Bionicle: The Legend of Mata Nui Beta released!

[CyclonatorZ]

After 18 years, the wait is finally over!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfWVo9kW88

Edited May 12, 2018 by Zarkan: Master of Storms

[Pohaturon]

I've been watching this unfold on Twitter. Monumental event in the history of Bionicle, and for the community.

 

[Taria Pakari]

Blimey, so soon after the alpha? That's a surprise.

[SamDrew]

Wow!!

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

I know this is the third time I've posted this, but...

 

 

 

 

This is the best thing that's happened to us since we learned there was going to be a fourth movie!

 

(G2? What G2?)

[Planetperson]

Blimey, so soon after the alpha? That's a surprise.

 

Actually, this is exactly what I hoped would happen -- that the alpha would drum up enough excitement in the community that people in possession of the beta would finally be motivated to release it. And sure enough, it looks like that's the way things worked out.

 

This is a great day for the Bionicle community. Kudos to all the people at Beaverhouse and elsewhere who made this possible.

[Pohaturon]

Amid the torrent of promotion and cross promotion the various individuals involved with this, I'm confused. Is Liam Robertson the same individual as Vahkiti, who is also Liam, or is Vahkiti a different Liam? 

 

[Planetperson]

Amid the torrent of promotion and cross promotion the various individuals involved with this, I'm confused. Is Liam Robertson the same individual as Vahkiti, who is also Liam, or is Vahkiti a different Liam? 

 

 

No idea, but it doesn't sound to me like they are the same person.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Amid the torrent of promotion and cross promotion the various individuals involved with this, I'm confused. Is Liam Robertson the same individual as Vahkiti, who is also Liam, or is Vahkiti a different Liam? 

 

Two different Liams, both instrumental in getting this out to us.

[Illuminatus]

*takes deep breath*

 

I've been waiting for this moment since 2001 and I'm so grateful to everyone involved for managing to reach out to the right people and put this all together.

 

Thank you.

 

Unfortunately, I'm already facing a bunch of issues that are real buzzkills.

 

For one thing, it took me way too long to realize how I was supposed to install and patch the game on Windows 10 amidst all the different downloads on BMP and the various other links across different websites. There was no way I could know the launcher attempted to run the game from a "LEGO Bionicle (Beta)" folder instead of just "LEGO Bionicle" until I downloaded the game all over via the launcher and installed it afterwards. A few simple step-by-step instructions on both BMP and the launcher would be great in addressing this issue.

 

Now, as soon as I run the game (properly patched) I can't seem to open it in full screen and the cursor is invisible in the front end menu, which makes navigation a bit difficult.

 

The game itself seems to lag a lot and I'm not sure if that's a hardware issue or a matter of compatibility. I'll have to try it on a couple of other systems because the gameplay is a bit tedious, specifically the jumping; I can't ever seem to get any Toa to jump at the right moment and I always end up falling off platforms.

 

Do you guys think you could design the game so that it immediately loads the front end and lets you play the game from start to finish like a true end user (lol)? And speaking of finish, how much from the game is left undeveloped anyway? Does it just suddenly stop halfway across the Makuta level?

 

My question is can it essentially be "hacked" into looking like a finished game intended for play by end users?

[Techn0geist]

Blimey, been a while since I've visited here...

I've seen things about this game popping up for ages now, broken betas and whatnot, and wondered what could've been. Now that we can actually literally download a mostly-complete beta and actually literally PLAY this holy grail of a game... I STILL wonder what could've been because this thing is a right pain in the backside to get running!   

 

However, with the Beaverhouse launcher I could finally patch it to run on Windows 10, and after some fiddling to get it running fullscreen... I could play... and S T I L L wonder what could've been because there's no bloody tutorial and keyboard mashing will not reveal any of the controls past walking and firing out those little energy ball thingies!

 

Guess I'll wait for another patch   

 

For real though, thank you SO much to everyone involved in this project, those who provided and acquired this final build, and the dev team who have sprung up to actually finish the game. You're doing legendary work!!

[CyclonatorZ]

*takes deep breath*

 

I've been waiting for this moment since 2001 and I'm so grateful to everyone involved for managing to reach out to the right people and put this all together.

 

Thank you.

 

Unfortunately, I'm already facing a bunch of issues that are real buzzkills.

 

For one thing, it took me way too long to realize how I was supposed to install and patch the game on Windows 10 amidst all the different downloads on BMP and the various other links across different websites. There was no way I could know the launcher attempted to run the game from a "LEGO Bionicle (Beta)" folder instead of just "LEGO Bionicle" until I downloaded the game all over via the launcher and installed it afterwards. A few simple step-by-step instructions on both BMP and the launcher would be great in addressing this issue.

 

Now, as soon as I run the game (properly patched) I can't seem to open it in full screen and the cursor is invisible in the front end menu, which makes navigation a bit difficult.

 

The game itself seems to lag a lot and I'm not sure if that's a hardware issue or a matter of compatibility. I'll have to try it on a couple of other systems because the gameplay is a bit tedious, specifically the jumping; I can't ever seem to get any Toa to jump at the right moment and I always end up falling off platforms.

 

Do you guys think you could design the game so that it immediately loads the front end and lets you play the game from start to finish like a true end user (lol)? And speaking of finish, how much from the game is left undeveloped anyway? Does it just suddenly stop halfway across the Makuta level?

 

My question is can it essentially be "hacked" into looking like a finished game intended for play by end users?

 

You've just barely started playing I see. Well, I hate to break it to you, but it only goes downhill from there. The game was completely broken when it was handed to the Beaverhouse, and despite a month of working on it, it still largely is. They just had a stream of the beta tonight, and Vahkiti made ample use of no-clip and level select cheats just to get around the constant crashes and buggy, unbalanced, and outright incomplete sections. There's a massive amount work ahead before the game is even possible to play from start to finish without the debug menu.

[Zidonaro]

I wish we could fight Teridax and the Shadow Toa  

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

I wish we could fight Teridax and the Shadow Toa

Are these guys actually in this build?

[Zidonaro]

 

I wish we could fight Teridax and the Shadow Toa

Are these guys actually in this build?

 

Nope, that's why I'm quite sad. They were never added during development.

[Illuminatus]

Okay, I just spent the last three hours playing through Onua's level up until the boss fight but while I was trying to figure out how to use my glyph at the Kini I decided to enter a previous zone (the one leading to the Kini) and now I get an "unhandled exception" error every time I try to load my game.

 

This is pretty upsetting. Can anyone maybe make my save file work properly?

[Planetperson]

Oh, hello there 2015...

 

https://youtu.be/2MmokK1Tn28?t=5m50s

[Zidonaro]

It’s weird. Aside from the bugs and graphics, the Alpha is way better than the Beta.

 

They removed the Takara dance, Nobua and some cutscenes.

 

Also they totally remade Gali’s level, with Ga-Koro looking nothing like we have seen in MNOG

Edited May 16, 2018 by Zidonaro

[emily]

Okay, I just spent the last three hours playing through Onua's level up until the boss fight but while I was trying to figure out how to use my glyph at the Kini I decided to enter a previous zone (the one leading to the Kini) and now I get an "unhandled exception" error every time I try to load my game.

 

This is pretty upsetting. Can anyone maybe make my save file work properly?

You aren't gonna be able to recover your save, but if you start up a new game and use the debug menu you can teleport to Onu-Kini and restore the items you've collected so you can resume where you left off. Hit the delete key in-game to bring up the menu, use pgup and pgdn to navigate, and select with the home key. Onu-Kini is called 'shrn' in the warp list.

[CyclonatorZ]

It’s weird. Aside from the bugs and graphics, the Alpha is way better than the Beta.

 

They removed the Takara dance, Nobua and some cutscenes.

 

Also they totally remade Gali’s level, with Ga-Koro looking nothing like we have seen in MNOG

 

That's because Ga-Koro in MNOG was actually based on the alpha design. Saffire even sent Templar Studios the model they were using at the time.

[Illuminatus]

Thanks, Pereki!

 

Do you think you or anyone else can walk me through this backup option as an alternative? I'd like to have an archive of save files with timestamps but I can't tell which files are the right ones and I have absolutely no idea how to use Python.

[emily]

I'm not sure I'd be able to explain how to get that running super easily, but saves are pretty easy to locate. Wherever you installed the game, just open the 'data' folder and they're right in there, as player0.sav, player1.sav etc. player1-4 are all the ones created from front end, player0 is created by playing from the developer menu iirc. You could just copy and paste those files elsewhere to back them up when needed.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

So, should I play the alpha or beta? I’ll probably look at them both at some point, but which one is “better?”

[Planetperson]

So, should I play the alpha or beta? I’ll probably look at them both at some point, but which one is “better?”

 

I haven't had time to play them myself, but from I've heard, it sounds like they are incomparable. The alpha has a lot of interesting content that is not in the beta, and the beta fixes some bugs that are in the alpha (naturally).

[Illuminatus]

Pereki, I actually suspected the player0.sav and player1.sav were the right files, which is why I deleted them but that seemed to accomplish nothing; my corrupt save was still accessible from the front end with a "13% complete" displayed next to Player 1.

 

I deleted the save from the front end and now I got to the point where I was last time but there are no new .sav files in the "data" folder. What's that all about?

 

Also, how do I use Onua's elemental powers to access the boss level?

[Fry]

Also, how do I use Onua's elemental powers to access the boss level?

Left control.

[IvanisIvan]

If It had all the cool stuff from the alpha while being less buggy then it would be worth it, as it stands I am still on the fence but there is no doubt that you have made some wonderful progress!

[Sir Kohran]

Could the alpha and beta ever be combined into one game?

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

Could the alpha and beta ever be combined into one game?

Based on my extremely rudimentary knowledge of programming, it would take a whole lot of work without the source code.

[Pohaturon]

 

Could the alpha and beta ever be combined into one game?

Based on my extremely rudimentary knowledge of programming, it would take a whole lot of work without the source code.

 

Plus there is clashing content. Which version's content would be the way to go? Would it include both? How would that be structured?

 

It doesn't seem viable.

 

:kakama:a

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

 

 

 

Could the alpha and beta ever be combined into one game?

Based on my extremely rudimentary knowledge of programming, it would take a whole lot of work without the source code.

Plus there is clashing content. Which version's content would be the way to go? Would it include both? How would that be structured?

 

It doesn't seem viable.

 

:kakama:a

I guess the beta, since it’s more finalized and closer to what the released game would have had, but people seem the like the alpha’s content more. Edited May 25, 2018 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese

[Sir Kohran]

 

 

Could the alpha and beta ever be combined into one game?

Based on my extremely rudimentary knowledge of programming, it would take a whole lot of work without the source code.

 

Plus there is clashing content. Which version's content would be the way to go? Would it include both? How would that be structured?

 

By deciding, one thing at a time, which version people preferred.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Sir Kohran

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

 

 

 

 

 

Could the alpha and beta ever be combined into one game?

Based on my extremely rudimentary knowledge of programming, it would take a whole lot of work without the source code.

Plus there is clashing content. Which version's content would be the way to go? Would it include both? How would that be structured?

By deciding, one thing at a time, which version people preferred.

There could also be multiple versions, I guess, though it would be more work.

[CyclonatorZ]

Could the alpha and beta ever be combined into one game?

 

The beaverhouse is already hard at work on this. Currently they are mostly in the investigative phase, as they have yet to fully figure out the source code. Of particular interest to the team is attempting to put Nobua (the purple Hau villager at the beginning of the alpha) and the dancing Tohnuga into the beta - both are much loved among the Beaverhouse community,

 

Also, there are intentions to not only combine the content of the two builds, but also to finish the game. Concepts are currently being brainstormed for a final boss, and porting the cut alpha Makuta levels to the beta is a priority.

[Pohaturon]

 

Could the alpha and beta ever be combined into one game?

 

The beaverhouse is already hard at work on this. Currently they are mostly in the investigative phase, as they have yet to fully figure out the source code. Of particular interest to the team is attempting to put Nobua (the purple Hau villager at the beginning of the alpha) and the dancing Tohnuga into the beta - both are much loved among the Beaverhouse community,

 

Also, there are intentions to not only combine the content of the two builds, but also to finish the game. Concepts are currently being brainstormed for a final boss, and porting the cut alpha Makuta levels to the beta is a priority.

 

Good to hear! I was hoping that the beta released wouldn't be considered to be the final phase/end of the road for this project.

 

[Illuminatus]

Was it ever determined if these images were screenshots from the game? The Makuta scene in particular could prove useful when designing a final boss.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

Was it ever determined if these images were screenshots from the game? The Makuta scene in particular could prove useful when designing a final boss.

As I recall from the previous thread, the general consensus was yes, those were from the game. And where else would they be from, anyway? The artwork is computer-generated, but it’s not high-quality enough to be from Ghost, and it resembles the pre-rendered cutscene stills from Tales of the Tohunga (also developed by Saffire).

[RWallace]

Looks more like the weird CGI they used in the card game artwork to me.

Edited May 31, 2018 by RWallace

[Planetperson]

I've always wondered where those images originated from too. I'm just speculating, but I have always thought that they were made by Templar. Templar obviously used 3D models to automatically generate the vector art of some of the pieces and characters in multiple angles. Maybe these images were concept art or test renders, using those 3D models, that were left over from the process of developing MNOG. What particularly tips me off is that the feet of the Matoran lack the loop in the back connecting the two sides, just like in Templar's work. However, that may be the case in Tales of the Tohunga too (I've forgotten at this point). Templar is also the only studio we know of who envisioned the Makuta fight in that particular way. Since that story year animation was made in Flash, maybe Templar was involved in its development, which would explain why those images were used there and never anywhere else.

 

But your theory is as good as mine.

[emily]

 

Was it ever determined if these images were screenshots from the game? The Makuta scene in particular could prove useful when designing a final boss.

As I recall from the previous thread, the general consensus was yes, those were from the game. And where else would they be from, anyway? The artwork is computer-generated, but it’s not high-quality enough to be from Ghost, and it resembles the pre-rendered cutscene stills from Tales of the Tohunga (also developed by Saffire).

 

I'm like 99.99% those images were made by Templar. At this point, aside from that one image there, there is no evidence villager Makuta was on the table for LOMN - quite the contrary, there's a lot of evidence against it.

 

We have the dialogue for the Makuta encounter in LOMN, and while he takes multiple forms (one for each Toa), they almost certainly have to be the Shadow Toa, characters who we have heard from reliable sources were going to be in the game. Templar's whole deal was that the villagers were much more interesting than the big heroes, so it makes sense that they would want to take what was there for LOMN (Makuta = the Toa) and change it to tie into the theming of their game (thus, Makuta = villager). And they could do that without any issue, because they knew at that point that the PC game would never be released - it was their job to tell the story in their own way. 

 

This also accounts for why we don't see a direct Makuta confrontation in the 03 sources (the Style Guide synopsis and Tale of the Toa). By 03 Makuta's nature in the lore had changed such that he couldn't take six forms at once, he was just a regular dude. So the Shadow Toa had to be conceptually severed from him into just more of this creations. In Tale of the Toa, this leaves a conspicuous moment when the Toa inexplicably decide to call it a day after the Shadow Toa fight - it doesn't make too much sense at first brush, but if the story bible ended with that encounter, well, what else was Hapka supposed to do? Meanwhile, in the synopsis, Greg tries to marry the Shadow Toa narrative with the MNOG one, but the latter only gets a passing mention after his full account of the Shadow Toa battle. The MNOG encounter has always been the odd one out.

 

Those images are the only real loose end that could feasibly suggest villager Makuta was a thing outside MNOG, but we know that in 04 Templar was still contracted to do web animation stuff for Bionicle - and the animations those pics come from, while unlike their usual stuff, do use Justin Luchter's music. And we know that Templar had access to the LOMN assets - many of the early characters in MNOG are actually traced from the LOMN models. It seems reasonable they could have deployed those models to mock up some additional scenes they felt they needed, including one showing their version of the Makuta fight.