HF Socket Joints: How have your experiences been?

[Removed297]

In 2011, with the introduction of Hero Factory 2.0, LEGO designers again overhauled the socket connector for their ball and socket joints, due to the many instability issues in previous versions.

 

The new socket joints introduced were much thicker, and required less force to separate; the plastic needed to bend less, reducing the risk of fractures.

 

Now that we have had 3 years of building, MOCing, and messing around with these new sockets, what have your experiences been?

 

Have you ever broken any?

 

For those of you who have been with Hero Factory and BIONICLE for a long while, how do you think they stack up to previous socket designs?

 

Do you wish for LEGO to overhaul or modify the standard socket design again in the future?

 

 

So far, my experiences have been completely positive, without a single stress point or crack as of yet. The overall design feels sturdier, and separating a connected ball and socket is no longer nerve-wracking. However, it would be nice to see further sturdying of the technic pin slot at the very bottom, which can occassionally crack when used many times or with a slightly oversized technic rod, and it may benefit from a slightly increased plastic thickness. I have not experienced a breakage as of yet, but many older technic pieces of mine with similar connection points have broken.

Edited January 3, 2014 by The Kumquat Alchemist

[Mesonak]

I'll be honest... Quite a lot of my sockets have become cracked (mainly the limbs, not the armor). I believe this has something to do with the way I stored them for several months rather than part quality; it's possible my manner of storage was very detrimental to them. Regardless of that, they are leaps and bounders better than BIONICLE sockets of old.

 

-Mesonak

[fishers64]

My experiences with the new sockets have been excellent; easy to put together, easy to take apart, and the resulting joint poses well with a minimum of sag.

 

By comparison, older ball joints, while I haven't broken any, are very tight and harder to manipulate in general.

[Bfahome]

I love the new sockets. I don't have to worry about them snapping if I look at them the wrong way, and they're also easier to snap together and pull apart without sacrificing their grip.

[Removed297]

I'll be honest... Quite a lot of my sockets have become cracked (mainly the limbs, not the armor). I believe this has something to do with the way I stored them for several months rather than part quality; it's possible my manner of storage was very detrimental to them. Regardless of that, they are leaps and bounders better than BIONICLE sockets of old.

 

-Mesonak

 

May I ask how you stored them, and why you suspect the storage method caused issues? I'd like to avoid similar problems should I ever store my parts away for long periods. Did the cracked or cracking joints have a noticeably tighter grip, or was it random which ones broke?

 

Even if any of mine only get small cracks, I'd never be able to look at a cracked piece the same way again.

 

"Oh, you have a little crack, socket joint? Well, even if you still have some life left in you, you'll just go in a little pile and never be used again" is how I treat any sockets of mine with even the smallest of cracks.

Edited January 3, 2014 by The Kumquat Alchemist

[Aanchir]

I have had all-around good experience with all of the new-style sockets. I tend to avoid using any old-style sockets in my models anymore because the look, the tactile experience of attaching and flexing them, and the structural integrity are not as good. I know that even the 2008-2010 sockets can be used without breaking if you're very careful with them — but why would I use them now, when that necessary amount of care adds unnecessary time and anxiety to the building process?

 

Like any sockets, they are slightly limited in the amount of weight they can support. And you can't always add multiple ball cups to a given joint to increase its friction. But that's where the ever-useful friction joint comes in. It tends to have much stronger friction than its predecessor from the 2004-2007 titan/warrior sets.

 

It's possible, of course, that these are like the standard 1999-2006 ball cups and have lost a great deal of friction over time. With some effort, I can make a Hero Factory figure balance on one foot, but my oldest BIONICLE figures like Toa Mata Kopaka go limp when I attempt to do so. I hesitate to call this a definitive advantage in the new ball cups' favor, though, since it's possible they simply have not been around long enough to experience this same degree of loosening.

 

The ball snap (the connection style used to attach shells to beams) is also remarkably sturdy, whether used on a guided section like the center of a beam or on a standard ball at the end of a beam. It does not seem to have as much friction as a ball cup, but none of mine have broken or become loose over time.

 

When you put a new ball cup or ball snap on a ball, the sound and feel is a smooth and gentle click. I feel like even when they aren't breaking, the older ball cups (even the ones from the Ben 10 sets, which are about as sturdy as the new ones) make an unpleasant cracking sound that makes me as a builder uncomfortable. I have not witnessed so much as a hairline fracture in the new parts, but I also don't feel like I need to check them for fractures every time I put a ball and ball cup together. Aesthetically, the smooth shape and finish are also much nicer than the sharp corners of older joint styles. It all adds up to a much more pleasant building experience.

 

The only thing I can soundly criticize about the new ball cups? They do not exist in nearly enough variety of colors! A typical Hero Factory model rarely needs them in any colors but Dark Stone Grey or Black, but sometimes other colors are desirable. I would have loved to use them for the eye sockets on Delwyn Buckler, but they are not available in White. And the number of sets that include them in Bright Red, another color I use frequently in MOCs, is pitiful.

[xccj]

They're okay. The connections do feel a bit tighter, and I've swapped them into a couple of models to add stability. But while they're the same functionality, I am disappointed that they haven't appeared in the wide variety of colors that the original types did. (And the grilles on the originals gave them a more technic-y feel to them, IMO.)

 

Most of my older socket pieces from 2006 and earlier stood up very well, and really only weakened with exessive use, whereas 2007 seemed to bring a lot of weaknesses with em, and they've only recently fixed that up.

 

[Makaru]

They are tighter and more durable. Couldn't ask for more. A definite improvement over their predecessors.

[fishers64]

The only thing I can soundly criticize about the new ball cups? They do not exist in nearly enough variety of colors! A typical Hero Factory model rarely needs them in any colors but Dark Stone Grey or Black, but sometimes other colors are desirable. I would have loved to use them for the eye sockets on Delwyn Buckler, but they are not available in White. And the number of sets that include them in Bright Red, another color I use frequently in MOCs, is pitiful.

It seems to me that the standard place for color on HF sets, and just with this building system in general, is on the armor attached to the limb pieces (socket joints). This doesn't strike me as a disadvantage necessarily; it's just how the building system is. I'm not sure why releasing those parts in more colors would automatically benefit the theme, as the black in question is usually hidden and doesn't detract from the set's overall color scheme. (IMO most colors look good with black.)

 

Bionicle, by contrast, had parts made of socket joints as a direct part of the sets' color scheme and aesthetics. Personally I like the separation between color and structure in these new sets, as it allows me to work on the structure of a MoC and then add color later. I'll admit that it makes for a disadvantage when MoCing, which isn't any good, but the problem is that they don't have any motivation when making the sets to make the limbs in white or purple much. There's too many ways they could clash with the shells, so they make it mostly black.

 

I don't think this is going to change anytime soon.

[Mesonak]

 

I'll be honest... Quite a lot of my sockets have become cracked (mainly the limbs, not the armor). I believe this has something to do with the way I stored them for several months rather than part quality; it's possible my manner of storage was very detrimental to them. Regardless of that, they are leaps and bounders better than BIONICLE sockets of old.

 

-Mesonak

 

May I ask how you stored them, and why you suspect the storage method caused issues? I'd like to avoid similar problems should I ever store my parts away for long periods. Did the cracked or cracking joints have a noticeably tighter grip, or was it random which ones broke?

 

Even if any of mine only get small cracks, I'd never be able to look at a cracked piece the same way again.

 

"Oh, you have a little crack, socket joint? Well, even if you still have some life left in you, you'll just go in a little pile and never be used again" is how I treat any sockets of mine with even the smallest of cracks.

 

 

I guess I really shouldn't say how I "stored my pieces" caused it because it's not really that. I live in an apartment complex and store my pieces inside of a closet in plastic, pull-out drawers. For several months, however, I also stored some completed sets of mine inside the closet as well, but they weren't inside boxes, they were just sitting there.

 

When I moved to take the sets out of the closet a few months ago I noticed that the majority of their limbs had either loosened substantially or developed large cracks. So I'd wager it's more of a problem with the apartment (perhaps paint from the walls giving off fumes, or something inside the closet) that caused my pieces to weaken, because other than those assembled sets, my HF joints have had little-to-no issues.

 

-Mesonak

Edited January 4, 2014 by Mesonak

[Aanchir]

 

The only thing I can soundly criticize about the new ball cups? They do not exist in nearly enough variety of colors! A typical Hero Factory model rarely needs them in any colors but Dark Stone Grey or Black, but sometimes other colors are desirable. I would have loved to use them for the eye sockets on Delwyn Buckler, but they are not available in White. And the number of sets that include them in Bright Red, another color I use frequently in MOCs, is pitiful.

It seems to me that the standard place for color on HF sets, and just with this building system in general, is on the armor attached to the limb pieces (socket joints). This doesn't strike me as a disadvantage necessarily; it's just how the building system is. I'm not sure why releasing those parts in more colors would automatically benefit the theme, as the black in question is usually hidden and doesn't detract from the set's overall color scheme. (IMO most colors look good with black.)

 

Bionicle, by contrast, had parts made of socket joints as a direct part of the sets' color scheme and aesthetics. Personally I like the separation between color and structure in these new sets, as it allows me to work on the structure of a MoC and then add color later. I'll admit that it makes for a disadvantage when MoCing, which isn't any good, but the problem is that they don't have any motivation when making the sets to make the limbs in white or purple much. There's too many ways they could clash with the shells, so they make it mostly black.

 

I don't think this is going to change anytime soon.

 

Well, I don't mean to suggest it's a huge big deal or something that urgently needs to change. I typically make do with black Y-joints and usually my MOCs are the better for it. But that's just the one major disadvantage that new Y-joints have compared to the old ones.

 

Personally, I do occasionally enjoy using brighter colors (Bright Red especially, since there are so many beams in that colors) for the skeletons of my MOCs. An all-black or black and grey skeleton can be great for some things, but if a MOC's primary color is a neutral color like white, black, silver, or grey, the skeleton is a great place to throw some contrasting colors as accents.

 

I agree, it's probably not going to change anytime soon. But it'd at least be nice to eventually get Y-joints in the two main neutral colors they're currently not available in: Medium Stone Grey and White.

[Sumiki]

Never had a single snap with them.

[Waaja]

One problem with them I've had, which from another angle can be considered a good thing, is that they come off too easily.

 

(posing Breakout Rocka's bow hand) *pop* gahhhh it came off again D:

 

Besides that, I don't think I've to worry about them breaking as much as old Bionicle ones, even though a long time of not using them may cause them to be more stiff, like that of older sockets.

[bioniclepluslotr]

Honestly, I've only broken two joint sockets with Bionicle (anyone know where I can get replacements ) However, I actually do prefer the old versions, since with the new ones, every armor piece looks pretty much the same. You know with Bionicle, how they had pieces that fit over the shoulders and legs? The new versions all look pretty much the same. The past four Hero Factory/Chima sets all use the same pieces for armor I missed out on a lot of the old Hero Factory sets that looked much cooler than Brain Attack.

[Master Inika]

My post-2010 HF socket work a lot smoother than BIONICLE's did. I'm still paranoid about detaching them, but I did to it to Nex's hand once with no issue. I remove the armor pieces regularly. Those are a different kind of socket, it seems, so I don't worry about them. The last joint that snapped was one of Stringer 1.0's arms.

[JacobLazer]

I love them, they're WAY stronger. On the downside however, the circular hole is smaller, so I can't fit x-rods through anymore.

[Sybre]

What an improvement! None of mine have cracked yet, but there's a loose forearm on at least one of my models. But I still think that the joints are better than BIONICLE's.

[Manterax Prime]

The only set where I've had sockets crack is on Furno 2.0. Other than that, nothing.

[sinewav]

IMO The new Ball & Socket Joints that began with HF 2.0 are perhaps the best and sole improvement from the Bionicle era.

 

They are leaps and bounds more resilient than before especially for children. As an example my son would quite frequently fracture a bionicle socket on perhaps > %50 of Bionicle era parts has yet to cause a single fracture on the new design (knock on wood). This has led to much less frustration in our household and this alone warrants praise for the new HF line.

 

On the downside I would say for me are the lack of axle & pin connectors of which the new parts have largely dumped in favor of even more ball connectors used for armor pieces and such. For ease of use I totally understand but would've appreciated some parts that use the new ball & socket but still allow axle & pin. I would also add lack of colors as another downside which other have raised.

 

Overall IMO the new ball & socket are hands down an improvement with minor qualms.

[bioniclepluslotr]

I feel that every single set I've bought so far is pretty much the same build, since all the socket pieces are all the same colors for the most part. They've got the black and gray, whereas the old ones have a variety of color to match the figure. Plus all the torso pieces are pretty much identical too.

[Aanchir]

I feel that every single set I've bought so far is pretty much the same build, since all the socket pieces are all the same colors for the most part. They've got the black and gray, whereas the old ones have a variety of color to match the figure. Plus all the torso pieces are pretty much identical too.

It's kind of funny you say that. Most of the comments I see from Hero Factory fans about beam colors are in favor of using only black and/or Dark Stone Grey, and having fewer bright, contrasting colors. A lot of people like to keep the skeletons of their models in a single, neutral color and want complete freedom with what beams are available in that color, rather than more variety of colored beams.

 

But overall I agree that I'd love to see ball cups and beams in more colors, since I love using contrasting colors in my MOCs. We have plenty of useful beams in Bright Red, Black, Dark Stone Grey, and Medium Stone Grey, but few in White, Bright Yellow, or Bright Yellowish Green, and none whatsoever in colors like Bright Blue or Medium Lilac. And it'd be nice to see that change. I'd especially like to get a few Bright Blue beams in useful sizes, or a few more Bright Yellow and Bright Yellowish Green ones, since that would allow for a nice range of vibrant colors to use for parts of a model's skeleton.

 

Regarding every single set you've bought being the same build, though, that can be avoided if you're a bit more selective about which sets you buy. Savage Planet's villain sets included some nice non-humanoids like Fangz and Raw-Jaw, plus the amazingly innovative Witch Doctor. The small ($8.99) villain sets from the Breakout series were especially diverse, with sets like Jawblade, XT4, Toxic Reapa, and Thornraxx. Brain Attack mostly stuck with humanoid heroes and villains, but did offer the magnificent Dragon Bolt.

 

This year's new Machine sets finally give the hero sets a chance at that same sort of variety. Furno Jet Machine and Evo XL Machine are definitely the most creative designs in the first wave, but the summer is bringing lots of non-humanoid battle machines like Surge Combat Machine, Breez Flea Machine, and Bulk Drill Machine. I'm very much looking forward to getting good pictures of these sets from Toy Fair so I can see just how they're built and what kinds of creative building techniques they might have to offer.

[NickonAquaMagna]

Well, many of the ones I have HAVE worn out after being used many times, but at least the figures can stand up. Their strong point seems to be the simple fact that they never, EVER break, no matter how many times I pop 'em loose and back together, and I love 'em for it.

[bioniclepluslotr]

 

I feel that every single set I've bought so far is pretty much the same build, since all the socket pieces are all the same colors for the most part. They've got the black and gray, whereas the old ones have a variety of color to match the figure. Plus all the torso pieces are pretty much identical too.

It's kind of funny you say that. Most of the comments I see from Hero Factory fans about beam colors are in favor of using only black and/or Dark Stone Grey, and having fewer bright, contrasting colors. A lot of people like to keep the skeletons of their models in a single, neutral color and want complete freedom with what beams are available in that color, rather than more variety of colored beams.

 

But overall I agree that I'd love to see ball cups and beams in more colors, since I love using contrasting colors in my MOCs. We have plenty of useful beams in Bright Red, Black, Dark Stone Grey, and Medium Stone Grey, but few in White, Bright Yellow, or Bright Yellowish Green, and none whatsoever in colors like Bright Blue or Medium Lilac. And it'd be nice to see that change. I'd especially like to get a few Bright Blue beams in useful sizes, or a few more Bright Yellow and Bright Yellowish Green ones, since that would allow for a nice range of vibrant colors to use for parts of a model's skeleton.

 

Regarding every single set you've bought being the same build, though, that can be avoided if you're a bit more selective about which sets you buy. Savage Planet's villain sets included some nice non-humanoids like Fangz and Raw-Jaw, plus the amazingly innovative Witch Doctor. The small ($8.99) villain sets from the Breakout series were especially diverse, with sets like Jawblade, XT4, Toxic Reapa, and Thornraxx. Brain Attack mostly stuck with humanoid heroes and villains, but did offer the magnificent Dragon Bolt.

 

This year's new Machine sets finally give the hero sets a chance at that same sort of variety. Furno Jet Machine and Evo XL Machine are definitely the most creative designs in the first wave, but the summer is bringing lots of non-humanoid battle machines like Surge Combat Machine, Breez Flea Machine, and Bulk Drill Machine. I'm very much looking forward to getting good pictures of these sets from Toy Fair so I can see just how they're built and what kinds of creative building techniques they might have to offer.

 

I've only gotten the current Brain Attack ones, and so far they all include the exact same torso piece and three clawed feet. Like even Dragon Bolt has the same pieces.

[Removed297]

@NickonAquaMagna

 

When you say they've worn out, and yet not broken, what do you mean? Have they just loosened significantly?

 

@bioniclepluslotr

 

Though you make a point, many of the pieces are the same, or variations on the same pattern, in a way that is the strength of these components. Just look at any of the upcoming Invasion From Below sets to see how well these few pieces can be used. Though perhaps designed with a rather cookie-cutter humanoid build in mind, the new HF ball/socket frame pieces can be put together in many interesting ways quite easily and rewardingly, which is really the point of LEGO; to have a basic set of similar pieces that can be used as the building blocks of, well, anything, but with action figures and mechs in mind in the case of these components. Sure, BIONICLE was fun with its many new leg and torso and armor pieces, but they were often cast in a small selection of difficult-to-use colors and, though perhaps tempting to see when incorporated into the set it was designed for, were rarely a great boon to MOCers like the HF2.0+ components have been.

 

Perhaps it is boring, but to someone who loves messing around with useful parts, I prefer the HF design philosophy, which clearly separates the unvaried, universally useable "frame" components from the more specialized and potentially difficult-to-use "themed armor" pieces such as masks, printed snap-on armor, and weapons.

Edited January 25, 2014 by The Kumquat Alchemist

[bioniclepluslotr]

Picking up my bootleg Decool HF figures today. I'm thinking the sockets are gonna snap pretty quickly XD