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DESTROY. THE. PATRIARCHY.

Let's be real for a moment.

 

mU7arTm.jpg

 

Don't you dare deny the evils of the patriarchy. Don't you dare spit on all the women on whom our society encourages assault and violation. Don't you dare blame the victims of these assaults. Don't you dare try to justify their earning cents on the dollar. Don't you dare tell them what their role in society is, or what you want them to do, or that they should calm down. Don't you dare devalue them because they're angry - they have every right to be angry. And most of all, don't you DARE deny that this oppression exists just because YOU don't suffer it. If you don't care about oppression unless you're part of the group being actively oppressed, you're a cartoonishly evil villain.

 

Women are suffering every day and whether you see it or deny it will not change that immutable, hideous fact. It affects your sisters, your mothers, the strangers on the street. It affects women, it affects men, and it affects people of non-binary gender like me. It's not the natural order of things. It's a system of power and control, and its biggest aid is that it is subconsciously supported.

 

But we can tear it apart, together.

 

You don't have to be a radical to make a positive impact. Every one of us can fight for what is right, even in small daily ways. Call out misogynists when they make ###### jokes. Stand up for women and LGBTQ people. Make donations to positive organizations. Don't just shout out when something big happens - this stuff is a constant, daily thing, so pushing back against it needs to happen every day. This has nothing to do with politics. This has nothing to do with party lines. This has nothing to do with being some kind of hero. It has everything to do with humanity and decency.

 

Be strong. Be resolute. Do not stop being angry. Do not stop talking about this. Do not focus on gender issues, or sexist issues, or racial issues, or LGBTQ issues, or trans*misogyny issues, just because it's a hot-button thing today. The marginalizing continues tomorrow. It will continue until we burn the system to ash. Stay furious every day that women are hurt. Stay furious every day. Stand up. Fight back.

 

DESTROY THE PATRIARCHY



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I'm not sure if this is sarcastic, because some people make things like that for no reason, but that is basically my emotions towards this.

 

Also, don't forget that the patriarchy is also the cause of men being told to be hard and basically just 'masculine', and why being 'feminine' is seen as weak. Like, I want to be really good at sewing, but I also want a six pack.

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Hear, hear. Gender equality is not and should never be about politics or religion or anything of the sort. Inequality shouldn't ever be rationalized away by 'differing ideologies.'

 

Everyone has the right to equality. So yes, let's tear down the system!

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I'm not sure if this is sarcastic, because some people make things like that for no reason, but that is basically my emotions towards this.

 

Also, don't forget that the patriarchy is also the cause of men being told to be hard and basically just 'masculine', and why being 'feminine' is seen as weak. Like, I want to be really good at sewing, but I also want a six pack.

 

Definitely not sarcastic - my nickname back in college was "The Radical Feminist." This stuff gets me really heated!!

 

All three of you add wonderful and pertinent points!

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thats a well deserved nickname because this entry is radical and youre radical and one day im gonna hack bzp just to add a reblog feature just so i could have this on my own blog b/c its awesome

 

(p.s. extra hearts to u for tossin in transmisogyny. i love you)

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thats a well deserved nickname because this entry is radical and youre radical and one day im gonna hack bzp just to add a reblog feature just so i could have this on my own blog b/c its awesome

 

(p.s. extra hearts to u for tossin in transmisogyny. i love you)

One might say it is an issue that's important to me on a personal level. Indeed, one might say that and then choose not to explain further. Hey you want to hear a good joke? Gender. Hahahahahaha PS I love you too.

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yeah dogg, this is pretty spot on yo

all these points are definitely relevant and also awesome

like, dang, this is the stuff that really shouldnt just be swept under the rug because of 'no politics' because tbh this really isnt encompassed entirely by politics, its just there

like, theres a bunch of politics surrounding having kids yet people can still talk about their kids or having them (not in excruciating detail mind, but..)

also let me echo ran in saying its really awesome that you acknowledged transmisogyny (ily btw)

 

truly a most radical feminist indeed

*guitar riff; rides away on skateboard*

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At first I thought this was an exaggeration... But you're serious.

 

I'll make clear that I by no means believe that sexual assault is 'encouraged' in any serious way, shape or form. And I do not believe that women are being discriminated against in the proud US of A. I believe instead that the government is making bad decisions regarding all women, where they are focusing on a much smaller demographic which they could handle better anyways.

 

I know, I'm not affected by it, but I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that there is a different explanation for it than radfems think. Namely, that the gov. is stupid, and not actually mysoginistic.

 

I take part in low-toned shaming, but I also shame "studs" as well. In fact, I heavily and vocally disapprove bedding out of wedlock in general, particularly if they do it frequently. Sorry if you don't like it, but hey, at least I'm not discriminating.

 

I'll call out people who make jokes about assault, and I'll stand up for LGBT (I have many friends in there) people. But I'm not going to go out and riot, or donate to any old organization, and you had better not expect me to support that $@$$% Sarkeezian.

 

And about ####-culture, think about it this way. If a girl is assaulted, 99.9% of people who find out about it are going to be sympathetic to her, console her, and call out the one who did the act. This can be particularly harsh if it's a false accusation. False accusations of assault have ruined many men's lives in the past. Now, if you think about men, and what happens when one of them gets assaulted... Yes, the majority of people will comfort said person, but because he's a man, he is more pressured to stand up and be strong, and as such, he will definitely, certainly receive at least twice as many assault-jokes as the women. Because men are like that. Sure, assault happens much more to women than men, but just consider that for a while.

 

To get anyone who might be hating me now off my back, I'll say that I am not sexist. Heck, I even like abs on a girl a lot! I want a nice strong woman as a partner. But I simple don't believe that these issues are quite as bad as many people would have you believe.

 

That is all.

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And I do not believe that women are being discriminated against in the proud US of A.

And I firmly believe you are mistaken.

 

If a girl is assaulted, 99.9% of people who find out about it are going to be sympathetic to her, console her, and call out the one who did the act.

I will point out the simple existence of the media coverage of the Steubenville Trial and countless other less covered cases.

 

XBox One promoted their console with a deeply disturbing and poorly veiled ###### joke.

 

A woman trying to get fair representation of women in video games is met with a bevvy of death threats.

 

In most states, a victim can be sued by her attacker for custody of a conceived child.

 

 

What you are saying should be what happens.

 

But it is not.

 

 

 

And that is terrifying.

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A woman's private life should not affect her social standing. Unless she's a murderer, or someone who participates in what we are discussing. Neither should a man's.

 

And believe me, the government is sexist. An example that happened last night over here springs to mind.

 

Feminism is about dismantling the patriarchy, therefore bringing down all of the societal norms it has bought about, such as men being told to be strong and women being told to bear children and raise them and stay in the kitchen.

 

Also, saying that you're not sexist kind of makes you sound like you're saying, "I'm not a misogynist, but women are evil." Not exactly that, but it is seriously not encouraged.

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I'll make clear that I by no means believe that sexual assault is 'encouraged' in any serious way, shape or form. And I do not believe that women are being discriminated against in the proud US of A.

This isn't limited to the United States, and you can deny it all you want, but you're flat-out wrong. The patriarchal society is a long-running establishment. It's not necessarily conscious - leaders and citizens aren't (usually) actively saying "Let's make laws and systems specifically to oppress women." But that's what makes this all the more insidious - because the reality is they ARE enforcing a system that hurts, marginalizes, and oppresses women, regardless. And I won't stand still until that is dismantled and all genders are truly treated equally.

 

I believe instead that the government is making bad decisions regarding all women, where they are focusing on a much smaller demographic which they could handle better anyways.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, and I'm not sure what the "smaller demographic" at hand is - considering women are more than half the population. The fact that they have such ridiculously small representation in government despite literally being more than 50% of our populations makes it pretty obvious the idea of government "for the people, by the people, of the people" is grossly inaccurate. Hey, while we're at it, could we make the Senate less of a white club, too?

 

I know, I'm not affected by it, but I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that there is a different explanation for it than radfems think. Namely, that the gov. is stupid, and not actually mysoginistic.

Misogyny and stupidity go hand-in-hand, buddy. Do you really think misogyny is always a conscious thing? Do you think any kind of cultural marginalizing is? As said, even the worst offenders in the government out there aren't sitting down and saying "I'm goingto write a bill to hurt all women" today - but they've been so steeped in cultural misogyny and sexism their entire lives (and so have we), that so many cultural attitudes and traditions they (and we) view as "normal" are controlling and oppressive towards women. And make no mistake, we all were raised in this, and we all will always have more to learn about things we're doing and saying that are inadvertently harmful - but that's why we have to open our minds and educate ourselves, rather than pout and lash back and take offense when someone says "stop hurting me."

 

Do you care about your fellow people at all? Then You'd better stop telling people they're wrong when they hurt, and instead learn why they feel that way (even if you don't believe it to be true). Nine times out of ten you'll be shocked by what you discover.

 

I take part in low-toned ###### shaming,

Disgusting.

 

but I also shame "studs" as well.

This is what we call "false equivalence." You may disapprove of both to a degree you feel is equal, but one of these is supported by a cultural institution and one is not. The traditional, pervasive attitude in Western culture is to congratulate men for their sexual activity and condemn women for the same, and that's basically a textbook definition of I N E Q U A L I T Y.

 

And of course, the fact that you're using the words "######" and "stud" - one of which is a sexual slur and one of which is a cultural compliment - makes me question how "equal" your disapproval is regardless.

 

In fact, I heavily and vocally disapprove bedding out of wedlock in general, particularly if they do it frequently. Sorry if you don't like it, but hey, at least I'm not discriminating.

Yes, you are. Are you so naive as to think you're the only one doing this in the country/world? When you ######-shame, you're one of countless people the woman you're shaming on that given day. Your comments have the weight of an entire society behind them. When you tell a guy he's wrong for sleeping around, you're probably the first who's said that to him in aeons. Again - false equivalence. And what you're doing is oppressive.

 

Furthermore - even without the cultural weight, what you're doing is arrogant, sanctimonious, and evil regardless. No matter your personal feelings, you have absolutely no right to police what other people do in the bedroom or otherwise. I don't care what your supposed moral code tells you - if it's not telling you to stay out of other people's business, it's not a very moral code in the first place.

 

I'll call out people who make jokes about assault,

Good.

 

and I'll stand up for LGBT (I have many friends in there) people.

Good.

 

But I'm not going to go out and riot, or donate to any old organization, and you had better not expect me to support that $######% Sarkeezian.

You must have missed the part where I specifically said "You don't have to be radical to make a positive impact." Small supports are just as important - not everyone has the means to financially support, and not everyone has the stomach to torch the senate, and that's fine. But every little small thing is a positive thing, and I encourage people to find the level of participation that is comfortable for them, so long as they PARTICIPATE.

 

And about ####-culture, think about it this way. If a girl is assaulted, 99.9% of people who find out about it are going to be sympathetic to her, console her, and call out the one who did the act.

False, and statistics show otherwise. Even family and friends will often question the situation and try to put blame on the victim, saying absolutely ridiculous, reprehensible things like "you shouldn't have worn such revealing clothes." EXCUSE ME. WE SHOULDN'T BE TEACHING WOMEN THAT THEY NEED TO WEAR CERTAIN CLOTHES TO NOT GET RAPED. WE SHOULD BE TEACHING MEN NOT TO ######, PERIOD.

 

Especially given that statistics show clothing has NOTHING to do with sexual assault rates regardless! Rates are just as high among victims who are fully, "modestly" clothed - sexual assault isn't, as many try to portray it, a case of men being "unable to control their libido." It's a case of violent power play. It's about dominance, control, and violation; not libido. It's one of the most reprehensible crimes imaginable.

 

This can be particularly harsh if it's a false accusation. False accusations of assault have ruined many men's lives in the past. Now, if you think about men, and what happens when one of them gets assaulted... Yes, the majority of people will comfort said person, but because he's a man, he is more pressured to stand up and be strong, and as such, he will definitely, certainly receive at least twice as many assault-jokes as the women. Because men are like that. Sure, assault happens much more to women than men, but just consider that for a while.

Are you serious? Are you kidding me? You're really saying "yeah, statistics show that a woman is sexually assaulted every two minutes in the USA, but sometimes men are made fun of, boo-hoo, these issues are equivalent?" Seriously? Get out! To even mention these things in the same breath is so ludicrously insulting and terrible I barely even know how to respond to it. You're putting some of the worst physical violence and a little boo-hoo inconvenience on the same pedestal. That's ridiculous and reprehensible.

 

BUT OKAY - let's humour you for one moment. Because the very reason the (much smaller, but by no means unimportant) group of men who are sexually assaulted feel uncomfortable talking about it is, as you said, because they'd be emasculated - they'd be viewed as weak, and often made fun on. This is a direct result of the duality of roles that the patriarchal society enforces - women are "weak"; men are "strong." Men are "strong" because women are not - and a man who is not being "strong" is acting like "a woman"...the worst thing to act like, because women are "weak."

 

The cultural view of men as hard, strong, and powerful is DIRECTLY related to viewing women as meek, weak, and inferior. And the ridicule that a man might face for being a victim of sexual assault is, by extension, calling him a woman.

 

If you can't see the cultural misogyny hurting EVERYONE here, you're blind.

 

To get anyone who might be hating me now off my back, I'll say that I am not sexist. Heck, I even like abs on a girl a lot! I want a nice strong woman as a partner.

Are you serious? You claim not to be sexist, and then your justification is objectifying a woman's body and tying a woman's value to being your mate? Are you for real?

 

But I simple don't believe that these issues are quite as bad as many people would have you believe.

 

That is all.

You're denying observable truth and you're part of the problem.

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*pokes head in*

 

Patriarchies aren't very cool. I prefer demorchies. Demorchies? Firefox tells me it isn't a word, but it seems like it should be. Eh, demorchies, democracies, I just prefer a world were people get judged for what they do.

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I'll just throw out my opinion here.

 

I believe that anyone of any race, gender, or sexuality deserves equal treatement. People should be judged on their actions, not by traits they can't control(the aforementioned race, gender, sexuality, etc.) However, there are those discriminated on a larger level than others, which is why those issues followed and debated more than others. But just because no one is fighting for your rights, doesn't mean you don't deserve them. People like straight, white males deserve to be who they want to be. But in return, they should treat those around them the same way they expect others to treat them.

 

Sorry if I made this too black and white, I tend to do that. (btw patriarchies suck)

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People like straight, white males deserve to be who they want to be. But in return, they should treat those around them the same way they expect others to treat them.

Agree. And that's why feminism rocks.

 

I don't need a "get out of jail free card" for being Cis/white. I believe I am awesome enough as a person to get by on my own merits.

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FANTASTIC you are fantastic, my friend.

 

Can I drop one of my other favorite posts here. :)

 

 


Women are better than men = Misandry

Men are better than women = Misogyny

Men and women are equal = Feminism

 

 

Feminists don't need you to try to disprove or discredit their cause. We don't need you to declare there's not a problem just because you've never seen or noticed one. We need you to please educate yourself thoroughly, and then help us! The patriarchy hurts women and men (both trans and cis), people who don't identify by gender and/or sex, the LGBT+ community, heterosexuals, asexuals, pansexuals, POCs, Christians, atheists, those of other religions and beliefs, anybody I left out because people are so amazingly diverse and wonderful; it hurts people from all walks of life. We are hurting ourselves with this system; holding ourselves back and destroying ourselves. And I'm not sitting here flapping my mouth. I've had 24 years of real, intensive experience that still hurts and haunts me today, and thank goodness for my friends who were willing to kindly teach me and love me and treat me the way people ought to be treated.

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All, let's please make sure we stay away from name calling and insults - it has no place here. Also, please remember that BZPower is a family-friendly site and all language used here should be appropriate for such an environment. Just because there is a filter to block out inappropriate language doesn't mean you should use it here expecting it to be blocked out.

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I agree with your fundamental points here (particularly re: assault), but I felt like responding to explain some lapses in the argument's validity and in rhetoric.

 

I'd like to first make a quick point w/r/t the wage gap, as it tends to be overstated. There are a multitude of factors which to contribute to the wage gap, and when one takes those factors into account, the Department of Labor found that a woman makes roughly 93% to 95% of what a man makes over their respective lifetimes. See the Department of Labor's report from early 2009 (the most recent gov't report I could find.): http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

 

I mostly bring this up because I feel that the notion that all sexist attitudes and all can be traced back to the patriarchy is rather reductionist, and it strikes me as somewhat intellectually dishonest. After all, when every issue can be described as caused by a single root cause, every analysis of sex/race/trans/religious/class/cetera issues is almost exactly identical. They all just blame the patriarchy and move on. It's too easy. This strikes me as uncomfortably similar to scapegoating.

 

What's more, this mode of thought has a noticeable way of de-emphasizing personal responsibility--on both sides. If a woman makes less than a man, it's far too easy to just blame the patriarchy and move on, but we can't just leave it at that if we want to be intellectually rigorous. Similarly, if a man reinforces oppressive gender norms, he's basically got an easy out: "It was just the patriarchy causing me to think or act that way." We need to allow for a greater deal of personal responsibility, rather than blaming everything on some monolithic, subconscious institution.

 

---INTERPOLATION---

 

You wrote, "And most of all, don't you DARE deny that this oppression exists just because YOU don't suffer it."

 

That's precisely why people need articulate opponents of sexism/the patriarchy/cetera, as you seem to be. But moreover, people need to be confronted with particulars, statistics, numbers, and facts, rather than polemic blanket statements. If you make people feel as though they are being belittled, that often results in an emotional response from them, rather than an intellectual and rational one. (Take for instance, the argument that privileged persons are not wholly responsible for their success. That's a huge insult to someone who has actually worked hard to succeed at something, and now we've effectively brought a whole mess of other issues and emotional baggage into the fold.)

 

Insult isn't a motivator; in anything, it makes people shy away from changing themselves. It causes some degree of cognitive dissonance, or else something very similar to it, so people start rationalizing things, performing mental gymnastics.

 

All of this is why I object to statements such as the following: "If you don't care about oppression unless you're part of the group being actively oppressed, you're a cartoonishly evil villain."

 

Think about your audience, which is most likely people who have not given real thought to these issues before. Imagine how they must have reacted to a comment like this one. I'd imagine it went something like this: "'A villain?' Where does this guy get off calling me that? I [insert charity work here] every week! Some of my best friends are [insert marginalized group here]!" You see, by insinuating that ignorance is a moral failing, you have just alienated your audience, because the fact is, ignorance is man's natural state. One must learn about (or directly experience) these issues in order to become aware of them. So why not help them learn? It's far more constructive than name calling.

 

---

 

I also have a few semi-elenctic questions regarding your demand that people "[c]all out misogynists when they make [assault] jokes":

Does this also go for comedians? Why or why not?

"Bad things aren't funny, but jokes about them can be." What do you say to that notion?

Are all potentially offensive jokes totally impermissible? If not, which are and which aren't?

Is there any wiggle room or leeway in which to make a potentially offensive joke?

What if the joke is directed against the privileged group/"oppressors"?

What exactly is "calling out" supposed to look like?

 

And finally, I would like to remind everyone that these are just my opinions, informed by my worldview, and by my experiences most of all. You are more than free to disagree with them, but please just tell me why you do. I'd like to learn, and I hope you'd like to teach. Isn't that the best way to further your cause?

 

EDIT: Sorry for the super-long post.

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I also have a few semi-elenctic questions regarding your demand that people "[c]all out misogynists when they make [assault] jokes":

Does this also go for comedians? Why or why not?

Of COURSE it goes for comedians. If a comedian makes an assault joke they deserve to be called out on it as much as anyone else, because it's not a comedy issue, it's a basic human rights issue. Assault jokes normalize and belittle the struggles of the victims of assault and lead to a mindset that it's ok.

"Bad things aren't funny, but jokes about them can be."

 

Bull. That's said by someone who does not realize they are hurting people or enforcing an oppressive system with them.

If I make a joke about women belonging in the kitchen, what I'm actually saying (besides "I have no idea what true equality is please kick me in the rear") is "I support a system in which women are stuck in strict gender roles that relegate them to only housework and child raising."

If you tell an awful joke, the laughter you receive is likely from the 80 or so percent of laughter that is actually caused by discomfort. That, or your friends are bigots.

The only time a joke about a sensitive subject is ok is if it addresses the problematic aspects through satire; humorists such as Colbert often joke about serious matters, but always in a way that exposes something deeper and thus is a tool for deeper understanding.

What exactly is "calling out" supposed to look like?

Exactly what it sounds like. "That's not cool. That behavior is oppressive and is the reason why many groups are hurt by our society. Stop."

Obviously, I'm not Smeag, but I hope this answers those questions sufficiently.

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BioGio, to suggest that all cases of misogyny, sexism, trans*misogyny, homobicia, racism, and other issues of discrimination do not have a vast myriad of different nuances and conditions would be completely folly, and I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that someone is saying that. It would be equally folly to not recognize the influence of the patriarchy's umbrella over almost all of these. Getting furious at the system is not an "excuse" - how could it be, unless you were dismissing the issue and moving on? Recognizing the immutable presence of patriarchy in our society is the first step to recognizing all the other nuances, and working together to fight against them and dismantle them. Hence, the call to action!

 

As for educating about the issues, YOU BET i'm in favour of that - indeed, it's part of why I've devoted so much of my life to gender studies. But your implication that people shouldn't get angry about this and should always discuss it "calmly" is more than a little insulting (though I'm sure you don't intend it that way - especially given how often women are told to stay quiet (or worse, "get back to the kitchen") when bringing up these issues in the first place. Marginalized groups being angry about being oppressed is NOT something irrational and lashing back against the system is FAR from the "first shot" - the "first shots" were dealt by the oppressive system in the first place. BioGio, I don't know anything about your gender and history, so I've got to ask: do you have any idea what it's like to actually be under that pressure, every day? And I mean actually KNOW it, not just sympathize, or understand in abstract.

 

It’s serious. Women are marginalized and are erased and are oppressed. Feminism isn’t just “making some point," it’s a real struggle against a system that continually hurts women every single day. Wouldn’t you be a little bit angry too? Wouldn’t you get a little bit frustrated? Wouldn’t that probably explode into rage if you were told that you’re going to be ignored if you’re not “civil" in fighting back against the system that is actively hurting you daily?

 

To even suggest that feminists need to be “civil" in “explaining their points" is a slap in the face because our entire society has not been civil to women for centuries.

 

Women and all marginalize groups have EVERY RIGHT to be FURIOUS about this - especially since being furious is often the only time they'll be recognized at all.

 

In a perfect world, could we all just sit around a table and have a quiet chat about it? Yes. That'd be wonderful.

 

But this is not a perfect world.

 

I'll get to your set of questions in a moment~

 

Okay, edit time. Toa of Pumpkin addressed this really well (ty), so this is a little bit redundant, but you asked me specifically, so I'm answering.

 

'Does this also go for comedians? Why or why not?'

 

Absolutely. Why would it be any different?

 

'"Bad things aren't funny, but jokes about them can be." What do you say to that notion?'

 

I'm a big believer in satire, so yes, I think jokes about horrible things can be funny. ToP's Colbert example is fantastic - he and other satirists often tackle complex, hurtful issues in a way that exposes how ridiculous (and sometimes, downright evil) they are. In this way, the humour is medicinal. But if you're just taking cheap shots and making humour that reinforces a system of oppression, you're not funny at all, and you're also a terrible, dig?

 

'Are all potentially offensive jokes totally impermissible? If not, which are and which aren't?'

 

See my previous answer. Here's an example:

 

"In other news, gun violence in America keeps going up no matter how many guns we buy. I DON'T UNDERSTAND!" (Colbert)

 

See, that's funny. It covers a controversial, painful issue - and exposes the ludicrous underpinnings of it.

 

An opposite example, from Daniel Tosh, I'll have to paraphrase. Basically, he was telling a joke about a woman being sexually assaulted, and an audience member called him out on it - his "joking" response?

 

"Wouldn't it be funny if that girl got [sexually assaulted] by like, five guys right now?"

 

That is heinous. That is not funny. That is dangerous, mean-spirited, directly harming someone, and encouraging violent action against her. That is offensive, unfunny, and wrong. Some people will argue that it's the juxtaposition that makes it funny - I might have too, when I was very young and naive - but it's not.

 

'Is there any wiggle room or leeway in which to make a potentially offensive joke?'

 

I believe there's a little bit of wiggle room for everything in life, but the general rule of thumb should be a simple DON'T HURT PEOPLE. Is that so hard to understand?

 

'What if the joke is directed against the privileged group/"oppressors"?'

 

Depends on if it's focused on an individual or the reprehensible actions of the group as a whole (or even the reprehensible actions of an individual).

 

What exactly is "calling out" supposed to look like?

 

See Toa of Pumpkin's post!

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