How Many Alternate Takanuvas Are There?

[Dorkpool]

We know that the Takanuva from the MU we know and love went universe-hopping. But, considering that there are an infinite number of universes, wouldn't that mean that there's more than one universe-hopping Takanuva?

[JAG18]

Theoretically, yes. That pretty much is about as deep as you can go on this question.

[Katuko]

There could very well be, unless "Takanuva goes dimension-hopping" is one of the major split points. In that case we could have just one universe where he hit the target immediately, and one in which he accidentally was sent off course in inter-dimensional space. Other dimensions would not have him dimension-jump in the same way, possibly not at all due to changes in the story. There could potentially be other different ones based on which dimension he landed in, though. The alternate Great Beings from the dimension which Mazeka visited mention that it was only a matter of time before a being from one of their parallel universes were to interact with them, since they knew of their own tech and understood that their alternate selves would also have invented inter-dimensional travel at this point.

 

Personally I prefer to disregard most everything except the core dimension. Alternate dimensions open up so many can of worms that it's not even funny. As one Star Trek plot mentions, the protagonists were not all that fazed by seeing an alternate Enterprise being blown apart to save the others from the dimensional overlap, for some reason akin to "they were not the real us" or whatever. In the same vein, I found the battles of Dark Mirror to be cool, but not tense, because the alternate Toa were not important to the Core plot.

 

But yes, there could potentially be infinite dimension-hopping versions of Takanuva running around at this point. Whether they are even able to hit Core or any of the specific dimensions Takanuva landed in, however, is another matter. For all we know Core links into Toa Empire A, while another dimension would link into Toa Empire B instead due to some other difference in their past. Like, maybe Kongu died on Mata Nui due to a Rahi attack. This gives KonguDies!Takanuva different memories than Core!Takanuva, and he'd possibly end up with a different dimension-hopping path later. Maybe the lack of Kongu as a Toa Inika made Tamaru get the job, and maybe Tamaru made a decision that made the events on Voya Nui play out differently, and Brutaka never got mutated, and his Olmak was used at a different time, etc.

 

The Butterfly Effect makes it impossible to predict this beyond "yes, potentially".

Edited March 16, 2014 by Katuko

[Dorkpool]

A thought popped into my head: What if more than one Takanuva went into the Dark Mirror universe? By more than one, I mean a lot. So many that something like this happens:

Takanuva:“Where am I? What's going on?"

Lesovikk: “ANOTHER one? That's the third time this week!"

[Sybre]

I find it possible, mostly due to what Katuko said!

[Katuko]

Tridax pulled out many alternate versions of Takanuva and stuck them on Destral, as well. If he could do that, most likely some other dimension has a character doing the same by amassing a group of alt-versions of the same individual. Maybe one dimension has a Brutaka trio working together as an inter-dimensional justice squad, for all we know.

[Dorkpool]

The inter-dimensional justice squad sounds awesome. Like the BIONICLE version of the Exiles.

[ALVIS]

Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series introduces "what if" worlds in the second book, and they handle it really well. Their origin is never really explained beyond "a wizard did it, long ago when magic was more commonplace", but they function seamlessly and don't render the main plot any less important. Essentially, each of them are copies of the core universe, and some are more "real" than others. For example, the characters travel through one universe where their version of King Arthur was defeated in battle, and the entire landscape just shifts and fades and messes with their heads.

 

That, I'm convinced, is the best way to have your alternate-universe cake and eat it, too. You can explore a bunch of fun "what if" scenarios, but since they're all inferior variations of the main story, no one asks why the alternate characters don't cross over and screw up the main plot -- they're just "what if" copies of the characters, so of course they're not going to cross into the main universe. It all works much more simply and elegantly that way.

[Zox Tomana]

If there are an infinite number of alternate universes, then there are an infinite number of alternate Takanuvas hopping through portals. The chances of any two meeting a slim, because there is an infinite pool of universes to choose from. The question really answers itself with a resounding, "Yes, and an infinite number of them too."

Edited March 17, 2014 by Zox

[Phovos]

If you have infinite universes, you have infinite Takanuvas, even if not every universe has a Takanuva or even a Takua.

[Azani]

There isn't only an infinite number of alternate Takanuvas,there's an infinite number of alternate versions of any character or thing, because the number of alternate universes is itself infinite.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Artakha's Nephew

[V-N]

If there are an infinite number of alternate universes, then there are an infinite number of alternate Takanuvas hopping through portals. The chances of any two meeting a slim, because there is an infinite pool of universes to choose from. The question really answers itself with a resounding, "Yes, and an infinite number of them too."

 

I agree with this post. Especially since there are so many alternatives that prevent Takanuva from universe hopping; some universes may have Takanuva take the right path through the portal. Some universes may have the Olmak undamaged. Still other dimensions could have Takanuva travel to Karda-Nui by other means, such as Botar (or his replacement, I don't remember if he already died).

 

The point is, only a very small fraction of alternate dimensions should even have universe hopping Takanuvas, which, with an infinite number of dimensions, makes it very unlikely two Takanuvas will encounter each other, or even end in the same dimension.

 

You could even add that, since time moves faster or slower in some universes than other, all the dimension-hopping Takanuvas will not be traveling at the same time. *imagines a confused Takanuva showing up in an empty MU after the inhabitants migrated to Spherus Magna*

[Pomegranate]

You could also consider the core universe to be the "main" universe, with all alternate universe having branched off from it (like the base of the trunk or its roots or something, if branches are a tree analogy), sort of like Katuko's example of the Star Trek episode Parallels. If that's the case, it could be reasonable to think that the main universe is more important than the rest and protected by a sort of Law that prevents other universes from interacting with it, unless of course someone or something originating in the main universe is the cause. A sort of cosmic Destiny or plot-armor, basically. That could be why, as far as we're aware, our beloved Takanuva can go hopping between whatever universes he may, and these possibly infinite other sliding Takanuvas can go everywhere except the main universe-- unless they were brought there through the actions of Tridax, for example. Maybe this Law follows our Takanuva as well to ensure that he doesn't end up in the same place and time as a duplicate of himself? Although that's just unlikely as he had met poor jailed Takua in the Tuyetverse (because of all the mumbo jumbo that I just spouted, clearly that's the unlikely thing).

From what I remember of Dark Mirror, the universes he popped into weren't all that similar to eachother, so maybe there's indeed a finite amount of alternate universes, or at the very least, they're all different from eachother in at least one major way, rather than insanely insignificant ones like one molecule being in a different spot in one dimension than in another. That would certainly cut down on the number of sliding Takanuvas to worry about.

I think everyone is agreeing that one way or another, it's very likely that there is definitely more than one universe-hitchhiking Takanuva out there

Edited March 28, 2014 by The Darkest Hunter

[Quisoves Potoo]

Here's another can of worms. Under the standard sci-fi "make-a-decison-spawn-a-parallel-universe(s)" system that Greg embraces, the fact that a being in BIONICLE who leaves his universe does not return a moment after his departure (as seen clearly in the cases of Vezon and Mazeka) means that while that being is gone new universes are being split from the one he left, and that when he visits a parallel universe, that universe is also fragmenting (unless no free will normally exists there and he doesn't exercise his own there,) meaning that he now has multiple dimensions to return to and that there are multiple versions of him spawned from the other universes he visited, each one also trying to return to one of those universes.

So, how many dimension-hopping Takanvas have you seen today? And how many can dance on the head of a Chronicler's Staff?

[Dorkpool]

Now that I think about it...

Did the right Takanuva return to the right universe? What if he returned to a universe exactly the same as the original one he left, except for a minor difference or something?

[fishers64]

Now that I think about it...

Did the right Takanuva return to the right universe? What if he returned to a universe exactly the same as the original one he left, except for a minor difference or something?

It's definitely possible:

 

 

Page 247 Reply 1:

Q) When Takanuva used an Olmak to get to Karda Nui, how do we know that Takanuva arrived in the main Dimension? Also, how do we know that the Takanuva that arrived in the main Dimension isn't an alternate Takanuva that was sent out at the same time as prime Takanuva?

A) The second question I can tell you not to worry about. As for the first question ... well, we don't know, and neither does he, and doesn't that make things interesting?

[Azani]

 

Now that I think about it...

Did the right Takanuva return to the right universe? What if he returned to a universe exactly the same as the original one he left, except for a minor difference or something?

It's definitely possible:

 

 

Page 247 Reply 1:

Q) When Takanuva used an Olmak to get to Karda Nui, how do we know that Takanuva arrived in the main Dimension? Also, how do we know that the Takanuva that arrived in the main Dimension isn't an alternate Takanuva that was sent out at the same time as prime Takanuva?

A) The second question I can tell you not to worry about. As for the first question ... well, we don't know, and neither does he, and doesn't that make things interesting?

 

Greg isn't considering that it could have been the wrong dimension, though it's kind of ridiculous to be certain about that. However, the possibility that it were the wrong Takanuva who arrived in the core dimension, and that the original Takanuva is still desperately traveling between dimensions, trying to return to a home that doesn't exist anymore, is frightening.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Artakha's Nephew

[V-N]

LOL at Greg's answer.

 

@The Darkest Hunter: I'm not so sure that there is a "law" preventing other universes from interacting with the main one. After all, it wasn't Takanuva that "interacted" with the main universe when he was trying to get back home from the Dark Mirror dimension; it was Tuyet who opened the portal with the Olmak.

 

Unless the theory that Takanuva didn't return to the main dimension is true...

 

I guess, though, that Tridax also did sort of help lower the chances of multiple dimension-travelling Takanuvas running into each other.

[fishers64]

 

 

Page 247 Reply 1:

Q) When Takanuva used an Olmak to get to Karda Nui, how do we know that Takanuva arrived in the main Dimension? Also, how do we know that the Takanuva that arrived in the main Dimension isn't an alternate Takanuva that was sent out at the same time as prime Takanuva?

A) The second question I can tell you not to worry about. As for the first question ... well, we don't know, and neither does he, and doesn't that make things interesting?

 

Greg isn't considering that it could have been the wrong dimension, though it's kind of ridiculous to be certain about that. However, the possibility that it were the wrong Takanuva who arrived in the core dimension, and that the original Takanuva is still desperately traveling between dimensions, trying to return to a home that doesn't exist anymore, is frightening.

 

I honestly think that it's the other way around. (Emphasis is mine, done to match the questions...I'm confused.) It appears that Greg said that Takanuva didn't know that he arrived in the Core Dimension exactly. It appears to me that Greg denied that an alternate Takanuva arrived in the Core Dimension as opposed to the Core one as well.

Edited March 28, 2014 by fishers64

[Pomegranate]

@The Darkest Hunter: I'm not so sure that there is a "law" preventing other universes from interacting with the main one. After all, it wasn't Takanuva that "interacted" with the main universe when he was trying to get back home from the Dark Mirror dimension; it was Tuyet who opened the portal with the Olmak.

Ooooohhh dang, I think you're right. I'm getting rusty. Well, there goes that theory

 

Greg's answer is interesting 'cause it sounds like one of those hooks to introduce something new to the story later on, or for a quick retcon of what really happened.