Kevin Owens

I feel as if my major problem with most forms of representation that I've seen is that they tend to latch onto the minority part and make it a huge part of who the character is.  Like it's always "This person is gay and also X" and not "This person is X and also gay."  And even that last one irritates me because I feel as if putting any emphasis on the gay part tends to make it a focus point of a character, which I can't really relate to because being gay isn't the end all be all of my existence.

Or this could just be my internalized homophobia.  Who knows.

Have you ever stopped to consider that your opinions are unpopular because they're wrong?

yeah well i updated the shipping line yeah so what now

I personally blame the forum updates combined with the fact that I still haven't updated it in forever. I mean heck I still have myself listed as a COTRPG judge and forum mentor even though I haven't done either of those in over a year.

Heck it still has be listed as 19 and I'm over 23 by this point.

Where is the shouting? Who is shouting? I was the only one to get legitimately angry and made an angry post, but I'm guessing in this case nobody read it short of Six and Tilius because they were the only ones to acknowledge it. Yes we're angry and yes we're upset, but for the most part we've been incredibly civil given what we've been going through and what we've read on this site.

Jumping right into this head first. Everyone says that we should be respectful, calm, and logical. We should try to reason. We should try to explain why the other party (e.g. the transphobic/homophobic etc. etc.) is wrong. We should try to educate. We should teach. I would not endeavor to demean those who advocate this approach, but there is some harsh reality to consider. Education, teaching, and guidance do have their place. They are a central approach to the gender squad that Princess Grr has set up, and I will do my best to follow the example she has set.
However there is a problem.

I do not mean to stroke my ego, but I have been the epic center of several major controversies in the BZP blogs in the past year. My entries have caused a spark that set of a wild fire of controversy and brought out many BZP members who were both in support and against who I am as a person. I am speaking about my blog entries about my sexuality. I am sure that many people in this current debate remember them. For those who are unaware of what I am talking about, please read this and this for further information. They are central to the points I am going to make in this comment.

I am a firm advocate of the power of logic. There is no tool more powerful or potent in my arsenal than my reason. I am a disciple of the old ways. I do not focus on the power of emotion to sway a crowd, but rather the authoritativeness of my words to sway those who disagree with me. Emotion clouds reason, and if I could I would purge myself of such troublesome features of my mind. I must be logical. I must be methodological if I am to convince people. This isn't me trying to tell people that "Wrestling is a legitimate sport." or "Crono Trigger is the greatest RPG of all time." This is me trying to get people to accept me. This is me trying to get people to stop hating me for who I am. This is me trying to get them to view me as a human being.

I endeavored to do so in the two entries I posted. I broke things down as best as I could. I took them step by step through my logic. I explained to them why they were wrong, and how their hate was demeaning to me as a person. If anyone, and I do mean anyone, has any problem with how I conducted myself in those entries please tell me. I think I was at my very best there. My patience was immense. My pain was unexplainable. I am always open to criticism and improvement. Let me know if I erred.

But despite my endeavors, it was not enough. I viewed it as a personal failure. I thought I had messed up. If only I had done better. If only I had explained the pain that I felt in a better manner I would have succeeded. They would no longer be homophobic. They would have recanted. If I had been better, I would feel like a normal human being for once.

I now realize I was wrong.

Some people cannot be convinced by words alone. Some people cannot be convinced by logic. Some people will not listen to reason. It is not my fault that people continue to be homophobic despite my endeavors. I am not saying that not all people are like this. I have said it once. I will say it again. Kakaru is the lone exception to this rule. At one point he made some metaphors that were hurtful to me as a human being. I explained to him why he was wrong, and he listened. Kakaru gives me hope that one day people will accept me for who I am. Kakaru is one who I consider one of my greatest allies in my endeavors, and he gives me hope that one day I will feel normal.

But he is the lone exception. He is the one encounter out of the myriads that give me hope. To prove my point, allow me to go through my linked entries and pull out every single example of homophobia despite my attempts to change their mind.

1. Tilius: The reactions of homophobes are humorous and not hurtful.

2. Cinnamon Grochi: Homophobia is a joke. It should be laughed at. I would disagree. Jokes should not be tragic. Laughter should be saved for truly humorous things. Not things that cause others pain.

3. The Otter: It is possible to disagree with homosexuality, but it is still possible to love them and support them. This is an inherent contradiction, and if need be I can link to entries and posts that explain why. I do not see any reason to speak what has been said on numerous occasions.

4. The Otter: All viewpoints are equal. My viewpoint that homosexuality is a-ok is just as valid as homophobia.

5. Velox: Anti-homosexuality is not the same as homophobia. His comment was deleted by staff, but the fact that he PM'd it to me so that there was no way I could miss it makes it just as valid in my mind.

5. The Otter: Homosexuality is a sin. It is wrong.

6. Velox: According to him, me talking about my sexuality and me logically arguing against him and his homophobia was hateful. I ask him to point out where I had been hateful and I would apologize. He never did.

7. Velox: We should simply agree to disagree. About my sexuality. About who I am as a person. I should simply agree that his viewpoint that I am less than human is just another viewpoint and should be respected. I should respect his viewpoint that is against the very fabric of my being. It is an attempt to shut me down, put me back in the closet, and disregard every single point I had made. I think these points are evident, but if not please let me know and I will break it down piece by piece and explain it.

8. Kahi: Religious preference and choice is just as equally valid as the very make up of my being. His hatred of my very being is just as valid as who I am as a person. His hatred should not be muted.

9. Grantaire: My sexuality is not who I am as a person. It's a subtle thing, but it is delegating my sexuality to a choice. I chose to be this way. I chose to be hated by my parents. I chose to be unloved. Lunacy.

10.Tekulo the WindWriter: I should try to coexist with those who hate me.

11. [please do not mention banned members - HH]: It is possible to disapprove of homosexuality, yet still treat them with the respect and dignity of a human being. (Spoilers: It's impossible.)

12. [banned]: It is possible to respectfully disagree with the very fabric that makes up a human being.

13. Graintaire: Comparing my sexuality to hair dye.

14. [banned]: People who get upset at someones homophobia has mental issues.

15. [banned]: You can disagree with someone's sexuality but still accept them.

Look at that list. Look at it. All those instances of homophobia and hate came from me trying to reason out why they were wrong. Look at all that hate. Look at all that intolerance. That just came from me using logic to explain why they were wrong. I'm sure I missed several other posts in my skim. That list could be longer. I could go back and break down every single post and find more examples of hate. I could go to other blog entries and comments. I could come up with hundreds of points where logic has failed in the face of hate.

This is why I am angry. This is why I am fed up. Logic has failed. Reason has failed. My prime tools. My principle methods. They mean nothing to these people. Listen, and understand. They are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They do not feel pity, remorse, or fear. They simply do not care. They do not care about who I am. They do not care about the pain I feel. They do not care that when I read their comments I suffer. They do not care about mental anguish. They do not care that I want to kill myself because I am bisexual.

And yeah I threw that out there. It's time to face facts. These things are real. These things hurt me. They cause me anguish. They make me want to kill myself. I'm not saying this to garner pity or whatever. This me lashing out because of the pain I feel. This is me acting on the suffering caused by homophobia, the posts on this site, and the things I hear every day. Yesterday I wanted to slice my own ###### throat open because of a homophobic a customer said to me at work. This is the reality I live with every day. This is my life. This is the pain I suffer.

And you? This entry? This is a part of the problem. This so called co-existence. This so called acceptance. I should respect others. I should reason with them. I should try to make them understand. Live and let live. Let it be. Don't worry about it. Don't listen to them. Logic will convince them. They will understand eventually.

I'm tired of it. I'm sick and tired of it. I don't want to wait for change. I don't want to wait for love. I don't want to wait for understanding. I don't want to wait for them to realize the error of their ways. I'm tired of this pain. I'm tired of this hurt. I am tired of not feeling normal. I am tired of reading these kinds of entries. I am tired of being put on the same level of homophobic people. I am tired of BZP. I am tired of this 'bastion of safety and security where I should not fear being attacked for who I am' being nothing more than a lie. A ruse. A grand illusion. I am tired of not having a safe space.

I am tired of Princess Grr's shoulder being the only shoulder I have to cry on when I am hurt about these things. My other roommate? The one who shares more interests with me than Princess? The one who I can say "This is good, isn't it?" "She was a true patriot." "This is the point where he kills us." "Go home and be a family man." He gets those things. He should be my ideal friend. But he isn't. He uses the term '######' casually. When I call him out on his homophobia he shrugs it off and says "I didn't mean it like that." He blows me off. He doesn't understand the pain I feel.

I am fed up. I am tired. I will not stand for it anymore. I am tired of what I read on this site. I am tired of reading these contrived arguments. I am tired I AM TIRED OF NOT FEELING LOVED.

You keep mentioning MLK and Malcom X. You clearly know nothing about the civil rights movement because you would understand what we're going through. While their were some radicalized elements and it was never uniform, it would be folly to say that MLK was not a significant person and force in the civil rights movement. It wouldn't even be a misnomer to say that for awhile he was the civil rights movement. He was a guiding force, and the changes he achieved was monumental.

But you know what happened? African Americans were still killed. There were post cards being sent across the united states with black lynchings. Postcards. With dead African Americans hanging from trees and KKK members plastered right on the front for everyone to see. African Americans were still being killed despite MLK's efforts. His pacifist efforts were not enough. While the African American community had gained some rights, they were still being killed brutally and horrifically.

The movement radicalized. MLK's methods were not achieving the results they desired. People were still being murdered. People were still suffering. The Black Panthers? The group so vilified for their 'black power' activities? Demonized by the white majority who sought to crush any form of black civil rights movement they didn't agree with. The Black Panther's original name? The Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. They held survival programs. They hosted them out of churches. They gave out free breakfast for African American children because they were starving. Free medical clinics. Drug and alcohol rehabitilation. They made schools for those who were deemed too dumb by the white majority school system. The civil rights movement 'radicalized' because the passive attempts of MLK had failed.

I'm not lashing out of hate. I'm not being hateful. I'm not angry. I am hurt. That is the wellspring of emotion that I am drawing from because my wellspring of logic is dry. It has failed. It is not enough.

Whether you admit it or realize it, XCCJ, you are a part of the problem. Everyone who advocates your approach is a part of the problem. So long as you say this you are standing directly in the way of progress. You are halting the advance of my rights. You are stopping me from feeling like a human being. You are stopping me from feeling normal. You are helping the homophobes who seek to hurt us. You are elevating their opinion to the same level as ours. You are putting us on equal footing. You are legitimizing their hate. You are saying that we should respect their opinions. We should reason. We should use logic.

And when we speak out? When we lash out whether in anger or pain? You chastise us. You deny it, but you are telling the victims how to act. You know what I say to that? To ###### with you. I am hurt. I am suffering. Don't you ###### dare tell me how to act. Don't you even assume to tell me how to talk to the people who hate me. I won't treat them with respect. I won't treat them with dignity. They hurt me. They cause me pain. I won't suffer it. Not anymore. I'm tired of this. I'm done.

I've been fairly silent on a lot of these goings on but I figure that now would be a good time to step in and talk.

I like the sentiment here, but I am also concerned about the 'if you aren't with me, you are against me' mentality. I know for a fact that many people that are on my side of the aisle (the political right) are strongly supportive of the right for gay people to live their lives how they please. We may not all support gay marriage or civil unions, and we may not all see it as 'right', but the vast majority of us will absolutely defend the right for you to live how you please.

I want you to read very, very carefully what you just wrote there, because it's an inherent contradiction. You say that we are free to live our lives as we please, so long as it does not offend your sensibilities or notion of right or wrong. So long as we don't offend you, we are free to do as we wish. So long as we don't do the things you don't want us to do, we have your support.

Do you not see how wrong that is? Can you not see how I am being dehumanized? Can you not see how I cannot live my life as a normal human being just because you don't like who I am? Why can't I celebrate the same things that you? Why am I not allowed to experience the joys of marriage just because I would choose to do so with a man. Why can't I experience life like a normal person just because I find girls just as cute as guys? Why do I not feel like a normal human being even though I know I am? Why am I stuck being a second class citizen?

Do you not see the lunacy of it? Do you not see the madness? Do you not see how you are essentially saying, "I completely disagree with you as a person and who you are, but I still support you except for basic rights that everyone else enjoys." Do you not see it? You are delegating me to the closet. You are telling me to stay in there. You are telling me that you support me in everything I do, so long as you don't see it because you might be offended.

You are not an ally. You are not helping us. Your message is not comforting. It does not make me feel good. It does not fill me with confidence. It does not make me feel normal. It does not make me feel like a human being.

Whether you are willing to recognize it or not, Toa Nidhiki05, you are a part of the problem.

Having trouble translating the sign, but just have to say that the Blackhawks have the best jerseys in hockey. Fitting, since they're also the best team.

That's not the Penguins.

You pretty much know where I stand on this, so I don't think there's much I can add. You're an amazing person, and I will always have your back.

Love you soul sis.

I still love you ran sama ;;

I know nothing about the Donan Ronpauls but I am tempted to do this just because you suggested it.

Someone get me an avatar and a sig and I'll do it

As a bisexual guy in the transition to becoming a gay one, I can say that his face isn't bad at all. Granted I wouldn't give it a 10/10, but I'd give it like a 7.5/10.

Just a touch pretentious?

(Hi, I'm nobody but wished to put my opinion on this.)

In my vague understanding, the current system is in place to prevent hate speech. People get very passionate about political and religious issues. When there is conflict in opinion, this passion lends itself far too easily in insults and really hurtful comments - from both sides.

You speak of bigots who need to be corrected. The fact is that with all due respect, you are not called upon to change others' opinions. They have the right to their opinion, whether right or wrong. If you have the freedom to express your opinion, they must have also.

At the present, if you are gagged, so are they. Changing this is liable to spark conflict and insults to both sides, which I guess is what the staff wishes to avoid.

 

Do not get me wrong. I support LGBT rights, women rights and equality for all. I was celebrating too on Wednesday. I want to see a society where all people are free to be who they are without discrimination or hate speech. The mere fact is that if you want your opinion to be heard, you cannot ask for another's to be silenced.

I think the main point of contention is that one group of people is discriminating, hating, and demeaning a group of people because of who they are. The other group is trying to be who they are.

Why are the people in the right being censored alongside those who are being hateful? BZPower has a long standing support of equality, and that's something I've always been proud of. Equality doesn't mean that people get to say hateful, hurtful things about other people. That's a false generalization. Equality means that all people are treated the same, and they shouldn't have to put up with hateful things being said about them.

Being a History major combined with like eight years of philosophy training has taught me to view any minor disagreement with a point and counterpoint to be considered an argument. The term doesn't contain the same negative connotation for me that it might with others. I guess civil disagreement would be more accurate?

At any rate we're cool. No worries.

I suppose that is a valid desire.

 

Drat, I conceded your point. I think that means I lost the conversation.

Pffft. Nothing wrong with losing an argument. I lose arguments all the time. Just as Princess. It just means that you've come to a better place, whether it be understanding yourself or the world you live in. You learn better from your mistakes than your successes or something like that.

But yeah Spink pretty much hit it on the head. Human rights should be okay to talk about. I mean I'm sure somebody (e.g. me) would make the argument that Communism is a human's right issue, but at that point they'd be so far gone that we wouldn't take them seriously.

 

(also Gato, I'd show you the chocobo but it was a 3DS swapnote doodle to a friend :<)

Blast. I need to pick up a 3DS at some point.

Let me start off by saying that there is very little more powerful than the overwhelming ability of logic. I love it. It's my go to tool when it comes to arguments. I took Greek as my foreign language just so I could translate Plato in his original language. I love it, and there's very little I hold more dear to my heart.

 

Nice--I'm more of a Latin guy, myself, but there's really no beating Plato.

 

Nothing can quite beat Plato. Also Homer's work will always trump anything Virgil wrote.

 

 

I'm not sure if I understand? What exactly is the antecent of "it" here? The patriarchy?

 

The Patriarchy was the intended antecedent, but really you could replace it with whatever oppressive institution you want.

 

Perhaps I was wordy. Perhaps I was overly verbose. However nobody listened to my arguments. Nobody took me seriously. People ignored me, belittled me, and spat the homophobia I was trying to combat right back into my face. I would be lying if I said I wasn't upset. I would be lying if I wasn't hurt.

 

I remember those posts, and what I mostly remember now is that you made a lot of sense and played the bigger man. There was a time when I though that the correct response to intolerance was intolerance and name-calling: I compared homophobia to racism and religious prejudice, and now I sincerely regret that.

 

Now, my views have changed. I don't think that any sort of name-calling is appropriate--whether it's "cartoonishly evil villains" or something even worse. Hateful insults are not the response to hateful insults; that just perpetuates more malice. Honestly, I don't understand how insulting people for not having your views will help anyone come to see your side. It will just make the bigoted angrier and turn off the moderate.

 

I have come to believe that so much of this issue comes down to education. It's kind of strange, actually, how you've moved more toward one side while I've moved toward the center. (It's as though there were some sort of strange cosmic equilibrium that has to maintained, eh?)

 

Don't get me wrong. I haven't really become someone who insults those who disagree with me. I've gone toe to toe with Tilius several times in the past over it, and I will continue to do so. I disagree with any sort of shaming or insults, but I don't consider calling people's statements bigoted to be hurtful or insulting either.

 

 

What exactly do you mean by "passive resistance"? My vision of passive resistance is the SCLC, a group of people who were outraged over racism but stood up to it with compassion rooted deeply in their moral convictions. They didn't call names to any great extent, but they were certainly effective.

 

Of course, at the end of the day this all just comes down to personal ideology and belief.

 

It does come down to personal ideology and belief in a lot of ways. So long as people are taking a stand against oppression, whether it be active or passive, to be helpful. I've come to realize that being "What you said is homophobic/sexist and here's why...." to be less effective than "No. You're wrong. You're being hurtful, and you're hurting me. Stop." If they don't understand why, then I'll tell them why in detail. In the more political sense, I want more people like Wendy Davis who proudly stood up to protect the rights of women.

 

Also you seem really, really invested in the Civil Rights Movement. That is awesome, since the civil rights movement is in many ways the blueprint for all further rights movement. However it's interesting to note that after King's death, the movement became more 'radicalized.' I use the term extremely loosely, since that's the way I originally heard it. After King's death, the idea of Black Power became more and more wide spread in the black community, especially after it became clear that the change they wanted was not happening soon enough.

 

Interesting stuff. I suggest reading up on it if you haven't.

By that I meant I removed the quotations the second time I used the term as a sign I had accepted my chastisement. I guess that wasn't clear.

 

Gay Bible-belter here. I've heard a lot of unpleasant things. I just tend to be a really passive person, I guess. Kill them with kindness.

 

As for being silenced... I'm still not following. People talk about being LGBTQ here all the time. Like, ALL the time. And the staff is fine with it. It's just when you start talking about actual political decisions you get shut down. I don't see the problem with this.

 

 

Edit: This was @ Gato, but it works for Spink's comment, too. Hi, Spink.

The line between discussion of sexuality and discussion of the politicization of sexuality is a very fine one, and oftentimes any meaningful discussion has to at least toe this line. Generally speaking, when entries are closed, I can understand why - but I don't think it's necessary all of the time and I don't believe that there is any legitimate double standard behind all of this. It's just really hard to judge when something is becoming political/religious enough to boil over into rule-breaking, and I'm sure some closings have been preemptive strikes.

I'm obviously not being entirely clear here, so I'm going to try to break this down as best as I can. I posted an entry about the repeal of DOMA. I was happy that it happened. This is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with this. To be opposed to the repeal of DOMA would represent a hurtful line of thinking, and it would be against the rules. It would be wrong. The entry was preemptively closed to prevent people from saying hurtful things. Why were the people rejoicing silenced when nothing wrong had happened? Nothing hateful had been said. Nothing demeaning other people had been said. Why was it closed? People should be punished for saying hurtful, spiteful things. People should not be punished for rejoicing that a step was taken in overthrowing institutionalized homophobia.

I'm not nearly as eloquent as Gato or Princess, but that is my take on all of it.

 

EDIT: Most of this was in response to Bunda's second response, I got a little sidetracked so it came up late. (I doodled a chocobo, okay).

Pfffft. You are plenty eloquent. Also I want to see that chocobo.

No, I mean people here tend to explode when bigots (I didn't use quotation marks) appear on this site.

I might be wrong here but....

Besides, most of these "bigots" are little kids....

Those are quotation marks, right? Or am I missing something?

I wouldn't say we act like sharks, and those that act out of line should be criticized for doing so. But if we seem angry, it's probably because we are. I'm unsure if you've been on the receiving side of discrimination, but it hurts. It hurts a lot. In the sake of brevity I'm not going to rehash what I've said in other blog entries, but when somebody is hurt by somebody else don't expect them to be calm about it.

That's pretty much not what I said. I feel as if the rules as they stand right now are suppressive as I feel as if I am being silenced alongside the bigot.

I'm not 100% sure what you're saying here. Are you asking for the rules on political discussion to be done away with? That seems... dangerous.

 

Besides, most of these "bigots" are little kids. I feel like the ideal solution would be to toss the "sexuality" thing back into "political discussion" and we can talk about bionicles. Or increase the lower age limit for membership, like some other Lego communities.

I'm not asking for either of those. What I'm asking for is a meaningful change where I am not being silenced along for the bigots. My tenure as staff ended about two months ago, and it's not my decision to make.

I'm actually pretty offended that you put bigot in the quotation marks in reference to kids. It doesn't matter that they're kids. It is not an excuse. What if they told a joke about racism or sexism? Should they be pardoned then, or should they be told that what they're doing is wrong and will not be tolerated. The whole 'they don't know any better' is a massive problem. It's a symptom of institutionalized homophobia. They should be taught better, and I shouldn't be silenced because some ignorant person takes offense to my very existence.

Rage is not the answer. Rage followed by fitting action is the answer.

Yes I am starting off this post with a reference to a MTG card that only I will get. Deal with it.

Now then, I feel as if Princess has sufficiantly hammered the point home to Bio Gio. I'm fairly certain that my response will mostly be not as eloquent as his, and I know it will mostly be redundant. However I feel as if a different viewpoint could help shed some light on the issue.

Let me start off by saying that there is very little more powerful than the overwhelming ability of logic. I love it. It's my go to tool when it comes to arguments. I took Greek as my foreign language just so I could translate Plato in his original language. I love it, and there's very little I hold more dear to my heart.

However as powerful logic is, it can also be too cumbersome. As much as I want it to be, this is not a simply academic problem that can be solved via logic and nuanced arguments. This is a very real thing that impacts people in ways that words fail to describe. It's not something as simple as 'Well I can't paint my nails because I appear to be male and people will laugh at me', although I do admit that is a part of it that gets me sad. It is a repressive, corrupt system that permeates almost every aspect of our culture and society. While it is easily demonstrably proven as wrong, arguing "The Patriarchy is bad. It hurts everyone in society. As such we would overthrow it." often does nothing.

As much as it pains me to say it, I've become increasingly convinced that logic will not solve the problem with the patriarchy anymore than it will solve institutionalized homophobia. If you need any proof go read this and this. See how people don't listen to me. Perhaps I was wordy. Perhaps I was overly verbose. However nobody listened to my arguments. Nobody took me seriously. People ignored me, belittled me, and spat the homophobia I was trying to combat right back into my face. I would be lying if I said I wasn't upset. I would be lying if I wasn't hurt.

I would also be lying if I wasn't furious. I'm still furious about those entries. This fire still burns.

We don't need another logical argument. Logic is lost on those who seek to oppress us and subvert us. Rage is not the answer. Rage followed by fitting action is the answer. I speak not of riots nor a military political revolution. I also don't speak of passive resistance by meek petitions against those who marginalize us. I speak of standing up. I'll let people push me around on a lot of things, but this is one thing I won't be pushed around on. We must take action. We must subvert the patriarchy.

Granted I'm more focused on institutionalized homophobia more than I am the patriarchy and feminism, but I do realize that the issues intersect on a lot of points and both Princess has my backing along with any other feminist out there.

ROLLIN AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND

GOT PLACES TO GO GOTTA FOLLOW MY RAINBOW

Smeag is good like that. Everything I've wanted to say about the issue he's said it better, quicker, and more coherent than I ever could.

Deep stuff, man. Deep stuff.

With the initial happiness out of the way, I'm feeling a lot of apathy and depression right about now.

Honestly I felt that way when it first came out. I knew it wouldn't be what I wanted, so I didn't have my hopes up or anything. Simply undoing a culture of hate isn't something that's undone in the span of a few years or even a few decades. You just gotta keep chipping at it until the entire corrupt, diseased system comes crashing down on itself.

every day I find myself hoping for a big victory, and while this wasn't it, I feel like it's a good start and it gives me a bit of hope for the future.

 

totally get you and agree with you on it being a small victory, but it's a victory nonetheless.

Gotta get the ball rolling somehow I guess.