T.B.O.C

27 minutes ago, Nato G said:

Just FYI, resin prints and resin casts are two very different things. Resin prints are made in a 3D-printer using a digital file of the mask, and though they're definitely way better than filament ones, as you said, they'll still have visible layer lines and extrusions where the supports were attached.

Resin casts are created in a mould of the original piece, which is what Socketball does, creating a perfect smooth surface that matches the official parts. 

Ooh - nice catch. Hadn't realized I was using the wrong terminology there. Resin casts for sure! 

Go for casts. They're excellent, work for what most people want, and honestly are relatively affordable for what they are. I go for resin casts, since most filament based prints are gonna need more finishing to get into a nice smooth shape. Most masks I've gotten have been around the $15 mark - some custom painted, some cast in the correct colors, some unpainted for me to finish myself. There's also scores of 3D models for masks, so if you have them in mind you can get them typically. I've gotten official masks, and custom 3D prints for "canon" masks - such as the Mask of Creation, and the Great Kanohi worn by the Hagah, and recently even Helryx's mask.

Injection molding is not necessary, especially for display items. If you're interested though - several people already go through companies to do so. It's likely not worth your time or effort to navigate this yourself.

SocketBall is a great one, as many have said: though due to the limited nature of production, prints go fast (I managed to get their last few Rau's by waiting for them to drop LOL). Etsy is also full of people - the two sellers I prefer are there. I'm not sure if I'm allowed, but I do have recommendations on a few people I've gotten masks from. Primarily, this was for my Hagah, but I've also gotten some very nice ones: such as this Blue Rau for my Kotu.

Often - I think it's less a BIONICLE experience as much as it's a common dream format. Location you're relatively familiar with (store, in it's own dream form), buying something you like or desire, and something is weird with them. I had them during BIONICLE's release, and since. Often times nowadays it's that I'm finding bags of BIONICLE parts and I sort them out looking for individual parts or masks. I always think it's funny that I remember what I'm looking for still. I guess it is my brain, so the information is there...

Listing it on eBay would be good. I figure many people would be interested in it. I'd actually be curious if you had a price in mind - wouldn't mind getting my hands on it...

Are there other pictures of the bag? Just my guess, but Lego did release Service Packs from late 90s-2000s if I recall correctly. I don't recall if they're resealable ones, but it's possible this is one of those bags and just full of misprints.

However - all guesses. The misprints were parts produced for the first production run of the Kanohi Packs in Europe, it's possible they eventually just sorted out a number of them when they prepared more shipments and some of those bags eventually got out. A lot of test colors and moulds seem to have gotten out and are now resold for tons of money. Possibly related?

Usually in original boxes/canisters, disassembled. I've found issues with minor part breakage if assembled - but that's mostly due to how tempreature shifts work in my area (consistent temp is good for plastics, afaik). From there right now, I have them minorly bubble wrapped and in large storage boxes, moved off to a storage unit because I am woefully low on space. However - these are my main collection sets, and therefore I don't need them out to work on projects.

My other loose sets and parts are usually in plastic storage bins - lidded to keep off dust. I have one of those 64-shelf little plastic shelving things for organizing small and commonly used parts. Would like to get them all in there someday. Otherwise, plastic storage bins, plastic bags, and a couple of those BIONICLE tubs filled up with parts. A low wide bin has been good for searching through for parts - would recommend over some of the other options.

9 hours ago, Takanuva111 said:

Is this a toa Metru shoe clip? I’ve been wondering what this is. How rare is it?

Yep! As for rarity - unsure. I sure don't see them a lot, but I don't think they're especially valuable. I got my sealed set of 4 masks for around $25 if I recall?

Anyone notice Ignika and Toa Mata Nui prices slowly going down a bit? Seeing WAY more listings in the low $300s, dipping into high $200s. Waiting with bated breath to see if it keeps dipping. I got an entire Toa Mata Nui for around $40 minus the mask from an eBay auction, so a cheaper Ignika would be nice...

If only anyone ever sold the box and instructions!

On 9/5/2023 at 12:36 PM, Takanuva111 said:

How rare are silver masks from 2001? I have a silver pakari and want to know how rare it is. I also got my hands on a mask of time.

If you want to get technical, they're actually from 2002. Released in Krana packs, and for that reason are not considered rare. Gold ones have gotten a bit pricier, but it was sort of joked back in the day that you'd have a pile of spares to swap back in the day while hunting for the far more numerous Krana. More expensive than set masks, less expensive than any other collectible pack masks.

Still neat though. I think I have about 3 sets of each, mostly spares from buying Kanohi lots the past few years when I was still finishing my collection of them.

Prototypes - just coloration tests, but (nearly) one of a kind. Have seen someone with the same Zamor somehow... but either way, I do get messages occasionally asking if I'm selling the Pearl Dark Gray / Pearl Gold Strakk helmet 😋

Other than that... masks? Copper Komau (hardly consider it rare, but eh). "European misprints" - blue, red, white Rurus and a brown Matatu. Other than that, probably sets or little pieces of merchandise. Still have my Tahu Nuva sneakers, and I have a sealed pair of those Metru mask clips for the Toa Metru shoes (sadly do not have my Whenua Metru shoes...)

1 hour ago, LostHead said:

Even if it's not canon, I highly recommend the story on the site. I quite like what they have.

Agreed - it's been very nice so far! I check it every couple days during downtime at work and have been a fan of the writing. But yes - as others said, it's through Vision of the Great Beings and not canon. Cool that Farshtey is consulting with it - cool to know he approves, since he didn't have further planned.

I have more nostalgia and history with G1, but there's a lot of rough edges people smooth out remembering it tbh. I liked a lot of G2 better as like, playable action figures - never had problems posing, or creating cool displays with them. I thought there was some good modernization, though in many ways it just didn't last long enough to even see what an evolution in that line might look like.

It's kind of hard to compare in that way - is the extremely funded elaborately built 10-year toy line I played with and had great memories of as a child going to seem better to me? Yeah. I liked G2 though, despite some of it's drawbacks. It's rough to compared the two like they have equal footing.

4 hours ago, David Skyroller said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115899021580?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=919YQtElRyG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=w3NMvHySR-2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

That's the one! Up to $1.5K now, wow. 

It would be fundamentally useless from a narrative standpoint. If it's so far in the future that no one remembers, and it doesn't affect the plot or setting, there's no purpose. Making a connection to serve no purpose adds nothing to either world, in my opinion.

Again - no need for spam posting. Edit the original post with new information if you're adding on. This is otherwise qualified as spam. As ToaDume has also pointed out - this information is also already catalogued in more specific places. Bricklink keeps automatically updated price charting and has all known BIONICLE sets in it's inventory. Many other websites also perform this function.

Has no one mentioned the eBay lot with the White / Dark Blue Miru yet? It's in the mid $700s right now, but I was stunned to see it go up. In a lot with a bunch of other masks too. It'll be quite the nice lot for whoever gets it.

On 8/10/2023 at 5:58 AM, junglejunggames said:

It's been about 50/50 for me in terms of opening up protodermic nuva packs and either A) getting a protodermic nuva + a colored nuva or B) getting 2 colored nuvas, whether it be the boxed version or the plastic version.

In terms of ****** behavior by big collectors/sellers, a PA-based collector who lives about an hour from Philly bought about 1000 USD worth of stuff from BU, never received anything except for a customs note, then notified Cas what happened. Cas basically said "well you never paid for insurance so I can't do anything, but I'll give you a discount if you buy from me again." Eventually Cas stopped reading his messages/responding. Needless to say, the PA-based collector just filed a chargeback a few months later and got all his money back.

In South Korea, discontinued sets were relatively cheaper/easier to buy NIB from old toy stores up to about 2008, when the price gap between domestic Korean prices and US/EU prices became big enough for there to be a profit after taking into account tariffs and shipping costs. Korea being a small country made news travel fast and soon every dude with a little money to spare started buying up prices and applying the same price speculation/forecast models and algorithms to buying/selling bionicles. This led to a huge bubble where G1/G2 sets all got their prices jacked up (for example, a Inika Hahli being sold for $350+) but the bubble burst shortly after 2014 (I think). Prices are still high as ****** so most people just buy used bulk stock from their versions of craigslists OR pay a premium to buy from abroad.

There's still pockets of rare stuff to be found and bought at reasonable prices, though it's much harder than it used to be. I recently got a new/open box bohrok kal that had a WMKK/pouch/card all in mint condition which was pretty nice.

Also Kudos to Letagi for being a good sheriff lol.

Wow, I've always wondered if there's still undiscovered WMKK. Out of curiousity - priced like a regular sealed Bohrok-Kal, or did they charge accurately for the WMKK? Or any advice on potentially finding a WMKK....

(I kid mainly - lovely fantasy, but likely out of my budget)

On 8/10/2023 at 6:01 AM, junglejunggames said:

Not sure if it's the same thing, but I've seen at least one unboxing video of someone opening up the 2001 euro mask packs and getting an infected hau in it.

Yep, once they fixed those initial run production issues, Infected Hau's should have been the rare 73rd mask for all packs. Very first production run Euro/Non-US polybags only had Great Kanohi (minus clear and transparent neon orange Kau Kau) and Toa colored Ruru and Matatu. No Infected Hau, no Turaga colored masks, and those fun and wildly expensive Kau Kaus. Makes me wish I'd been around then to get them then!

Hey, congrats on the lot. I find buying lots is a better way of getting a fair amount of sets, particularly with how BIONICLE sets have been increasing in price in the secondary market. Goodwill lots vary for me - some are relatively nice, but most have a lot of visibility and a lot of harder to find stuff will be bid on fast. But sometimes, you get something rather nice! 

As for collection bragging - my recent stuff is as follows:

- Just finished my Kanohi Nuva collection (36 base masks). Very excited! Only missing Poisoned Hau Nuvas, and protodermic Pakari and Akaku Nuva.

- Got 2 Dark Bluish Gray Rhotuka. Wanted at least one, but having a second for my Bomonga Hagah will be nice too.

- Closing in on my Kuma-Nui and Tarakava Nui, just a few parts left. This'll leave me with basically a 100% 2001 collection. All sets (double besides Manas, too pricey to get a second set and haven't chanced into one), all combiners. Really the last thing is a TNGM, which is basically reserved for whenever I wanna cough up $15.

- Down to my last 4 parts for Artakha - just the 4 Metallic Silver Unicorn horns. Next, onto mask printing and making a cape (prefer this to the Knights Kingdom cape supplied by the original builder)

Just some advice, as you appear to be relatively new to BZPower - there's general rules against double-posting (or in this case, posting 9 times in a row). If you have additional info, feel free to edit your original post. Otherwise, this constitutes as spam and again - is unadvised. Take that in mind, and welcome to BZP.

Hello all,

I've made a few of these topics, with minimal results. Hoping that putting some price ranges on things may potentially bring forth a few people. As of right now - I am mainly interested in paying money for these. I have a few original Great Kanohi with which I could also trade, if so preferred. Not currently looking to sell these, or trade for another Kanohi (have all other than misprints at the moment).

Here is what I'm looking for, followed by some price ranges. I am willing to hear values outside of these ranges, but do recall I both have followed prices on these for years and also am not looking to pay like $500 for some of these. These are, to the best of my knowledge, relatively fair offers.

BOXES WANTED

- 8998: Toa Mata Nui ($100-150)

- 10201: Takutanuva ($100-150)

- 8923: Hydraxon ($30-50)

- 8922: Gadunka ($30-50)

- 8733: Axonn ($15-30)

- 8581: Kopeke ($5-15)

- 8584: Hewkii ($5-15)

- 8586: Macku ($5-15)

- 4869: Rahaga Pouks ($5-15)

- 4877: Rahaga Norik ($5-15)

- 4878: Rahaga Bomonga ($5-15)

- 4879: Rahaga Iruini ($5-15)

- 8722: Kazi ($5-15)

- 8723: Piruk ($1-15)

- 8726: Dalu ($5-15)

- 8929: Defilak ($5-15)

- 8930: Dekar ($5-15)

- 8931: Thulox ($5-15)

- 8932: Morak ($5-15)

- 1388: Huki ($1-15)

- 1389: Onepu ($1-15)

INSTRUCTIONS WANTED

- 8998: Toa Mata Nui (All - I believe there's 3? could be wrong - $40)

- 8942: Jetrax T6 (Limited Edition - all 3 - $40)

FOR TRADE / SALE (trade only for boxes)

- Hau: Green (x3), Brown, White

- Akaku: Red (x2), Blue, Brown (x2)

- Pakari: Green, Brown

- Kau Kau: Green

- Miru: Red

Please make any offers - very much seeking out these last items.

On 8/3/2023 at 12:06 PM, Illuminatus said:

EDIT: Upon researching something else entirely, I inadvertently found proof that only the Infected Hau was in fact distributed in those packs and also that those packs absolutely contained predominantly default masks (absolutely shame on you, LEGO).

Yep! The Infected Hau was the chase mask, the one they hinted at was the rare extra one. I don't believe other Rahi masks were put in as far as I know.

19 hours ago, Illuminatus said:

Not defending him but if he's been through enough of those packs then I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. It has crossed my mind that overlapping releases of Krana and Krana-Kal packs might both include Protodermic Kanohi Nuva as LEGO doesn't appear to care all that much about consistency; I also think I read that someone had stumbled upon one as a kid? Like I for one had no idea that Rahi Kanohi were available in 2001 polybags but that appears to have been proven at this point.

My only issue is there would have been a lot of news on the subject back in the day - both MoD and BZP don't have any articles relating to finding them in these packs. I wanna say there really wasn't much overlapping production in mask packs - from what I recall anecdotally LEGO was burned on them after the initial ones and discontinued stock when new ones came out. I might be misremembering, but I think there's an MoD article about rates of Protodermic Kanohi Nuva in the Krana-Kal packs.

My thought is - this guy knows these well enough to know they don't, and hopes potential buyers don't know there were different ones. I figure too if they had any widespread availability of protodermic masks you'd see them be virtually non-existent the way Krana-Kal packs are. But - at the same time, can't say I bought any then and actually know.

As for Rahi masks in the Kanohi Packs - do we have any evidence of that? Again, a lot of coverage back in the day and little reporting I've ever seen. I know we're unsure about Huna prints (as there may have been initial plans to print Noble Kanohi in Great colors). I saw someone link a LUGNET article from early 2001 with people complaining they didn't get any correct noble colors and just misprints. Wonder if they've seen the market prices now...

On 7/31/2023 at 7:02 AM, Illuminatus said:

I think it's important to not get carried away when describing what the market is and does because the line between that and justifying what the market is and does is very thin. If we're to logically follow the line of thinking where we simply observe, describe and predict how something will be, we sweep the "should" bit very comfortably under the rug. And the "should" bit isn't unimportant. Because the market doesn't exist in isolation. The market consists of every seller and buyer that's ever participated in it and every seller and buyer has agency in the process. Going by that logic, there is nothing more "natural" than a market being overrun with bad actors. But natural doesn't make it excusable.

That's why I'm all for constant, active discourse on the subject. Certain things really are a certain way "regardless of how we feel" but the market is something that is very much defined by how we feel; it's not just a thing out there doing its thing.

I think a big part of the reason why most of us are willing to give scalping behavior a pass is that deep down we all kind of wish we could operate with that type of cash on that kind of level. And we all kind of admire what the scalpers do (not unlike one admires a very well thought out con; except in this case the con isn't even sophisticated).

EDIT: The reason why I think discourse is important is because if people have easier access to information that validates their frustration with the market, it would make them feel less isolated and powerless. It is one thing to just "go with it" when only a scalper has that thing you really want when everyone seems to think that's just how things are; but when you know that quite a few others share your frustration, you'd be much more likely to reconsider how much you really want (let alone "need") that thing you're after. It also helps you unframe every single other fan as your competition or potential buyer.

There is tremendous power in not caring. As @T.B.O.C very adequately put, there is nothing stopping any of us from just moving on if we see the market is hopeless, because hopelessness is exactly what makes an "eager" (actually desperate) fan accept the price tag. This hobby is meant to bring joy, not misery.

Mm, very much so to your first point - I think people often get bogged down in the action of a market as just the way it goes and its justified. I think in a lot of ways we're still relatively new to major price shifts - BIONICLE carried fairly stable prices for a number of years after cancellation. I really feel like it's the past few years so much has gone up, though I know some rare pieces have been climbing hard (pearl gold Kraahkan and Vohtarak shell).

The point about admiration makes sense too in some regards. I've had to several times go "am I frustrated because I wish I had these things?" and the answer was absolutely yes. There's also some dissatisfaction I find watching these resellers kind of attempt to rewrite history - especially as we see newer fans show up who were not there for original release. A lot of "rare" and expensive things were dirt cheap and common. Doesn't make them worth less now, but it's always sort of rough watching people just straight up fabricate things to sell them.

On 7/31/2023 at 7:53 AM, Aiden said:

It didn’t. He briefly had the listing up before the 5k listing went up. (Assuming the worst) I’m assuming he took it down when the 3k listing showed up and put it back up afterwards to try and “justify” his price more.

The prices people like SYU and BU ask are exorbitant, even for how rare the items are. That trans orange shadow leech prototype SYU sold for 800? (Well firstly, he claimed it was the only one in existence “to his knowledge”, which was lying on both fronts). These were given out free (as quite a few prototypes have been) years ago, and on top of that hundreds of shadow leech prototypes in varying colors were made. I own a trans orange as well, and reached out to him letting him know his wasn’t the only one, and provided pictures, and he RESPONDED and acknowledged this to me- and then didn’t update his listings. So I can personally prove his claims were a lie.

Ideally the only items going close to or above $1k are the items made of precious metals. Anything else, including, yes, sought after prototype masks, should realistically not go over 500. Both the proto masks I’ve owned (which were pretty recently purchased) I bought for $300. Non mask items like prototype zamors or other prototype weapons I’ve bought for $50. That’s my ideal market as far as prototypes go- and I’ve been able to make it happen. So if you see something listed way too high don’t bite or cave into FOMO. Be patient and be diligent, chances are you’ll find it cheaper.

Obviously the market has some part in everything, but there are sellers who knowingly and willingly take advantage of it. SYU is widely regarded as somebody who has almost SINGLE-HANDEDLY scuffed the market to where it is today, and has been banned from quite a few bionicle communities for his practices. Defending such practices does nobody any good and enables them further. 

SYU in particular upsets me - a ton of gouging for limited edition sets. 2 of my 4 remaining sets are the yellow Jetrax and Toa Mata Nui, which he is commonly the only seller of. Very frustrating!

Speaking of - has anyone else noticed he sells regular Kanohi Nuva polybags and claims they can have protodermic ones? It's intriguing to see someone outright lie - no way he doesn't know that was just the Krana-Kal packs. I've reported that listing for fraud before but I'm doubtful it'll do too much. Just frustrating again in regards to the whole "fabricate something to sell stuff" thing we see sellers do on occasion.

This isn't a known factor. I'm highly doubtful Lego had precise numbers on Kraata production. They were only available to Kraata tubs, as I'm sure you've noticed. There's a member on this board who made some numbers from opening Kraata tubs - but this is but one data point. Cyclone seem to be rarer in the current market, but I doubt this is entirely based on actual production, as much as they are known for being rarer due to most people at the end of their Kraata collections needing a specific few. My guess is 1 in 42 (don't recall if Rahkshi set Kraata came in tubs), or 1 in 36 if they just contained wild ones.

On 7/28/2023 at 8:41 AM, Aiden said:

Prices seem a bit steep if they’re open and you know what they’re getting, but they don’t know what they’re getting. I’d recommend selling the masks and krana individually at that point, and just packaging them in the boxes as a bonus 

Agreed - not to be rude to the OP, but most of these boxes are available on their own for fairly cheap. If you already know the contents, why not let the sellers know what they're buying? Especially with the pricing on the Nuva/Krana-Kal boxes, as they're really only worth more money in their off-chance of protodermic Kanohi. Otherwise, I'm not sure you'll find too many buyers.

On 7/27/2023 at 11:09 AM, Letagi said:

Totally agree with this. Much of the recent price hike is attributable to a handful of predatory scalpers. Set You Up/Yo_Yo_Flamingo and Bionicle Universe are the main culprits but there are others. Set You Up currently has a light gold Avohkii prototype listed for $5000, no doubt the same one that just sold on eBay for $3000.

I suspect that sellers like him buy their own stock using duplicate accounts to establish a sales record, making people believe that certain items are worth a fortune, but I don't have proof of this.

I get most frustrated when items that really aren't that rare become prohibitively expensive, like the pearl gold Kraahkan. There must be tens of thousands of them out there, if not more, and they are pretty much always available for sale. If I can buy multiples of an item with a few clicks, it's not rare. 

It extends way outside of Bionicle. There are currently 41 Cloud City Boba Fett minifigs on BrickLink and around a dozen more on eBay. Clearly not a rare figure, and yet the Lego Star Wars AFOL community has unanimously decided that it's worth thousands. Just a few years ago they sold for a couple hundred - still a lot for a mass-produced plastic minifig, but attainable for most collectors who want one.

And as for the "demand is greater than supply" argument - if that were true, then every time one of these pieces gets listed, it would sell immediately. The demand for Cloud City Boba Fett minifigs is very obviously not greater than the supply. Pearl gold Kraahkan listings on BrickLink stay up for months. The perception of rarity in these cases has somehow been artificially created. Contrast this with something like an SSKK, which actually is rare and justifiably valuable.

I really hope the bubble bursts soon. I won't have any empathy for the predators who are out thousands of dollars. As much as I like the idea that my collection is valuable, I like the idea of being able to buy all the rare pieces I want even more.

I agree with this - I've more recently started to detest several of these named sellers for their practices. The Pearl Gold Avohkii in particular struck me - I wasn't bidding on the central auction (as I do not have that sort of money for a mask), but turning around just to resell it is extremely lame. These are collectors pieces! Think about all the prototypes and rare masks we've seen in the last few years by people who just like BIONICLE and want to show rare pieces of history. I think a great amount of people are either people who actively build and buy parts, or who collect. I fall more into the latter, and it's extremely upsetting how many people clearly move through BIONICLE selling as a means to make money. It's well known and expected at this point, but I dislike these people nonetheless.

We are, however, primarily in the age of BIONICLE rising in price. The pandemic hitting, as well as being well within the nostalgia window for people who are starting to come into solid income with BIONICLE being over 20 years old now. That being said - there's absolutely bad actors performing market manipulation. The fact several have been named dropped here says something to me. Particular parts are 100% the issue - you know how a boxed Toa Mata Nui was $600 even a year or two back? $1-1.7K now. I remember when most people on BZP sold masks for a few dollars at a time, you wouldn't dream of pricing most Krana over 50 cents, and occasionally WMKK would show up on eBay for something like $300. Forget $10-25 price tags on Kraata, unheard of. Even less than 10 years ago several over $100 sets were worth nothing. I bought my Exo-Toa and Boxor for $35. My Muaka and Kane-Ra was $40.  

There's an extent to which it'll burst. The vast majority of people are not looking for the rarest things and are going to shill out money for them. The poster above brings up a valid point in that these markets will continue as they have for TCG and other ones, but how many people are actually willing to buy some of these things for outrageous prices? The vast majority of people who buy BIONICLE sets are looking for significantly less insane things. Most people are looking for some canister sets and maybe some retail collectibles, the second of which most people are already priced out of. Kanohi only go so high before no one buys them. Someone who really wants Tahu Mata isn't going to buy that $30 buy-it-now for a loose one, they're gonna buy a lot of like 8 Toa for $20 that has what they wanted actually. I have waited out auctions for several years of people not buying them. There are price points where only very few select people will pay the price. Like if that one Bricklink seller who keeps buying up Black Metru torsos to resell for $20 each keeps doing their work, no one is gonna care about building Bomonga anymore. Not like we won't have someone able to 3D print decent enough ones for cheaper.

Not even gonna go into how prominent YouTube channels have negatively affected pricing. Every "Top 10 Rarest BIONICLE Set" video contributes, just like how "Hidden Gem Games" videos helped decimate game collecting markets.

Even dedicated collectors have limits - there are many people like me who have collected since BIONICLE came out who are basically done. I have a handful of collectibles and 4 sets left before I stop caring. I've adjusted my expectations for "rare" collectibles I've wanted and simply don't care anymore. If the niche people aren't buying, who is? People who perpetually want to resell? It's ridiculous, and again why I dislike the advent of scalpers and resellers in these communities. Their purpose is to wring money out of people, and those who are desperate pay the prices. It goes until people don't care anymore. Why do you think the good resin printers right now sell nearly perfect gold Ignika for $20? They fill the market for the people who just want something that looks like that. It's why significant amounts of MTG players just play in Tabletop RPG instead of going bankrupt affording cards they want.