Is Makuta 2015 really the villain?

[bonesiii]

Although it's described as a legend, I don't think that's the right term in the literal sense here, at least not in the sense that the Turaga's tales of 2001 were. Those were shown with symbolic stones, but the Ekimu versus Makuta events were portrayed onscreen directly.

 

Plus, Okoto itself was described as "mythical", so such terms are evidently either not meant to be taken seriously, or may suggest some sort of meta-reality that would apply to the whole G2 canon, not just the past legends.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Although it's described as a legend, I don't think that's the right term in the literal sense here, at least not in the sense that the Turaga's tales of 2001 were. Those were shown with symbolic stones, but the Ekimu versus Makuta events were portrayed onscreen directly.

 

Plus, Okoto itself was described as "mythical", so such terms are evidently either not meant to be taken seriously, or may suggest some sort of meta-reality that would apply to the whole G2 canon, not just the past legends.

Um.... Do you come with Subtitles?

[TungstenToa]

For my own part, I would very much like to see a good Makuta. We never got to hear his version of the story in the Original Bionicle. It would be nice to be able to really get a good look into his heart in the reboot. Also, how can we be sure that the narrator of the events in the clip-movies is trustworthy? For all we now events could be wildly distorted. The creation of the Ultimate Power Mask could have been Makuta's plan to try to help Akimu, or restore Balance, or establish a new order. And Akimu, afraid of progress or change could have foolishly stopped MAkuta halfway-through his transformation process.  To the narrator it might look as though MAkuta was trying to destroy the island and that Akimu stopped him. But who gets to look into the motives of the gods?

[Regitnui]

They aren't gods! They're Mask Makers. Presumably they are stronger or more powerful somehow that regular villagers, but then so are the protectors. Makuta 2015 is not Teridax, and so what you hoped for Teridax has no bearing on 2015's actions.

 

And in any case, why would a TLC pull the Unreliable Narrator on children? It's safer to assume everything the narrator said is true, and hope for the MoUP to be controlling a jealous Chaotic Good Makuta than the story painting a Lawful Good Makuta as the villain because the Protectors are Chaotic Evil.

[IcarusBen]

Actually, I was hoping for the Protectors to be Good, Ekimu to be Lawful Good and Makuta Chaotic Good.

 

Plus, why can't TLG pull the Unreliable Narrator? They haven't done it before, doesn't mean that they won't ever do it.

[Owlexander]

I don't want Makuta to be the villian, I want him to be 'chaotic-good', being a rogue, but helping the Toa only when there's something in it for him.

[Regitnui]

Plus, why can't TLG pull the Unreliable Narrator? They haven't done it before, doesn't mean that they won't ever do it.

Because children's stories tend towards a more black-and-white portrayal of the world. There's a clearly defined bad guy, clearly defined heroes. Even if there are morally grey characters, they're grey from the start until the end. The narrator is reliable not because a child can't handle it otherwise, but for simplicity's sake. Unreliable narrators are an advanced narrative device.

 

Above all, BIONICLE is a story about toys written for children. Never forget that. Just because we've grown up, doesn't mean that our toys grow with us. This is even truer now that this is a reboot. They're not aiming this at us but new children. Of course, they like to keep us happy, but Lego is a toy company. Their market is children.

 

So in short, don't expect complexity and sophisticated writing from a toy.

[ALVIS]

I don't want Makuta to be the villian, I want him to be 'chaotic-good', being a rogue, but helping the Toa only when there's something in it for him.

 

You're describing a Neutral alignment. A Chaotic Good character would help the Toa whenever there were people that needed help.

[IcarusBen]

 

Plus, why can't TLG pull the Unreliable Narrator? They haven't done it before, doesn't mean that they won't ever do it.

Because children's stories tend towards a more black-and-white portrayal of the world. There's a clearly defined bad guy, clearly defined heroes. Even if there are morally grey characters, they're grey from the start until the end. The narrator is reliable not because a child can't handle it otherwise, but for simplicity's sake. Unreliable narrators are an advanced narrative device.

 

Above all, BIONICLE is a story about toys written for children. Never forget that. Just because we've grown up, doesn't mean that our toys grow with us. This is even truer now that this is a reboot. They're not aiming this at us but new children. Of course, they like to keep us happy, but Lego is a toy company. Their market is children.

 

So in short, don't expect complexity and sophisticated writing from a toy.

 

Never, ever, ever underestimate children. A good part of Bionicle's target age group are thoughtful individuals who appreciate good storytelling. Just 'cause they're young doesn't make them unable to cope with plot twists or the plot lying to them. People always pull the "kids can't handle it" card and a part of me dies each time someone says that. Just because it's intended for kids doesn't mean it can't have complexity. 

 

In essence, kid =/= dumb.

 

EDIT: Misread that sentence, but my point still stands in lieu of everything after that. Your post is kinda contradictory, methinks.

Edited January 20, 2015 by IcarusBen

[Prowl Nightwolf]

I think I miss something but agree that children are not inherently dumb just because they are children. True time and experience brings wisdom and thus children may not be "wise" but as a child who had vast knowledge but was unable to convey said knowledge just because I was a kid. Either I got "You are a kid and don't know anything or what you're talking about." Or was plagued with the poor vocabulary skills that are common with children. Children are not dumb or incapable of understanding complex logic or themes just because we as adults belittle them just for being kids. True some may be less capable, and thus the general consensus. This does not make it true...

 

On a side note we Adults are big kids with big toys. One's age does not disqualify them as being a kid. Yes Lego is a toy company and often children are depicted in ads. This does not mean they are no more meant for children. Just don't mention the age restrictions listed on packages. Because that would just debunk my whole argument...

[Owlexander]

 

On a side note we Adults are big kids with big toys. 

 

Phrasing. XD

[Regitnui]

My point was that Lego is a company selling toys that are called bionicle. The story is designed to sell toys to kids, so it won't be complex.

[IcarusBen]

Just because it's an excuse plot doesn't mean it can't be complex. That's my point. Never underestimate kids.

[Ford]

People: it's a toy line. Calm down. 

[Regitnui]

People: it's a toy line. Calm down.

Thanks. I don't know why it's such a problem that we are extremely unlikely we'll have an Unreliable Narrator or similarly advanced plot. We can get a non-evil antagonist, but we're not likely to get narration gimmicks. Edited January 20, 2015 by Regitnui

[fishers64]

 

Although it's described as a legend, I don't think that's the right term in the literal sense here, at least not in the sense that the Turaga's tales of 2001 were. Those were shown with symbolic stones, but the Ekimu versus Makuta events were portrayed onscreen directly.

 

Plus, Okoto itself was described as "mythical", so such terms are evidently either not meant to be taken seriously, or may suggest some sort of meta-reality that would apply to the whole G2 canon, not just the past legends.

Um.... Do you come with Subtitles?

 

No, but I did and he stole mine. Typical bones.  

 

The Legend:

 

A long time ago in the on the mythical island of Okoto, all lived in harmony. It was a place of wonders and beautiful landscapes.

[J46 Nui]

I think that Makuta may not be the villain for different reasons.

 

First, I do not believe anyone else besides Ekimu and Makuta were around during their confrontation. Otherwise, how would a villager survive a blast that knocked the significantly more powerful Mask Makers into comas?

 

I think that the Protectors found the bodies of the Mask-Makers, who are both mask-less at this point, and made their own assumptions at this point. Since they obviously liked Ekimu's work better, they cast him as the good guy and Makuta as the bad guy. So I think there is a chance that Ekimu made the Mask of Ultimate Power (he was the more skilled mask maker after all), and the Protectors just assume that Makuta did it. And since everyone's masks had been knocked off, it would be hard to prove who was using what mask.

 

And it is totally possible that Lego would use an unreliable narrator. Bionicle G1 did it, and more importantly, Ninjago just did it last year with the legends of the Serpentine being completely evil were proved false.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Yeah I can see where this could be a possibility. Though we are talking epicenter verses safety zone right? I mean it is likely no mater where a particular villager was on the island they both felt the aftershock of Makuta and Akimu's short fight an also saw what could be equivalent of a mushroom cloud from the displaced land. Thus rushing from all corners of the Island to what could be that temple with the forge to find their two Mask Makers laying in the rubble. Now did the Protectors hide the assorted masks themselves or did the aftershock do the damage for them? I mean if they had their masks then while the MoUP was displaced from Akimu's strike the remaining two masks may have been near by. Because they were too powerful for a normal villager or Protector to handle and both mask makers were indisposed the Protectors decided to hide the masks. These Hiding places were lost to time as Generation after generation passed down the story.

 

The reason Akimu was not buried with his Mask of Creation was because somebody could rob it from his sleeping corps. So they gave him a "protector" mask instead. Over some generations however things went from bad to worse with the arrival of the LoSS and the Skull Spiders as a whole. So now the Protectors are not able to do their jobs without aid so they summon the Toa with that ritual.

 

So it is not unheard of that maybe not all the facts of this legend may in fact be facts and not just speculations on the part of whomever has been passing down this story from generation to generation.

[IcarusBen]

So, instead of Unreliable Narrator, we've got a Really-Doesn't-Know-What-He's-Talking-About Narrator.

 

Interesting... very interesting...

 

Also, Prowl, it's Ekimu. With an E. Not A-kimu, E-kimu.

Edited January 21, 2015 by IcarusBen

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Yeah spelling was never my strong suit.. E-kimu? See if I can remember that but no promises. Well this was just a hypothesis I had based on what was already said. I mean depending on what state both mask makers were in when they were discovered and by whom could influence what is told and what story is believed to be truth,

[IcarusBen]

I see. For all we know, Ekimu and Makuta could've just been playing with a few chemicals lying about and WHAM! KO'd. It all depends on how the villagers learn about the fight.

 

Also, at least you're not spelling my name. I swear, one day, I'll be called up as a witness and they'll say;

• Mr. Benjamin Soto, do you swea-
• Actually, it's Benyamin. Ben-YUH-min.
• It says here "Benjamin." Our records say Benjamin.
• Well, I'm Benyamin.
• Hehehe, no you aren't. Next question.

My tombstone will say "Benjamin Soto, 2000-2126. We think that's how you spell it."

[UnderscoreChronix]

*cough* garmadon *cough*

[Prowl Nightwolf]

I see. For all we know, Ekimu and Makuta could've just been playing with a few chemicals lying about and WHAM! KO'd. It all depends on how the villagers learn about the fight.

Exactly. History is filled with stories that could be distorted by those who were there. It is possible that while Makuta took quite a hit and was knocked out from both the surge of power from his mask along with the shock of it being removed knocked him out but Ekimu was still "alive" when the first villager arrived and thus was told what happened. So now ask yourself... Did Ekimu tell it like it is or brandish what he wanted people to think? What about whomever arrived first? what did they hear or see to tell the others?

 

My tombstone will say "Benjamin Soto, 2000-2126. We think that's how you spell it."

 

2000-2126 seriously? what are you a Chinese monk or something. 

 

*cough* garmadon *cough*

Yeah I don't think Garmadon told the Villagers what happened between Ekimu and Makuta.

[Xabla]

 

Plus, why can't TLG pull the Unreliable Narrator? They haven't done it before, doesn't mean that they won't ever do it.

Because children's stories tend towards a more black-and-white portrayal of the world. There's a clearly defined bad guy, clearly defined heroes. Even if there are morally grey characters, they're grey from the start until the end. The narrator is reliable not because a child can't handle it otherwise, but for simplicity's sake. Unreliable narrators are an advanced narrative device.

 

Above all, BIONICLE is a story about toys written for children. Never forget that. Just because we've grown up, doesn't mean that our toys grow with us. This is even truer now that this is a reboot. They're not aiming this at us but new children. Of course, they like to keep us happy, but Lego is a toy company. Their market is children.

 

So in short, don't expect complexity and sophisticated writing from a toy.

 

Your words should be etched in gold.

[IcarusBen]

My tombstone will say "Benjamin Soto, 2000-2126. We think that's how you spell it."

 

2000-2126 seriously? what are you a Chinese monk or something. 

 

 

 

I'm sure I'll make it to 2126. Remember, Technology Marches On.

[Regitnui]

 

 

 

Plus, why can't TLG pull the Unreliable Narrator? They haven't done it before, doesn't mean that they won't ever do it.

Because children's stories tend towards a more black-and-white portrayal of the world. There's a clearly defined bad guy, clearly defined heroes. Even if there are morally grey characters, they're grey from the start until the end. The narrator is reliable not because a child can't handle it otherwise, but for simplicity's sake. Unreliable narrators are an advanced narrative device.

 

Above all, BIONICLE is a story about toys written for children. Never forget that. Just because we've grown up, doesn't mean that our toys grow with us. This is even truer now that this is a reboot. They're not aiming this at us but new children. Of course, they like to keep us happy, but Lego is a toy company. Their market is children.

 

So in short, don't expect complexity and sophisticated writing from a toy.

Your words should be etched in gold.

Thank you, sir. That s quite the compliment.