Toa 'Bloodlines'

[Regitnui]

A matoran, when transforming into a Toa, subconsciously patterns their armour after Toa they've seen or idolize. The Toa Metru resembled Lhikan, and Takanuva resembled the Nova. So this is the proposal I have:

 

Toa 'designs' can be passed on. Toa Vakama resembled Toa Lhikan who could likely resemble Toa Dume. Dume could have originated the armour that the Metru inherited. Perhaps, then, Toa from different areas of the MU had different armour designs. A Northern Continent Toa would look different to a Southern Islands Toa, having inherited an armour design from their predecessor.

 

Interesting idea?

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

I imagine that is how it would work. That would explain why Greg never gave us a reason for Jovan's crazy combiner build

[Click]

I heard it was based on what the Matoran's idea of a Toa was. Unfortunately, we didn't have a set o a Toa transformed by someone other than their local Toa, so we can't test the theory.

[Regitnui]

The Toa Inika were transformed by the Red Star. Perhaps they were transformed into the locals' idea of a Toa (Jovan and his team) instead of their idea (Toa Nuva).

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

The Toa Inika were transformed by the Red Star. Perhaps they were transformed into the locals' idea of a Toa (Jovan and his team) instead of their idea (Toa Nuva).

Greg confirmed that the Toa Inika would have looked like the Toa Nuva, since that is what their idea of a Toa was, but their unique form of transformation was the reason for their shape. Also, Jovan had been dead since the Great Cataclysm when he was a Turaga.

[Regitnui]

So you're telling me the Voya Nui matoran all spontaneously forgot what a Toa looked like after Jovan became a Turaga? Top that with the Red Star confirmed to be controlled by sentient beings, I think the Inika's transformation was unique, but only in that it didn't income a Toa passing on power. The Inika should have resembled the Nuva. Instead, they resembled Southern Continent Toa. Did the Resistance Team have any difficulty recognizing the Inika as Toa? I propose that the Red Star transformation's other results: Lightning-mix elements, glowing faces, living masks were unique, but the armour change is a mere change of 'bloodline'.

 

The other matoran believing the Piraka were Toa shows some awareness that Toa can have different armour styles as well.

[Zox Tomana]

He didn't say anywhere that the Matoran would have forgotten what a Toa looked like, merely that their design different from the Nuva was said to be due to the method by which they were transformed, not by the idea of what a Toa should look like. The possibility that the Red Star mechanism transformed them according to the local image of Toa is still there. You do still see an influence of the Nuva, though, with the shape of the chest piece, and I would point towards the Metru/Lhikan for some influence on their shoulders, though it would be deeply subconscious. If the RS mechanism that transformed them had scanned the minds of the Voya Matoran, then it may have also applied that image to the Inika. Still possible.

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

So you're telling me the Voya Nui matoran all spontaneously forgot what a Toa looked like after Jovan became a Turaga? Top that with the Red Star confirmed to be controlled by sentient beings, I think the Inika's transformation was unique, but only in that it didn't income a Toa passing on power. The Inika should have resembled the Nuva. Instead, they resembled Southern Continent Toa. Did the Resistance Team have any difficulty recognizing the Inika as Toa? I propose that the Red Star transformation's other results: Lightning-mix elements, glowing faces, living masks were unique, but the armour change is a mere change of 'bloodline'.

 

The other matoran believing the Piraka were Toa shows some awareness that Toa can have different armour styles as well.

I doubt over 1000 years qualifies as spontaneously. Jovan became a Turaga directly after the Ignika mission We know they were without a Turaga for 1000 years, and since Jovan and his team did the Ignika mission 79,100 years before the Toa Ignika, we can assume that the Matoran of Voya Nui were without Toa for a very long time. Also, the Red Star was the entire reason for their entire transformation. I'd think the Piraka were Toa if I was a Matoran and hadn't seen a real Toa in way over 1000 years, too.

[Banana Gunz]

So you're telling me the Voya Nui matoran all spontaneously forgot what a Toa looked like after Jovan became a Turaga? Top that with the Red Star confirmed to be controlled by sentient beings, I think the Inika's transformation was unique, but only in that it didn't income a Toa passing on power. The Inika should have resembled the Nuva. Instead, they resembled Southern Continent Toa. Did the Resistance Team have any difficulty recognizing the Inika as Toa? I propose that the Red Star transformation's other results: Lightning-mix elements, glowing faces, living masks were unique, but the armour change is a mere change of 'bloodline'.

 

The other matoran believing the Piraka were Toa shows some awareness that Toa can have different armour styles as well.

 

The Voya-Nui matoran apparently never saw a toa before/in a long time and only the idea of toa made it through legend. (Hence why the Piraka were able to trick them into thinking that they were toa).Jovan died a long time ago so by then their memories became fuzzy. Plus who knows what all that time in Karzhani did to those poor matoran's minds. 

 

I do believe that the resistance team was unsure of the toa at first/tried to attack them thinking they were frauds. Don't quote me on this though, this is going from memory.

 

I don't see which change of bloodline you're talking about in terms of the inika. Toa don't really have bloodlines, they just look like what they think a toa should look like (regardless of what the people in the region they're currently in think). They would've looked like Nuva, but the Red Star changed them completely. The matoran would not have become toa without the Red Star's help when they came onto Voya-Nui (unless they found some pretty little random toa stones lying around). The energy from the Red Star is what caused them to become toa, and the living masks/energy weapons and such were a part of their toa transformation.

[Regitnui]

I'll clarify:

 

When I refer to a Toa's Bloodline, I'm referring to their armour design, which can be inherited from Toa they know and inherited by Matoran who transform after them. This may lead to Metru Nui Toa looking distinctly different to Northern Continent Toa to Southern Islands Toa.

 

The Inika might have been transformed to resemble Southern Continent Toa like Jovan by the controllers of the Red Star. So where they should be in the "Nuva Bloodline" (armour resembling Toa Nuva) like Takanuva, they are in the "Southern Continent Bloodline" (armour resembling Jovan).

 

The lightning-mix elements, glowing faces and living Kanohi were certainly artifacts of the Inika's method of transformation. Notably, they were lost during the ignika's haphazard transformation of them.

 

Otherwise, I might agree with your assessments.

[Banana Gunz]

I'll clarify:

 

When I refer to a Toa's Bloodline, I'm referring to their armour design, which can be inherited from Toa they know and inherited by Matoran who transform after them. This may lead to Metru Nui Toa looking distinctly different to Northern Continent Toa to Southern Islands Toa.

 

The Inika might have been transformed to resemble Southern Continent Toa like Jovan by the controllers of the Red Star. So where they should be in the "Nuva Bloodline" (armour resembling Toa Nuva) like Takanuva, they are in the "Southern Continent Bloodline" (armour resembling Jovan).

 

The lightning-mix elements, glowing faces and living Kanohi were certainly artifacts of the Inika's method of transformation. Notably, they were lost during the ignika's haphazard transformation of them.

 

Otherwise, I might agree with your assessments.

 

We don't really know whether or not the Inika are of the same "blood line" as toa Jovan. Their sets use the same parts, but look pretty different. They're their own thing because that's the way the Red Star transformed them. They weren't made to resemble any other toa or the toa of the "Southern Continent Bloodline". And technically there is no "Southern Continent Bloodline" because there haven't been toa there in many many years. Plus, if the toa in a certain region look similar it's because they lived there as matoran and imagined that's how toa looked. Not because that's where they lived. If a matoran in the southern continent never saw a toa before in their life, they might decide toa look like the nuva, whereas a matoran from the same tribe who has never seen a toa before might decide that a toa looks like the Inika. 

[Regitnui]

But that's my point. Its not a physical bloodline, but an inheritance of armour styles. "Bloodline" is an appropriate analogy. Hence the quotation marks. Biomechanical beings can't literally pass on genes, but it works.

[bonesiii]

A matoran, when transforming into a Toa, subconsciously patterns their armour after Toa they've seen or idolize. The Toa Metru resembled Lhikan, and Takanuva resembled the Nova. So this is the proposal I have:

 

Toa 'designs' can be passed on. Toa Vakama resembled Toa Lhikan who could likely resemble Toa Dume. Dume could have originated the armour that the Metru inherited. Perhaps, then, Toa from different areas of the MU had different armour designs. A Northern Continent Toa would look different to a Southern Islands Toa, having inherited an armour design from their predecessor.

Seems like a simple deduction that isn't really debatable. I wouldn't bother to reply except I notice some interesting points to discuss in the replies, so here we go.

 

 

So you're telling me the Voya Nui matoran all spontaneously forgot what a Toa looked like

This presumes they ever saw any. Remember they came from Karzahni. They would have been sent to him very early in history, probably before the lights came on or Mata Nui first awoke (or soon after), since word would spread fast of nobody coming home from there and thus nobody would be sent in soon after. At that time there were very few Toa in the world, so the chances of seeing any were slim. We don't know how long they spent in Karzahni's realm, and when they were sent out it was to a remote area that likewise probably never was encountered by Toa, until Jovan's team (which didn't go to the village). And Jovan became a Turaga before going to the village, apparently.

 

Either way, I'm not sure what you're directing that at, since no Voya Nui Matoran turned into a Toa (not as pictured anyways; some were mentioned in alternate universes, or at least Velika was).

 

For a (very) brief time, had any of them turned into Toa, they would probably look like a Skakdi.

 

Top that with the Red Star confirmed to be controlled by sentient beings

 

Again not sure why you're bringing it up, but it's confirmed to be maintained (poorly) by Kestora, not necessarily controlled per se. It seems unlikely that the Toa-izer is controlled by them. Most of its systems are probably automated, since some of them still work. (Because the Kestora seem far too insane to competently control anything.)

 

I think the Inika's transformation was unique, but only in that it didn't income a Toa passing on power. The Inika should have resembled the Nuva.

We don't know that. You'd have to rule out that there were any other factors before you could know that. Greg never said this was an absolute requirement, but rather that it is a possible factor (and that it was what mattered in certain cases). Remember the story is designed to revolve around sets which are unlikely to follow such a tendency strictly; they're designed to be innovative where that is affordable (and cloney at times when not ). The tendency was used because most of the time it would fit things well. The Inika were not timed that way, so for them it makes more sense to appeal to something else.

 

Besides, somebody had to change the designs at some point in history, or else everybody's mental image would always be the same! The very idea itself implies that there have to be other factors.

 

Instead, they resembled Southern Continent Toa.

We don't know that.

 

Did the Resistance Team have any difficulty recognizing the Inika as Toa?

The Nuva yes, but not because of their shapes, it was because, back when they didn't really know what Toa looked like, the Piraka impersonated Toa and turned out to be evil, so they weren't inclined to trust anybody who claimed to be one anymore. By the time the Inika came, the Nuva had already convinced them they really were Toa, and they seemed to be more willing to trust the Inika when they encountered them. I'm a little fuzzy again on the details of the first meeting, but I don't recall anything like their meeting the Nuva, so yarr.

 

I propose that the Red Star transformation's other results: Lightning-mix elements, glowing faces, living masks were unique, but the armour change is a mere change of 'bloodline'.

Well, I'll just take RT's word for it that Greg has disproven this, unless somebody else wants to dig up the quote. On the off chance that is misremembered, it's still reasonable that the RS transformation could have forced a design, since it wasn't merely a beam of TE (as shown by the organified masks). It was an actual power.

 

Another possibility is they were all disturbed by the distorted forms they'd just seen of Matoran in Karzahni, and weren't thinking much about Toa forms at the time, so it may have reverted to a default.

 

Still another is that Toa Mata forms and Inika form are actually meant to be roughly the same, and they thought of the Mata rather than the Nuva as they hadn't spent as much time with the Nuva forms of those characters like Takua had, for the most part.

 

I don't see why we would appeal to the 'bloodline' idea in their case, because they hadn't had a chance to see any other Toa form. Why do you opt for that?

 

The possibility that the Red Star mechanism transformed them according to the local image of Toa is still there.

I suppose that's another option, but it seems highly unlikely.

 

You do still see an influence of the Nuva, though, with the shape of the chest piece, and I would point towards the Metru/Lhikan for some influence on their shoulders, though it would be deeply subconscious.

That could make sense. The Turaga's tales of their past as Toa could have reawoken subconscious images of that form, and the Inika form could be a mix of Mata, Nuva, and Metru forms. Depends on how thorough the mindwipe was; we know language and basic motor skills were kept, so maybe some images could still be in there somewhere, forgotten but not erased maybe (blocked, and then become partially unblocked maybe).

 

If the RS mechanism that transformed them had scanned the minds of the Voya Matoran, then it may have also applied that image to the Inika. Still possible.

Problem is we have no evidence there's a telepathy scanner involved with the RS. Wouldn't it be much more efficient to simply program in a particular image as default?

 

And technically there is no "Southern Continent Bloodline" because there haven't been toa there in many many years.

That doesn't really work because it's mental image that creates the lines, not current presence. (And I'm not sure if a canon source actually says that. It's a big place; I wouldn't assume there were no Toa on the continent as a whole, though what matters here is the Karzatoran's village.)

[Regitnui]

Alright, fair enough, bonesiii. I just think it makes good sense and perhaps opens up the MU a little. Regional variations exist in the Matoran language, so why not in armour styles and shapes? I'd even take it a step further and say we may even see Toa resembling Glatorian now that both species are living together.