bonesiii

Masks do not get "smashed a little" and still work as if they were made of soft clay. They're brittle, and a slight crack is enough to make them stop working. That is a false rumor (one I had never heard before incidentally). Though, if it had been true, one of the masks getting damaged doesn't mean the other absolutely has to. We clearly saw the Avohkii slide out of harm's way in the movie portrayal, which was mostly confirmed canon (except that the door broke into pieces canonically). Whatever happened to the Kraahkan is thus irrelevant; we already know the Avohkii was safe, and we saw why.

Bionicle G1 also spoke of its present events as if they took place a long time ago. I wouldn't take that as implying anything other than a hypothetical far-future narrator, in both universes, as a stylistic thing. It also seemed to be used interchangeably with "mystical", if bad memory serves, so probably is just meant to make it have more of a fantasy feel, without any comment on time. Problems: -The Agori don't normally wear masks, yet all the villagers shown do. Who is telling this version of the myth? While it's possible there could be stories of a past culture that all wore masks (I won't worry about the clonism for this post as that could be artistic license anyways), since the concept of masks probably existed on SM, it fits far, far better with a reimagining. -Powered masks were treated as an invention of the Great Beings, as they didn't exist in the Core War, for example. This would change it to be borrowed from an old story. Possible, and they must have been inspired by something to connect mask with power, conceptually, but again I must wonder, is this the myth they would learn from Agori culture, or a later version? Because the powered masks seem to work just like the ones the Great Beings invented, and are taken for granted, just like a reimagining. -The Vahi design has been featured, but was invented by Vakama many millenia later, not the Great Beings. Did Vakama get magical visions about the shape of the imaginary Vahi in ancient Agori legends, lol? Or is this a REALLY late version of the myth in the far future of the combined cultures on reformed Spherus Magna? Confusing! Again, fits reimagining waaaay better. -The Mask of Creation is here. Similar to above, just a lot earlier and not as hard to explain. -Why would they name their Rahi creating scientists after a major villain of history (or at least seen as a villain by the time the myth is told)? True, we don't yet know the extent of his villainy in G2, but you'd think, so far, they'd be more likely to name the species after Ekimu. Even a best-case scenario for G2 Makuta so far is tragic incompetant. -Would the Order have to know this, to manipulate events on Mata Nui to imitate the Okoto myth, with details like the Golden Masks? Seems very unlikely. It doesn't, because it doesn't have to be in the G1 universe at all. Time can be important simply because the Vahi was important to Gen 1, and this is a reimagining, so it makes sense to incorporate the Vahi as a major plot element. That's all it needs to imply. Sorry, but of the theories so far that try to force G2 into the G1 universe, distant past seems about the least likely. Some far future thing is the best bet, methinks. But still fails IMO. And if you were going to have it be in the distant past, I think you'd need a theory more like the Vahi getting smashed and time traveling happening so Toa and whonot end up in the past, but getting sort of healed by the Temple of Time's construction or some such thing. But that wouldn't be likely either. The fact that it fits the pattern of a reimagining means that is the only really plausible theory. (And given everything else we've been told, virtual fact.)

If you think about it, that makes perfect sense. What do we know about the Great Beings? Besides their inventiveness and those basics -- it's that they love contingencies, and even planned for many that resemble thinking that their creations were fully sapient (I don't think that's the idea; I think they thought that glitching AI could possibly do some of the same things an evil being could, but the point is, they seemed to take every precaution they had time for, with possibly some oversights). Mata Nui is the controlling consciousness for the entire giant robot; they would surely want to protect him. In fact, trapping Tren Krom was all about that in the first place. So, there would be security safeguards, likely designed to be seemingly insurmountable. So Makuta probably assumed he couldn't take it over, until his first major defeat, and desperation that his original plans weren't going to work may have forced him to try to look for ways to get past it. You also have to consider that no matter how brilliant he was, he was still evil, which shows a one-track nature. He wasn't thinking about why going down that road of corruption was a bad idea. Once he had a goal, he would throw everything into accomplishing it. Well, his original goal was the accolades of the Matoran, not controlling a giant spaceship. He'd set his mind into all the details of how to go about that. In that context, then, when his now-insane friend started babbling about what the ancient monster had told him, Makuta's first and most natural way to incorporate the information would be to think about how it helps his current goal. You also have to keep in mind that until about that time, Mata Nui was still a conscious entity. Put yourself in Makuta's shoes here. He already has been tempted to think about overthrowing the Great Spirit, inspired by the example of the Barraki. He's thought about this for many, many hundreds of years. He would become quite stuck in that rut, logically. Then he finds out Mata Nui isn't living in secret in Metru Nui, or hiding in the southern isles, or one of the continents, or on some secret island in the northern areas -- he is all around Makuta. His first thought wouldn't be "it's a giant spaceship I can take over and explore... uh... big emptiness out there..." -- it would be "MY ENEMY IS EVERYWHERE -- LITERALLY!" It's quite possible that would have a restricting effect on his psychology until he did succeed in doing what perhaps he had imagined might be almost impossible, and cast that enemy into slumber. No longer would his mind be almost completely occupied with making sure every move he made was kept hidden from the enemy that could be watching everywhere. That would have a huge freeing effect on his thinking. It makes sense he would only put two and two together then. Now it could also make sense he thought of it before, and I had originally assumed that, but past topics brought this out that he only thought of it at the time of the protocage. Edit: Either of what? If you mean the one I was replying to, that Teridax didn't learn about the giant robot from Mutran, you apparently missed that I pointed out it isn't viable, since Teridax didn't gain any new intel in the protocage; he was forced to rethink how to use what he already knew, and his conclusion was takeover of the giant robot. He knew.

1) Keep in mind that with my original theory, only the emitted gravity would be greater before the Shattering. Since any over Earth's level (or thereabouts) would be absorbed, the gravity felt would be the same on SM, and the three fragments. This is the most consistent with all portrayals, and would seem to be the simplest theory. (But again, if you want a real-world-physics-only version, it probably doesn't work... just reacting to that "no matter the theory" bit. ) 2) I don't think the core is molten. It's generally thought there may be some molten layers near the surface, but the core basically has to be solid, for the most part, to hold up Bara Magna's olive-shaped surface for 100,000 years. Admittedly, a lot of molten rock might fit the moon reshaping part, so your theory works there, but that also already works with enough fracturing of both moons' rock. Large fragments in that would not be safe for inhabitants, due to the intensity of the resulting quakes, but small enough ones could flow roughly like a liquid, similar to molten rock, without the temperature issues of a solid and thin crust fracturing to bend around the molten section. Also, if it was already molten as it sounds like you're assuming, an explosion would more likely blast the molten rock out the sides and it would probably rain down on the top of the crust section, killing a lot more; if it was solid, the fracturing could happen as it accelerates up from the difference from gravity pull on the sides and upward push in the middle from the jet of venting, exploding EP (or whatever gradual explosive would replace it in a real-world version), so the fragments could go more down than up, until they settle around the mostly intact solid middle. Both are unlikely to be safe enough for survival without the option the actual story has of Mata Nui using a power to control things to be safer, but I think fracturing probably has the best chance. (And I don't think any of these are reversible without his power.)

That doesn't follow. Greg said that being imprisoned in the protocage forced Makuta to rethink his plans, and it dawned on him then to try to take over the giant. He didn't get any new information from Tren Krom or Mutran at that time, so he knew, he just hadn't yet imagined actually taking over, versus casting Mata Nui asleep and conquering in a more traditional way inside the Matoran Universe akin to his original plans before the TK intel.

My original gravity absorption (over Earth level) relied on transformation too. For the record, it being in the core could have made it not react with most of the planet, assuming a roughly stable wall around that central chamber so the rock above wouldn't collapse into that pocket and get destroyed or transformed. Even if it wasn't originally in the core, its normally reacting like an acid to rock would make it end up eating its way down to the core eventually.

What you have to remember is that it's completely plausible that alternate versions of a universe could exist in which a person by the same name, similar roles, and similar appearance to another universe exists, and the same goes for multiple characters and even basics like masks and the like, without actually being direct alternate "what if this choice had gone differently in G1 Pohatu's early life?" universes. This is a different kind of alternate reality. The normal type is like finding a parking lot with a specific set of cars, and changing out a car here and there. This is like looking at ALL parking lots, and picking out one that happens to have very similar cars in similar arrangements, but isn't actually related to the original parking lot. Why choose that one? Because we presuppose that the act of creating a reimagination is like a dimensional traveler picking a universe that looks much like home, or in this case... much like the dimension originally visited. We don't consciously think of it like this necessarily unless we've thought about those topics a lot, but intuitively we do get that, pretty much everybody. So no, it isn't illogical or wrong at all. (Also, Aanchir completely stole my thunder so yeah. )

Solis Magna could be completely normal, and probably is, given its color and that normal physics were confirmed for Bionicle stars.

It's been theorized the Order wrote more steps on the Scroll later.

jimmy, Greg can make mistakes, but that doesn't mean every decision will be a mistake; that's a Hasty Generalization fallacy. And I'm not sure if it was established that he did confuse Rode wit Olmak. It makes sense for Axonn's mask to be rare too. Munty, yes, Greg is in charge of Gen 1's canon. And yes, this poll was close, but again, Greg can decide canon without fan input at all; don't confuse such polls with a contest or election. The idea that there's some magical need for whole-fanbase representation or for a huge majority misses the point of asking for fan advice. Polls do get a closer idea of that than just canonizing a suggestion directly, though, so to complain about the polls not asking everybody under the sun is rather unfair... Plus, some things in a story like this are aimed even at minorities, so surely roughly 50/50 ones make sense occasionally. But even in a contest or an election, a slight win will still be a win. However, Greg could also decide that it's too close to call and leave it unestablished.

That's basically right. It's an energy consciousness that can travel from any pool to any other. The EP seems to be roughly comparable to a computer and the Entity to a piece of software, so it need not take up all the space in the computer, and could move from one computer to another. This makes sense with the name too; all of the protodermis has the potential to be alive, but until the entity moves into that space, it's "before-alive". It's sort of "hardware soup."

Not gonna parse your math, but please keep in mind that the canon size may not be based on the images we've seen at all, since Greg denied anything weird going on with gravity. That suggests it can't be more than a few times the mass of Earth to keep it within levels where animations as portrayed are close to right. (That might not be clear from my previous answer, so FTR. )

Although it's described as a legend, I don't think that's the right term in the literal sense here, at least not in the sense that the Turaga's tales of 2001 were. Those were shown with symbolic stones, but the Ekimu versus Makuta events were portrayed onscreen directly. Plus, Okoto itself was described as "mythical", so such terms are evidently either not meant to be taken seriously, or may suggest some sort of meta-reality that would apply to the whole G2 canon, not just the past legends.

To the last two sentences first, just describing things in those two different ways doesn't make that accurate. Some "I want this" things were canonized in the "good old days", and surely some thought is going into the new ones (not always the best thought though.. .Cordak...)... and more importantly, how do you know there's no substance behind them? Generally Greg will have reasons for accepting what he does... To the first questions, Greg's in charge, and it can vary depending on what's called for.

In addition, theories based on non-leaked content are the purpose of S&T in general, making this a post-it-here topic. As such, it will now be closed.

We already have a topic within the 60-day revival time on this subject: http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/16213-returning-elements/ Please continue there.

It's basically a lifeform that is extremely alien to humans, much more than the humanoid aliens that Agori/Glatorian are, or even the animal-shaped ones.

This isn't quite right, at least for Lewa. Tahu is called the Toa of Fire, and controls Fire. Lewa is called the Toa of Jungle. This is certainly evidence he controls jungle, though so far we haven't seen it clearly in action. (We saw glowy green energy, seemingly charging up, but what it'll do is unclear.) And there's slight evidence Pohatu controls sand. Evidence means a reason to think something might be true -- the fact that we see him somehow controlling sand is such a reason (with emphasis on might). The fact that that description says the boomarangs do it is evidence for the theory that only the boomarangs do it, but not proof. (Showing that one thing does something doesn't prove something else doesn't.) To Munty -- Honestly, I don't know where you're getting your reaction. You seem to be reading a different topic than I am. I haven't seen Xelphene doing the things you have accused him of doing. He has been very honest about the weaknesses in the theory, even to the point of agreeing it's very unlikely. Regit, I agree with your conclusion that it's not the same universe, obviously, but let's be clear on what is and isn't strong evidence of that. Lemme run through your list briefly: Evidence, but since 2009 was also a reboot, that word alone doesn't disprove this theory. More relevant is that Greg called it "not a continuation". But really, we just need the new story team to clear this one up, as room for slight doubt has been shown even on that. Agreed. (Although there is an alternate Terry... but you'd need a theory to get him to lose his memories instead or something, as this Makuta doesn't fit his morality.) First, the theory doesn't predict Skakdi on Okoto. Second, if you mean anywhere in the G2 universe, we don't know that. Even as a reimagining, Skakdi are possible eventually, if they feel like it. (Although I tend to doubt it... but who knows.) Third, even if no Skakdi were alive other than Goldiflocks, that could be due to extinction in a continuation. (But there's other really, really strong reasons to think Goldy isn't involved, or at least isn't Makuta, as explained in my first post.) All of this would fit Xel's theory, though. (Or various other continuation theories, as anything could change in the future.) Xel's theory does work a little with this if enough changes just right in the future, but it's one of the strongest points against it, as some of the personalities seem different enough that such a thing is very unlikely. (Plus, the similarities also work against it, as they seem way too blatantly mirroring 2001 to not be a reimagining.) I thought Xel's theory had them as Agori, who have children? Regardless, in a distant future, this could change too. Rahi simply meant animal, and the LoSS would seem to count. The Skull Spiders seem more like a cross between Rahi and infected masks / krana, so not sure I'd count them, though. But the story's just started; this is again a universal negative. This one is irrelevant. Whatever the villagers are, avoiding non-English is probably a marketing simplicity choice to appeal to more kids, including ones who would be daunted by the large amount of vocab to learn in G1. Now again, I agree the theory's in a coffin, but the headstone reads, "Extremely unlikely" rather than totally disproven. It's only mostly dead. And if they DID want to pull a twist of this sort on us, they wouldn't exactly be trumpeting evidence for it, would they?

Agreed. Topic closified.

Emphasis added -- this is not at all the case. Gen 1 Mata Nui was an unknown figure for most of it -- that he might have been a titan was an obvious possibility, yes, but we couldn't see that at a glance, could we? That he later became a normal sized humanoid doesn't change that he was intended to be a giant robot. And the size isn't the only issue; that size was part of his purpose -- to reform a planet. Ekimu seems very little like Mata Nui at a glance IMO, except that he fills the same role of inspiring Makuta's jealousy from his respect by the villagers. Since those things turned out to be central to Bionicle -- the giant for its metaphor in how Bionicle was inspired, and later for its in-story central role of the Reforming -- and since the secret is out for those things and wouldn't make sense to recycle (and might I add, at least one poll shows that at least among current online members, people overwhelmingly want a new plot driver rather than the giant robot), the answer to this seems obvious: Clearly this helps is differentiate between the two stories and assures us the Mata Nui character is not a giant robot. (It's not just the name, it's seeing him actually being a titan, and seeing his role too as a maskmaker.) It isn't inconsistent at all. A reimagining keeps some things, changes others. Simple. And for the above reasons, keeping Mata Nui would make virtually no sense. And Makuta's motivations are so far essentially the same; jealousy of Mata Nui and acting on it. It's his specific actions, in the context of maskmaking and elemental law that exist in G2 and not G1, that are different. But you've given no reason to think LEGO wouldn't "abandon" the name. It makes much more sense to me that LEGO wants the name Mata Nui to indicate Gen 1, because he was the center of Gen 1's plot, and Ekimu to refer to Gen 2. It's good organization at the very least. I don't have time to pick apart your specific suggestions. They're possible, but make Ekimu superfluous which seems like a bad idea. And all that just to get the name in? Yet you also said that in your view, Ekimu IS basically Mata Nui. And personality-wise, he does seem very close (though we haven't seen much of him). So why would we need another?

It was; he was featured in one of the early history flashback scenes somewhere, by that name. And there's no reason his sharing the sound of the fire prefix means he can't have had that name. It just means that the name's meaning cannot have included that he was a Ta-Matoran. Languages don't work exclusively like that. Look at Avohkii versus Avohkah; one is of the Light element, the other of the Lightning element. Or look at Onua versus Onewa, or Kongu versus Kopaka. He also kept the Ta start of his name when he became a Toa of Light, so if knowing you're of the light element is an inherent problem to having those two letters in your name, the fact that he was changing his name would have been the time to act on it.

It's possible, but keep in mind he'd already done something villainous by breaking the law he'd agreed to by making the mask in the first place. Lots of villain origin stories have the villain be drawn deeper into it after an initial less serious villainous act, beyond their ability or desire to fight it. And it doesn't seem likely he thought he had a chance of gaining the villagers' respect after breaking that law, so he was probably planning to use it for worse things anyways.

This topic is... somewhat borderline between belonging here and in Games and Trivia. It's been decided to throw it over there. Moving...

That's unclear. Is Gali swimming, for example, somewhat elemental? A current in water would greatly help her pull off the battle moves she did fighting the skull spiders there. Lewa swipes away some plants at one point, and the distance is unclear whether his sword literally did that (probably), or if it channeled elemental control to extend his reach. Is Onua's tunneling elemental at all? What about Pohatu's sandnado? Is that just a tool power, or is sand within Stone this time and that was elemental power?

What in the world else was there to take that category?? (Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm forgetting something obvious though lol.) Edit: Uh... I mean... AWESOME!