Science Topic

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Well, different parts of the Earth rotate at different speeds - the equator rotates the fastest, the poles rotate the slowest. This keeps everything moving together, and produces the Coriolis Effect. Still, though, it's quite unlikely that they would have failed to either account for simple things like this or design their experiment to make sure they didn't effect the experiment.

[Lara White]

If they made that mistake, then I can guarantee you that it would have been pointed out already. One of my biggest resources for science fiction stuff says:

So you know, university Physics is essentially three years of this discussion among like-minded enthusiasts.Done with supercomputers, access to the textbook collections of five continents and thirty languages.On four hours sleep a night.You're not going to find the loophole these guys missed.

So yeah, there's that.

[55555]

So, anyone care to explain why stealth in space (sensor visibility, not visible) is impossible?

I don't see why standard stealth faceting would not work in space. Radar would still be largely useless against faceted objects.However if your accelerating with any of the known ways of doing so, you would be giving off light in various forms that would be detectable.I think.- 55555

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Yes. University for any science is pretty much like that - not just in class, but out of it. The people that go on to become important in their fields are the same ones that tended to stay up as late as the nearest coffee-shop or cafe would let them, debating whatever the hottest issues in their field are.Well, except we Marine Science people don't get supercomputers. Except maybe on February 30th.

Edited January 22, 2012 by The Shadows Out of Time

[We Are _G.R.I.D_]

hmmm.... my main thing is that, technically speaking, if neutrinos can shoot through the earth(BTW, to the dude that was asking about the neutrino, it is my understanding they shot it through the earth from one side to the other, though i could be wrong)with no hindrance whatsoever, then who is to say that they know whether they are on a planet and supposed to spin with it or not?just sayin, if you can ignore mass, why still be bound to its gravity?

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

They don't interact directly with the objects, as in they don't collide with them, but neutrinos still have mass and are thus affected by gravity.

[Eeko]

However, due to the extreme speeds of the particles. The relatively slow speeds of the earth's rotation, and the slow acceleration due to gravity are negligible.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Well, yes. Of course, due to the extreme speeds of photons, and the fact that they are precisely massless, the effects of gravity are pretty negligible for them as well.Which brings me to the question - what do we know of the precise set-up of this experiment?

[We Are _G.R.I.D_]

Well, yes. Of course, due to the extreme speeds of photons, and the fact that they are precisely massless, the effects of gravity are pretty negligible for them as well.Which brings me to the question - what do we know of the precise set-up of this experiment?

information pertaining to the precise set up of this experiment:Known by Me: None (stipend; it is assumed due to logical analysis of earlier posts that the neutrino was "shot through the earth" )Known by Others: Unknownstupid lag, i expected to get a double post from the lag, and instead got double message, lol Edited January 25, 2012 by We Are _G.R.I.D_

[Space: Ocean of Awe]

What's this about credentials? I think this would be far more enjoyable to everyone if we just forgot about that. Especially because the people who haven't got much to show, like myself, might feel slightly discouraged from posting, lest their posts be overlooked because of their poor credentials, or they feel inadequate beside other posters. I don't feel discouraged or anything, I just thought this could be a problem. But anyways, I'll go along with this:Other than the curriculum and a couple homeschool classes, I haven't exactly been "taught" any science stuff. However I can say that I am definitely very interested in anything science related and always leap at the opportunity to learn more about my favourite subjects.When I was 10-12 (can't remember how old) my dad read a very interesting astronomy book titled "Secrets of the Night Sky" to me as a kind of bedtime story.If somebody mentions something "science" that I don't know about, I'll usually look it up later on, if I don't forget to.If I find a topic particularly interesting, I can spend days, weeks, even a few months researching it.Unless purely speculative, I try to research a lot to make sure my ideas, theories, inventions, or anything else along those lines are at least semi-plausible. Same goes for when I am writing a science fiction story. I'll keep my mouth shut (or my hands off the keyboard) if I'm not entirely sure about what I'm saying.That's what I can think of for now. Now for the actual reason for posting: I recently came across a very interesting site when I was looking up the word "Why" on Google (just to see what would come up). It's about science, I haven't explored it very deeply, but hope to soon. What I have read has been quite interesting, and I hope whoever reads it will find it interesting as well. Here's the link.=)

[Taka Nuvia]

That website definitely looks interesting, thanks for providing a link! :)As for credentials, I am about to finish school (this year), can't really give you info on classes or anything since I'm rather sure the scholar system works a bit differently over here... and I want to start studying physics next year. :shrugs:But I suppose general interest is far more important.

[Adventurer]

Credentials... well, I've been watching the Science Channel and Discovery Channel since I was younger than ten. Does that count? That and I've read through a basic college-level physics textbook (though as I said in my earlier post in this topic, I didn't take to the math part).I doubt Earth's rotation had anything to do with the neutrino arriving sooner. I'm assuming the neutrino experiment was done in a straight line on or near the Earth's surface; if I'm wrong on that matter, please correct me.The Earth rotates at a near-constant speed, correct? That means everything on the Earth is rotating with it. If you're in an enclosed, windowless train room, and the train was moving at a constant speed of, say, fifty miles per hour, if you dropped a ball, it would fall straight down because it's moving with the rest of the train. If the train were decelerating and you dropped the ball, the ball would move to the front of the train (though of course you can't know if the train is decelerating or accelerating, as both manners of acceleration provide equal effects). The same thing happens with the Earth: We can't feel it moving. So why should neutrinos be exempt from such an effect?If I'm wrong about the experiment, I'd like some clarification.

I kinda just skimmed over this conversation so sorry if I'm saying something irrelevant or whatnot, but the argument I saw about the Earth's rotation affecting the experiment results was something to do with sattelites used in measuring something or other in the experiment? So the difference in measurement could have come from the different relativistic speeds of the sattellite, Earth and the nuetrinos? I didn't read much of the article either though so whatever.

[Legolover-361]

I haven't read the article, period. I don't know where it is.

[Pinkie Pie]

Credentials... well, I've been watching the Science Channel and Discovery Channel since I was younger than ten. Does that count? That and I've read through a basic college-level physics textbook (though as I said in my earlier post in this topic, I didn't take to the math part).I doubt Earth's rotation had anything to do with the neutrino arriving sooner. I'm assuming the neutrino experiment was done in a straight line on or near the Earth's surface; if I'm wrong on that matter, please correct me.The Earth rotates at a near-constant speed, correct? That means everything on the Earth is rotating with it. If you're in an enclosed, windowless train room, and the train was moving at a constant speed of, say, fifty miles per hour, if you dropped a ball, it would fall straight down because it's moving with the rest of the train. If the train were decelerating and you dropped the ball, the ball would move to the front of the train (though of course you can't know if the train is decelerating or accelerating, as both manners of acceleration provide equal effects). The same thing happens with the Earth: We can't feel it moving. So why should neutrinos be exempt from such an effect?If I'm wrong about the experiment, I'd like some clarification.

I kinda just skimmed over this conversation so sorry if I'm saying something irrelevant or whatnot, but the argument I saw about the Earth's rotation affecting the experiment results was something to do with sattelites used in measuring something or other in the experiment? So the difference in measurement could have come from the different relativistic speeds of the sattellite, Earth and the nuetrinos? I didn't read much of the article either though so whatever.

Satellites are what were used to time everything. I'm almost positive that's the first thing that would get checked.

[Eeko]

Based on what I read, the first test they did counted the relative motion of the satellites, but not the time dilation due to relativity between the satelited and earth. However, they did a second test which accounted for relativity, and the results still held.

[ShellHead]

Any grinders (DIY transhumanism) here? I'm thinking of putting an implant in my hand.

[Alex Humva]

Uh, implant? In your hand? Look, I'm all for DIY and stuff, but some things are better left to professionals. You know how annoying an infection in your hand would be?If you want something, make it external. Actually implanting stuff though? Unless you're a doctor, I'd suggest keeping away from cutting yourself.

[ShellHead]

Its not hard at all, they sell medical alcohol and I've already preformed some amateur surgeries on myself. infection is easy to prevent when you maintain and OCD level of cleanliness. Honestly I'd be more worried about the pain which you must experience because pain killers would dull your lucidity and prevent you from preforming the operation properly.

[Alex Humva]

While I love alcohol as a disinfectant, I'd still be pretty concerned. Cutting oneself just rarely works out well; and you're working at the hand. A little slip by hitting the wrong nerve and you cut your wrist open, then you have a whole new problem.If nothing else, try to find someone else to do the cutting; unless you're special forces trained, you typically want someone else holding the knife. Then you can use painkillers and all that.

[Taka Nuvia]

I believe that nearly any kind of body modification, especially when it comes to sensitive parts of the body, should be performed by a professional. Really. The risk of damage is far too great. Oo... are you really serious about this?

[ShellHead]

@Taka Nuvia, I've already improved myself with this method. I am my own professional.

[Alex Humva]

Uh, yeah. Surgeons take eight to twelve years of intensive schooling to cut people open. Unless you at least have four years in medical training and/or have served in the armed forces, where infantry men need to do that in a pinch if a medic isn't near, I doubt you can call yourself your own professional.

[ShellHead]

I have vast knowledge in the fields I need; I know the autonomy of the human body, its functions and its failings and I have training in veterinarian surgery which honestly isn't too different from human surgery. Just because you don't know what you're doing doesn't give you right to assume I dont.

[Pinkie Pie]

So, what exactly are you implanting?

[ShellHead]

I'm thinking of a transdermal barcode reader that would hook up wirelessly to my smart phone and give me information. The only problem is transdermal implants are almost impossible to keep clean

[Pinkie Pie]

What other types of things have you done?

[~Shockwave~]

here's a (theoretical) question for you all.if you go back in time and kill your grandfather, what happens next.have fun with that

[ShellHead]

@Pinkie PieMagnetic disk in my finger tips ala Lepht Anonym

[Lara White]

ShellHead: NO! No no, nonono, no. For the love of all that is good, please do NOT try that without a certified human-experienced surgeon doing it. Putting aside my moral qualms with transhumanism, it simply isn't safe. You shouldn't do it for the same reason that a lay-Trekkie isn't working on the LHC: he did not spend years and years working on the cutting edge of his field, merely read a few books on high-energy physics and thought he was an expert. Even when i write stuff about physics, I assume there's something I'm doing wrong. You're toying with your own life here, man.Even if I can't appeal to you that way. Look at a benefit v. risk assessment. On the pros side, you have a barcode reader, making it easier to do stuff with you smart phone. On the risk side, you have a piece of metal grinding around in your hand risking cutting a nerve or a blood vessel, you have possible infection, eventually leading to necrosis and possible amputation. Is it worth the risk?

[Transcendence]

And what will you do when the new iPhone comes out? Remove the implant and insert a new one? Do you really want to become C-3PO?

[Taka Nuvia]

@Taka Nuvia, I've already improved myself with this method. I am my own professional.

No offense meant but I don't think it works that way.It's like saying I've done many drawings, so I am a professional artist. Nuh-uh.This is not meant as an insult or anything, really. I'm just a bit worried, and can't understand why someone wants to cut themselves. *shudders*

I'm thinking of a transdermal barcode reader that would hook up wirelessly to my smart phone and give me information. The only problem is transdermal implants are almost impossible to keep clean

... and what will you do when it breaks or anything?Don't get me wrong, body modifications are interesting, and the thought of self-enhancement is a rather appealing one, but... I doubt technology is already sophisticated enough for that.What's with the materials? I'm rather sure not all of them are suitable for being inserted into any kind of living organism.Last but not least, why a barcode reader? Oo~~~~~

here's a (theoretical) question for you all.if you go back in time and kill your grandfather, what happens next.have fun with that

I think that question is about as old as the idea of time travel itself xD Nice try, though.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

The problem with getting a professional to put a bar-code reader in your hand is that they'll look at you, laugh, and say "No, that's a bad idea."And you know what?They're right. You can get a barcode-reader... on your phone.

[Pinkie Pie]

It's his hand. Chill out guys.Anyway, what would your procedure be for putting magnets and stuff in your hand? And how do you manage the pain?

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

It's his hand, yes. In that hand are arteries, nerves, and, oh yes, one-half of a great set of equipment for manipulating the environment.Add to it the fact that you would have an easier time putting a barcode-reader directly into the phone he says the reader's for anyway, and it's a hilariously bad idea.

[Alex Humva]

I'd like to point out that, for the last two years or so, smartphone cameras have been good enough to just take a picture and figure out the barcode from that. You don't even need a barcode reader.Also, saying "it's just your hand" is akin to saying "it's just your foot." These things are bloody important.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Also, DIY surgery is pretty bad in general. I mean, I tried to graft a spoon to my mouth to make eating soup easier, and look what happened.

[Pinkie Pie]

My point being, it's not your hand, it's his. If he screws up in a horrible fashion, sucks for him. You can tell him you were right, or whatever. Your hand is safe from harm.

[Lara White]

Your point being...? If we followed your idea, we'd take the warning labels off of everything and let stupid solve itself. While I do like to joke about it, in real life it's rather serious. I generally approach social interaction with the idea of the Golden Rule.And if we just told him "I told you so" we would look like insensitive cool dudes.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Lloyd: the White Wolf

[Eeko]

Might I remind people that this topic is for discussing Science. Not for the discussion of whether or not ShellHead should perform self-surgery.In other news, it appears that the neutrino experiment had a bad Fiber Optic connection, and they're retesting to try and account for it.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Aibohphobia

[Lara White]

Indeed, I'd heard that. Personally I hope that it wasn't the fiber optic connection and that the readings were genuine, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.