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The Ideal Bzp


Kevin Owens

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Repost of my last entry minus communism.

 

Been thinking since my last entry about the ideal BZP. I present to you Utopia BZP

 

First the whole entire class structure on BZP would have to be reworked. Everybody would have moderator powers. When you would first join, you wouldn't have any. After a month of being on and (hopefully) learning the ropes, the member would be given moderator powers. In order to prevent power abuse, I would have some sort of proposal system for the powers. The members could propose things to do to a topic (Close it, delete it, edit the post etc.) The members would then vote on whether or not that change would happen. If five members were to say yes to closing a topic, then the topic would be closed. Twenty-Five for topic deletion, and ten for edits. If at any time 25% of the votes are no, the change is discarded and nothing could be done. This would allow for lightening fast responses on enforcing the rules.

 

Now there would be two classes above the standard member, the moderator and the admin who would be elected by the members. The Moderator would work just like the ones we have now do. They wouldn't need to have aproval for their proposed changes and could go ahead and make them. Admins would be the same as moderators except they would have the power to suspend the moderator powers from those who abuse it. In order to prevent brand new users who don't know the rules from becoming a Moderator or admin, you would have to be a member for six months to run for Moderator and a year to run for Admin.

 

Now here's how we would elect people to run for Moderator and Admin. Mods would have an election every quarter and Admins every half. Members who have been here for a month and have no bad marks in that time will have one admin recomendation and three moderator recomendations. You would then nominate who you would want to run for Moderator and Admin. Obviously, you can not nominate yourself. In order to be put in the running, you would have to have thirty recomendations for Admin and fifteen for Moderator. When everybody had been elected, we would have a system on who you wanted to be Moderator/Admin from best to worse. Depending on how you rank that person would depend on how many electoral votes he/she would get. The ones with the most points get the position. In order to prevent discrimination, who you voted for would not be announced. The number of Mods/Admins we would have would be dependent on the active membership. The more activity we have, the more mods and Admins we would need and have.

 

Now then, I have no doubt that some users would abuse this system. If for some reason a member believes that a user is abusing his power, a member can attempt to freeze the abusers account by proposing so. Twenty-Five votes for yes and his account is frozen from all moderator abilities and his account brought to the attention of the Admins. The Admins review the case and vote on whether or not his account should be deprived of moderator abilities. Once again, Moderators can bypass this ability by instantly freezing someones account and forwarding the case to the Admins.

 

Now there might be Mods/Admins who abuse their powers. If this is so, a member can protest the Moderator/admin and a case is opened. Fifty votes for yes on a Moderator and his account is frozen and the case brought before the admins. A hundered votes for an Admin in order for his account to be frozen and brought before the other Admins. Once again voting determines whether or not the Moderator/Admin keeps his position.

 

The main changes that his would bring about would be a more democratic BZP. Unpopular staff would be weeded out and more popular ones installed. This would also help prevent against power abuse from the mods. The moderator-members would allow for instant reaction towards rule-breakers and free up the time of the staff for more important things. Of course the time are all tempormental, we haven't seen this system in action so times/votes would need to be increased/decreased depending on what works.

 

Now let's go over some rules I would change for the Utopia BZP. With the new system in place, flame wars could be deftly stopped if they arose. Second, Avatars would be bumped up to 100X100. Staff would not be allowed bigger avatars (that means you Omi. :P) There would be no hard and fast size limit for sigs, they would have to be kept in reason (e.g. no 600X600 sigs.) IF need be we would implement a 450X250 limit. If the dial up users have a problem with this, they have the option of getting rid of avatars and sig images right now. The definition of flaming would be a little less harsh and spamming would be dealt with more harshly.

 

Now then some people have expressed concern that a dictator might attempt to upsurp the Utopia and install himself as a dictator. First, the chance of this happening is much more likely to happen in this current system than the proposed. Second, let me introduce to my little friend. I like to call him Bruce, but you can call him IPB Admin. Basically he works as a back door to the whole site. If the admins get hacked or an admin goes rogue, they use this account to set everything back to normal.

 

So what do you think of the Utopia BZP?

44 Comments


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Not everyone in Utopia has moderator powers. The community as a whole has moderator powers.

Community = Everyone

 

-Omi

Point still stands that although the individual members do not have moderator powers the community does.

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Not everyone in Utopia has moderator powers. The community as a whole has moderator powers.

Community = Everyone

 

-Omi

Point still stands that although the individual members do not have moderator powers the community does.

Then it would be considerate that you word things correctly and specifically.

 

Because this is what you said:

Everybody would have moderator powers.

 

-Omi

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Not everyone in Utopia has moderator powers. The community as a whole has moderator powers.

Community = Everyone

 

-Omi

Point still stands that although the individual members do not have moderator powers the community does.

Then it would be considerate that you word things correctly and specifically.

 

Because this is what you said:

Everybody would have moderator powers.

 

-Omi

I apologize if I am not being specific enough. However if you were to go back and read my actuall entry...

 

In order to prevent power abuse, I would have some sort of proposal system for the powers. The members could propose things to do to a topic (Close it, delete it, edit the post etc.) The members would then vote on whether or not that change would happen. If five members were to say yes to closing a topic, then the topic would be closed. Twenty-Five for topic deletion, and ten for edits. If at any time 25% of the votes are no, the change is discarded and nothing could be done. This would allow for lightening fast responses on enforcing the rules.

 

Hence me saying that while the individual member does not have the Moderator powers the community as a whole does. If for some reason a later post of mine seems to contradict the original entry, please bring it to my attention so that I can clarify instead of wasting a whole slew of entries debating on what my actuall words were and what I was trying to say.

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The idea has a weak base because of the undertones of communism. Communism doesn't work. Redistribution of power would fail like the redistribution of wealth in the real world would fail: Stupid people would end up losing their power, smart people would get power, and most of the people who had power before the redistribution would regain it. Not to

 

Oh, and fun fact:

From Greek ουτοπία (ootopia) "no (such) place", a term coined by Sir Thomas More, from Ancient Greek prefix ου (oo) "not, no" + τόπος (topos) "place, region", metaph. "occasion, opportunity".

That's from Wiktionary. Thomas More invented the word for a satirical treatise.

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You know what I love. When I spend two pages debating a point with some one only to have some one come and bring that point up again.

 

Read the whole entry including the comments plzkthnxbai.

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You know what I love. When I spend two pages debating a point with some one only to have some one come and bring that point up again.

 

Read the whole entry including the comments plzkthnxbai.

I read it. Doesn't make your idea any worse. Somebody could get the bright idea to get people to vote for them in the elections through such clever methods as, say, propaganda. All it would take is getting the sponsorship of a popular comics maker or just a plain old popular member (if they themselves were popular, even better for them) and they could spin a chunk of public opinion on its head. Word of mouth, banners, sig messages, cleverly written topics... All it would take are some tried-and-true advertising methods, and any one group or person could guarantee repeated victory and manipulation of the system.

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You know what I love. When I spend two pages debating a point with some one only to have some one come and bring that point up again.

 

Read the whole entry including the comments plzkthnxbai.

I read it. Doesn't make your idea any worse. Somebody could get the bright idea to get people to vote for them in the elections through such clever methods as, say, propaganda. All it would take is getting the sponsorship of a popular comics maker or just a plain old popular member (if they themselves were popular, even better for them) and they could spin a chunk of public opinion on its head. Word of mouth, banners, sig messages, cleverly written topics... All it would take are some tried-and-true advertising methods, and any one group or person could guarantee repeated victory and manipulation of the system.

Congratulations, you just perfectly described the way we elect our representitives in the US.

 

The whole concept of the election was to have someone who we actually wanted to be moderator, not someone that an arbitrary admin placed over us. We already have a system in place for potential mods who abuse their powers, so we don't really have all that much to worry about.

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You know what I love. When I spend two pages debating a point with some one only to have some one come and bring that point up again.

 

Read the whole entry including the comments plzkthnxbai.

I read it. Doesn't make your idea any worse. Somebody could get the bright idea to get people to vote for them in the elections through such clever methods as, say, propaganda. All it would take is getting the sponsorship of a popular comics maker or just a plain old popular member (if they themselves were popular, even better for them) and they could spin a chunk of public opinion on its head. Word of mouth, banners, sig messages, cleverly written topics... All it would take are some tried-and-true advertising methods, and any one group or person could guarantee repeated victory and manipulation of the system.

Congratulations, you just perfectly described the way we elect our representitives in the US.

 

The whole concept of the election was to have someone who we actually wanted to be moderator, not someone that an arbitrary admin placed over us. We already have a system in place for potential mods who abuse their powers, so we don't really have all that much to worry about.

Ah, but there's the flaw in your plan. US Representatives are not the same thing as rambunctious tweens. You underestimate human greed, stupidity, and hate on the part of the latter party mentioned in the previous sentence.

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You know what I love. When I spend two pages debating a point with some one only to have some one come and bring that point up again.

 

Read the whole entry including the comments plzkthnxbai.

I read it. Doesn't make your idea any worse. Somebody could get the bright idea to get people to vote for them in the elections through such clever methods as, say, propaganda. All it would take is getting the sponsorship of a popular comics maker or just a plain old popular member (if they themselves were popular, even better for them) and they could spin a chunk of public opinion on its head. Word of mouth, banners, sig messages, cleverly written topics... All it would take are some tried-and-true advertising methods, and any one group or person could guarantee repeated victory and manipulation of the system.

Congratulations, you just perfectly described the way we elect our representitives in the US.

 

The whole concept of the election was to have someone who we actually wanted to be moderator, not someone that an arbitrary admin placed over us. We already have a system in place for potential mods who abuse their powers, so we don't really have all that much to worry about.

Ah, but there's the flaw in your plan. US Representatives are not the same thing as rambunctious tweens. You underestimate human greed, stupidity, and hate on the part of the latter party mentioned in the previous sentence.

 

You underestimate the power of greed and stupidity of the US Representatives who can be just as easily manipulated by the lobyists as the teen can be manipulated by his peers.

 

Link to comment
You know what I love. When I spend two pages debating a point with some one only to have some one come and bring that point up again.

 

Read the whole entry including the comments plzkthnxbai.

I read it. Doesn't make your idea any worse. Somebody could get the bright idea to get people to vote for them in the elections through such clever methods as, say, propaganda. All it would take is getting the sponsorship of a popular comics maker or just a plain old popular member (if they themselves were popular, even better for them) and they could spin a chunk of public opinion on its head. Word of mouth, banners, sig messages, cleverly written topics... All it would take are some tried-and-true advertising methods, and any one group or person could guarantee repeated victory and manipulation of the system.

Congratulations, you just perfectly described the way we elect our representitives in the US.

 

The whole concept of the election was to have someone who we actually wanted to be moderator, not someone that an arbitrary admin placed over us. We already have a system in place for potential mods who abuse their powers, so we don't really have all that much to worry about.

Ah, but there's the flaw in your plan. US Representatives are not the same thing as rambunctious tweens. You underestimate human greed, stupidity, and hate on the part of the latter party mentioned in the previous sentence.

 

You underestimate the power of greed and stupidity of the US Representatives who can be just as easily manipulated by the lobyists as the teen can be manipulated by his peers.

I was going to say 'On the part of both parties mentioned in the previous sentence', but I didn't want to be political. Ah well.

 

Your arguement is not particularly convincing as to the validity of this system. You're talking about a complex politically-based voting system in which the outcome resides largely in the opinion of whoever votes the fastest. On a site for a franchise aimed at kids, that tries to be kid friendly.

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Because as we all know whoever gets the most votes in the first day clearly wins.

 

The system can work because it works every day in the world.

 

Complex? This is hardly complex. The only thing that would be complex would be the coding, but the system's already partially in place due to the poll system.

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Because as we all know whoever gets the most votes in the first day clearly wins.

 

The system can work because it works every day in the world.

 

Complex? This is hardly complex. The only thing that would be complex would be the coding, but the system's already partially in place due to the poll system.

I'd say it's pretty complex for the kids that make up most of BZP. Is it even worth changing the system? There's nothing wrong with it. Maybe something wrong with the people, but not with the system. Your system would work only if we weren't people, because people are the wild card to everything.

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Because as we all know whoever gets the most votes in the first day clearly wins.

 

The system can work because it works every day in the world.

 

Complex? This is hardly complex. The only thing that would be complex would be the coding, but the system's already partially in place due to the poll system.

I'd say it's pretty complex for the kids that make up most of BZP. Is it even worth changing the system? There's nothing wrong with it. Maybe something wrong with the people, but not with the system. Your system would work only if we weren't people, because people are the wild card to everything.

This system doesn't work because it doesn't have an effective way to deal with admins that go rogue and let other staff members get away with the rules, such as I don't know, flaming. The system is not complex at all. If people can understand the concept of voting for someone that you like, they can understand this system.

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Voting for people you like is not the same as voting for somebody who you know would make a good staff member. Now, it's hard to explain why you should be politically aware/informed to kids, I've tried it myself and seen others try. And I acquiesce to the fact that there was an error in my judgement. The system is not at fault, but some of the rules the system employs, and of course the people those rules were invented to deal with, may be at fault. Therefore, you can calibrate the rules to lessen the wild card factor of the people, but no matter what, there is no way the system or the rules for dealing with power abuse can solve the issue of the fact that people might behave, and people will probably behave if given incentive to behave, but people will often disobey that incentive and misbehave for no reason or an invalid one, and that those people might be dealt with, and there might be incentive to deal with people, but somehow there is the chance they will not be dealt with.
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Voting for people you like is not the same as voting for somebody who you know would make a good staff member. Now, it's hard to explain why you should be politically aware/informed to kids, I've tried it myself and seen others try. And I acquiesce to the fact that there was an error in my judgement. The system is not at fault, but some of the rules the system employs, and of course the people those rules were invented to deal with, may be at fault. Therefore, you can calibrate the rules to lessen the wild card factor of the people, but no matter what, there is no way the system or the rules for dealing with power abuse can solve the issue of the fact that people might behave, and people will probably behave if given incentive to behave, but people will often disobey that incentive and misbehave for no reason or an invalid one, and that those people might be dealt with, and there might be incentive to deal with people, but somehow there is the chance they will not be dealt with.

Nice wall of text.

 

From what I can gather, your main problem with the system is 'lol politikz.' There's nothing political about this just like there's nothing political about our current system. Yes, you can draw similarities between my system and the democratic. You could also draw the similarities between the current system and an autocracy.

 

You also seem to have a problem with the fact that this system might not work. So you're basically saying "If it ain't broke. Don't fix it." However there is something wrong with the current system, the opening for potential power abuse. This system allows the possibilty of curbing power abuse while our current one doesn't.

 

As for the incintive for members to disobey, they already do. I'm not offering a system where no one disobeys. I'm offering a system that allows for quicker response to potenital trouble makers and the ability to choose our own moderators instead of some admin who could possibly choose mods that suit his own purpouse.

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Voting for people you like is not the same as voting for somebody who you know would make a good staff member. Now, it's hard to explain why you should be politically aware/informed to kids, I've tried it myself and seen others try. And I acquiesce to the fact that there was an error in my judgement. The system is not at fault, but some of the rules the system employs, and of course the people those rules were invented to deal with, may be at fault. Therefore, you can calibrate the rules to lessen the wild card factor of the people, but no matter what, there is no way the system or the rules for dealing with power abuse can solve the issue of the fact that people might behave, and people will probably behave if given incentive to behave, but people will often disobey that incentive and misbehave for no reason or an invalid one, and that those people might be dealt with, and there might be incentive to deal with people, but somehow there is the chance they will not be dealt with.

Nice wall of text.

 

From what I can gather, your main problem with the system is 'lol politikz.' There's nothing political about this just like there's nothing political about our current system. Yes, you can draw similarities between my system and the democratic. You could also draw the similarities between the current system and an autocracy.

 

You also seem to have a problem with the fact that this system might not work. So you're basically saying "If it ain't broke. Don't fix it." However there is something wrong with the current system, the opening for potential power abuse. This system allows the possibilty of curbing power abuse while our current one doesn't.

 

As for the incintive for members to disobey, they already do. I'm not offering a system where no one disobeys. I'm offering a system that allows for quicker response to potenital trouble makers and the ability to choose our own moderators instead of some admin who could possibly choose mods that suit his own purpouse.

I know you aren't offering a system where no one disobeys. The thing is, that quick response might not come to that potential trouble because people are biased and illogical, and the quick response to that lack of response might not come either due to the same reasons. There is a high chance the system will end up a mockery of itself.

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This system doesn't work because it doesn't have an effective way to deal with admins that go rogue and let other staff members get away with the rules,

Yeah that doesn't even happen here.

 

-Omi

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This system doesn't work because it doesn't have an effective way to deal with admins that go rogue and let other staff members get away with the rules,

Yeah that doesn't even happen here.

 

-Omi

The way you act sometimes begs to differ.

 

 

I know you aren't offering a system where no one disobeys. The thing is, that quick response might not come to that potential trouble because people are biased and illogical, and the quick response to that lack of response might not come either due to the same reasons. There is a high chance the system will end up a mockery of itself.

 

We've kinda already gone over the point that the system will not work due to the way people act. You can go over Omi's argument with me if you want.

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This system doesn't work because it doesn't have an effective way to deal with admins that go rogue and let other staff members get away with the rules,

Yeah that doesn't even happen here.

 

-Omi

The way you act sometimes begs to differ.

I never get away with the rules.

 

And I can guarantee you that the admins don't even consider that either.

 

-Omi

 

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