Sir Kohran

There are other incorrect colours just in that image - Matoro's mask and legs should be sandy blue, and Kopaka's arms and legs should be grey, yet all are white.

Yes, but only two people, not a huge force (as your Napolean comparison has it). Neither had Boxors or any special weapons, so I doubt they could contribute much to the fight. Hence Takua only crediting Nuparu, because he was the only one in a position to do the Bohrok real damage. But the events described in the article unfold in the same order as the events in the episode itself."he came across a Krana-less Gahlok"then..."Nuparu realized that the Bohrok were simply transports for the Krana"then..."constructing the Boxor"then..."he beat back the aggressive Gahlok swarm"then..."Onu-Matoran were delighted to return to their homes safely"We know for sure from the episode that at least the first three events occurred one after the other in the order the article places them in. Whilst it's impossible to know for sure that the same applies to the last two events, given how they're written and arranged I don't see why we shouldn't assume they also occurred one after the other. Repeatedly headbutting a rock? Ouch. Actually, Hapka's book describes how 'the (Nuhvok)'s clawed arm swung towards (Onua), nearly connecting with his head', displaying a capacity for hand to hand fighting. I'm not disputing the value of Kranaing Toa, who were both a significant threat and potentially valuable gain to the Bohrok, due to their size, speed and powers.However, excepting the presence of Boxors, the Matoran were nearly always shown fleeing from the Bohrok with no real way of opposing them. They could hardly be described as a threat, perhaps an annoyance at most.And surely getting hold of them, removing their masks and applying Krana to them would take more time and effort than just crushing/melting/freezing/drowning them. Was Tahu ever Krana'd? I know there was some promotional artwork from the time showing it, but I don't recall it actually happening in the story. I'm assuming you're still referring to the Le-Matoran here - however shocked he may have been, I don't see why agile, instinctive Lewa wouldn't just leap away as soon as they lunged at him.I think the most likely explanation for his Kranaing is that the Lehvak had infested that entire area of the jungle, and that Lewa (as his thought bubble in the comic shows) was so assured that Le-Koro was still intact that he didn't properly study the area into which he was heading. By the time he was aware of the Bohrok, they had him surrounded, Krana'd Matoran or not. Very true, and I think there are two more factors worth mentioning.Firstly, I think the computer game The Legend of Mata Nui was meant to be the core narrative for 2001, telling the story of the central characters, the Toa, from start to finish, incorporating content from the MNOLG and possibly the comics too. When it was cancelled, a large hole appeared in the 2001 story that was somewhat filled by the MNOLG. Had the game been finished and released, I suspect there wouldn't be as much confusion as to exactly what the 2001 story does and doesn't consist of.Secondly, I doubt Lego had any idea that so many of the first generation of Bionicle fans would stay with the line for so long thereafter, and set up forums and encyclopedias in which to catalogue and analyse it as thoroughly as we've done over the years. Sounds good to me. I'm a little mystified as to why Hapka's retrospective 2003 books should override stuff that actually came out in 2001 itself. The problem with this is that it has Onua at or near the scene of the Gahlok attack. Neither the episode or the article include him, and if three of his people didn't make it out, surely he would've gone back to retrieve them. And the problem with this is that it doesn't have Onua there for the Nuhvok attack.The roadblock to trying to reconcile the book's Nuhvok with the episode's Gahlok is that the former requires Onua's presence, and the latter his absence. I don't know if you've read the chapter in Hapka's book, but what happens is that Onua is in the process of de-Kranaing the Nuhvok, when a Va enters and orders the remaining Bohrok to scatter. Onua is puzzled, then heads to Onu-Koro, where a big wave stuns the village. Onua and Whenua then agree to evacuate and the chapter ends.Exactly why the Nuhvok left, who sent the wave, and whether the Onu-Matoran did evacuate isn't explained. Onua isn't seen again until he confronts Krana'd Lewa. The Onu-Matoran still need a light source to see by, as the relevant MNOLG chapter indicates, with them refusing to work due to the lack of Lightstones.Besides, the Gahlok would surely be used to a certain level of darkness, due to having been designed for the murky sea depths.

Yes, but that's when we already know for certain that the one person is leading others. In this case, the situation begins with Nuparu separate from the others, who had fled for the surface. If they'd returned and Nuparu had led them, I think the article would've made that clear. Look at the wording of the article, the other Onu-Matoran are not mentioned returning (or doing anything at all) until after a completed sentence that has only Nuparu clearing the area totally. It's possible, though I think this makes the Bohrok seem more than a little weak and stupid.I think, by now, what's most clear is that the writers just didn't give enough consideration to the episode's situation and its outcome. Then why do they have big claws, and heads that snap forward like hammers?They appear to have been designed with features for at least some close quarters combat. I can't agree with you on this. The Bohrok swarms capturing Matoran here and there is like a multi-millionaire acquiring a few one dollar bills - yes, technically it's a gain, but one so insignificant compared to what's already there, that it's effectively pointless. Were they? When Lewa returns to Le-Koro, there are both Krana'd villagers and Lehvak present. It's unclear how or by whom Lewa was captured, as it wasn't shown (what a surprise). However, I can't see how the Le-Matoran would do it, as Lewa could simply use his Miru to hover out of their reach. I do find it a bit frustrating how quite a bit of media from 2001 that defined that year for us is 'not canon', simply because Hapka's book thoughtlessly ignored it. I actually agree, I wouldn't want to know everything. But somehow the idea of repeatedly setting up for a big action scene, then snapping away from it doesn't sit well with me. It's a consequence of several different people/groups all working on the same story with little or no interaction between them, and Lego not noticing or caring about the inevitable contradictions. An admirable attempt, but the problem with it is that it has Onua at the scene, and there is no appearance or mention of him in either the episode or its article.

Again I don't think this is consistent with Takua's report. It specifically credits Nuparu with the victory ("HE beat back..."), and the other Onu-Matoran are described as returning "safely", which appears to preclude their involvement in a risky fight.And I don't see how three Matoran could've constructed multiple Boxors, cleared a cave-in, located the others, and convinced them to return, all in the period of time it'd take for the Bohrok to analyse one machine. They did, and it's that fact that makes the Matoran victories against them difficult to comprehend, especially when we don't see how they come about (the reason I made this topic to begin with). If Bohrok parts could absorb elemental powers, wouldn't this make the Bohrok invulnerable against the Toa's powers?Which is impossible anyway, as Mask of Light shows several Bohrok that were frozen by Kopaka. I can't see why many thousands of mighty Bohrok would bother enslaving some hundreds of Matoran with tiny bodies and no powers. What real benefit would they provide? Definitely. The Pahrak/Lehvak attack is taken from CA Hapka's Bionicle Chronicles books. They are consistent with the dialogue and events of the comics, but she seems completely unaware of the online episodes.Take, for instance, the Onu-Koro situation we've been discussing - Hapka has Onua confronting a Nuhvok swarm underground, then arriving in Onu-Koro, being informed that Nuparu has been sent to the surface to find him, then agreeing with Whenua to evacuate the village. It couldn't be much more at odds with the events of the episode if it tried.I admit that she doesn't officially contradict the Po-Koro stuff, but she wasn't writing with it in mind either, so I'm not sure how much consideration her book deserves. A fine solution, but I still don't think it's right of Lego to leave us in the dark.

Actually it's definitely the Onu-Koro cavern, because just before they emerge, there's a brief shot of three submerged huts. What caused the cave-in? Onepu mentions that 'the tunnel collapsed' but doesn't elaborate beyond that.What definitely occurs is: most of the Onu-Matoran have just finished fleeing into a tunnel leading out of Onu-Koro. Onepu and Taipu see the approaching waves and Nuparu getting caught up in them. Onepu and his crab just manage to enter the escape tunnel, taking Taipu with them, and his boulder falling and blocking the hole behind them.How the tunnel collapsed, and how Nuparu and the inactive Gahlok end up in the tunnel with them, is unclear. I'm not the one telling the story. I don't see why it's up to me to answer questions as basic as 'how did the good guys win or even survive?'Part of the problem may be that the Matoran/Bohrok conflict seems completely implausible. I don't see how a relatively small population of diminutive people with no heavy firepower could even begin to challenge vast hordes of creatures with larger bodies, greater strength and agility, and elemental powers. You might as well pit toddlers against wrestlers with flamethrowers. I'd use my Huna to slip past the Tahnok, find a mountain or rock formation, uproot it and take it back to the village, switch my Miru on, carry it above the massed Tahnok, then let it go. Simple. What I didn't like about it was the lack of any real plot, the poorly written dialogue, the bland and sometimes claustrophobic-looking environments, and the unbelievably tedious Kolhii stuff.The whole thing was devoid of any atmosphere or emotion. I'm afraid this isn't consistent with Takua's summary of events (that were published on Bionicle.com in correspondence with the episodes).Check it out."Boxor" Drives Gahlok Swarm from CityBy TakuaAfter a vicious squad of Water Bohrok flooded Onu-Koro recently, a Matoran named Nuparu made an important discovery that may turn the tide against the Bohrok menace.Nuparu, a tunnel engineer from Onu-Koro, constructed a vehicle called the Boxor that uses a swift punching motion to knock a Bohrok's Krana loose. The Onu-Matoran made the discovery when he came across a Krana-less Gahlok while trapped with Onepu and Taipu in an evacuated part of Onu-Koro. Once Nuparu realized that the Bohrok were simply transports for the Krana, he used his knowledge to give the Matoran an advantage. After constructing the Boxor, he beat back the aggressive Gahlok swarm, driving them out of the underground city and stopping the flood.Onu-Matoran were delighted to return to their homes safely. "Finally we have a defense against these monsters," Onepu said. "Maybe now we can rid Mata Nui of the Bohrok and go back to more peaceful times."

Couldn't the Tahnok just fly over the wall with the Krana Vu? This is conjecture on your part, nothing in the episode indicates that this was what happened.The episode even ends with Pohatu asking "now what?", emphasising the hopelessness of the situation, rather than any sense of relief. The intro shows four all at once, and there were probably others. I doubt the Onu-Matoran would abandon their home for any small number of enemies. Isn't it the big Onu-Koro cavern that they break out into?And if it was a confined space, couldn't the Gahlok just flood it and drown them? Surely the point of a story is to tell the listener/viewer/reader something. Leaving them with no idea of how it ends defeats that point, in my opinion. I do feel the lack of real fear and action damaged the story's atmosphere, which in 2001 actually had been Tolkienesque to some extent.When the heroes encountered evil in 2001, it was with a real sense of danger and menace. Think of Infected Lewa grabbing his head screaming "Get out of my mind!", before his eyes glaze over poisonously with that eerie sound effect, then ruthlessly attacking Onua, his former friend. Or the Muaka catching Matoro by surprise in the open, letting out a huge roar, and swiping him into the snowdrift. Or Makuta narrowing his eyes, stating "I am destruction. And I WILL destroy you" before morphing into a mass of huge black tentacles, and smacking the mighty Toa around like bowling pins.I can't think of anything from the Bohrok episodes that captured that level of peril. They seem so tame by comparison. It might work once, but not repeatedly, as was the case with these episodes. I recall you once saying you didn't like the MNOLG II due to its small amount of real story, is that correct?

For a company that once extolled the value of creativity and imagination, I find this eternal reliance on a licensed franchise more than a little sad.Not that it'll matter in the slightest to Lego of course, as long as the line remains profitable.

There's nothing in them that hadn't been done already in the MNOLG. I don't see why they'd cost any more to make. The Kini-Nui battle/Manas fight and Makuta confrontation/Bohrok awakening cutscenes are quite long and feature battle scenes. Was the ending in sight when Po-Koro was surrounded by Tahnok? Or when three Matoran with one fighting machine were facing a whole swarm of Gahlok?To this day I have no idea how these situations were resolved. I can't see the appeal of this. Would you love it if we built to Gandalf about to face the Balrog, then suddenly snapped forward to the Fellowship grieving for him outside? Sounds reasonable enough by itself, but then why did the MNOLG show events in such completeness?

When watching the Bohrok episodes, a little pattern becomes apparent.The second Po-Koro episode has Pohatu retrieving Hafu from the Tahnok, who are seen advancing on the village, then...snap to black.The Onu-Koro episode has Onepu, Taipu and Nuparu breaking out with the new Boxor and encountering the Gahlok. Nuparu names his new invention, they assume an aggressive stance, then...another snap to black.The Le-Koro episode has Kongu and Tamaru drawing the Nuhvok and Krana'd Le-Matoran out of the jungle, where they're ambushed by the other free Matoran. We see the Boxors advancing, then...yet another snap to black.The climactic Ga-Koro episodes provide the only complete narrative. Why do the others all shy away from a proper conclusion?It's a little disappointing, considering how complete the MNOLG cutscenes were.

There are other known copies, but their owners either didn't reply or didn't know where they put it in the last 10 years.Are there? How did/do you know?Anyone can claim to have anything. The only way we know Deep Brick has a copy is because he's provided actual content from it. Which, as far as I know, no-one else has ever done.

How exactly are active members defined? Do you become officially inactive after not posting or logging in for a certain period of time? If it's consistent with an overall trend, then it makes a bit more sense. The way you described it earlier ("than the average member was a year ago") sounded as though it was an abrupt and recent development.And as you said, it's due to the internet having become such a fundamental part of society over the last decade. In the earliest days of BZCommunity, the internet was mostly used by narrow interest groups and businesses; at this point, it's something kids are raised with.

I have to disagree with this personally; during the upgrade a lot of people were lost but a lot of people that stayed, in my experience at least, were fifteen or older, and while I'm not sure about it, I don't think new members are coming in all too fast.The community has aged, and honestly I don't think that many have come in to replace it. Might be wrong, but it's just in my experience.The average age of BZP members has gotten younger. This is a fact. The average member now is younger than the average member was a year ago.DeeVee, I think Sweetroll's referring specifically to the average age of those currently active, whereas you're referring to the age of the total membership, regardless of their activity.The only explanation I can think of for why the average age of members is decreasing is that the kids who discovered Bionicle a few years ago are now just old enough to be discovering BZPower.

Fascinating stuff, good find.I suspect it was scrapped as a result of the brief life and demise of the Orient Expedition line in 2003. It probably stood a better chance of existing in 1998 or so, when Adventurers was doing better.On the other hand, maybe there were concerns that rendering the line in motion drama would make its Indiana Jones heritage too obvious.

Really, though, the "main" colors need not be the limits. There can be Po-characters with black in the color schemes, etc.Yes, the Po-Matoran and Onu-Matoran in the MNOLG shared tan and black, to the point where it was unclear who came from where (does anyone remember the Hafu/Taipu identity crisis?). This crossover was derived from the proximity between earth and stone.What's less easy to explain is why several Ko-Matoran had earth's dark grey in their colour schemes.

The Ring possessed her... http://www.bzpower.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/mad.gifAs for the courage you mention to have put this line on ( well, "to be going to put on" ), I think it's the same for Indiana Jones, Superheroes and PotC. They simply don't show it, partially or totally. This was discussed a bit in the thread concerning the line's announcement.I'm of the opinion that Lord of the Rings is signficantly more violent and intense than previous licensed lines, and I believe Lego themselves once stated this when asked why they (then) weren't licensing it. I think the change since then can be attributed to a relaxation in values, and of course a realisation of the enormous financial potential of the franchise.

Out of interest, where do you think (or know) all these other Bionicle fans are?Not on BZPower?I don't think they have to "be" anywhere, really. If they're not on BZPower or any other site, surely it's impossible to figure out how much of the fanbase BZPower represents.And I reckon that any serious fan of Bionicle will probably have looked for it on the internet at some point, and that'll lead them here. I'd be surprised if anyone had been interested in Bionicle for more than a year and not found BZPower. Admittedly, finding the place doesn't automatically mean they'll actually join it, but I still think BZPower represents a large portion of serious Bionicle fans, at the very least.I'm just curious as to why people are talking as though there's an established figure for how many Bionicle fans there are in the world.

Out of interest, where do you think (or know) all these other Bionicle fans are?

What exactly is a Bionicle fan?If fans are defined as simply anyone who knows of and likes Bionicle, to even the smallest degree, then I imagine BZPower's membership is indeed a minority of the overall Bionicle fanbase.If fans are defined as those who know the sets, storyline and history of Bionicle very thoroughly and write fanfiction and build MoCs, then BZPower's membership is probably the majority of fans, possibly even the entirety.

Ah, I was happy for LEGO LOTR until you mentioned this.Its become an increasing habit of LEGO to replace original lines with licensed themes. It (eventually) happened with Space in general when Star Wars showed up. Space disappeared for six years until Mars Mission was introduced. the 2009 Pirates were basically replaced with Pirates of the Caribbean. Now Kingdoms (a Castle line, while I have only one set up, I really enjoyed the concept of pitting humans vs humans again as opposed to the humans vs robots/aliens/dead people/creatures norm we've seen) will be replaced by Lord of the Rings?I know this is merely speculation, but I imagine it is extremely accurate speculation. One final grand set (at least to send the theme off properly) and then in with LOTR. Sigh.It could be argued that some of Lego's original themes were derivative of licensed media anyway. Adventurers from 1998 to 2003 was based on Indiana Jones, Knights' Kingdom/Castle from 2004 to 2009 were based on Lord of the Rings.I think Lego hope they'll appeal to a wider audience with licensed versions of their own themes. Lego Space only appeals to people who like Lego Space, but Lego Star Wars appeals to both people who like Space and also people who like Star Wars but wouldn't like Lego otherwise. I don't know if it actually works out that way, of course.

Any credibility your analysis has disintegrates here.The directors weren't trying to be like Shakespeare. They were trying to advertise a toyline.There's nothing thematic or universally applicable in the movie, nor was there meant to be. There didn't need to be.

Reducing the quote box a bit... Well, the first Indiana Jones had people's faces melting off, and the second had the whole "tearing a guy's heart out" thing. The second to last Harry Potter movie/last book had the scene where Hermione is tortured. Revenge of the Sith had Anakin lose his limbs and get severely burned, and A New Hope had Obi-Wan hack that guy's arm off in the cantina. Prince of Persia wasn't too bad, but still wouldn't call it a movies for kids (although the source games were considerably darker).Indiana Jones - gruesome moments yes, but quite brief and also paranormal.Harry Potter - distressing to watch, but she wasn't killed or badly maimed. Original Star Wars - I'll give you that one, though it happened to a very minor character and a non-human (IIRC).Revenge of the Sith - irrelevant, as the Lego line existed well before its release, so nothing in it would've been considered by Lego when the idea of a Star Wars line was first proposed.Trying to avoid the chomping jaws in the first Prince of Persia...ah, good times http://www.bzpower.com/board/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png

Well, about the adult, serious, violent part, I would say that you could say the same about LEGO Pirates of the Carribean, LEGO Indiana Jones, LEGO Prince of Persia.....But then why can't there be LEGO Zombies? Pirates of the Caribbean, Indiana Jones and Prince of Persia were adult and serious? I wouldn't say it's any worse than Star Wars, Prince of Persia, some of the later Harry Potter stuff, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc. Guess they realized that.I would say it is, quite considerably.In Lord of the Rings, Boromir gasps in agony as he's repeatedly shot with arrows, Lurtz has a limb sliced off followed by his head, Haldir is stabbed then hacked as he falls, and severed heads are catapulted into Minas Tirith. What equivalent is there in the movies you mentioned?Note that this is all realistic violence too, not magical or science fiction.

In previous years, Lego's response when asked about a Lord of the Rings line was that it was too violent. Have their values changed?I'm sure I would've been thrilled about this just over ten years ago, but with almost every Lord of the Rings character/location/event having been illustrated by the FOL community already, I doubt it'll be mindblowing. I could be wrong of course.

I've noticed this too, on a modern computer, certain parts of the game (largely the action sequences) now play at an almost manic speed.I agree there was something magic about the loading screen, with its image of the island and the four shaded segments each vanishing one after the other, the anticipation rising as you wondered what characters or goings on or secrets might be revealed in the next room or tunnel or valley. Perhaps it's the fact that we now know what we'll find that accounts for the loss of that magic.I admit the actual wait was a bit annoying at the time, but that may be down to me having been an impatient little lad.

I don't think it'd work.One reason is that Bionicle is too otherwordly. Bizarre names, bizarre appearances, bizarre settings and bizarre storylines. And not a human being in sight. Audiences need someone or something to relate to.Also, going by Lego's cinematic efforts so far, I doubt all the necessary talent is quite there. I saw the re-release of The Lion King recently, and thinking about it in relation to the Bionicle movies (unfair as the comparison may be), it had an infinitely stronger script. A darker, funnier, sadder, more involving story. I feel the Bionicle movies failed to bring their story and particularly their world to life.Another point I'd like to hear an answer for - who would a theatrical Bionicle movie be aimed at? Parents of young children would likely be put off by such alien-looking characters and creatures, whilst teenagers and adults wouldn't be interested in watching a bunch of kids' toys. I suspect it'd sink in the murky gap between 'kids' and 'mature audiences'.