Story, Please Help Me

[Toa Kopaka TJByrum]

Hey guys, I have some questions.I'm one of the original BIONICLE fans. I know everything from the coming of the Toa Mata on Mata Nui, all the way up to when the Inika first went to Mahri Nui. I don't know anything about what happened in Mahri Nui, except Matoro sacrificed himself to save Mata Nui, and I don't know anything that happened in Karda Nui, except Teridax took over Mata Nui's body. After that, not a clue.1. After the Toa Nuva left Voya Nui, what happened to them, and how did they get new armor/weapons?2. Can you give me a summary of what happened in Mahri Nui?3. Can you give me a summary of what happened in Karda Nui?4. After Teridax takes over the Matoran Universe, what happens after all of that?5. Why are the Toa Nuva always split up now? What happened to the idea of 'Unity'?So in basic terms, what happens from Mahri Nui, and up. I started reading "The Powers that Be", and was very confused about who Lesoviik was, why he killed Karzhani and Tren Krom (whoever he is), and why the Toa Nuva don't do anything together anymore, and the Bionicle Stars confused me... certainly that's not Tahu in his old Kanohi Hua - is it? If so, why is he the only Toa there, and why are the other Toa Nuva not?

[Meta-Mind]

When the Nuva left Voya Nui, they began doing tasks listed on the Scroll of Preparations, which were necessary for Mata Nui's awakening. After they were done, they were teleported to Artahka, where they trekked through a blizzard until they reached Artahka's fortress. Artahka used his Mask of Creation to create their adaptive gear, then teleported them to Karda Nui.Mahri NuiMahri Nui broke off from Voya Nui about 700 years after the Great Cataclysm. When it sank, it smashed into the Fields of Air, releasing a score of air bubbles which lasted long enough for the Matoran to organize. (It also squashed a fortress created by Ehlek, as a matter of fact). Lava still pouring from Mount Valmai on Voya Nui formed the Cord, connecting Mahri Nui to Voya Nui through a tunnel system (this went unused until about 301 years later, when the Inika arrived). This also acted as an anchor, rooting the formerly floating island of Voya Nui in one place. The Matoran of Voya Nui dropped items such as Kanohi and tools into the sea to honor their friends (who they thought were dead), which coincidentally helped their Mahri Nui-dwelling brethren to survive.Eventually, the Kanohi Ignika was recovered from the Chamber of Life by Matoro and the rest of the Inika. It fled from them and sank towards the Pit, where Kyrehx (a Ga-Matoran) found it. She was cursed by it so that plant life nearby became semi-sentient and attempted to attack her. She passed it on to Dekar, a Po-Matoran, who went off to his profession as an aqua-hunter. At the same time, Defilak, a Le-Matoran and the current council leader of Mahri Nui, led an expedition into the Pit in a shark-like submarine. He was captured by the Barraki Pridak, who released the other Matoran but kept Defilak for interrogation (he believed Defilak knew about the Mask of Life). Meanwhile, Ehlek mounted an attack on Mahri Nui, which many Matoran (including Dekar) attempted to fend off - but Dekar found that any injuries he inflicted healed instantly. Determining that the mask was cursed, he took it into a cave to break it.The Barraki eventually caught up with Dekar in the cave, and Pridak snatched the mask, claiming that Mahri Nui was his. The mask glowed brightly, and as a cry for help transformed the Toa Inika (who were trying to give chase to the mask through the Cord) into the Toa Mahri.After that, there were a number of small battles. Eventually, the Toa obtained the mask, evactuated the Mahritoran to safety, and shattered the Cord with Cordak (pfft) Blasters. Voya Nui began to sink back to the Mata Nui 'bot's chest, and the Mahri pursued. Mata Nui died during the chase, but Matoro was determined to press on. Just in time, Matoro beat Voya Nui to the spot in the Southern Continent which it had once occupied, and put on the Mask of Life. A blinding light illuminated the cavern, and Mata Nui was revived from death. The light also blinded the Makuta in Karda Nui at the time...Karda NuiOriginally, Karda Nui was simply the universe's core, a massive power generator for Mata Nui. After the Great Cataclysm, however, the hole in its roof left by Voya Nui allowed water from the Pit to form a giant waterfall in the cavern, and turn the desert floor into a large swamp. Karda Nui shut down as well, so the Energy Storms stopped. Av-Matoran who used to live under the Southern Continent were dropped into the cavern on huge stalactites, and forced to set up villages there.Eventually, Vamprah discovered the hole in the Southern Continent, and the Brotherhood of Makuta invaded Karda Nui. The Makuta began corrupting Av-Matoran with Shadow Leeches and Vamprah's Kanohi Avsa, and the remaining Av-Matoran began a desperate war, which they had almost lost entirely when the Toa Nuva arrived.The Toa Nuva, with new adaptive armor, eventually discovered the Shadow Leech Hive, and began to plan a way to enter it without being noticed. At the same time, the Mask of Life, which had fallen to the bottom of Karda Nui, made a new, Toa-like body and a flying Skyboard, which it used to fly towards the Toa Nuva.The Toa Nuva, along with "Toa" Ignika, infiltrated the hive, and brought it down with Ignika's help. They fought the Makuta in an all-out battle in the skies, and the Makuta were forced to retreat.At the same time, Tahu, Onua, and Gali had gone to the Swamp of Secrets. They found Keystones and the Codrex, and battled Krika, Gorast, and Bitil. When the Makuta from above retreated, the Nuva in the sky followed. All six Nuva, as well as Ignika, reunited in the Swamp and drove the Makuta off.The Nuva reunited with Takanuva, who had just returned from an interdimensional journey to multiple alternate universes. All eight Toa engaged the Makuta, and managed to get past them and into the Codrex. Antroz followed them in, using the Chameleon ability to disguise himself. The Nuva found three high-powered vehicles. However, Antroz stole one, the Jetrax T6, and flew out of the Codrex. Pohatu and Lewa followed in the other vehicles, as did the remaining Nuva (though they had no vehicles). As Tahu, Gali, and Toa Ignika tried to find a way to make the Codrex work, the rest of the Toa engaged in a final battle with the Makuta. Eventually, Ignika sacrificed his new body to awaken Mata Nui. However, Teridax had actually occupied Mata Nui's body while he was temporarily dead, and so Teridax controlled the Matoran Universe.Teridax's ReignYou know what, this part's confusing, and BS01 has a good summary here. So I'll just let you read that.OtherThe Nuva... I don't know. Probably because there are only around 50 Toa left, so they have to be a little spread out to work effectively.-Lesovikk is here. And it's officially confirmed that he didn't kill Karzahnii and Krom.-Tahu, and only Tahu, was devolved to his Toa Mata form by the Mask of Life in order to don the Golden Armor. And it's technically Hau, not Hua.

[bonesiii]

If you really don't know any of what happened after Makuta took over the giant robot, I'd greatly recommend watching the Mata Nui Saga. (It exists in video form on a certain site we can't mention but you probably know what I mean. ) I think BS01 has the comics in online format too, so reading those would be good. *checks* I guess not the latter ones.

5. Why are the Toa Nuva always split up now? What happened to the idea of 'Unity'?

Common misconception. "Unity" does not mean "always be in the same physical location." It refers to working together well, helping each other. When the situation demands you go to different physical locations in order to accomplish the best goals for the good of the whole, that's Unity too.The problem they had in the early years was Dis-Unity, or intentionally not working together well. That did make them not want to be around the others, but that doesn't mean that not being physically near can only be caused by Dis-Unity (that would be False Cause fallacy ).I think Meta-Mind's post covers everything else. :)BTW, although BS01 doesn't show the actual later comics, you may want to read the summaries in order, starting from wherever you left off, here:http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Comics

[Click]

1. They were given a list of things to do to awaken Mata Nui, and at the end met Artahka, who gave them his Adaptive Armor, which changed their armor, weapons, and mask appearances. "List of things," aka Scroll of Preparations and the details of their adventures can be read on BS01.2. The Inika arrived just in time for the Ignika to send out a warning signal at being in the hands of Pridak, changing them into water breathing Toa Mahri. By the way, Pridak is one of the Barraki who escaped the Pit, a huge underwater prison, during the Great Cataclysm, and have been looking for the Mask of Life to cure them of their mutations done by the Pit Mutagen. They attack the Mahri in a series of battles, handing the mask off to each member of them, as well as a few others. Lesovikk also came in during this year, to answer your later question, as a rogue Toa who wanders the world in guilt that he got his Toa Team killed, and has a grudge against Karzahni for taking his friends from the Southern Continent (the Voya- and Mahri-toran) and "repairing" them. For more details, see this page.3. The Toa Nuva arrived, teleported in by Artahka, to a society of Av-Toran mostly taken over and turned to Shadow Matoran by a group of three Makuta: Antroz, Vamprah, and Chirox. After a fierce battle, they found the local Matoran population that survived and fought with them. They decided to split up, Kopaka, Lewa, and Pohatu in the skies, and Tahu, Gali, and Onua in the swamps below. The Av-Matoran showed them fragments of the Key Stone, which had engravings on how to awaken Mata Nui, and told them about where to find the rest. The "Toa" Ignika appears as they are going to fight the Makuta and get the Keystones, a being made by the Ignika inspired by Matoro's heroism. They fight for the Keystones, and get all the ones from above.In the mean time, the lower Nuva encounter the insectoid Makuta Krika, Bitil, and Gorast. Tahu discovers the Codrex, a massive Spherical building key to awaking Mata Nui. They also battle the Makuta and regroup at the Codrex. Honestly, I kind of lost the story here too, so I'll just refer you to the BS01 Page.4. He enforces his own order on the inhabitants, killing many, while Mata Nui tries to unite Bara Magna to get the Prototype Robot together. Teridax flies to Bara Magna, but Mata Nui is ready for him with some new friends, and when Teridax inadvertedly pulls Aqua and Bota Magna towards him, Mata Nui crushes his head with Aqua Magna, defeating him. The Glatorian, Agori, and all the MU inhabitants work to unite their societies, and Mata Nui goes dormant in the Ignika. For more detail, see BS01, again.5. Well, Lewa was controlled by Tren Krom to try and save his friends, but when he got back into his body, he was teleported all the way to Bota Magna, and has no idea where he is. Pohatu and Kopaka are out investigating Tren Krom and Karzahni's murders, and the rest are trying to unite the two societies. Not much time for a family reunion, I would say.6. Lesovikk explained above, and it is confirmed he wasn't the murderer.7. Tahu Stars was a "devolved" Tahu so he could fit in the Golden Armor "needed" to stop the Rahkshi and Makuta. Yes, that is similar to his original form, and that's the point, I guess. The Rahkshi is just another form Teridax made, I guess, mostly just the old form with Agori Pieces. Gresh, Nektann and Skrall have also been evolved in some way for some reason, no idea why. Takanuva changed his armor using his light powers to be less visible, I guess. Basically, just bringing back the Bionicle classics.So, if you have any other questions, I usually like to check BS01 first. It has pretty much everything we know so far.

[The Iron Toa]

Well I was typing an answer but Meta-Mind just covered most of it. I suggest you read the serials and look up timelines and other information on BioSector01.I do have some things to add though:When the Toa Nuva were in Karda Nui, the Order of Mata Nui revealed itself to wage war -- that Helryx called the Destiny War -- against the Brotherhood of Makuta. They freed the Barraki and allied with them and the Dark Hunters in their war. They succeeded in taking Destral, the Brotherhood's island headquarters, and in the end they fortified Metru Nui and turned it into a target as bait for the Brotherhood. When Mata Nui was awakened, the Makuta of Karda Nui were all killed by the energy storms, for Teridax had betrayed them. The Av-Matoran had been evacuated and the Toa flew off just in time. They arrived in time to help end the Battle of Metru Nui, and Teridax used his new powers over the universe to sink the Brotherhood's ships. The Toa and Matoran thought all was well, but Teridax soon revealed that his plan had succeeded.Most of his fellow Makuta had been killed off by then, just as he wanted, and the rest he forced to create Kraata and Rahkshi for him before killing them too, with the exception of Miserix. He destroyed Daxia, the Order of Mata Nui headquarters, and had Rahkshi take over Odina. He appointed Ahkmou the 'Turaga' of Metru Nui, who made his fellow Matoran create statues honoring Teridax. He could control the environment of the Matoran Universe but mostly relied on Rahkshi, Visorak, and Exo-Toa to enforce his will. He also convinced and bullied many Skakdi into joining him, most prominently Nektann, who had allied with the Order of Mata Nui during the Destiny War. After taking months to become accustomed to his body and crush internal rebellions (though he left most characters we know alive), he flew to Bara Magna. He sent his minions south to his feet to exit the Matoran Universe and invaded Bara Magna, and the Toa and their allies followed. Oh, well you probably don't know what Bara Magna is. Oh boy. Well, first let me answer your question about the Toa Nuva splitting up: they split up for some of the tasks listed on the Scroll, and were back together before they were sent to Karda Nui. During Teridax's reign, it was too dangerous from them to stay together. Now there's a lot to do in a big world and there aren't a lot of Toa, so that's a reason they're still apart.So, do you want someone to explain Bara Magna and Spherus Magna to you or do you just want to look it up? Sorry, but there's kind of a lot to say.

[Toa Kopaka TJByrum]

I'm satisfied, thanks. And sorry, I didn't know if BS01 was a good source or not.Anyway, at least I'm up to date and know what's going on! I'm glad they finally decided to do the Toa Nuva justice... especially after replacing them with the Toa Metru and the Toa Inika... and they also had them defeated easily by the Piraka, and then in one blow by Brutaka. I actually felt griefened and saddened when I read those books a few years ago.... my favorite heroes, all defeated in seemingly embarassing ways. I don't think they should have made that happen to the Toa Nuva.Kopaka is, and has always, been my favorite Toa and character without a doubt... in fact - he's still one of my top characters. I'm glad he's still alive and kickin'. I'm also glad he and Pohatu are still together.

[The Iron Toa]

I was confused by why the Toa Nuva fared so poorly against Piraka, but there was a recent topic in which it was discussed and explained quite well. Ah, here it is. And BS01 is a good source, though I find not everything is there. Some people might have information from books or Greg quotes that hasn't been added, so it pays to post to ask any questions here that the site doesn't answer.

[Toa Kopaka TJByrum]

I was also confused Iron Toa, and it made me quite mad.The original heroes, the Toa Mata/Nuva, who were our original characters. We followed their adventures on Mata Nui, defeating corrupted Rahi, Makuta, the Bohrok, the Bohrok-Kal, the Bahrag, the Rahkshi, etc... and then they go to Voya Nui and basically get schooled in a showdown with the Piraka... then get rescued, only to have the same thing happen, except by Brutaka... in one blow.I don't know... it just wasn't right doing that to our heroes...It's like in "Marvel's The Avengers 2", if Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and the Hulk show up in the first five minutes of the movie, get beaten pretty badly, get rescued, and then get beat again... and the whole team a few other heroes - who are not Avengers at all - show up and kick the villain's tail all of a sudden. You just shouldn't do it.I would have preferred the Nuva be defeated, then imprisoned, then the Inika be defeated, then they all team up and beat the Piraka together.

[bonesiii]

I was also confused Iron Toa, and it made me quite mad.The original heroes, the Toa Mata/Nuva, who were our original characters. We followed their adventures on Mata Nui, defeating corrupted Rahi, Makuta, the Bohrok, the Bohrok-Kal, the Bahrag, the Rahkshi, etc... and then they go to Voya Nui and basically get schooled in a showdown with the Piraka... then get rescued, only to have the same thing happen, except by Brutaka... in one blow.I don't know... it just wasn't right doing that to our heroes...

Well, I think it's best to keep in mind that there are personal preferences involved, and that this is a character-driven story. This doesn't mean you have to end up liking it, but it made storyline sense for them to get defeated like that in that situation. And personally, I like it when heroes don't always win. It's much more realistic and enables us to relate to them better. I don't always win, yanno?In other words, I don't think it's best to say an author should step in, when writing a story, and rescue fictional characters from 'experiencing' bad things. Yanno? They're fictional, and can't actually experience anything. But we can experience defeats, and we do. If in real life, we are not always rescued from defeat, then neither should fictional characters be, yanno?And a much greater story comes out of it, because the defeat forces the heroes to learn from their mistakes and come away stronger. Tahu today, though fictional, is better than he ever was, because he had to go through that forge of trials. Much as we can do that. ^_^That said, there was an outside-of-story reason the Nuva had to not be centerstage (sets) and a strong case can be made that 2006 should have been a return of Toa Nuva sets. I think they had made an unwise promise in 2003 that the Nuva wouldn't be transformed again, as a kneejerk reaction to what was in turn kneejerk reactions against transformation. Fans who made that criticism against it hadn't really thought through the consequences of it -- in a toy-based story you need to have your heroes transform in some way in order to be the latest round of sets again. And after two years of focus on different heroes, even if it was all flashbacks, fans were expecting -- were eager for -- a return of the Nuva. So I think that threw people for a loop, and you might be one of them, and I get that.Finding the Mask of Life could have been seen as one stage that would have been necessary in reawakening Mata Nui; it was, after all, used for it in 2008. They could have even used the adaptive armor explanation early, though maybe they hadn't yet thought of that way around that promise against transformation. Then, 2007 could have been brand-new heroes; Jaller, etc. specifically either saving Mata Nui's life (as they expected it to be) or reviving him (as it would turn out). Then back to 2008 with adaptive armor again or whatever with the Nuva. I think fans would have connected to that much better than how it turned out in general.But personally, I think that while an alternative like this is in hindsight clearly a better choice, and others like many of us fans might have made it even without the benefit of hindsight, there were realistic reasons LEGO simply didn't think of it at the time, that are downsides, but they exist. So I think once you accept that in the real world some mistakes are going to be made along the way and forgive them of that, there is a great story benefit out of how it turned out; that the heroes face real defeats and disappointments sometimes.Also, once you decide that the Nuva aren't going to get a transformation, then in-story how it happened is how it really would happen. To realistically defeat the Piraka I think they would have had to become the Toa Inika -- Toa Inika Tahu, Toa Inika Kopaka, etc. There's really no in-plot reason why they MUST get a transformation, so that's a decision that is left to the author and they picked one way, others preferred another.

I would have preferred the Nuva be defeated, then imprisoned, then the Inika be defeated, then they all team up and beat the Piraka together.

I don't think that would have worked, because then you're bothering to make a new line of heroes, and then you're saying, "but these guys didn't really have what it took." It doesn't make story sense that a world that's all about assigning heroes certain destinies wouldn't give them what they needed, yanno? Also there were LEGO rules about how much story time characters who aren't available anymore as sets could have. If they all worked closely together to beat the Piraka, how do you keep the Nuva out of the comic version of that, for example?I think it would either have to be the Nuva are the Inika (or whatever to call the new round of transformed Nuva), or the Nuva didn't even go to Voya Nui in the first place so they didn't suffer that defeat; they went off to begin rewakening Mata Nui in other ways as a side story, like freeing the Bahrag, etc. while new characters played center stage on Voya Nui. Edited October 4, 2012 by bonesiii

[Toa Kopaka TJByrum]

Oh... I never thought of that.... Toa Nuva as Inika.It's kind of lame that they would have to keep goign through transformations, but honestly, I would have preferred them turn into Inika. Like they defeated, then turn into Inika, and bam!But I suppose it was good for them to hand the torch to the main matoran characters. I guess ONE of the Toa Nuva would be dead now though, considering Matoro had to sacrifice himself, who would have taken his place?Still... I can't help but be confused by why the decision was made for the most powerful Toa in the Matoran Universe to be defeated by a bunch of gangsters. But I understand all of your points about WHY it happened, I just don't get why they LEGO let it happen."In Marvel's The Avengers 2, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and the Hulk have been defeated and captured by a gang of outlaws. Fortunately, Bucky Barnes, Pepper Pots, Jane Foster, and Betty Ross have received their own powers and will have to rescue the original Avengers and defeat the gang."See? I don't know, I just think it was a bad decision.

[Gatanui]

They probably let the Piraka beat the Toa Nuva to show how powerful and evil the Piraka are. I think the story explanation was that the Toa Nuva were too arrogant, having recently defeated the Rahkshi (as was demonstrated by Lewa's remark that they "quick-defeated the Rahkshi, which wasn't really the case") and thus underestimated the Piraka. The Toa Inika, however, arrived with an extremely cautious attitude, only recently having become Toa and consequently still insecure, not to mention that they learned that the Toa Nuva, the greatest Heroes and Toa they had ever known, had been easily defeated.-Gata

[bonesiii]

But I suppose it was good for them to hand the torch to the main matoran characters. I guess ONE of the Toa Nuva would be dead now though, considering Matoro had to sacrifice himself, who would have taken his place?

Well, I wasn't suggesting the Nuva would be the focus in 2007. It would still be Matoro. Admittedly though just launching new heroes and killing one (then going back to the Nuva in 2008) would be a little abrupt. I just meant the Nuva could have been the Inika in 2006. There is story reason why they could -- but also story reason why in 2007 it should be a different team with a different destiny. 2006 would just be about getting the Ignika out of the 777 stairs, 2007 about reviving MN, 2008 about awakening him.Or possibly 2006 about the Nuva doing something, anything, else, then two years of Inika/Mahri, then back to Nuva. Something like that. Really when you think about it, any choice would have been awkward in some way or another, splitting up the Nuva or stretching the story out, etc. Sometimes there's just plain both pros and cons to the possible routes at certain points in stories, and no choice will be perfect.

Still... I can't help but be confused by why the decision was made for the most powerful Toa in the Matoran Universe to be defeated by a bunch of gangsters. But I understand all of your points about WHY it happened, I just don't get why they LEGO let it happen."In Marvel's The Avengers 2, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and the Hulk have been defeated and captured by a gang of outlaws. Fortunately, Bucky Barnes, Pepper Pots, Jane Foster, and Betty Ross have received their own powers and will have to rescue the original Avengers and defeat the gang."See? I don't know, I just think it was a bad decision.

Oh, I get it. I think a big part of it was that the execs at LEGO didn't see Bionicle the way we the continued fans did. Part of it was just the natural result of it being a toyline. From our fan perspective, an epic series was started and clearly portrayed as being about the Toa Mata / Nuva. We followed what they did up to 2003 easily, then in 2004 it made sense that we would get a flashback of the Turaga's past lives as Toa.Then a split happened from mainline fan perspective and LEGO's perspective, in my observation. You could argue the 2004 move to the city was the fan split, but I think that was just a temporary and minority-vocal complaint that took fans getting used to; nearly all semblance of that complaint has now faded away into silence. But in 2005 I think nearly a majority, if not so, of continuing fans had trouble with the need to do a whole second year in the flashbacks, since Legends of Metru Nui had given us a plausible enough implication; the Toa Metru at some point went back to the empty city and got the rest of the canisters. We could have accepted that explanation without the need for another round of enemies to invade and slow that down. We were eager to see what happened next with the Toa Nuva & Takanuva.But I don't think LEGO's execs shared or understood that reaction. I will admit I'm not sure how deep in the fanbase that reaction was, but it's telling that in polling throughout the later years, 2005 has consistently been rated the worst year storywise. I don't think that complaint was just a fad. I think LEGO's perspective was that the success of 2004, and setwise of 2005, demonstrated that fans were ready to move on away from the original heroes. But we had nearly the opposite reaction in large numbers -- we liked a short break but were ready to get back to the core plot.So then in 2006 we fans were happy to get back to the story present, and always lovers of shocking twists, we liked the twist that Mata Nui was dying, judging from reactions on here anyways.But then that second twist got piled on with another twist -- some of your favorite Matoran would become Toa now! We took this much more bittersweetly than we would have if the Nuva had returned as many fans had been led to expect. LEGO just viewed it as new heroes for a new generation, and I don't think they were as in tune to how the early story seemed to be setting up a continuing Saga.So that's in short why they let it happen in my observation. Evidence 2008, Greg had to explain to them that the fans were begging for the Nuva to return; they almost weren't going to do it at all. Quite frankly, and I hate to sound so negative, but the execs were a bit out of touch. IMO they definitely needed to have an intentional strategy of listening to Greg's understanding of fan expectations earlier on, rather than as an afterthought. They should have actively went to Greg and said, "where should the story go next?" rather than him having to go to them and point out that the new direction they were taking it in was leaving far too many loose threads to be satisfying.On the plus side, they did listen, and story seemed to largely go well from there, though I think some mistakes in focus in 2009 were made and obviously the early end made some things feel rushed.I'd add too, though, that I do think the Inika connected well with fans. The benefit of seeing old favorite centerpiece characters continue worked whether it was them or the Nuva, so we shouldn't lose sight of that. I especially think the Matoro sacrifice choice in 2007 really redeemed those characters taking the spotlight in most fans' eyes, as it was done in a way very respectful of his legacy since 2001.Anywho, some of my cents. :PAll that said, is what you suggested really that different? Why must defeating the Piraka be personally done by the Nuva? Certainly there's no in-story reason for it. You said you would have them be defeated, then freed, then both teams achieve a goal -- in your suggestion, both defeating the Piraka and getting the mask.But what actually happened was the Nuva were defeated, then freed, and both teams went on to achieve goals. It was just that the Nuva learned something that story was centering on, that we each have our own destinies and if we try to handle something that is someone else's destiny, it's not likely to turn out well. I really see no reason the story can't feature such a thing. :)Also, really in comparison to the defeat of 2008 -- learning that they just put the main villain IN power -- getting beat up and imprisoned for a while by some random little thugs doesn't even make the radar screen, yanno? :PWith the Avengers example, that could actually be taken as an argument for how they did it, if you think about it. Previous superhero movies in that line were one hero, one plot, that hero beats the bad guy. Avengers actually broke that mold. You could argue Iron Man made the big move, but does that mean the others played no major roles? No, they did. This was similar. It wasn't just the Nuva making big moves in the Bionicle storyline. Edited October 4, 2012 by bonesiii

[Toa Kopaka TJByrum]

Thanks Bonesii.