used at least two other ways in official sets, and I haven't gotten that impression from the forums either.

I want to see something made entirely of Kanoka disks and squid. ENTIRELY.

I have never wished that I had like, four hundred of those squid things more in my life than I do at this moment.

Indeed.

Woo, new info! I might be the only one here who's more interested in that than the contest. But that 'Competition' is ludicrous because it's so believable, wow. She must have a playful side we really haven't seen much of yet. And the Trickster's backstory sounds like it'll be really interesting...

Glad you found that info interesting.

Great idea for a contest. Seeing or inventing unusual ways to use pieces is my favourite part about MOCs. I'd like to see more focus on this aspect.

 

Although I haven't been into building too much lately, a few older MOCs of mine come to my mind, but most of them wouldn't fit in your story. Can I still enter them? I can do well without an appearance; showing my creativity is more important to me.

 

Would these pieces count as "unmocable"?

- Mahri canister frame

- Metru Nui Matoran torso (for non armour purposes)

- Mctoran pieces

1) Sure, you can enter ones that might not fit. Be aware that I reserve the right to try to find a way to make 'em fit if they win.

2) Yes.

3) I have to say no to the Metruan torso. It was used other ways officially often and I don't get the "unMOCable" vibe from people's comments about it.

4) Mctoran pieces -- sure, although the torso is debatable. I haven't noticed people saying that. But the feet, arms, and head, yeah.

Don't forget the rubber band holders. Those are difficult.

Granted.

Don't forget Metru bodies.

 

 

~SD~

Agreed.

Ghul entry Gallery (again, another one that has the torso at it's center. However, I still have this one together, so if you need proof, I'd be more than willing to take a photo of it)

 

And by "Karda Nui Makuta Wings" do you mean Bitil wings? Because if you do, I've got a few more entries too. But I think that's all of them for now.

1) Proof would be nice, yeah.

2) Bitil wings would work, yes.

BTW, Primus, you already entered the blue and red one in the Blue MOCs contest, if you've forgotten.

That's fine, ltt.

I write the emotes as I type.

For those of you wondering how big, I won't have time this week to find out, but you should be able to get a good idea by going to the page number listed for the art slot in question (the numbers to the left).

It's hard to pin it down exactly because PDF viewers are relative instead of absolute, at least the program I have, so it will depend on the user's screen, but a 1280ish screen is what I use. Also, we put the art into it when it's in a Microsoft Word type format, so that may help.

lewathetoa, for now, have a look at the Warzone clan logos page in the guide. The CEO pic would probably have to be about that small.