Discussion: The Future Of Bzpower

[Ziko]

What is protozapping =S?

That's when a moderator lowers your proto level. Your proto level is indicated by the bar beneath your post count. It's starts out at zero (in the middle), and can either go up (for good things like helping out in Q&A) or down (for breaking rules) depending on your actions.You can read more about proto in these topics. If you have any questions about it, you can ask them in the second one as well. Edited January 14, 2012 by Ziko

[Klak]

I've seen some members who have broken or dodged rules countless times, and they still frequent this site (don't remember some of their names). Their protos are barely touched.I'm not saying I don't think the admins are strict. I'm not saying I agree with EVERYTHING the admins say or do. But, if most of what they do is necessary to keep things clean and healthy here, then by the will of Picard, make it so. If you have a complaint against one of the admins, PM someone. Start a site (BZP Watch, for example). Whatever works. But discuss it! Don't sit around and keep it bottled up so that when you explode all over a topic, you have no evidence to back up your claim.

Edited January 21, 2012 by MakutaKlak

[Sumiki]

I've seen some members who have broken or dodged rules countless times, and they still frequent this site (don't remember some of their names). Their protos are barely touched.

As was mentioned before in this topic, PE is not the only thing that can be docked as a punishment.

[Eragon3443]

What is protozapping =S?

That's when a moderator lowers your proto level. Your proto level is indicated by the bar beneath your post count. It's starts out at zero (in the middle), and can either go up (for good things like helping out in Q&A) or down (for breaking rules) depending on your actions.You can read more about proto in these topics. If you have any questions about it, you can ask them in the second one as well.

OK thnks. i was wondering what that was. At first I thought it was a post count bar, but now I know!

[Grantaire]

Personally, I think the problem is that BZp is in transition, with the result that it getas a bit directionless as regards to theme. BZp is going from wholly Bionicle to a more lego oriented theme, and the result is that it ends up having less of a focus. Personally, ATM, i'm not sure myself what BZP's theme is.

Edited January 14, 2012 by The Quiet Light

[Dralcax]

I've seen some members who have broken or dodged rules countless times, and they still frequent this site (don't remember some of their names). Their protos are barely touched.I'm not saying I don't think the admins are strict. I'm not saying I agree with EVERYTHING the admins say or do. But, if most of what they do is necessary to keep things clean and healthy here, then by the will of Picard, make it so. If you have a complaint against one of the admins, PM someone. Start a site. Whatever works. But discuss it! Don't sit around and keep it bottled up so that when you explode all over a topic, you have no evidence to back up your claim.

Yes, but not on BZPower, because we're all scared of being banned for talking bad about the admins.

[dviddy]

I've seen some members who have broken or dodged rules countless times, and they still frequent this site (don't remember some of their names). Their protos are barely touched.I'm not saying I don't think the admins are strict. I'm not saying I agree with EVERYTHING the admins say or do. But, if most of what they do is necessary to keep things clean and healthy here, then by the will of Picard, make it so. If you have a complaint against one of the admins, PM someone. Start a site. Whatever works. But discuss it! Don't sit around and keep it bottled up so that when you explode all over a topic, you have no evidence to back up your claim.

Yes, but not on BZPower, because we're all scared of being banned for talking bad about the admins.

Because that has totally happened in this very topic?

[fishers64]

Yes, but not on BZPower, because we're all scared of being banned for talking bad about the admins.

Because that has totally happened in this very topic?

No, it has not. But let's put this into a bit of perspective. I was on another forum run by a multi-national company (not Lego). They decided to upgrade their forum system and website. This did not take six months. This took one day . The next day, the forum was flooded with complaints about the upgrade. Some were honestly technical errors that needed to be fixed, but most were minor quibbles like the appearance of posts and the word filter. Of course, there were plenty of insults hurled at the company as well. On BZPower, the forum was down for six months. When we came back, there were no topics that I could discern filled with disdain and disgust. No complaints about the upgrade other than politely asked questions about minor technical quibbles. No railing againest the admins for having the forums offline for six months, the new forums not being up to par, nothing like that. It took us three months for this topic to even to come up in a thread that was on a subject that was completely unrelated. Here at BZP, we don't criticize the admins. I can remember that at several points during the downtime that I thought I should email the admins with some suggestions about work on the forums. At one point, I wanted to say "Just please get the archive up, please put that on top priority" but I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to get kicked off of here. I seriously doubt I'm a wonderous exception to a rule. Now, for the most part, the threat of punishment is probably a good thing around here, because it keeps members in line. But it can make people nervous when the rules are outdated, the moderators aren't acting reasonably, etc. I don't think BZP has gotten that far. In fact, the moderators here have a pretty good image here as real people, which is partly due to the Powercast. They should keep it up. I don't know about all this, but I do know that it makes me nervous posting topics that are in rule gray areas. Edited January 15, 2012 by fishers64

[dviddy]

Yes, but not on BZPower, because we're all scared of being banned for talking bad about the admins.

Because that has totally happened in this very topic?

No, it has not. But let's put this into a bit of perspective.I was on another forum run by a multi-national company (not Lego). They decided to upgrade their forum system and website. This did not take six months. This took one day . The next day, the forum was flooded with complaints about the upgrade. Some were honestly technical errors that needed to be fixed, but most were minor quibbles like the appearance of posts and the word filter. Of course, there were plenty of insults hurled at the company as well.On BZPower, the forum was down for six months. When we came back, there were no topics that I could discern filled with disdain and disgust. No complaints about the upgrade

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Is BZP good because no one complaines, but bad because it doesn't have the resources of a multi-national company, but the resources of three or four guys who do this on the side?Also, it was five months. It doesn't seem like a lot less, but it really is.Also, if you didn't see all the complaints, I don't know what to tell you. They were definitely everywhere. Edited January 15, 2012 by DeeVee

[fishers64]

Yes, but not on BZPower, because we're all scared of being banned for talking bad about the admins.

Because that has totally happened in this very topic?

No, it has not. But let's put this into a bit of perspective.I was on another forum run by a multi-national company (not Lego). They decided to upgrade their forum system and website. This did not take six months. This took one day . The next day, the forum was flooded with complaints about the upgrade. Some were honestly technical errors that needed to be fixed, but most were minor quibbles like the appearance of posts and the word filter. Of course, there were plenty of insults hurled at the company as well.On BZPower, the forum was down for six months. When we came back, there were no topics that I could discern filled with disdain and disgust. No complaints about the upgrade

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Is BZP good because no one complaines, but bad because it doesn't have the resources of a multi-national company, but the resources of three or four guys who do this on the side?Also, it was five months. It doesn't seem like a lot less, but it really is.Also, if you didn't see all the complaints, I don't know what to tell you. They were definitely everywhere.

Curse my iPod touch for posting this before I had completed it. And no, that is not what I meant. What I meant to say was that even after six months of downtime here, there was less complaints here then after one day of downtime there. I didn't see any "This upgrade is horrible" and "why did the (admins) do this to us?" anywhere. This is a credit to the BZP community, but it may be fear-induced.

[dviddy]

Yes, but not on BZPower, because we're all scared of being banned for talking bad about the admins.

Because that has totally happened in this very topic?

No, it has not. But let's put this into a bit of perspective.I was on another forum run by a multi-national company (not Lego). They decided to upgrade their forum system and website. This did not take six months. This took one day . The next day, the forum was flooded with complaints about the upgrade. Some were honestly technical errors that needed to be fixed, but most were minor quibbles like the appearance of posts and the word filter. Of course, there were plenty of insults hurled at the company as well.On BZPower, the forum was down for six months. When we came back, there were no topics that I could discern filled with disdain and disgust. No complaints about the upgrade

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Is BZP good because no one complaines, but bad because it doesn't have the resources of a multi-national company, but the resources of three or four guys who do this on the side?Also, it was five months. It doesn't seem like a lot less, but it really is.Also, if you didn't see all the complaints, I don't know what to tell you. They were definitely everywhere.

Curse my iPod touch for posting this before I had completed it. And no, that is not what I meant. What I meant to say was that even after six months of downtime here, there was less complaints here then after one day of downtime there. I didn't see any "This upgrade is horrible" and "why did the (admins) do this to us?" anywhere. This is a credit to the BZP community, but it may be fear-induced.

There were actually several topics in GD after the upgrade that were "what took so long?" and "the upgrade sucks" and "what did the upgrade even do, it doesn't look like much" and "the new layout is bad" and "the board looks bad now", etc. You must have missed them (and maybe you're lucky, because of it, haha). But we've always been okay with people complaining about things, even when it gets annoying (like when members complain about small signatures, you change the rules, and then they complain about giant signatures, and why did you change it, and blah). We only punish members when they're complaining gets overly personal or flaming, like "but DV is the worst blog leader, he just punishes and closes posts because he's a cotton-headed ninnymuggins who just likes to watch children cry and eat their ice cream" or what have you. You know, there's a line, where criticism crosses over into flaming, and sometimes peopel fumble with it, and we usually let that slide, but when people obviously cross it, you have to do something. We are the staff, and when we make rulings, we expect them to be followed. Saying "I don't understand this rule" is okay. Saying "this rule is dumb, and you're dumb for making it, and you clearly just don't want us to enjoy things, so we're going to ignore it and complain and complain and complain" is not. If that makes sense? Saying "the moderators are a little stand-offish, I wish they would interact with the community more" is okay. Saying "the moderators just don't care and like to lord over us because they think they're better than us" isn't.

[Lord Kini Hawkeye]

Thanks for unintentionally proving my point, Lord Kini Hawkeye. First offense proto reduction, no warning. It happens on here.

Had i proved your point, Zaz, i would've made a post agreeing with it. To be quite frank i disagree with most of what you've said, Zaz. In a case such as the changing of rules, i agree more with the admins than anyone, because as a community i don't believe that much of BZP is ready to become less restricted.Besides. I never said the severity of why I was zapped, and while i'd like to think that it was a bit much to be zapped, it's totally possible that the staff in question didn't agree with that particular sentiment. I never argued it, so the only person at fault is me.I can't even remember who it was that zapped me in the first place, but i have nothing against them for doing their job. Neither should you. Just because someone says it was unfair or wrong, doesn't mean it was. That's a life lesson.

[Gatanui]

I can remember that at several points during the downtime that I thought I should email the admins with some suggestions about work on the forums. At one point, I wanted to say "Just please get the archive up, please put that on top priority" but I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to get kicked off of here. I seriously doubt I'm a wonderous exception to a rule.

May I please ask you where you even got the idea from that you may get kicked off the site for saying that? Because quite frankly, I really don´t get it.~Gata.

[fishers64]

I can remember that at several points during the downtime that I thought I should email the admins with some suggestions about work on the forums. At one point, I wanted to say "Just please get the archive up, please put that on top priority" but I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to get kicked off of here. I seriously doubt I'm a wonderous exception to a rule.

May I please ask you where you even got the idea from that you may get kicked off the site for saying that? Because quite frankly, I really don´t get it.~Gata.

It would be overlordly. It gives the impression that I know better about how to fix the forum than the admins do, which I obviously do not.

[Toa Zaz]

I can remember that at several points during the downtime that I thought I should email the admins with some suggestions about work on the forums. At one point, I wanted to say "Just please get the archive up, please put that on top priority" but I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to get kicked off of here. I seriously doubt I'm a wonderous exception to a rule.

May I please ask you where you even got the idea from that you may get kicked off the site for saying that? Because quite frankly, I really don´t get it.~Gata.

Hmmm. I don't know, Gata. Let's think. Maybe he got it from seeing all the people getting their proto "zapped" immediately, with no warning. Maybe it was because of the staff habitually punished members for insulting the staff members on other websites. Maybe he noticed how, as Chao Makuta: Dralcax put it, the members are so afraid of the staff that something that would send members on other forums into a rage is met by members sitting on their hands and saying how glad they are that the website was back after half a year. Or maybe he's unnerved by the staff's "Take away areas of discussion forever because a few people messed it up for everybody a long time ago" attitude. Beats me.

[Gatanui]

I can remember that at several points during the downtime that I thought I should email the admins with some suggestions about work on the forums. At one point, I wanted to say "Just please get the archive up, please put that on top priority" but I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to get kicked off of here. I seriously doubt I'm a wonderous exception to a rule.

May I please ask you where you even got the idea from that you may get kicked off the site for saying that? Because quite frankly, I really don´t get it.~Gata.

It would be overlordly. It gives the impression that I know better about how to fix the forum than the admins do, which I obviously do not.

The staff is open to suggestions, and unless you go and tell the admins they are doing everything wrong and that it´s only right how you say it, there is no reason why you should be reprimanded.

Hmmm. I don't know, Gata. Let's think. Maybe he got it from seeing all the people getting their proto "zapped" immediately, with no warning. Maybe it was because of the staff habitually punished members for insulting the staff members on other websites. Maybe he noticed how, as Chao Makuta: Dralcax put it, the members are so afraid of the staff that something that would send members on other forums into a rage is met by members sitting on their hands and saying how glad they are that the website was back after half a year. Or maybe he's unnerved by the staff's "Take away areas of discussion forever because a few people messed it up for everybody a long time ago" attitude. Beats me.

Have you ever seen anybody being punished for making a reasonable suggestion?~Gata. Edited January 15, 2012 by Gatanui

[Lord Kini Hawkeye]

I can remember that at several points during the downtime that I thought I should email the admins with some suggestions about work on the forums. At one point, I wanted to say "Just please get the archive up, please put that on top priority" but I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to get kicked off of here. I seriously doubt I'm a wonderous exception to a rule.

May I please ask you where you even got the idea from that you may get kicked off the site for saying that? Because quite frankly, I really don´t get it.~Gata.

Hmmm. I don't know, Gata. Let's think. Maybe he got it from seeing all the people getting their proto "zapped" immediately, with no warning. Maybe it was because of the staff habitually punished members for insulting the staff members on other websites. Maybe he noticed how, as Chao Makuta: Dralcax put it, the members are so afraid of the staff that something that would send members on other forums into a rage is met by members sitting on their hands and saying how glad they are that the website was back after half a year. Or maybe he's unnerved by the staff's "Take away areas of discussion forever because a few people messed it up for everybody a long time ago" attitude. Beats me.

Gon' Reply in parts cause this is rediculous.

"Hmmm. I don't know, Gata. Let's think. Maybe he got it from seeing all the people getting their proto "zapped" immediately, with no warning."

I'll be the first person to say that this is absolutely rediculous. To my knowleldge i'm one of maybe three or four people who've had this happen to them for a first time offence, and lets face it, the more offences you have under your metaphorical belt, the more likely the staff are to simply zap you without more warnings. It's the same principle in the RPG forums.

"Maybe it was because of the staff habitually punished members for insulting the staff members on other websites."

Okay, this one's pretty simple. One of BZP's rules is to respect the staff, no? By insult the staff, you break that rule. Even if it's on another website, it's still breaking that rule and, by extension, you can be punished here for it. Just because you break the law in, say, Texas, doesn't mean you're exempt from punishment back home in Washington. Additionally, the key word here is Insulting, because that's a plain out No-no here on BZP.

"Maybe he noticed how, as Chao Makuta: Dralcax put it, the members are so afraid of the staff that something that would send members on other forums into a rage is met by members sitting on their hands and saying how glad they are that the website was back after half a year."

Afraid? Of the staff? Unless you're doing something seriously wrong you have no reason to be afraid of the staff. I'm the last person you'll see sit on his hands if i see an issue i just can't put up with, and yet i've not been protozapped or even warned since my original incident so many years ago. It all comes down to how mature your are with your arguments. Someone who says "OMG BZP STAFF SUCK CAUSE OF THIS" is more likely to be punished than someone who says "I think this is what's wrong and here what I think could be done to change it." If you're so afraid of the staff you're sitting on your hands, there's something wrong. Then again, mayhap that's the part of me that's friends with quite a few staff members, so maybe i'm biased.

"Or maybe he's unnerved by the staff's "Take away areas of discussion forever because a few people messed it up for everybody a long time ago" attitude. Beats me."

This attitude is different than any other? I have personal experience, in real life, with stuff like this. In my school system, parents have complained about things as simple as their children falling in the snow (And i live in Alberta, that means a lot of snow.). Because of the complaints, the school, over time, banned kids from doing certain things in the winter, such as Sliding on ice, sledding, and the like. These rules havn't changed because, simply put, A few people messed it up for everyone a long time ago. Once you've made a ruling it looks extremely bad to go back on it, and can sometimes get you in more trouble than it's worth.So thanks for unintentionally proving my point Zaz, as that whole bit about someone who acts maturely is more likely to be noted and possibly even taken into account - That's kinda sorta directed at you, because the direction you're taking on this in your posting tells me that the majority of BZP members aren't ready for a change of rules. If you can't be respectful and Mature within the confines of the current rules, any future drafts are not going to make allowances for the common member outside of the old rules. Simple put.And here I said i wasn't going to start posting here... how silly of me, I should've known there'd be good debate here...

[Aanchir]

I just wanted to point out that the staff tend to be very understanding if you calmly report a concern of yours to them. One of my biggest concerns since BZPower has come back is with the advertising policy, since I am unable to keep track of which sites with commenting systems can be mentioned. I know Flickr is one, as is Cuusoo, naturally, but I am unsure about others like some of the major LEGO set database websites, one of which just implemented its own forums during the downtime. I sent a PM to Black Six with some of these concerns, and he replied saying he'd look into revising the advertising policy so it's a bit clearer about what can or can't be mentioned. While this change hasn't happened yet, I just wanted to share this experience as an example of how one can go to a staff member about a concern, even a concern about site policy, without fear of any repercussions.Now, naturally there are certain ways of bringing up your concerns that might make the staff angry. Sending an angry PM saying the rules are bad and demanding that they change will obviously not help your cause much, nor will making a passive-aggressive blog entry about how bad the staff are doing at their jobs. But I doubt you'll suffer any serious repercussions even for these sorts of over-the-top reactions-- you'll just make the staff member in question less likely to take your concerns seriously in the future.

[fishers64]

I can remember that at several points during the downtime that I thought I should email the admins with some suggestions about work on the forums. At one point, I wanted to say "Just please get the archive up, please put that on top priority" but I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to get kicked off of here. I seriously doubt I'm a wonderous exception to a rule.

May I please ask you where you even got the idea from that you may get kicked off the site for saying that? Because quite frankly, I really don´t get it.~Gata.

It would be overlordly. It gives the impression that I know better about how to fix the forum than the admins do, which I obviously do not.

The staff is open to suggestions, and unless you go and tell the admins they are doing everything wrong and that it´s only right how you say it, there is no reason why you should be reprimanded.

Hmmm. I don't know, Gata. Let's think. Maybe he got it from seeing all the people getting their proto "zapped" immediately, with no warning. Maybe it was because of the staff habitually punished members for insulting the staff members on other websites. Maybe he noticed how, as Chao Makuta: Dralcax put it, the members are so afraid of the staff that something that would send members on other forums into a rage is met by members sitting on their hands and saying how glad they are that the website was back after half a year. Or maybe he's unnerved by the staff's "Take away areas of discussion forever because a few people messed it up for everybody a long time ago" attitude. Beats me.

Have you ever seen anybody being punished for making a reasonable suggestion?~Gata.

No, I have not. I'm just nervous. If there is legit suggestion, I'll say it. The possibility of me getting kicked out of here makes me evaluate stuff that I otherwise would not evaluate, and to be slightly more careful in what I post. That is probably a good thing. However, preception is reality in this game. Some people on here think that the staff are untouchable and uncritizsizable. I was trying to explain why. These people need to read what you have just posted, Gata. I was always under the impression that suggestions were welcome when you started this topic, but not before. There's been a bad member perception going around, and I fell victim to it, I will be honest. For BZP to survive, the administration should try to maintain whatever status they have as real people who accept suggestions, not as distant overlords. We need member suggestions and efforts to stay alive and to move forward, and we cannot have those hindered to a major degree by fear of staff action againest us. Channels between members and staff for suggestions should remain open, and it should be clear to one and all that they are open. It took me a year on here before I knew that the administration was even interested in what we thought.Maybe that is partially my fault. But I don't think it was obvious to the casual observer either.

[GSR]

Well, this got sort of messy. I'd like to quote a moderator from a different (rather larger) forum I frequent, on moderation discussion (the parentheticals are in the original):

Meta-[discussion] (the definition of this is apparently discussions which involve the rules and allowances in the forum at large) is pretty much never an okay topic to be had directly. The reasons for this is pretty simple. Between normal users, debating about moderation policy and rules is pointless because it is meaningless and usually without proper context. If moderators get involved (as they have in this case) what starts out as a well meaning clarification of points will eventually turn into a Q&A session between users and mods about what specific things are okay or not okay on the forum (has it has in this case). This can and will go on forever and some questions do not have direct answers because it relies on context instead of simply playing a zero sum game of moderator theory where one person is either right or wrong.

One way to avoid going in such circles, of course, is to try and be open about moderation policies so that such discussion isn't needed - and I think that's sort of the problem people are having with BZP's moderation right now. As I mentioned before, BZP's moderation is comparatively speaking quite strict, and yet (as users have pointed out in this thread) the reasoning behind it can seem difficult to understand at times. BZP's policies of course are under review right now with regards to the filter and other issues, and these things do take time, but people may be getting the feeling that until we actually see results or examples of changes that will be put in place there isn't actually anything going on (a sentiment that may have been exacerbated by the downtime). Further, with all due respect, the mods here at times come off as somewhat robotic, with "topic closed" or "moving the topic" posts far outnumbering posts involved in the discussion. Part of this is BZP's policies - not many places immediately close topics once their original question is answered - and this is unavoidable to an extent, especially for staff who don't have much (if any) free time to spend discussing on BZP, but it can still come off as stand-offish.The end result of all that is that people perceive BZP's moderation to be stricter than it actually is, and in turn can become slightly wary of the staff or of making posts that could be considered infractions for reasons they're unaware of, and this in turn puts a slight damper on the community here. I'm sure once new policies about the filter and such things are implemented, that will help alleviate the problem to a degree, but BZP's style of moderation, for all the good it does (which is quite a lot - none of these rules would be in place if there wasn't a reason for them) could be a deterrent to new members (lord knows I've heard plenty of complaining about BZP on other sites). Edited January 15, 2012 by GSR

[Gatanui]

No, I have not. I'm just nervous. If there is legit suggestion, I'll say it. The possibility of me getting kicked out of here makes me evaluate stuff that I otherwise would not evaluate, and to be slightly more careful in what I post. That is probably a good thing. However, preception is reality in this game. Some people on here think that the staff are untouchable and uncritizsizable. I was trying to explain why. These people need to read what you have just posted, Gata. I was always under the impression that suggestions were welcome when you started this topic, but not before. There's been a bad member perception going around, and I fell victim to it, I will be honest. For BZP to survive, the administration should try to maintain whatever status they have as real people who accept suggestions, not as distant overlords. We need member suggestions and efforts to stay alive and to move forward, and we cannot have those hindered to a major degree by fear of staff action againest us. Channels between members and staff for suggestions should remain open, and it should be clear to one and all that they are open. It took me a year on here before I knew that the administration was even interested in what we thought.Maybe that is partially my fault. But I don't think it was obvious to the casual observer either.

I guess you are right to an extent. I remember when I was still a new member in 2005 and 2006 (maybe even stil in 2007), the staff members were some sort of gods to me. It could be because the staff was truly stricter in those days. Either way, the fact that you can get that impression does not mean we are really mean. And anyway, isn´t a certain fear of those above you natural before you get to know them better? Not implying the staff is above the members by any means, it´s just that we have more responsibilities and authority on the site- you get my point. That said, I am not sure newcomers can even join without having some sort of impression about the staff being overlords. We can, however, contribute to shattering that first impression by the way we act on the forums. In my opinion, we are improving on that, and things like this very topic or the once again frequent member creation spotlights contribute a big deal. As GSR said, updating some of our rules will contribute as well.~Gata. Edited January 15, 2012 by Gatanui

[Toa of Nerds]

I think that the staff culture has really started to change. I remember back before the downtime the staff really were like robots. The only time I ever saw staff members was "topic closed" or "topic moved". Just look at archived posts from forum leaders and you'll see what I mean. However, since the down time I've seen many staff members getting really involved in discussion. Gata posts a lot, Bones is always around S&T, and Deevee even posts some (despite the fact that the forums aren't even his area). I feel like the staff, and the community as a whole, is moving in the right direction.EDIT: In addition to that, I want to say that I feel perfectly comfortable voicing my concerns with the staff. If somebody closes a topic of mine for some reason I don't agree with, I'd have no problem politely PMing them asking why they did that. The key is "polite". The staff are like most people: if you ask nicely they'll listen to you, if you act rude and entitled, then don't expect to get any results.-don't touch my pocket protector

Edited January 15, 2012 by Toa of Nerds

[Gatanui]

About the point of the staff being robots: I fully understand it, but then again, you have to keep in mind it´s not at all easy to come up with a new closing or moving post every time, and depending on how much time you have, you will most likely simply make the same generic post every time. However, if you have seen some of SPIRIT´s closing posts (Please-Do-Not-Spam is AMAZING! ), you will know it´s possible for the staff to be creative. ~Gata.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Gatanui

[Dralcax]

I remember back before the downtime the staff really were like robots. The only time I ever saw staff members was "topic closed" or "topic moved". Just look at archived posts from forum leaders and you'll see what I mean. However, since the down time I've seen many staff members getting really involved in discussion. Gata posts a lot, Bones is always around S&T, and Deevee even posts some (despite the fact that the forums aren't even his area).

But... When was the last time you saw a moderator playing an RPG? Or making an MOC for the fun of it? Or doing any of the things BZPower members do every day?^quote look familiar?^Only Gata, Bones, Turakii, and Deevee (Maybe Spirit, I can't remember) have gotten active like that, and I haven't seen Turakii around and posting non-staff stuff like the rest much since the downtime. (Except when she commented on my profile about my sig).

[dviddy]

Deevee even posts some (despite the fact that the forums aren't even his area)

Haha, my goal is to be visible all over the place, because I have a lot of free time suddenly.

Or making an MOC for the fun of it?

I mean, that's kind of my thing. So maybe I don't count on this one, but I'm actually sitting here with parts in front of me right now. Edited January 15, 2012 by DeeVee

[Gatanui]

I remember back before the downtime the staff really were like robots. The only time I ever saw staff members was "topic closed" or "topic moved". Just look at archived posts from forum leaders and you'll see what I mean. However, since the down time I've seen many staff members getting really involved in discussion. Gata posts a lot, Bones is always around S&T, and Deevee even posts some (despite the fact that the forums aren't even his area).

But... When was the last time you saw a moderator playing an RPG? Or making an MOC for the fun of it? Or doing any of the things BZPower members do every day?^quote look familiar?^Only Gata, Bones, Turakii, and Deevee (Maybe Spirit, I can't remember) have gotten active like that, and I haven't seen Turakii around and posting non-staff stuff like the rest much since the downtime. (Except when she commented on my profile about my sig).

There is a good portion of other staff members who are active around the forums (Zeddy, Takuma Nuva, Eeko, Erebus and others). And again, time is a issue here. You can´t expect too many staff members to play an RPG or post MOCs regularly (except for DV ) when most of us have jobs, are going to college or are in the last few months of school like I am.~Gata.

[Lord Kini Hawkeye]

I remember back before the downtime the staff really were like robots. The only time I ever saw staff members was "topic closed" or "topic moved". Just look at archived posts from forum leaders and you'll see what I mean. However, since the down time I've seen many staff members getting really involved in discussion. Gata posts a lot, Bones is always around S&T, and Deevee even posts some (despite the fact that the forums aren't even his area).

But... When was the last time you saw a moderator playing an RPG? Or making an MOC for the fun of it? Or doing any of the things BZPower members do every day?^quote look familiar?^Only Gata, Bones, Turakii, and Deevee (Maybe Spirit, I can't remember) have gotten active like that, and I haven't seen Turakii around and posting non-staff stuff like the rest much since the downtime. (Except when she commented on my profile about my sig).

BZPRPG before the downtime :PThe biggest thing to remember is that the staff aren't regular BZP members. Look at any normal member and their activity wanes as finals get closer, or as they get older. Look at a staff member and this happens at a much larger rate. Why? Because the staff have a responsibility to keep this site running, and due to that it's not every day they get the chance to post, asides from those post directly relating to their duty.However, I still see Forum Mentors post a lot, and Assistants - I see staff all over the place posting, especially in CoT. (Though that might just be myself, i tend to think of CoT RPG judges along the same lines as staff, even if they aren't).Staff Members don't have the same liberties that normal BZPers do, simply because they are staff members, and that's something to keep in mind.

[Tilius]

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Edited April 26, 2021 by Tilius

[dviddy]

The biggest thing to remember is that the staff aren't regular BZP members. Look at any normal member and their activity wanes as finals get closer, or as they get older. Look at a staff member and this happens at a much larger rate. Why? Because the staff have a responsibility to keep this site running, and due to that it's not every day they get the chance to post, asides from those post directly relating to their duty.

Lol, no. They barely post because a lot of them really don't care about the site anymore, and only keep their positions because they're considered 'cool' and people don't want them to step down. They basically remain out of habit. Which isn't even speculation, I've spoken to a few who have said this exact thing....- Tilius

While there are definitely a few staffers who aren't interested in Bionicle, I can guarantee that all of the active staffers are very interested in BZPower.

[Sumiki]

I would be very interested to see quotes from conversations you've had with staff members with regards to their alleged BZPower apathy.

[fishers64]

Also, I believe that less activity on the server means that the staff have more time to do other things. I also think some of the derisive comments about staff inactivity are shortsighted. I see Bfahome and DeeVee about, not to mention xccj and 55555 making posts in Lego Discussion and Storyline & Theories. Even Black Six is making longer posts. In this regard, I believe we heading in a positive direction, but we need to keep it that way. Also, I believe the Powercast has made a contribution to a positive staff member image, because we hear about what they think on there. It isn't perfect, but it works. One suggestion I would like to make is that members should try to report creative works to go on the front page, and the staff should encourage this. I thought about building an assoiciation-type thing to encourage this and to ensure that the staff doesn't have to spend time vetting less-than-worthy creative items. However, I could imagine that such a thing would be elitist, possibly corrupt, and possibly cause more problems than it solves. What do you all think?

[dviddy]

I do want to point out that we have a system in place for reporting member's creations, and as you can see recently, we have brought that back with a passion. We have at least two more works in the pipeline, even. I would like to see it perhaps a bit more stabilized, perhaps make a "Members Monday" so people know that on Mondays, our news is going to be a Spotlight on the Member's creations.

[Tilius]

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Edited April 26, 2021 by Tilius

[fishers64]

I do want to point out that we have a system in place for reporting member's creations, and as you can see recently, we have brought that back with a passion. We have at least two more works in the pipeline, even. I would like to see it perhaps a bit more stabilized, perhaps make a "Members Monday" so people know that on Mondays, our news is going to be a Spotlight on the Member's creations.

Please pardon my ignorance. How does this current system work? Can I report creations to be featured, and if so, how? I have a few that I would like to report, but I do not wish to mess up the system. Do I go through the standard official channels, like the email address? I can understand why the reporting staff would not want members reporting stuff as they likely would get flooded with junk, but it does have some advantages in the fact that enlisting the members gives you more eyes looking at the creative forums, meaning less work for the staff. And it would give us less of a "you've got to kiss up to the staff" image.

[Sumiki]

I would be very interested to see quotes from conversations you've had with staff members with regards to their alleged BZPower apathy.

But you're right, I'm obviously lying because I have so much to gain from doing so.

Where did I say you lied?Anything is "alleged" until something is proven either way. As of now, it's a he-said, he-said contest. I'm not siding with you, but I'm not siding against you either - I just wanted to know if you still had the quotes.

[dviddy]

I do want to point out that we have a system in place for reporting member's creations, and as you can see recently, we have brought that back with a passion. We have at least two more works in the pipeline, even. I would like to see it perhaps a bit more stabilized, perhaps make a "Members Monday" so people know that on Mondays, our news is going to be a Spotlight on the Member's creations.

Please pardon my ignorance. How does this current system work? Can I report creations to be featured, and if so, how? I have a few that I would like to report, but I do not wish to mess up the system. Do I go through the standard official channels, like the email address?I can understand why the reporting staff would not want members reporting stuff as they likely would get flooded with junk, but it does have some advantages in the fact that enlisting the members gives you more eyes looking at the creative forums, meaning less work for the staff. And it would give us less of a "you've got to kiss up to the staff" image.

You're welcome to message a staff member with a recommendation, but what I meant was that the staff has a system in place.

[Tilius]

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Edited April 26, 2021 by Tilius

[fishers64]

I do want to point out that we have a system in place for reporting member's creations, and as you can see recently, we have brought that back with a passion. We have at least two more works in the pipeline, even. I would like to see it perhaps a bit more stabilized, perhaps make a "Members Monday" so people know that on Mondays, our news is going to be a Spotlight on the Member's creations.

Please pardon my ignorance. How does this current system work? Can I report creations to be featured, and if so, how? I have a few that I would like to report, but I do not wish to mess up the system. Do I go through the standard official channels, like the email address?I can understand why the reporting staff would not want members reporting stuff as they likely would get flooded with junk, but it does have some advantages in the fact that enlisting the members gives you more eyes looking at the creative forums, meaning less work for the staff. And it would give us less of a "you've got to kiss up to the staff" image.

You're welcome to message a staff member with a recommendation, but what I meant was that the staff has a system in place.

So don't rock the ship? They already have a system in place, so don't bother to try to help, since I will just get in the way? I guess that's fine. Can't say I like it, but I understand. Out of further dumb curiosity, which staff members would I PM? The reporting staff? Or would it be the staff of whatever creative stuff I'm reporting? Like, if I'm reccommending a comedy, should I PM the staff of the Comedies forum? I'm asking this on a just-in-case basis now.

[Eeko]

I do want to point out that we have a system in place for reporting member's creations, and as you can see recently, we have brought that back with a passion. We have at least two more works in the pipeline, even. I would like to see it perhaps a bit more stabilized, perhaps make a "Members Monday" so people know that on Mondays, our news is going to be a Spotlight on the Member's creations.

Please pardon my ignorance. How does this current system work? Can I report creations to be featured, and if so, how? I have a few that I would like to report, but I do not wish to mess up the system. Do I go through the standard official channels, like the email address?I can understand why the reporting staff would not want members reporting stuff as they likely would get flooded with junk, but it does have some advantages in the fact that enlisting the members gives you more eyes looking at the creative forums, meaning less work for the staff. And it would give us less of a "you've got to kiss up to the staff" image.

You're welcome to message a staff member with a recommendation, but what I meant was that the staff has a system in place.

So don't rock the ship? They already have a system in place, so don't bother to try to help, since I will just get in the way? I guess that's fine. Can't say I like it, but I understand.Out of further dumb curiosity, which staff members would I PM? The reporting staff? Or would it be the staff of whatever creative stuff I'm reporting? Like, if I'm reccommending a comedy, should I PM the staff of the Comedies forum? I'm asking this on a just-in-case basis now.

You could PM any of the staff, and we'll pass it along the system.Although I'd keep it to lower-staff, (e.g. Assistants, Mentors, and Reporters), to give the higher-ups an easier time. Edited January 16, 2012 by Eeko

[D-D-D-Ddude]

I think this the only topic I've ever read on this site where the discussion has almost nothing to do with the topic and the staff are participating xDIf I could throw my metaphorical hat into the metaphorical ring of this topic's discussion: I definitely disagree with the notion that "the staff are robots," but I can kind of see how people would get that impression. If you only look a person's topic closures and post edits/removals, you can get that impression. But it's kind of like saying birds can only fly because you never see them on the ground. If you actually read the blogs of most staff members, you can see that they're people like the rest of us.I was staff on a forum once (muuuuuch smaller than BZPower) and let me put it this way: it's not easy to make everyone happy. It's not terribly fun to have to rebuke someone for something, especially if they're your friend. That's actually happening on the other forum right now. It's difficult. The staff of a site are generally inclined to treat everyone equally, and that can make them seem distant at time.