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What Would You Like To See In A Fan Game?

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#321 Offline Emzee

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Posted Dec 18 2011 - 11:04 PM

IMHO, I think we should concentrate more on making something fun, rather than original. An "original fangame" is an oxymoron. I've repeatedly seen fanworks get too much publicity and subsequently killed by the copyright holder. I don't think TLG in particular would do that, but that is something to consider whenever you're trying to heavily publicize something you made that's based off someone else's work.With that being said, I also feel that the project should be of only a small to medium size, since the game is targeted to a set group of people. This will help you achieve what I mentioned above: a well-made and fun game.You raise some valid concerns though, in terms of game development in general. I just don't think the Indie route is as easily applicable here.

Edited by Emzee, Dec 18 2011 - 11:13 PM.

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#322 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Dec 19 2011 - 04:04 PM

IMHO, I think we should concentrate more on making something fun, rather than original. An "original fangame" is an oxymoron. I've repeatedly seen fanworks get too much publicity and subsequently killed by the copyright holder. I don't think TLG in particular would do that, but that is something to consider whenever you're trying to heavily publicize something you made that's based off someone else's work.With that being said, I also feel that the project should be of only a small to medium size, since the game is targeted to a set group of people. This will help you achieve what I mentioned above: a well-made and fun game.You raise some valid concerns though, in terms of game development in general. I just don't think the Indie route is as easily applicable here.

I agree with Emzee; we're not trying to make this game applicable anywhere outside BZP, so we should focus on making it fun rather than original. That being said, I've told a few open-source gaming sites about this project, and they seem somewhat interested. So who knows - people outside BZP might start playing this game too :)

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#323 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 19 2011 - 04:29 PM

Yep, I'm with Emzee and UltraHau. If I'm going to spend the design effort to make something original and unique, I'm not going to shackle my creation by making it a fangame for an obscure, cancelled toyline. I see this project as simply a gift to the community and a tribute to Bionicle as a whole.

What I´m suggesting is somehow make BIONICLE not a theme, but somehow make it inherently part of the game itself.

I actually do agree with this. In my mind, I've been trying to boil Bionicle down to its core elements - the things that, if removed, would make Bionicle unrecognizable, and, more importantly, if replicated in a video game, would remind me of Bionicle. So far I've come up with:
    [*]Elemental powers and surprising interactions between them[*]Unity/Teamwork/Good vs Evil (Combined with elemental powers, leads to some interesting strategies that can even be seen in Bionicle canon)[*]Destiny/Power-up Transformation - this, of course, has to be carefully balanced[*]Incongruity between the existence of bio-mechanical life-forms and relatively primitive civilization[*]Collection quests - "Gotta catch 'em all" if you will[/list]Spontaneous idea: Kaita - Several players combine into a single powerful character?

    Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Dec 19 2011 - 04:44 PM.

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#324 Offline The Lonesome Wanderer

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Posted Dec 19 2011 - 04:49 PM

how 'bout kaita are the leaders of the armies, then the story could be valor vs. wisdom (stupid idea in retrospect, but easy story)
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#325 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Dec 19 2011 - 04:52 PM

how 'bout kaita are the leaders of the armies, then the story could be valor vs. wisdom (stupid idea in retrospect, but easy story)

We've been over this quite a few times: There will be no story.

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#326 Offline Katuko

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Posted Dec 19 2011 - 06:41 PM

Spontaneous idea: Kaita - Several players combine into a single powerful character?

And how would that work from a gameplay perspective? You can't really just hand control over to one of the players, and it would be extremely frustrating for three people to control the same character. It may work if you do it like a Battlefield vehicle: One drives and aims the main cannon, one or two others hold the machine guns; but in the end there are things that set a Kaita apart from a tank: You don't really have independent aim, and you can't bail if your driver sucks.The thing I've never liked about Kaita, Fusion Dance and other such things is just that: The result is utterly confusing. Whose personality is it? Who is in charge?

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#327 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 19 2011 - 07:19 PM

We've been over this quite a few times: There will be no story.

Well, to be fair, I think we were going with Order vs Chaos or something.

The thing I've never liked about Kaita, Fusion Dance and other such things is just that: The result is utterly confusing. Whose personality is it? Who is in charge?

I think it's always been a separate personality formed with the Kaita - though that wouldn't work ingame for obvious reasons....Or would it? Maybe the "driver" that moves around is AI, or the Kaita doesn't move at all, leaving the players in charge of uber-powerful weapons for a short time.Anyways, like I said, it was a totally random, spontaneous idea, so I'm definitely not emotionally attached to this.

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#328 Offline BULiK

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Posted Dec 19 2011 - 08:29 PM

We've been over this quite a few times: There will be no story.

Well, to be fair, I think we were going with Order vs Chaos or something.

The thing I've never liked about Kaita, Fusion Dance and other such things is just that: The result is utterly confusing. Whose personality is it? Who is in charge?

I think it's always been a separate personality formed with the Kaita - though that wouldn't work ingame for obvious reasons. ...Or would it? Maybe the "driver" that moves around is AI, or the Kaita doesn't move at all, leaving the players in charge of uber-powerful weapons for a short time. Anyways, like I said, it was a totally random, spontaneous idea, so I'm definitely not emotionally attached to this.

actually, that could work like in a vehicle in star wars battlefront 2, (dont just shoot me down yet!) where in in gunship, for instance, multiple players can board it, there would be a pilot, a remot control missle guy, a gunner for left turret, and a gunner for right turret. im pretty sure the same thing could be plausible for a kaita, one guty drives, another uses left arm, on uses right arm, and the other.... special attacks equivalent to a grenade maybe?

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#329 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 20 2011 - 09:46 AM

actually, that could work like in a vehicle in star wars battlefront 2, (dont just shoot me down yet!) where in in gunship, for instance, multiple players can board it, there would be a pilot, a remot control missle guy, a gunner for left turret, and a gunner for right turret. im pretty sure the same thing could be plausible for a kaita, one guty drives, another uses left arm, on uses right arm, and the other.... special attacks equivalent to a grenade maybe?

Yeah, that's mostly what Katuko was suggesting. Remember, Battlefront is just a Star Wars version of the Battlefield series, so if one of us mentions Battlefield as an inspiration, you probably know more or less what we're talking about.That's also why we don't really like to use Battlefront as an inspiration, because it's usually better to go to the original: Battlefield.

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#330 Offline BULiK

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Posted Dec 20 2011 - 02:06 PM

actually, that could work like in a vehicle in star wars battlefront 2, (dont just shoot me down yet!) where in in gunship, for instance, multiple players can board it, there would be a pilot, a remot control missle guy, a gunner for left turret, and a gunner for right turret. im pretty sure the same thing could be plausible for a kaita, one guty drives, another uses left arm, on uses right arm, and the other.... special attacks equivalent to a grenade maybe?

Yeah, that's mostly what Katuko was suggesting. Remember, Battlefront is just a Star Wars version of the Battlefield series, so if one of us mentions Battlefield as an inspiration, you probably know more or less what we're talking about.That's also why we don't really like to use Battlefront as an inspiration, because it's usually better to go to the original: Battlefield.

never heard of it

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#331 Offline Waffles

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Posted Dec 20 2011 - 04:09 PM

What I find surprising was the defensive attitude taken by some people here. The topic is What Would You Like to See in a Fan Game, and I answered the question with my opinion. It seems this has also become the base of operations for you guys, but I didn´t see the need to recieve such a backlash. I was simpyl sayign what I wanted, not criticizing your game.Nevertheless, that doesn´t mena I don´t find your game interesting, and I´d love to play it.
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#332 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 20 2011 - 04:49 PM

never heard of it

:oYour new homework: pick up a copy of Battlefield 2 or Battlefield 1942 and let your gaming knowledge expand!If you can't afford to buy a game, download Battlefield Heroes or Battlefield Play4Free.This is very important.

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#333 Offline Regicidal Kaiser Manducus

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Posted Dec 20 2011 - 05:14 PM

how 'bout kaita are the leaders of the armies, then the story could be valor vs. wisdom (stupid idea in retrospect, but easy story)

Can never work out. One person having total control of the Kaita while the other two are observers. Not such a good idea

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#334 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Dec 20 2011 - 08:04 PM

never heard of it

:oYour new homework: pick up a copy of Battlefield 2 or Battlefield 1942 and let your gaming knowledge expand!If you can't afford to buy a game, download Battlefield Heroes or Battlefield Play4Free.This is very important.

It surprises me you don't know of Quake III - it's even more important than Battlefield 2 :P

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Not luck. It's what you do that makes you a hero.
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I have but one destiny.
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#335 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 21 2011 - 09:40 AM

It surprises me you don't know of Quake III - it's even more important than Battlefield 2 :P

Well, I've heard of it, but I haven't played it. I guess I'll check it out. It's 10 bucks on Steam right now...

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#336 Offline BULiK

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Posted Dec 22 2011 - 08:48 AM

It surprises me you don't know of Quake III - it's even more important than Battlefield 2 :P

Well, I've heard of it, but I haven't played it. I guess I'll check it out. It's 10 bucks on Steam right now...

never heard of it

:o Your new homework: pick up a copy of Battlefield 2 or Battlefield 1942 and let your gaming knowledge expand! If you can't afford to buy a game, download Battlefield Heroes or Battlefield Play4Free. This is very important.

hmm.... I might watch some gameplay videos and/or consider buying those games. and I'm glad that there isnt gore in battlefiel 1942 or battlefield 2.and why would i need to do that anyways if i have star wars battlefront 2, which you said is basicly the same thing? [/retorical question]

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#337 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 22 2011 - 09:51 AM

hmm.... I might watch some gameplay videos and/or consider buying those games. and I'm glad that there isnt gore in battlefiel 1942 or battlefield 2.and why would i need to do that anyways if i have star wars battlefront 2, which you said is basicly the same thing? [/retorical question]

There isn't gore in Heroes either (it's all cartoony). It might be in Play4Free though.Anyways, Battlefield is the original, and the gameplay is better designed for teamwork than Battlefront.

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#338 Offline Grantaire

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Posted Dec 22 2011 - 10:16 AM

Lol, somehow I have the feeling this place is a tad off topic.So, I'm working on a bionicle RPG game with RPGM2003.Would anyone be interested in elemental powers having in game (non battle) applications?

Edited by Nicholas of Myra, Dec 22 2011 - 10:16 AM.

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#339 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 22 2011 - 03:44 PM

Hmmm, yeah, we're seriously off topic now that we're discussing commercial games more than Bionicle games... but we have have decided on an FPS project that's going to start development as soon as UltraHau kicks it off! *hint nudge*Elemental powers in the field is a great idea! You could go the Pokemon route, and allow your powers to smash rocks, fly you around, etc, but I'd personally be more interested in Zelda/Metroid-style puzzles using those powers.

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Dec 22 2011 - 03:44 PM.

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#340 Offline BULiK

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Posted Dec 22 2011 - 04:52 PM

Lol, somehow I have the feeling this place is a tad off topic.So, I'm working on a bionicle RPG game with RPGM2003.Would anyone be interested in elemental powers having in game (non battle) applications?

that does remind me of how in bionicle heroes, you coyuld upgrade your characters elementalo power that would let you smash through some obstacles into secret areas, but having some elements breaking open caves and stuff where there is a stash of cordak launchers would be what i would like to see.

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#341 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Dec 24 2011 - 09:23 AM

Hmmm, yeah, we're seriously off topic now that we're discussing commercial games more than Bionicle games... but we have have decided on an FPS project that's going to start development as soon as UltraHau kicks it off! *hint nudge*

I didn't know I was supposed to kick-start development now - now I know, I'll get around to it as soon as I can (read: after Christmas) ^_^

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#342 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 24 2011 - 10:24 AM

I didn't know I was supposed to kick-start development now - now I know, I'll get around to it as soon as I can (read: after Christmas) ^_^

Well, just to be safe, why were you planning on holding off? Do you think there's still planning to be done before development starts?

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#343 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Dec 24 2011 - 11:03 AM

I didn't know I was supposed to kick-start development now - now I know, I'll get around to it as soon as I can (read: after Christmas) ^_^

Well, just to be safe, why were you planning on holding off? Do you think there's still planning to be done before development starts?

Design of the game engine itself (that we're making on top of Panda) still needs to be done, but I don't think that's something a forum can really handle, IMHO. IRC or a wiki is better for that.

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#344 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Dec 24 2011 - 02:15 PM

Personally, I trust your judgement. You've used Panda a lot more than I have and you know what makes a maintainable engine. I think the only decision that matters in that area is the client/server architecture we've agreed on.

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Dec 24 2011 - 02:15 PM.

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#345 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Jan 03 2012 - 04:00 PM

Small update: I finally have some free time, so I should be able to finish the design of most of the engine by the end of next week. Most of the coding should be finished by late January to early February.
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#346 Offline The Lonesome Wanderer

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Posted Jan 04 2012 - 03:22 PM

they might as well rename this "the official call of destiny planning topic" because that's all that's going on. no one can get there ideas in. no offense.seriously
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#347 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Jan 04 2012 - 04:50 PM

You know, that's not a bad idea. If we can start a separate planning topic, then the original discussions could continue in this topic.We'd have to get permission from Black Six to start that, though... UltraHau, can you shoot him a PM for permission to start a planning topic?
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#348 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Jan 04 2012 - 05:34 PM

You know, that's not a bad idea. If we can start a separate planning topic, then the original discussions could continue in this topic.We'd have to get permission from Black Six to start that, though... UltraHau, can you shoot him a PM for permission to start a planning topic?

Sure - I'm on it :)Unfortunately, B6 says he wants some sort of tangible progress before we get a separate topic, so it looks like we'll be using GitHub, email, and this forum thread until I finish a prototype engine :(

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#349 Offline Hidron Nuva

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Posted Jan 05 2012 - 09:17 AM

About the main topic, I think the perfect game should be a scrolling sprite game like "Toa's Quest 3" by Populus. 3D is too complex to make for the developers and to use for the players.Still, if you want to make a 3D game, I think you should use "The Elder Scrolls III Construction Set", used for the game Morrowind. It's really good and quite easy to use once you know how it works. I would try to make a game myself if I could make 3D models.

Edited by Hidron Nuva, Jan 05 2012 - 09:20 AM.

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#350 Offline UltraHau

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Posted Jan 05 2012 - 11:28 AM

About the main topic, I think the perfect game should be a scrolling sprite game like "Toa's Quest 3" by Populus. 3D is too complex to make for the developers and to use for the players.Still, if you want to make a 3D game, I think you should use "The Elder Scrolls III Construction Set", used for the game Morrowind. It's really good and quite easy to use once you know how it works. I would try to make a game myself if I could make 3D models.

I disagree with your argument "3D is too complex to make for the developers and to use for the players": Making a 3D game is simple with the proper tools (namely, Panda3D [or Unity] and Blender). On top of that, all 3 tools I mentioned are both free and open-source, so there is no entry free whatsoever. I also don't think adding an extra dimension suddenly makes a game too complicated for anyone to play - practically every commercial video game title made during the past decade has been 3D.

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I have but one destiny.
-Takanuva, MoL
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#351 Offline Willy Brandt

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Posted Jan 05 2012 - 01:58 PM

About the main topic, I think the perfect game should be a scrolling sprite game like "Toa's Quest 3" by Populus. 3D is too complex to make for the developers and to use for the players.Still, if you want to make a 3D game, I think you should use "The Elder Scrolls III Construction Set", used for the game Morrowind. It's really good and quite easy to use once you know how it works. I would try to make a game myself if I could make 3D models.

Isn't the mentioned construction set just for Morrowind mods?-Dovydas

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#352 Offline Hidron Nuva

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Posted Jan 05 2012 - 03:12 PM

Isn't the mentioned construction set just for Morrowind mods?-Dovydas

Actually no, you can make whatever you want. Once you can use the program all you need is: new meshes, new textures and new animations for the characters, and a plot. If there's anyone interested in making such a game, who can make 3D models, let me know.UltraHau - I think 3D games take a private developer too much time to be made, and usually 3D fangames are buggy and the animations are odd. Also, a 3D game requires more free space on the HD and is slower to download than a Flash game.

Edited by Hidron Nuva, Jan 05 2012 - 03:31 PM.

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#353 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Jan 05 2012 - 03:23 PM

I disagree with your argument "3D is too complex to make for the developers and to use for the players": Making a 3D game is simple with the proper tools (namely, Panda3D [or Unity] and Blender). On top of that, all 3 tools I mentioned are both free and open-source, so there is no entry free whatsoever. I also don't think adding an extra dimension suddenly makes a game too complicated for anyone to play - practically every commercial video game title made during the past decade has been 3D.

3D? Psshaw. No problem. Finding 3D artists? That's a bit more difficult.

Actually no, you can make whatever you want. Once you can use the program all you need is: new meshes, new textures and new animations for the characters, and a plot. If there's anyone interested in making such a game who can make 3D models, let me know.

I think he means "Wouldn't you need Morrowind to play anything created with those tools?"

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#354 Offline Hidron Nuva

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Posted Jan 05 2012 - 04:35 PM

Oh :mellow:No, you don't need the full game. The Construction Set comes with Morrowind but can be downloaded alone, and it's not needed to play.

Edited by Hidron Nuva, Jan 05 2012 - 04:37 PM.

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#355 Offline alpha123

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Posted Jan 05 2012 - 05:01 PM

3D? Psshaw. No problem.Finding 3D artists? That's a bit more difficult.

Finding good 3D artists? Next to impossible....Maybe we could borrow some of the BIONICLE: Next Generation models. They have some really good ones (both models and modelers).

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If the Kanohi masks are a type of technology and most of the MU citizens are Biomechanical beings then how would a Kanohi mask recognize the difference between a Matoran and a Toa?

 

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#356 Offline BULiK

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Posted Jan 05 2012 - 06:04 PM

3D? Psshaw. No problem.Finding 3D artists? That's a bit more difficult.

Finding good 3D artists? Next to impossible....Maybe we could borrow some of the BIONICLE: Next Generation models. They have some really good ones (both models and modelers).

i second that motion. they have some epic models. there are some pictures of them at microsnipe's brickshelf

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#357 Offline Jedi Knight Krazy

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Posted Jan 06 2012 - 07:40 AM

The B:NG models are really high-poly, so they wouldn't work well in a game. We might, however, be able to simplify them and use the high-poly models as normal maps.One thing to keep in mind is that they're aiming for set-realism, so if we want to have our own art style, we can't use their models.

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy, Jan 06 2012 - 08:01 AM.

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#358 Offline BULiK

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Posted Jan 06 2012 - 08:45 PM

The B:NG models are really high-poly, so they wouldn't work well in a game. We might, however, be able to simplify them and use the high-poly models as normal maps.One thing to keep in mind is that they're aiming for set-realism, so if we want to have our own art style, we can't use their models.

but have a B:NG model, put on a cheesy pun off a fake ersb rating (ex: A for awesome, or n for nostalgic) add a cool title, with a backdrop of the title in matoran language, and a backround that looks like a battlefield in ruins, that would make an amazing cover, and also, it reflects of the titles of the game BCOD's name was based off of, where it is usually a lone soldier walking a battlefield.that would be an epicly cool cover for B:CoD IMO

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#359 Offline tosha96

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Posted Jan 16 2012 - 12:15 AM

I'm not totally sure what this discussion is focusing on, but B:NG was mentioned so I figured I would drop in.For one thing, the B:NG models aren't as incredibly high poly as everyone makes them out to be. I've imported a few of the higher poly ones in unity, and they've ran fine. I'm not sure exactly what kind of game is planned, or how many would be rendered at once or in what engine, but I wouldn't think it would be a huge issue.If you guys did want to use the models, an agreement could probably be worked out with the leadership team. There's another project that's already done something similar, and if due credit was given, I don't think it would be a problem.Thats all I have to say, really. If you have any other questions about B:NG models or whatever, feel free to message me or respond on here. Good luck!
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One of the leaders for B:NG, so ask me if you have any questions!

#360 Offline BULiK

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Posted Jan 23 2012 - 01:58 PM

So, e havent heard from anybody anytime soon. how is the project going? any updates?
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