bonesiii

Sorry to again be unsure if we're talking in-story or real-world-ified version, but to the "they did it very inefficiently", production methods were probably easier at normal elevation and ground level. The giant clearly has gravity control, so moving pieces into place, and "gentle" takeoff are easy. And that would need to happen every time he reached an alien planet and then left it, so in-story it makes sense to build him as they did. For a real-world version, though... actually the biggest problem would be the presumed cloaking device while he lands, and ocean displacement, which we presume is handled elementally. Depending on how much we try to explain for real world, that stuff wouldn't work. Probably he would rely on tiny probes that land (presuming geologic measurement accuracy is the reason for needing to land), and he wouldn't land at all, so a space construction, and never landing, would make sense. If so, then the humanoid shape may become superfluous, and we'd be looking at a more classic spacecraft design. Of course, if we downscale him enough, and presume oceans big enough and aliens primitive enough (no radar, for example), maybe he could always land far away and use traditional rockets (refueling in space somehow, or something), and might not displace too much water. Actually, if we don't allow for artificial gravity, the whole concept of the domes basically fails. He might have to be turned into a giant centrifugal ring in a spaceship.

Please refrain from discussing leaked content. Thanks. Topic closed.

Are you asking for a history of Greg's role in Bionicle? I would think anybody that's followed him over the years would see this basic question as self-explanatory; he's extremely familiar with it, obviously has a great interest in it, wrote much of it, etc. The sets and stories have ended, but the worldbuilding side of it has not. This isn't a good analogy for that at all. We can. But we can also take it to Greg, and if he agrees that it's an improvement, it can become canon. You seem to be making way too much of what the canon is. It's one suggestion for how to see Bionicle; the version LEGO itself deems closest to their vision (which is oversimplistic, of course, but close to the basic idea; actually it's people in LEGO, this one being Greg -- but people who are very familiar with that vision). Events in real life are "unbreakable" too (barring time travel and alternate universes ), but fiction can and does change it; thus fan fiction is free to have alternatives, both in canon gaps and to canon details. 1) That the sets and continuing plot ended does not logically support that Greg is not in charge of the canon. That's a non sequitur. It would work if this was an exclusivist plot-reveals-only type of story, but it isn't; it's a worldbuilding story. Many details were established and revealed before their usage in-story, some never were, and others were revealed later. (Doesn't mean anything and everything is a good addition, though!) 2) Normal canon is produced by only LEGO employees or only one person -- your own argument in fact treats this as higher than fan input anyways, so saying that minorities getting what they want is absolutely, always "unfair" is contradictory. There's more to it than just majority wins logic; there's also logical quality/consistency, treats for minorities sometimes... etc. But that you're bringing it up in this topic makes me wonder why -- I don't support determining the Mangai weapons, remember (although to be fair I'm not entirely opposed to it either ), and generally majorities are listened to. This isn't about "fairness", really -- as if LEGO has an obligation to make everything as popular as possible. It's more about likelihood of being popular. 3) Covered before; no, Greg doesn't just canonize anything at all. He wrote a blog entry on here about this once that you may want to read; I think that's still available. 4) Also covered extensively in past discussion. Yes, they can ignore it, and this always goes all ways for everybody; those who want the canon to keep a gap are asking those who want it to be filled in to ignore the gap. This is an important part of healthy, polite interaction with somebody else's creation in entertainment, because of varying personal tastes; when something doesn't appeal to your tastes, you don't demand it be removed from everybody else who does like it or that it can't be a canon and has to be fan stuff only -- if that was taken to its logical conclusion, there could never be any canon at all. Canon is basically the same as one fan's interpretation; just treat it that way and taste-based problems like that evaporate. In a single-author work, the author is a fan of the original vision he or she had, and writes details for those curious to see as much of the world as makes sense and can be fun for some. In a work like Bionicle, Greg is almost literally a fan; a fan of the idea established by Christian Faber, Bob Thompson, etc. and is giving us his version. The authors make sense to choose for a canon because they are best familiar with that vision. But it doesn't mean their version is opposed to fan versions being different. Greg, in fact, encourages fans to imagine things differently. That's not, again, that logical problems should be ignored (your wording is ambiguous on this). And keep in mind that often people will wrongly confuse their own tastes for logical problems; it's important to carefully avoid that. BTW, getting very emotionally worked up about disagreements is usually a very bad way to avoid it... I would strongly advise calming down and trying to be fair about this, keeping in mind that while you may strongly want your POV to be accepted, it's quite possible that's in part because of subjective preferences you have, and you may be unwittingly insulting others' different preferences.

saying (or said?) I probably won't have much time to keep up with reviewing here in coming weeks. Apologies in advance. I did read the latest chapter, though I had to skim in places near the end. I liked the way you revealed the illusions character. Confused on how to pronounce the name, not sure I like this name, to be honest. The character is interesting though. He'd seemed like a candidate for the main, or an important, antagonist, but how he quickly convinced them he was on their side and now seems to be sort of an authority figure among them was written well -- and it would be easy to do it wrong so it wouldn't be believable. Given some of what he said, and Vyroko's find about his mask at the end, it seems suggested that something is controlling access to things based on what powers people have (and/or personality), and this something seems to WANT them to succeed. It seems Vyroko was chosen to enter that hole because his mask could enable him to survive the fall, and others might die or be seriously injured. And the egg's connection to the Toa of Light seems to be about amplifying his light power, and not any other power. The latter of which seems to also suggest the egg is in charge of other illusions around the island, possibly the whole island. Perhaps the egg is the something choosing access to things for benevolent reasons?

Munty, everybody already knows we're talking about fan input canonizations. The issue is you're claiming things about the subject that don't hold up. Which is why I focused on those things. No, Greg doesn't just canonize anything; he canonizes what makes sense to him and what he thinks improves the world of G1 canon. And Bionicle's canon has always been somewhat collaborative. Greg didn't even invent it, but he is in charge of deciding what's canon now.

I'm not worrying about what it's made of. I would go with fairly normal rock for a real-world-ified version, personally, but since such a version is probably changing things from the canon anyways, you could imagine it differently. But canonically, there's no evidence for anything but solid, normal rock with the EP core.

The movies are basically more canon for the little details, the sets more canon for the big basics. Rahaga helicopter blades being less canon is a major one. That one gives us the basic principle that if the movie form looks essentially like the set and would seem to work about the same way, the movie version's can be taken as canon, in essence, but any major contradiction between the two, go with the set (and imagine a more movie-styled version of the set; like imagine Rhotuka launchers like the Toa Hordika's there, and riding on controlled Rhotuka under their feet rather than helicopter blades on the back). But the little details like quality of the face of course remain like the movie. However, there's some "movie universe, comic universe" type explanations used in a few cases, and fans are free to imagine it being so for others. Basically, there's usually no need to worry about it. It's all protodermis. The reason for the reference to mining "protodermis" is that some very important or basic types, namely liquid protodermis (protowater), purified liquid protodermis, and energized protodermis are often referred to just as protodermis for short. EP was referred to that way in the Nuva-ization comic. It is unclear which type they mined, but EP is unlikely because blobs of the mined type could be held safely (according to MNOG2). The name would make the most sense with purified protodermis, which might have power-generation capabilities for their machinery, but the "stuff of life" designation could make sense with protowater, since the normal water on Mata Nui was real water, which they can drink but possibly isn't as long-term nutritious for protodermic beings as protowater. As for the disguise feature, depending on how advanced the visitors are, they won't likely be doing molecular analyses, yanno? To the eyes, protodermis imitates normal matter closely. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for EP to result in a non-protodermic island, although it might be possible. And any visitors that do come would generally be attacked by the Bohrok, trying to capture them to add them to the swarm and prevent them from leaving the island to tell about it to others on their planet, so more advanced ones' knowledge that it isn't normal matter would be kept from the populace at large too (presuming they're not so advanced or powerful that they defeat the Bohrok). Also, it's best to refer to the island as a camouflage system, since "cloaking device" implies an invisibility power, and the giant robot almost certainly has one of those too for when it's landing and taking off. So doesn't make sense to call both things by the same term.

Re: summoning Toa with the Vahi -- the most likely theory, it seems to me, at least if we take one assumption as a given, that there's a callback in this bit of the story, is that the Toa, who are described as "timeless" were in some kind of stasis, awaiting being summoned. The use of the Mask of Time could simply release their being frozen in time, and they launch to the island somehow in response. No need for time travel; this would fit the Gen 1 pattern of events because the Toa were in a sort of stasis before Mata Nui feel asleep. It's not much of a stretch to change the canister vehicles' stasis fields into some effect of time slowing for Gen 2. Somebody could have set all this up in ages past, so that some mechanism or magic something-or-another 'knows' that the moment the Toa are released from stasis, they are to launch to Okoto from those planet/moon/star thingamabobs. That would explain their being "summoned" and yet fit nicely with the known powers of the Vahi (which doesn't include literal summoning abilities!). The only real stretch is the apparent huge distance, but G1 Vahi was a Legendary mask; it's possible it could operate across that distance (Ignika at least could teleport Toa Mahri from Mahri Nui to Metru Nui, a pretty big range). And maybe, presuming there's no Legendary system in G2, the Mask of Time being in the Temple of Time amplifies or channels its power somehow... or maybe long ago it could cast a time-freezing 'spell' on them, with no range needed continuously, and the range only is needed for the breaking of the spell (the "summoning").

No. And it already has ties in the sense of nods to the similar things from the original, like any reimagining; I don't see the need for them to be connected in-story. I wouldn't be absolutely opposed, as long as it's still a different universe, though, depending on how it's done. But same universe? No.

Not under the scenario I described. Most of it would be one chunk, and the circular edge around it would fall slightly, then settle around the main chunk. I'm assuming the resulting body has gravity almost at Earth level (as a real-world closest match, and making Bara smaller than in canon so SM's gravity isn't Jupiter or anything ), so they would fall together basically instantly. And whether it's molten, flowing like a liquid as small particles, or larger particles doesn't change this; the middle option is just the most surviveable, due to solving the heat problem and mostly the quake problem.

Emphasis mine -- canon is added when Greg (or somebody else on the old story team etc.) accepts it in. It isn't only. And the fact that fan input is allowed on some things doesn't change that Greg decides canon, so I don't see how this amounts to the statements or wordings you've been saying. (As far as whether he'll canonize weapons, I don't know / recall, though. If it hasn't been stated in this topic, you probably know as much as the rest of us. )

That wasn't the premise. I nulled as well because I don't have a preference myself, but as the poll shows, quite a few people do. Then why no middle/unsure option?

I'd suggest re-reading the scene, because I'm pretty sure that's what it described. I could be misremembering and assuming the obvious -- which would be that he was way too powerful for that to be a risk -- though. Also, I was thinking more of the earlier scene of Teridax's antidermis traveling down into the Core before the takeover, not the Hagah/etc. later. But I forget the wording, exactly.

I don't have much to say this time. Just wanna see the next chapter! POST IT POST IT POST IT lol. *ahem* Eh, I'm not really buying anything right now, except that the face-value of things is the face-value of things. I'm not sure, though, if I sensed that it's a bait and switch on my own, or because you said it in the review topic. Since you said it, I don't know what my natural reaction would have been. One reason why I try to avoid reveals like that in out-story comments as much as possible. I do know I thought a lot of illusory type things were going on; that's pretty clear, so that the whole thing is somehow tricking the reader doesn't seem like that big a leap.

Sure, but it doesn't do you any good if you get killed by them. (Of course, the Vahki idea fixes that. ) And again, Greg said he thought of the idea while in the protocage, not just before it. He wasn't exploring or sending out Vahki at the time; he didn't get new intel then. Your theory is close to having the right timing, but IMO not close enough. I don't recall the teleportation (although my retelling is after this point chronologically now, it's in the Bara Magna plot and this part will be checked for a catch-up chapter coming up for MU events since the takeover), but taking that as a given for now, it actually seems to disprove the idea that Teridax only later figured out where it was, because Zaktan led them there, from intel he got from plans Teridax made that Zaktan saw. Teridax thus had to know where it was already, if I'm understanding you right. (That Miserix would extrapolate the the endpoint from Zaktan's statements or thoughts? I do recall this part of the story being very confusing, though.) (Also, wasn't that after Teridax had already defeated the security? Or at least snuck past it in gaseous form, which he wouldn't want to do before he had a clear plan, most likely? He could have disabled it, because I think that story said that he wanted them to come.) Probably about like I described for Teridax (though I wouldn't be thinking about conquering anything anyways, so I'm a bad analogy ). Most likely people would see the nature of this entity as inherent to it, not something that it's easy to imagine you can take over. I think Teridax saw it as a crazy complication in his desire to take Mata Nui down, and probably wouldn't think much about it beyond that. I do think the idea COULD have occurred to him, and as I said, I originally assumed it did, but after thinking it over more carefully, I've realized that taking it as obvious is probably only because the story happened to go there, so we're used to the idea in hindsight. Teridax wouldn't have that benefit. It would be one possibility buried in gobs of details about the machinery of what Mutran told him about, probably an obscure detail it would take a lot of analysis to bring out as useful in such a way. As to Mutran's state, I take it as a period of time of listening to him and writing down observations and piecing it together, not something he instantly learned, but 1) it wouldn't take more than a year or so, certainly not long enough to put it at the time of the protocage, and 2) Mutran's insanity is often exaggerated. He was actually almost completely coherent, as seen both in his 2008 portrayal and his writing of the Mutran Chronicles. He was nothing like Vezon, for example. Also, I'm not talking about a total leap of trust, if you will (a trust fall lol?) -- the many less dangerous details Mutran described being found to work just as he said would make the fear that he was wrong about the Core very unlikely.

I keep seeing you saying things like this. You can headcanon whatever you like, but Greg and LEGO decide what is canon.

I nulled as I don't really buy the premise that one has to be better than the other. Keep in mind the Nuva were not given tools/abilities that were good matches to the Piraka, and the Inika were. It wasn't really about experience there. No doubt their experiences as Matoran helped, especially for Jaller and Kongu, but the Nuva were in a similar position, having been trained by the best, and having retained that training basically as "muscle memory." Had the Nuva had good tools for the job, they probably would have fared similarly to the Inika. Plus, the Inika were picked for their personalities, presumably, also being good fits for that task (hence it being their destiny and not the Nuva's), which doesn't imply they're better in general for any old task.

Those were the main things we knew about Mata Nui originally, though. That he had so much more power (due to being the giant) wasn't learned until eight years later. We accepted him as possibly a titan like Ekimu for all that time. I think this fits best with the idea that LEGO has decided to make a version of Bionicle based on the popular (but at the time incorrect) theory fans had since 2001 about Mata Nui (and other things like the island just being the home of villagers, etc.). Bringing in a character named Mata Nui just to have somebody be as powerful as a character from G1 seems arbitrary, and also would seem to send mixed messages since avoiding being overpowered was the whole point of the law against multiple elements in masks, remember?

Most likely the animators are simply presuming, based on the Toa, that a set version of Ekimu would/will have such a gear.

I think so. It's definitely canon that they based the Matoran on Agori, but if the myth was about Agori and Glatorian with masks of elemental power rather than innate Toa powers, this would actually fit (that part). One problem (at least I think it is; I see the topic starter has replied but I'm replying as I read) is that the characters are called Toa, and when Mata Nui referred to Toa, Ackar had to ask him what that was. So, this can't be a well-known tale among all Glatorian, at least, and at least not as we're being told it. Just keep in mind we were told their names are inspired after the words for those elements (or prefixes anyways). This would have to push that way back into history, and seriously stretches credulity there (in addition to the other serious stretches and apparent contradictions). And I don't know if we were told if the Great Beings were the ones that picked the names or Artakha or the Order. See, I keep seeing questions like this with these connection theories. To me, they imply that these aren't natural theories coming out of the evidence, but a desire to see a link and looking for evidence to prop up the idea. You're not saying "the evidence clearly implies it's both", you're asking why it can't be both, meaning you want it to be. We don't have absolutely definitive proof it isn't, but if the new story team doesn't want it to be, then it can't be both. Pretty simple. Obviously you can headcanon away all the problems if you want -- you could make it into anything you want then, but as far as canon goes, no. They didn't make them for the Core War, as I pointed out. If somebody had thought of them at the time, maybe they would have, instead of the elementally charged weapons they gave the Glatorian instead. So I do think nobody had likely heard of powered masks until the Great Beings thought of it after the discovery of protodermis. The idea seems to have come from the idea to have a "coma switch" for their main AI units (like a kill switch but not directly fatal), in case a Matoran glitched, and used masks for that. Now with the idea of masks as important established, making them have power for Toa and some other beings would be a logical connection to make at that time. Then they could get started with making the Ignika, etc. Notice the Baterra didn't have masks of power either. The things the GBs made before that point didn't, and after that point, did or had something similar like Krana. I doubt that's a coincidence. Agreed. The thing is, the story needs a main antagonist, and Makuta has clearly been set up for that role, as we would expect for a reimagining, and you have agreed it's clear they intend it as one. I think it would likely be too much to accept turning Makuta into something like Brutaka. I wasn't just talking about the golden masks (hence the "etc.") -- it's the whole pattern; heroes fall from the sky, are told by village leaders to collect masks, fighting creatures infesting the island likely connected somehow to Makuta's will, collect the Golden Masks, and then go on to try to defeat the creatures. The GBs didn't know Matoran would ever be on the camouflage island, so I don't think we can invoke them here; hence my mention of the Order. You said you don't think the GBs told anyone in the MU, right? I think this almost completely defeats the theory, sorry, unless you're okay with one massive coincidence. Well that could start a complicated debate; suffice to say, theories are to have evidence and Ockham's Razor is important for sorting out speculation from theories. Doesn't mean a speculative idea couldn't be what they do; that would even be a better way to have a twist, right? But theories are supposed to go from evidence here, regardless of what they actually will end up doing. Otherwise all we could really say is one big "maybe". As for going simple, I agree, and that's why it simply being a reimagining is much more likely. My point in that part was that that was what I imagined when I saw your title, and seems to fit the evidence better, and would make all the contradictions mentioned above irrelevant. It would be more complicated in some ways yes, but probably also more fun. But as we can already imagine it now, I think it's probably unlikely just because it wouldn't be surprising. But yours doesn't really seem interesting on its own for a connection. If it was done, I doubt we'd go "oh that's really fun" -- it would be more like "okay... so that was all just a myth... all just to force a connection between the two universe? Sad face!"

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Whether a liquid, a collection of small fragments that flow roughly like a liquid, or large fragments, the large gravity of the whole, being blasted in roughly the same direction away from Bara Magna, is what brings it all back together into a sphere. If that gravity isn't enough, the whole thing comes apart into many pieces, under all three options. (And the atmosphere would go away anyways, etc. -- clearly the gravity has to be enough. ) I don't know what the point of your hammer analogy is, since pieces that fly out from a hammer impact aren't pulled together by their own gravity. If you're just saying that there can be multiple pieces, so the fracturing theory is possible, I agree, though a hammer strike is a bad analogy to my view of a more gradual explosion, with sustained force over time being what pushes the two poles into orbit rather than one sudden hit.

I suppose, but this seems less likely than before, when he was the Makuta assigned to Metru Nui. As Dume, he probably had to spend a lot of time playing the role, if not all of it. As himself, since he didn't spend much time there anyways, being sighted there before and after starting explorations wouldn't be that odd, and not being seen for a while in between those sightings wouldn't be odd either (or he could come in some random disguise or teleport into tunnels to not be seen at all). But I don't think it's very plausible that he figured out the Core Processor from explorations, ever, because there were likely security systems to prevent access to that area. Too risky, really. Anyways, what we were told is that Tren Krom gave them basically complete knowledge of the universe around them. The basic idea is so simple there's really no reason he would fail to get it across. Complex details like how to raise those crystalline pillars in the Silver Sea would take MORE time to get across. So I don't see any room canonically for him not to know, and there's no reason for him not to, given his personality of obsession and his original goal being about Matoran, not endless ambition as a conquerer in general. But the time period in question is very short, and there was so much to explore. Unless you think he got super lucky early on (both in finding the core or some clear hint to the core, and in not getting blasted to smithereens by security systems), he'd basically have no time to pretend to be Dume. By contrast, before he started that role he had millenia after millenia of time, so why wait until playing Dume? The fact that Dume is in the Coliseum seems irrelevant, since before taking his place, Makuta could go there too. You could get around this maybe, though, by having Dumakuta assign many Vahki to explore remotely for him. But again, you're creating an unneccesary gap in his knowledge that seems clearly contradicted by what we were told, and then having a theory to patch the gap. It makes more sense to not make the gap in the first place, and look at his personality to understand why the knowledge already being there isn't a problem.

Yes. Past topics went through the question and brought out Greg's answer that he did indeed die canonically, as I said.

The book is the one that has the rubble, which is canon. The movie doesn't show that. But the book also has Takanuva not actually dying, which is non-canon. As for not explaining how, that's common in Bionicle, and has been discussed in many past topics, I don't feel like dredging up the old theories again. Except to say that the most plausible one is included in my retelling. But no, it wasn't about reciting anything, as far as we know. He was speaking for the sake of those around him hearing him, methinks.

Not literally one-track, but having a tendency to have narrow vision, even though within that vision he could be thorough. Point is, he decided to leave the path of good because he was jealous of Mata Nui getting those accolades instead of him; it obviously had an overpowering effect on his mind. If he could easily move on to other goals like space conquering missions, he likely would have moved on to other goals that didn't require such a risky betrayal in the first place. He's obsessive, so it makes sense he wouldn't really adapt it too much until a huge defeat like that. Even when he did take over, he spent a lot of time stifling uprisings and threats inside the MU before leaving Aqua Magna, and the story gave no clear indication he had even formed a game plan for what to do from there. I think he was probably expanding his vision, to seek accolades somehow from other worlds, but he may also have felt he'd be content with achieving his original goal, at least for a while. And there wasn't time between the GC and his being protocaged for him to explore anything beyond what he would already know. Plus, at that time he was having the mental struggle with Nidhiki and Krekka who he had absorbed. He wouldn't likely be making any brilliant innovations in that short time; only after that settled down while sitting there in the protocage.