Possible effects of losing Kanohi?

[Illuminatus]

Right, let me first apologize for so nonchalantly breaking into these forums after yet another considerable hiatus. I just had a thought that overwhelmed me, and I had to share it somewhere. Now, it is said that the Kanohi masks' most common function is their ability to sustain a being's consciousness, correct? And it is also said that the prolonged removal of a Kanohi mask from a being's face can have adverse effects on their well-being. A Matoran would normally lose consciousness, a Toa would become very weak and dizzy, and a Turaga would remain somewhere in between those two states, perhaps alternating from one to the other. I think it's safe to assume that in their comatose state, the Matoran experience what we call "dreams", right?

 

So consider this: What if when a Toa or a Turaga has their Kanohi removed (either willingly or by force), they enter a hazy state of mind, similar to what we call the hypnagogic state? They aren't asleep or completely detached from reality, but they occasionally experience eerie hallucinations (that include visual, audible and tactile sensations) that seem to be a projection of their subconscious mind (if MU beings even have a subconscious)?

 

Perhaps a Toa wouldn't experience such specific effects, but think of a Turaga. Now, a Turaga is generally perceived as a wise, old, and experienced being with a slight air of mystic involvement, right? Now, what if, just what if, some Turaga, somewhere (or perhaps even one of the original Turaga of Mata Nui) was in the habit of deliberately removing their Kanohi, so that they would become more susceptible to certain influences, which would in turn aid them in their urge to gain a "higher" insight, similar to the way a shaman would intentionally enter a drug-induced state?

 

Any thoughts?

[bonesiii]

Just for the record, this is what BS01 says about the weakness thing -- specifically to what you said about Turaga:

 

When a mask-wearer has their Kanohi removed they suffer weakness - Toa and other beings feel weak and dizzy, Turaga suffer extreme weakness, and Matoran lapse into a coma-like state if the mask is not replaced within an extended period of time.

 

So the Turaga don't ever seem to enter comas but feel very weak.

 

Anywho...

 

I think it's safe to assume that in their comatose state, the Matoran experience what we call "dreams", right?

I wouldn't assume it, but it seems most likely to me. Humans can, in real comas. (Allegedly. )

 

Yes, what you said is possible. I thought where you were going with it is that it might be a way to hypnotize a Turaga and then get them to do nutty things like the one that sent everybody in Lesovikk's village to Karzahni for no reason. And possibly so. Or the shaman route might work too.

 

Of course, if you want to do this for a fanfic, canon doesn't really matter. But I would say that yes, it is canonically plausible IMVHO.

[Illuminatus]

Aw, doesn't that mean I should get a Key to Nongu Award? LOL, or is it too short of "theory" to merit the recognition?

[bonesiii]

It's more of a what if than the kinds of "answering mysteries" things I usually give that for. No offense -- it's good thinking, but yeah, a bit simple for that. There's isn't much actual evidence for it other than that it seems plausible.

 

Also, it didn't occur to me at all so yeah. Sorry if the horse is dead already... XD

[Illuminatus]

LOL, that's fine, thanks for stopping by.

 

And I'd hate to go off-topic, but wait till you hear about my "Bionicule" concept.

[fishers64]

I suppose diminished mental capacity and "extreme weakness" might cause the mental errors you have described in your theory. However, I think a Turaga would have to be really crazy to think that he could actually derive wisdom from such mental errors.

 

Possible, but not likely.

Edited May 31, 2013 by fishers64

[Kopekemaster]

I mostly thought that they just blacked out. Could be wrong though. Actually, now that I think about it, I realize it's actually a coma they go into.

Another related question, how far off does the mask have to be to actually "off"? Because in MoL, when Takua and Jaller fall of of the Guuko, Takua's mask was rather crooked and to the side. But would he have survived if it stayed like that?

[The Legendary TNT]

I mostly thought that they just blacked out. Could be wrong though. Actually, now that I think about it, I realize it's actually a coma they go into.

Another related question, how far off does the mask have to be to actually "off"? Because in MoL, when Takua and Jaller fall of of the Guuko, Takua's mask was rather crooked and to the side. But would he have survived if it stayed like that?

I think he would have been fine, but it would have been annoying (and possibly culturally improper) to walk around with his mask twisted. If it's twisted, you can't see out of it.

[Katuko]

In one of the online animations Tamaru takes his own mask off and shakes his head at some Bohrok to taunt them. No word on whether he felt a rush of weakness in those few seconds, but it seems that such a gesture can be seen as rude in Matoran society.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Katuko

[Makuta of Time]

I always thought that when Toa lose their Kanohi, their color turns to the Protodermis color of their armor?

[Chro]

I always thought that when Toa lose their Kanohi, their color turns to the Protodermis color of their armor?

Wait, what? What are you talking about?

[bonesiii]

 

I always thought that when Toa lose their Kanohi, their color turns to the Protodermis color of their armor?

Wait, what? What are you talking about?

I assume by the second "their" he means "masks" (Kanohi plural), turning gray. If a Toa takes off a mask, the mask turns gray. (But this is the opposite of turning to the color of the armor.)

 

Not sure why you brought it up, though, Flaredrick, so maybe you could elaborate if I'm missing something. Anywho, hope this helps.

Edited June 3, 2013 by bonesiii

[Makuta of Time]

thanks bones.the thought came up when i remebered somewhere, a toa lost his color. though i maybe thinking of something else.

[Katuko]

The Nuva had gray coloring on their masks while their elemental powers were stolen. Mutran also describes a mask that isn't being worn as having the color of "a lump of clay"; with the exception of powerful masks that makes the color themselves.

 

Matoran masks are painted, so they would never lose color just by being taken off.

[Chro]

thanks bones.the thought came up when i remebered somewhere, a toa lost his color. though i maybe thinking of something else.

Perhaps you were thinking of the video where Tahu dons his Hau and goes from grey to red? I don't think that was canon.

[Makuta of Time]

Yeah that's probably what it was.

[bonesiii]

Either that or the online animation of Tahu losing the color in his Nuva mask when the Kal stole his symbol (which is canon). The colors come from their elemental power, kinda like electricity being connected to a light bulb. Normal taking off of a mask is like disconnecting a bulb. When the Kal stole their powers, it was like flipping the light switch off with the bulb still connected.

 

And Chro is correct; that video of the Toa's armor itself turning colored is non-canon (at least not that detail ).

[Illuminatus]

What, wait, that wasn't canon? Aw, man, there's a major disappointment. I've always found that gray-to-color transition in Tahu to be symbollic.

[bonesiii]

What, wait, that wasn't canon? Aw, man, there's a major disappointment. I've always found that gray-to-color transition in Tahu to be symbollic.

Well, you're free to headcanon it. Basically there were just too many other portayals that had the Toa's armor colored, times they lost their masks (Krana'ed Lewa comes to mind), etc. and there was no armor change. Chalk it up to an early idea that was probably deemed not economical to portray or too hard to remember or the like.

[Katuko]

We could maybe attribute it to the Toa Mata being in pieces when they arrived, as opposed to infected/Krana'd Toa, who are still whole and in has their element available. Then again, I believe I've seen another promo vid where a different Toa put himself together without having lost his color.

[The Legendary TNT]

We could maybe attribute it to the Toa Mata being in pieces when they arrived, as opposed to infected/Krana'd Toa, who are still whole and in has their element available. Then again, I believe I've seen another promo vid where a different Toa put himself together without having lost his color.

Onua for TLOMN.

[Illuminatus]

Well, yes, it could easily be attributed to the Toa's having been asleep and inactive for over a millennium. Perhaps a Toa (or any other being) generally doesn't lose color when their mask is removed, but the Toa Mata were the only Toa that had been literally disassembled (speaking of which, how does that even happen with them still retaining their consciousness?). Perhaps it was the sheer time period spent inside the canisters that gradually bereft the Toa Mata of their color, and when each of them reassembled themselves, the donning of the masks is what jump-started their entire bodies, so to speak. Kind of like a surge of energy to finish the assembly process.

 

It's a plausible concept, is it not?