Where did Bionicle Go Wrong?

[dviddy]

And keep in mind the "new factor" problem (Bionicle was ten years old!); that is the largest role in why it ended. Even had its story made no mistakes, this would still eventually be a problem for such a toyline. As they said, they couldn't get the kind of advertising for new years of an old line that they could with brand new lines, and that made it difficult to draw in new fans regardless of the story those fans would meet. That is the main reason sales declined and the line ended. The other mistakes were undoubtedly factors, and I understand the desire to think that if those had all been done right it could have gone on perpetually like LEGO City, but it's probably unrealistic. Especially since those things could have all simply been fixed rather than ending the line. But the "new factor" problem could only be fixed by taking a break of several years.

Unfortunately, I have met with LEGO employees, talked with LEGO employees, and heard from LEGO employees' mouths that the story accessibility was one of the largest deterrents to consumers, and the single largest complaint about the line, and why potential consumers didn't become actual consumers. Would the line have gone on perpetually had a lighter, more appropriate story-telling method (or better story-teller) been used? Most likely not. But to write all of the complaints off as "no no no, the line just lacked a NEWNESS factor to it!" is re-framing an argument specifically so your personal preference "wins".

 

I mean, look around, even here on BZP we have members complaining that the story was too dense or too confusing to truly digest, and the story-telling methods changed drastically when TLG debuted Ninjago and Chima. Clearly there was a problem with the story-telling methodology BIONICLE used, and considering, again, that LEGO employees have outright stated such, and that this led directly to the line's cancellation...

 

I'm not interested in your paragraph about why people in the S&T forum all agree with your preferences. I long ago grew tired of the way discussions in S&T abused terms and wholesale misused entire actual schools of intellectual thought in order to win arguments to prove that whatever new decision had been made was best, because obviously. I know many members with strong opinions and views on the storyline, the writing, the visual and design aesthetics, etc, who avoided and avoid that section of the forums like the plague for those reasons, so I put little to no stock in your "everyone I've talked to thinks the red star being a deus ex machina character-bringing-backer is great!" I talked to a handful of members just today who all think it's a terrible decision and ruins all of the dramatic underpinning of the entire series. So look, we can both say "but everyone I agree with also agrees with me!!!"

 

Like I said, the ability to bring back any character, when the line was over-saddled with unimportant side characters running around, running into each other, exploring and detailing every single piece of useless information is specifically something I am claiming as problematic, and doing so specifically because TLG employees have cited the bloated story as a reason the line was canceled.

 

(That and Vezon)

 

This ("only") forgets that things were seriously wrong there. It's basically an "absolutely no revivals in story" preference, which is fine so far as it goes, but clearly is not a good match to Bionicle which has been featuring revivals since 2003. Understandable that it would happen, though, since revivals weren't a clear part of 2001 plot. Really, if revivals make sense in the world you've created, they should happen, especially if they come with fascinating downsides like being trapped in the revival hospital and chased by zombies and dissected by the hospital workers!

I don't have a "absolutely no revivals in story" preference. I have a "don't abuse the suspension of disbelief and create a deus ex machina that lets you underscore every dramatic moment in the series and also reintroduces countless pointless characters in a story already full of clutter and bloat" preference. I like to call it a "good story" preference. Somehow bringing Takanuva back to life? Interesting. Using Makuta's essence to bring Jaller back to life? Better. Having a spaceship up above full of almost every fan-favourite side character ever? Lazy writing. BIONICLE was a series that had too many characters of interest, and didn't have the media support to properly utilize all of them. Things like that are what fan fiction is for- not what the official series is for. It muddied the waters and created confusion in fans. Again, as evidenced by TLG themselves cancelling it and citing the bloated story as one of the primary reasons!

[bonesiii]

Unfortunately, I have met with LEGO employees, talked with LEGO employees, and heard from LEGO employees' mouths that the story accessibility was one of the largest deterrents to consumers, and the single largest complaint about the line, and why potential consumers didn't become actual consumers. Would the line have gone on perpetually had a lighter, more appropriate story-telling method (or better story-teller) been used? Most likely not. But to write all of the complaints off as "no no no, the line just lacked a NEWNESS factor to it!" is re-framing an argument specifically so your personal preference "wins".

Again, the problem with that is that the story could just be adjusted in future years. Doesn't hurt to solve both problems in one move, of course, but the main reason Bionicle had to end was set sales, not story. Had the sets still been selling and able to be advertised like a new line to bring in new kids, they would have adapted like they had for a long time. So the core problem was that the average parent walking down the toy aisle wasn't going "Oh, Bionicle! Must buy!" as much. Apparently Hero Factory solved that, despite still having a lot of story issues itself. (Many in the opposite way of Bionicle's problems, heh.)

 

You lost me in the rest of your post. O_o Do people make mistakes in S&T posts? Yeah... not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand, though, or how it changes the averages we hear. And we have a lot of people who focus on good logic in there... it helps being a logician myself of course. It sounds like you might be confusing attempts to reconcile possible contradictions and the like with 'defenses'. And I'm talking about the averages I've seen BZP-wide and so forth, not just S&T. But story is usually discussed in the story forum, hence my bringing it up. And I've been watching it closely for a long time, so I'm pretty sure I have a good handle on that.

 

Also "matching my tastes" is not what I meant at all, nor do the averages I see always do that at all. I do share a lot of the common tastes that have led to complaints like the one I mentioned in my first post here, though.

 

Edit:

 

I have a "don't abuse the suspension of disbelief and create a deus ex machina that lets you underscore every dramatic moment in the series and also reintroduces countless pointless characters in a story already full of clutter and bloat" preference. I like to call it a "good story" preference. Somehow bringing Takanuva back to life? Interesting.

Well, a lot of people had problems with that one, actually, largely due to MoL's handling of it. But keep in mind the power of perspective. You want to avoid twisting thought processes in favor of taste -- that's good, but the first place to check for that is always ourselves. What I mean is, to a person with a taste, a story that appeals to that taste will be quality. To somebody that has a different taste, it will seem like less quality. That's why quality can be subjective in cases like that.

 

It's hard to tell if the RS would have been judged that way by Bionicle fans in the normal way, due to the unfortunate way the secret came out. Had it been shown, not told, maybe it would have worked. Thankfully we did get a lot of the leadup shown, though. Alllmost to the point of reveal. That might be part of why a lot of people have still liked it, despite that mistake.

 

Using Makuta's essence to bring Jaller back to life? Better.

Agreed!

 

Having a spaceship up above full of almost every fan-favourite side character ever? Lazy writing.

See, the problem is that the dislike of that comes out of a taste. Laziness implies harder work could solve it. But as worded here, you're apparently saying the idea itself is lazy. So, what logical basis is that on, that isn't a preference?

 

If it just brought people back willynilly and no downsides, etc., like I said before, I'd agree, but the Red Star isn't like that.

Edited August 21, 2014 by bonesiii

[Matoro Zeliph]

 

This ("only") forgets that things were seriously wrong there. It's basically an "absolutely no revivals in story" preference, which is fine so far as it goes, but clearly is not a good match to Bionicle which has been featuring revivals since 2003. Understandable that it would happen, though, since revivals weren't a clear part of 2001 plot. Really, if revivals make sense in the world you've created, they should happen, especially if they come with fascinating downsides like being trapped in the revival hospital and chased by zombies and dissected by the hospital workers!

I don't have a "absolutely no revivals in story" preference. I have a "don't abuse the suspension of disbelief and create a deus ex machina that lets you underscore every dramatic moment in the series and also reintroduces countless pointless characters in a story already full of clutter and bloat" preference. I like to call it a "good story" preference. Somehow bringing Takanuva back to life? Interesting. Using Makuta's essence to bring Jaller back to life? Better. Having a spaceship up above full of almost every fan-favourite side character ever? Lazy writing. BIONICLE was a series that had too many characters of interest, and didn't have the media support to properly utilize all of them. Things like that are what fan fiction is for- not what the official series is for. It muddied the waters and created confusion in fans. Again, as evidenced by TLG themselves cancelling it and citing the bloated story as one of the primary reasons!

 

Yeah, stuff like that kind of boggles my mind when the story presents itself with outrageous unexplainable events. I tried over-looking them, or have tried to come up with my "own reasoning" why these certain unexplainable events happen. While the story was fine, what I loved most about Bionicle though (especially 2001-2005) was the character development and setting. 

Character Development:

2001-2003: Meaning you get to see the Toa Mata building trust from one another, and working as a team eventually. Using Unity!

2004-2005: It was interesting to see how "young" and "inexperience" the Toa Metru started off in the beginning, but then started to "come of age," especially with the events of the Hordika beast experiences the team had been through.

 

Setting: 

2001-2005: I don't know if it was the form of really great media, promo cds, or novels. But it felt like I was actually visiting the island of Mata Nui and Metru Nui, feeling welcomed with their awesome culture compared to later years. 

 

-

 

For some reason, I used to view the story as a 'side thing.' You know, something to be taken lightly. Because back then, I (and maybe others) had viewed Bionicle 2001-2003 as a regular ol' LEGO Theme. Such if it was Alpha Team, Johnny Thunder, and Life on Mars. It had a story, but it was only there as a foundation for you to use, so you can build upon your own adventures. 

 

I guessed when 2004 came around, LEGO wasn't messing around. This seem to be if it was going to be a full-fledged theme for only the hardcore fans to understand for the coming later years. In my opinion I think it went out of hand in 2006, and as for the sets; the traditional Bionicle 'technic' elements had started to dissolve away at that point. What happened to the gear functioned sets?! Maybe that is why around the time, I was just holding onto strings at this point in following the Bionicle storyline in 2006-2007, and just simply let go in 2008+. It lost its traditional ways it used to have like what the other classic themes had.

 

Idk, it is kind of difficult to explain.

 

I honestly wouldn't mind if the Bionicle 2015's reboot story was just as simple as Hero Factory or Chima for example. As long as it engages me, provides me a unique universe and culture to explore in. Just enough room for adding my own adventures in there, I'm good! 

Edited August 21, 2014 by Matoro1992

[bonesiii]

I think it went out of hand in 2006, and as for the sets; the traditional Bionicle 'technic' elements had started to dissolve away at that point. What happened to the gear functioned sets?!

LEGO's focus groups had consistently singled that out as the main thing target-age kids tended not to like about the old sets.

 

(That said, I tend to agree with that preference personally. I pushed for them to put some gears back in -- wouldn't have to be all six, yeah? Alas, no listeney. )

[dviddy]

 

Unfortunately, I have met with LEGO employees, talked with LEGO employees, and heard from LEGO employees' mouths that the story accessibility was one of the largest deterrents to consumers, and the single largest complaint about the line, and why potential consumers didn't become actual consumers. Would the line have gone on perpetually had a lighter, more appropriate story-telling method (or better story-teller) been used? Most likely not. But to write all of the complaints off as "no no no, the line just lacked a NEWNESS factor to it!" is re-framing an argument specifically so your personal preference "wins".

Again, the problem with that is that the story could just be adjusted in future years. Doesn't hurt to solve both problems in one move, of course, but the main reason Bionicle had to end was set sales, not story. Had the sets still been selling and able to be advertised like a new line to bring in new kids, they would have adapted like they had for a long time. So the core problem was that the average parent walking down the toy aisle wasn't going "Oh, Bionicle! Must buy!" as much. Apparently Hero Factory solved that, despite still having a lot of story issues itself. (Many in the opposite way of Bionicle's problems, heh.)

 

You lost me in the rest of your post. O_o Do people make mistakes in S&T posts? Yeah... not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand, though, or how it changes the averages we hear. And we have a lot of people who focus on good logic in there... it helps being a logician myself of course. It sounds like you might be confusing attempts to reconcile possible contradictions and the like with 'defenses'. And I'm talking about the averages I've seen BZP-wide and so forth, not just S&T. But story is usually discussed in the story forum, hence my bringing it up. And I've been watching it closely for a long time, so I'm pretty sure I have a good handle on that.

 

Also "matching my tastes" is not what I meant at all, nor do the averages I see always do that at all. I do share a lot of the common tastes that have led to complaints like the one I mentioned in my first post here, though.

 

Edit:

 

I have a "don't abuse the suspension of disbelief and create a deus ex machina that lets you underscore every dramatic moment in the series and also reintroduces countless pointless characters in a story already full of clutter and bloat" preference. I like to call it a "good story" preference. Somehow bringing Takanuva back to life? Interesting.

Well, a lot of people had problems with that one, actually, largely due to MoL's handling of it. But keep in mind the power of perspective. You want to avoid twisting thought processes in favor of taste -- that's good, but the first place to check for that is always ourselves. What I mean is, to a person with a taste, a story that appeals to that taste will be quality. To somebody that has a different taste, it will seem like less quality. That's why quality can be subjective in cases like that.

It's hard to tell if the RS would have been judged that way by Bionicle fans in the normal way, due to the unfortunate way the secret came out. Had it been shown, not told, maybe it would have worked. Thankfully we did get a lot of the leadup shown, though. Alllmost to the point of reveal. That might be part of why a lot of people have still liked it, despite that mistake.

 

You're the first person, including here on the forums, that I have ever seen say they outright like the Red Star reveal. It's just not good story-telling.

 

While who enjoys what can be subjective, there are objective rules to story-telling and writing. Quality is not the same thing as enjoyability. I enjoyed the BIONICLE saga from beginning to end- but that doesn't mean I'm immune to understanding where the story dropped in quality.

 

Of course the problem was that the sets weren't selling as well. Why? Because the main advertising for the line (let's not pretend here, the story existed the same as Transformers cartoons do- to promote the toys first and foremost), the story, was no longer bringing fans in. TLG attempted to fix that with the soft-reboot in 2009, but when the first half of that year didn't yield results, it was instead decided to cancel the line altogether, hence the sudden tying in of everything in Glatorian Wave 2. Attempts to change the story did happen, and were not as adaptive as you make it sound here. You couldn't just change the line's story-perception in one year, that still ties the new year to all of the previous years of bloat and over-abundance of side nonsense.

 

(This is, of course, why a new line will be a reboot, of that I have no doubt.)

 

So, let's walk through this, shall we? The sets weren't selling because the primary advertising method (the story) was turning people off. When your advertising fails (the story) your product sees losses. Potential fans didn't purchase sets because they felt the media surrounding the line was too confusing and difficult. This isn't just a "newness" factor. It's an advertising problem. It's a story problem. Parents and kids no longer desired the product because they felt it was too much to understand in order to get into it. 2009 attempted to resolve that difficulty, but just made it worse.

 

Like, this is the problem I was talking about with S&T discussions. I am telling you the reason the line faltered, according to those who own and ran the line. And you are telling me it has nothing to do with that, because of reasons that seem to come down to "because I liked those things that were problems and can't believe they were problems." Also, what are the credentials by which you claim to be a logician? I've seen you say that for years (maybe even a decade now), but never seen any claims or proof of the validity thereof. I honestly think this claim you make in discussions is a significant part of the problem with these discussions.

[fishers64]

Unfortunately, I have met with LEGO employees, talked with LEGO employees, and heard from LEGO employees' mouths that the story accessibility was one of the largest deterrents to consumers, and the single largest complaint about the line, and why potential consumers didn't become actual consumers. Would the line have gone on perpetually had a lighter, more appropriate story-telling method (or better story-teller) been used? Most likely not. But to write all of the complaints off as "no no no, the line just lacked a NEWNESS factor to it!" is re-framing an argument specifically so your personal preference "wins".

 

Something to mention is where the "lack of new factor" statement comes from: 

 

I have not heard about any pre-set endpoint for Hero Factory. Like BIONICLE, if it sells well, it will continue -- if it doesn't, it won't.

 

Bfahome -- But you also have to consider the fact that a LOT of BIONICLE fans who were buying sets were not following the story at all. 

So while the complexity of the BIONICLE storyline was a barrier to people who wanted to get into it late, that was most likely a minority of the people who were into the line. 

 

I think what hurt BIONICLE most was the lack of "novel novelty" -- basically, it wasn't new anymore.

 

For a lot of kids, it was that toy their older brother had been into, so their interest in it was limited. 

Older fans weren't old enough to have the money to become nostalgic collectors, like GI Joe and Transformers fans are. 

It wasn't getting the buzz it got in 2001-2003, because it wasn't a new line anymore 

... whereas HF immediately got a ToyFare Magazine cover because it was something new.

 

And the plan to continue the story through 2011 actually has nothing to do with tying up loose ends. 

We could easily have just ended the story with Journey's End, without doing any Spherus Magna adventures.

Greg qualifies as a Lego employee as well. (But then again, a lot of people on BZP dislike Greg now, so I don't hammer the point), but clarifying...

 

On this subject, I mostly just . It being there doesn't change my world very much. I don't find it a very good source of fanfic inspiration or discussion points, but I have no problem with it being there. If a lot of people don't like it, I might decide to take a fanfic moment or something to blow it up for fun (because I enjoy doing such things) but if it's just out there...so what? It doesn't destroy the universe - an SM story could just go on below without touching it with a ten-foot Takea fin. 

 

Now I do agree that it was poor writing, because it breaks the number three rule of storytelling - don't tell your audience the big secret until you've written it out (and reading those reveals before it was properly written out made me feel sick for a second). But that was true of the reveal of the GB as Velika too, and I haven't heard near as many complaints about that as the Red Star.

Edited August 21, 2014 by fishers64

[J46 Nui]

As a fan of the entire story, I wouldn't say Bionicle ever went wrong, but it did make mistakes, and it hit its peak well before it ended.

 

I'd say Bionicle's peak was from '04 to '06. Its story was more present than ever with 5 books a year plus comics that were actually full length. It also broke out of the bad habit that '01 to '03 had of repeating the same basic story over and over again. It was actually taking risks with its storytelling and exploring new places and concepts. Plus, pretty much all the story content released those years focused on the main story. Even though there was an occasional side story, they were small and unobtrusive.

 

The reason why I feel the following years were in a bit of decline is that they started producing less of the main story. The comics were getting significantly shorter and there were less books released year after year. Plus, with the rise of BionicleStory.com, the side stories gained a lot more prominence and even overshadowed the main story eventually with the amount of content being released. I feel that it was a mistake to make the side stories, which are not friendly to people trying to get into Bionicle, the easiest piece of story media to access.

 

Even though I do enjoy the later years, I feel like I would have enjoyed them a lot more if they had released the same amount of story content that they did in earlier years. I know that Lego had good reasons to stop producing as much books and comics later on, but it doesn't mean I liked it.

 

With that said, Lego could have made Bionicle more accessible in those later years with one simple change: switch the content of the books with the content of the story serials. Having the easier to follow main story available for free on the web would certainly have made it more accessible. Plus, having the unimportant side stories in books and having the main story delivered in easily accessible media is basically what Lego does now with its story focused themes.

[toa kopaka4372]

 

 

Having a spaceship up above full of almost every fan-favourite side character ever? Lazy writing. 

The problem with this statement is that it is blatantly untrue. I'm not too fond of the Red Star reveal, but I've warmed up to it somewhat, largely due to the limitations that Greg has placed on it since the initial revelation. It's not full of almost every fan-favorite side character ever, and that's because Greg has introduced numerous limits on what the Red Star can do and has confirmed the permanent deaths of the majority of the characters in BIONICLE. In short, the deaths that matter are still unaffected, and even random, minor ones, like Kodan's, are still unaffected as well.

 

The Red Star can't revive Rahi.

It can't revive Antidermis.

It can't revive without a body intact.

It can't revive without a head intact.

It can't revive anyone outside of the Matoran Universe.

Many people revived on it have been killed since then, by the people who manage it.

It is obsolete in current story, as the Matoran Universe has been destroyed. No one is getting revived by it again.

 

So in short, the RS was not made as a cheap way of bringing back whoever Greg wanted. He's stated he wanted to write a zombie story. Combine that with the build up we had to the reveal in the serials, and it becomes abundantly clear that Greg was setting up the RS as a problem, not a solution. The people on it were not in good condition and were actually insane madmen. The place is run by cold-blooded killers who are not even fully sapient. It sounds like a hellish place, not a nice paradise with fan favorites back.  It also holds a ton of storyline potential, and if done properly, could have been amazing. The thing is, we never got to see the execution in story. We only got the function of the Star in an answer, not as an actual plot. It's why I have refrained from judging it too harshly, especially based on where Greg was going with it.

 

Greg could have revived Nikila (and I know a lot of people wanted her back), Sidorak, Kodan, Naho, the rest of the Toa Mangai, Lesovikk's team, etc, and yet in recent weeks he's confirmed them all to be permanently dead, using the rules he set for the Star. And the people confirmed revived are in unknown condition. Mavrah is the only one we know, while Botar is basically confirmed to have been mentally destroyed by the experience. The rest could all be deranged monsters for all we know. 

 

More so, your earlier claim that it ruins all the "dramatic underpinnings" of the story is invalid. Matoro's sacrifice is still the same, right? The death of all the Makuta in Karda Nui? A 1000 year war starting over two Dark Hunter operatives that are actually still dead? Again, most of the story is unaffected. The main story years of 2001-2003, 2006-2007, and 2009-2010 are unaffected by the RS either way. Had any characters died that year outside of the ones who did, they would have remained dead. And when you re-read the plot of those years, you do with that knowledge? All the tension that came from all those dangerous situations, all the close calls...they all still stand, because those years took place outside of the Matoran Universe.

Edited August 21, 2014 by toa kopaka4372

[bonesiii]

You're the first person, including here on the forums, that I have ever seen say they outright like the Red Star reveal.

Alright, that's cool. Like I've said, though, I've seen a lot of people showing a lot of interest in it. To be fair, I haven't seen a scientific poll on it yet. But S&T's been filled with people talking about it, a lot of it not negative. And I've seen people saying they like it. Without a poll, hard to know percentages, though. Maybe I should go make one lol. Anyways, didn't you mention somewhere earlier you haven't followed these kinds of discussions lately? That might explain your not seeing other people liking it.

 

Also, what do you mean by "reveal"? I don't like how it was revealed. I like the idea of it and the sensible restrictions, and some of the potential of it.

 

 

Like, this is the problem I was talking about with S&T discussions. I am telling you the reason the line faltered, according to those who own and ran the line. And you are telling me it has nothing to do with that

?? I hesitate to say this with you, but you might want to calm down and try to read more carefully. Nobody said that. That's a strawman argument, not sure where you're getting it-- maybe I worded things too clumsily? I just pointed out another big problem your earlier post didn't mention, which has a lot to do with why they ended the line, to give it time to build up "newness" for a return. This was brought out early in discussions when HF first started as a big part of the reason they ended Bionicle, and why HF wasn't "anti-Bionicle" and such. It isn't my idea -- it came from LEGO.

 

A lot of the rest of your post is along these lines. You seem to think you're disagreeing about that, but aren't you just saying the same thing in a different way? I think most of us agree it needed some time off, although we wish how they handled its (hopefully temporary) end was better.

 

As for whether it will be a reboot -- I always advise people not to be sure of their theories. That usually applies more to storyline theories, but it goes here too. (And it depends on what you mean by it. By the term Greg once used, I agree -- a time-jump forward could be considered a "reboot". But if by that you mean re-doing 2001 story or the like, having the giant robot again be the story driver, I doubt it. But even I wouldn't ever say I'm sure that won't happen, yanno? Life has a way of surprising us.)

 

Having a spaceship up above full of almost every fan-favourite side character ever? Lazy writing. 

The problem with this statement is that it is blatantly untrue.

I wouldn't go that far, actually. Although to be fair, part of the problem I have with later story is Greg may have actually overworked himself -- all the constant running updates, and plot threads hopping from one story to another. But that actually can result from a kind of laziness, and I'm not sure it's self-evident that the widespread character revival system isn't laziness itself. I can see that argument.

 

The reason I tend to lean more against that is, like I said, Greg actually has done a lot of good thought on it. (Though mostly after the writing, so it isn't non-lazy writing... )

 

So, I think it's mostly untrue, but I wouldn't say blatantly. I think DV's taste on this is to be expected really.

 

 

Also, your statement about deaths that matter not being touched is not quite so -- Lhikan has been confirmed revived.

 

 

Edit:

 

I feel that it was a mistake to make the side stories, which are not friendly to people trying to get into Bionicle, the easiest piece of story media to access.

Major agreementitude!

 

Oh, and this from DV's latest:

 

because of reasons that seem to come down to "because I liked those things that were problems and can't believe they were problems."

I have no idea where this is coming from. I never do anything like that. I'm often the first person reciting well-recognized problems, even when I like them myself. The Takanuva revival thing for example; personally it worked for me, but a lot of people didn't like it. In the old days I ran an actual archive of complaint topics, many of them complaints I disagreed with. (Admittedly, part of that was to also avoid having to repeat answers a lot, but I made it clear the value of showing them freely helps with constructive criticism goals, etc.)

 

Actually, it almost sounds like this might describe some of your post. You seem to think that the lack of a new factor wasn't a role or a major role? I'm actually unclear what your point is on that, really. Maybe you could clarify. The reason they gave, that it's hard to get advertising positions, like in toy magazines, and the like, for an old line versus a new one, seems to make sense to me. I'm not sure why we should doubt it. Maybe you're just trying to emphasize that it isn't the only factor, I dunno. As for how much a factor, measuring that objectively seems difficult. All I can say is LEGO thought at the time it was a big enough factor worth mentioning to fans.

 

But if you're saying you can't believe that was a major problem, what reason would you have for that if not it coming out of your own tastes? Are you sure this isn't part of what's going into your choice of approach here?

Edited August 21, 2014 by bonesiii

[believe victims]

As for whether it will be a reboot -- I always advise people not to be sure of their theories. That usually applies more to storyline theories, but it goes here too. (And it depends on what you mean by it. By the term Greg once used, I agree -- a time-jump forward could be considered a "reboot". But if by that you mean re-doing 2001 story or the like, having the giant robot again be the story driver, I doubt it. But even I wouldn't ever say I'm sure that won't happen, yanno? Life has a way of surprising us.)

 

It's odd that everyone assumes a reboot means going along the same story as before like the line's a squirrel duct taped to a conveyor belt, when really that squirrel is free to jump to whatever conveyor belt it wants because the squirrel has already been down that conveyor belt and watching it drag on down it again would be a really stupid decision, so instead it should be on a different conveyor belt that isn't spoiled by a single google search.

[Ballom Nom Nom]

 

As for whether it will be a reboot -- I always advise people not to be sure of their theories. That usually applies more to storyline theories, but it goes here too. (And it depends on what you mean by it. By the term Greg once used, I agree -- a time-jump forward could be considered a "reboot". But if by that you mean re-doing 2001 story or the like, having the giant robot again be the story driver, I doubt it. But even I wouldn't ever say I'm sure that won't happen, yanno? Life has a way of surprising us.)

 

It's odd that everyone assumes a reboot means going along the same story as before like the line's a squirrel duct taped to a conveyor belt, when really that squirrel is free to jump to whatever conveyor belt it wants because the squirrel has already been down that conveyor belt and watching it drag on down it again would be a really stupid decision, so instead it should be on a different conveyor belt that isn't spoiled by a single google search.

 

It's at this point that the analogy is breaking down somewhat.

 

~B~

[bonesiii]

Yeah -- that's why I ask what he means by it.

[Toatapio Nuva]

 

When alternate universes were introduced.

So 2002?

 

There were no alternate universes in 2002. The danger of the Vahi was based on disrupting the fabric of time within the main universe. It did not involve any alternate realities.

[believe victims]

Yeah -- that's why I ask what he means by it.

*she

 

what I mean by it is that you assume that, if Bionicle does a hard reboot, it's stuck with the giant robot secret for the main story engine. like the squirrel that is not duct taped, a hard reboot could do something completely different. We've already heard the story where the Toa fight Makuta to awaken the Great Spirit Robot. Let's try something new. Let's give Makuta a rest; he's had more than enough time hogging the limelight while rubbing his hands together and cackling evilly saying "all according to plan".

 

It could be that they still use the Great Spirit Robot, but using it as the main story engine is probably not going to fly because we already have that story, as bloated and convoluted as it was. You can only tell a story like that once. Now, let's do something completely different.

[bonesiii]

I did make that poll. Results so far are strongly against even just the idea of the RS revival system. (There's ONE other vote besides me on the yes, though. So... there's that LOL.)

 

http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/14283-do-you-like-the-red-star-revival-aspect/

 

Okay, actually there's three more since I last checked, plus even one strong yes. Still losing by far though. But evidently I'm not the only one who likes the idea.

 

 

you assume that, if Bionicle does a hard reboot, it's stuck with the giant robot secret for the main story engine

No. This has been discussed before, I just didn't feel like rehashing the whole thing (and it's tangential to this topic; we have other topics about it). However, the reasoning against building an alternate explanation for the very idea that inspired Bionicle seems strong, as explained in past topics. (Though here again, depends on what you mean by "hard reboot".) I forget exactly what topic that was in... maybe my poll about type of return people want. I did post a brief summary of it in the previous poll about return vs. continuation. If it wasn't so central to what 2001 was, I'd agree with this, but I think Bionicle is not a good candidate for that kind of thing. And there are other ways to do a reboot.

 

(Part of me hopes it happens against all hope... but that's probably just 2001er nostalgia talking... and I also fear it might get turned into Hero Factory 2001... aaaanyways... better discussed in other topics though lol.)

 

And, in case you're unclear, I was referring to asking DV in a previous post. I'm curious what you mean by it too, though. Does sound like you agree with me, but do you mean by "hard reboot" to go back to the 2001 setup? Or by "completely" new, you mean something maybe like what 2009 could have been if the Mata Nui conflict hadn't been unresolved, etc.? Like, aliens, etc.? That's actually kind of what I'm hoping for; some completely unpredictable plot in Spherus Magna distant future (I do hope for some old characters though). Aaaanywho.....

 

 

Edit: Toatapio, that was probably an allusion to a recent post where somebody said they noticed a mention of alternate universes in one of the 2002 comics. It was the "this is not an alternate universe, this really is Tahu leading an army of Bohrok against a Kal" thing. (Not literally a featuring of them, hence tk's emote.)

Edited August 21, 2014 by bonesiii

[Makaru]

 

Yeah -- that's why I ask what she means by it.

 

what I mean by it is that you assume that, if Bionicle does a hard reboot, it's stuck with the giant robot secret for the main story engine. like the squirrel that is not duct taped, a hard reboot could do something completely different. We've already heard the story where the Toa fight Makuta to awaken the Great Spirit Robot. Let's try something new. Let's give Makuta a rest; he's had more than enough time hogging the limelight while rubbing his hands together and cackling evilly saying "all according to plan".

 

It could be that they still use the Great Spirit Robot, but using it as the main story engine is probably not going to fly because we already have that story, as bloated and convoluted as it was. You can only tell a story like that once. Now, let's do something completely different.

 

I've never really fully considered the whole "Island is mata Nui" a central plot theme anyway, even though that was planned from the get-go.

 

To me, the core story elements have always been thusly:

• Tropical paradise
• Robotic beings clearly out of their comfort zone
• Elemental Heroes
• A number system of base-six.

I see no reason not to build off those aspects and go somewhere entirely different, picking pieces out of the old storyline as it becomes necessary or to give older fans their nostalgic kick.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Makaru
thanks Anchor

[Aanchir]

 

 

Yeah -- that's why I ask what she means by it.

 

what I mean by it is that you assume that, if Bionicle does a hard reboot, it's stuck with the giant robot secret for the main story engine. like the squirrel that is not duct taped, a hard reboot could do something completely different. We've already heard the story where the Toa fight Makuta to awaken the Great Spirit Robot. Let's try something new. Let's give Makuta a rest; he's had more than enough time hogging the limelight while rubbing his hands together and cackling evilly saying "all according to plan".

 

It could be that they still use the Great Spirit Robot, but using it as the main story engine is probably not going to fly because we already have that story, as bloated and convoluted as it was. You can only tell a story like that once. Now, let's do something completely different.

 

 

I've never really fully considered the whole "Island is mata Nui" a central plot theme anyway, even though that was planned from the get-go.

 

To me, the core story elements have always been thusly:

• Tropical paradise
• Robotic beings clearly out of their comfort zone
• Elemental Heroes
• A number system of base-six.

I see no reason to build off those aspects and go somewhere entirely different, picking pieces out of the old storyline as it becomes necessary or to give older fans their nostalgic kick.

 

Don't you mean "I see no reason not to..."?

 

But anyway, I personally consider the Great Spirit's nature a very important part of the BIONICLE storyline. Even if it isn't kept secret or made into the driving force behind the entire story, the Matoran's relationship to the Great Spirit would not be the same if you changed his nature or wrote him out of the story entirely. The story was a "biological chronicle" NOT just because its characters happened to have biological components (that'd be just stupid — ANY story set on earth would be a "biological chronicle" by that standard) but because the entire story was a biological analogue — tiny heroes fighting to save a greater entity and everyone that depended on it from an evil infection that had put it into an endless coma. That much was clear even before it was revealed that the Great Spirit WAS the world the Matoran inhabited — but that reveal was what tied everything together in the end.

 

The Great Spirit doesn't have to be involved in the story in the same way in a reboot, but I think his nature is essential. Turning him into a literal spirit with no body, or turning the Matoran's world into an utterly ordinary tropical island without a secret importance beneath the surface, would result in a much shallower story, I fear.

[toa kopaka4372]

 

 

Edit: Toatapio, that was probably an allusion to a recent post where somebody said they noticed a mention of alternate universes in one of the 2002 comics.   It was the "this is not an alternate universe, this really is Tahu leading an army of Bohrok against a Kal" thing. (Not literally a featuring of them, hence tk's emote.)

Yeah, that was it. I wasn't referring to the Vahi.

 

@bones That might not have been the most appropriate word to use I admit. I guess it seems like that to me because I've put a lot of thought into it without realizing that most people haven't. I meant to mention Lhikan but it slipped my mind. Yes, as it stands his is the only sacrifice nullified by the Red Star, something I'm not really happy about, but I did allude to it by saying that we don't know the condition of the revived. If Lhilkan were to be suffering some negative effect, it could be used for some potentially good storytelling, which ties into my point that we can't really judge the RS reveal fully as we never saw its execution in-story.

[bonesiii]

I've never really fully considered the whole "Island is mata Nui" a central plot theme anyway, even though that was planned from the get-go.

 

To me, the core story elements have always been thusly:

• Tropical paradise
• Robotic beings clearly out of their comfort zone
• Elemental Heroes
• A number system of base-six.

I see no reason not to build off those aspects and go somewhere entirely different

Now see, that's what I was driving at in asking what people meant.

 

I think this is quite possible, but something some may be missing is that Spherus Magna actually now gives us this opportunity without having to retcon out the big inspiration behind original Bionicle, the giant. The main difference is that it is now a vast supercontinent, it's not a tropical island. But the Toa from 2001 are there, etc. So, IMO the best way to do that is with a time-jump into the future.

 

Of course, it can also be done with a "totally new" type of reboot; new location entirely.

 

My point is, this can mostly be done without re-using Mata Nui island. (Actually, re-reading your wording, I'm not 100% sure you did mean to re-use that precise island. But anyways, this is the possibility I think we should definitely not be expecting. Would be kinda cool if it happens, but I think LEGO would be concerned about the downsides of doing that, given the widespread support that reveal got. I think it would be best to avoid the issue and invoke that feel again in a new location. I dunno.)

 

 

tk, I agree. (And speaking of that, fascinating results in the poll now. Things seem to actually be balancing out more, though the negative is still ahead, and there's a clear trend toward higher numbers toward the negative side of the first question. Your post in there seems to be possibly a big factor too, though -- I'm beginning to wonder if most of the people voting against it actually don't know its details. Which is also fair given the lousy method of reveal, heh. Whatevs.)

[Makaru]

Your post in there seems to be possibly a big factor too, though -- I'm beginning to wonder if most of the people voting against it actually don't know its details. Which is also fair given the lousy method of reveal, heh. Whatevs.)

I never posted in you poll, bones.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Makaru

[bonesiii]

Careful reading is helpful.

 

tk, I agree. (And speaking of that, fascinating results in the poll now. Things seem to actually be balancing out more, though the negative is still ahead, and there's a clear trend toward higher numbers toward the negative side of the first question. Your post in there seems to be possibly a big factor too, though -- I'm beginning to wonder if most of the people voting against it actually don't know its details. Which is also fair given the lousy method of reveal, heh. Whatevs.)

[Makaru]

My mistake. Though in my defense, you chose an odd time to express brevity.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Makaru

[Kopekemaster]

Mahri, I guess, or Phantoka. One of them. I guess Voya Nui was the last year I really remember loving. After that (while still in the MU), it was somewhat so-so for me. After the MU, it was rather eh.

[Jakura Nuva]

Mahri, I guess, or Phantoka. One of them. I guess Voya Nui was the last year I really remember loving. After that (while still in the MU), it was somewhat so-so for me. After the MU, it was rather eh.

What I do like about 2007, though, is that it was the end of "clone sets", which had been going on since practically 2002-2003/2004. The Inika may have had a few tweaks in armor and build here and there, but they were basically the same. The Piraka, too.

[bonesiii]

What I do like about 2007, though, is that it was the end of "clone sets", which had been going on since practically 2002-2003/2004. The Inika may have had a few tweaks in armor and build here and there, but they were basically the same. The Piraka, too.

End is a bit of a stretch. Several of the Barraki were definitely very uncloney. The Mahri and Newva had more tweaking than the Inika, though not a huge amount more than the original Toa Mata. The Swampakuta were pretty unique, the flying ones, eh. 2009... well, the Vorox were a bit different... Clonism seems to have gone back up then though, a bit.

 

2007 is remarkable on this issue though.

[Jakura Nuva]

 

What I do like about 2007, though, is that it was the end of "clone sets", which had been going on since practically 2002-2003/2004. The Inika may have had a few tweaks in armor and build here and there, but they were basically the same. The Piraka, too.

End is a bit of a stretch. Several of the Barraki were definitely very uncloney. The Mahri and Newva had more tweaking than the Inika, though not a huge amount more than the original Toa Mata. The Swampakuta were pretty unique, the flying ones, eh. 2009... well, the Vorox were a bit different... Clonism seems to have gone back up then though, a bit.

 

2007 is remarkable on this issue though.

I meant to say "pretty much the end", but yeah.

 

Then the clones returned in 2010

Edited August 21, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[Aanchir]

 

 

What I do like about 2007, though, is that it was the end of "clone sets", which had been going on since practically 2002-2003/2004. The Inika may have had a few tweaks in armor and build here and there, but they were basically the same. The Piraka, too.

End is a bit of a stretch. Several of the Barraki were definitely very uncloney. The Mahri and Newva had more tweaking than the Inika, though not a huge amount more than the original Toa Mata. The Swampakuta were pretty unique, the flying ones, eh. 2009... well, the Vorox were a bit different... Clonism seems to have gone back up then though, a bit.

 

2007 is remarkable on this issue though.

 

I meant to say "pretty much the end", but yeah.

 

Then the clones returned in 2010

 

The Stars were less cloned than the small sets that came before them, though. Really, the small sets have pretty much always been clones — the differences between the original Turaga were very slight, and 2007 had the Matoran and Hydruka which allowed for some variety, but most small sets were much clonier than the Stars. Which isn't to say the Stars were especially well-designed or fun to build. I admire them given the limitations the designers were working with, but their piece counts were still pitiful and a lot of their parts still fragile and super-specialized, something that got even worse with the first wave of Hero Factory heroes before improving dramatically with the second wave.

 

Really, small constraction sets didn't really break free of cloned/repetitive designs until the Hero Factory Breakout series in 2012, and by that point the "small sets" were similar in size, piece count, and price to the original "mid-size sets", the Toa Mata (adjusting for inflation, of course).

Edited August 21, 2014 by Aanchir

[Toa Zaz]

I agree with what some said above that I don't thing Bionicle ever got irredeemably awful or to the point where I would abandon it, but there were drops in quality and unwise decisions which were detrimental to the line.

 

Set-wise, I think 2006 was the last good year because the Inika were the last original designs. Up until then Bionicle had shown a lot of originality with every wave (aside from the Bohrok-Kal, of course. Also, the Toa Nuva were naturally similar to the Toa Mata, and the Vahki were kind of like the Rahkshi, but those were fine). Even though some of the sets after that were good or decent (the 2008 vehicles, 2008 Takanuva), they had totally lost that original spark and had been relegated to, many of which were either very mediocre or in fact awful sets.

 

Of course, if the Inika style of building had been better, than this wouldn't have been such a big problem, but the Inika builds had terrible proportions among other problems (also, they sacrificed functionality for poseability). And in 2008, the pretty good impulse set builds from 2007 were replaced by similarly terribly proportioned Av-Matoran builds which were relied upon until the end. One other benefit of the Inika builds was the abolishment of clone builds, something that was used to great effect in 2007 but by 2008 had largely returned to clone-build status. Some of the character designs were good, such as the Glatorian (though some, like the Phantoka/Mistika Toa, were bad), so if those designs had been translated into a better building system, then the sets could have turned out a lot better, but as it was the sets became inferior once the Inika builds became perpetually relied on. Note that I think CCBS, while more versatile than the Inika build and lacking many of the proportion problems, is terrible in its lack of detail and generic designs and as such is almost as stale as the Inika builds were.

 

Story-wise, I actually think a lot of the early story was pretty weak, just the Toa finding masks or whatever (though the Mata Nui Online Game did a fantastic job of world-building to compensate for the initially thin story). I think 2004-onwards was an improvement to the story in a lot of ways by expanding and complicating the universe. I get that a lot of people didn't like 2004-2005 because it was all a flashback and we know where it was heading, and I liked the darker and higher stakes turn that 2006 and 2007 took. 2006 had story problems because too much focus was placed on the first half of the year so the second half was really rushed, and the first half of 2007 suffered greatly from lack of story (this can likely be attributed to the canceled book). But the second half of 2007 was fantastic, raising the stakes and culminating in Matoro's death. I think the story really peaked in 2007 and afterwards it was on the decline.

 

2008 was weak because there were little stakes and really not much actually happening. I think part of this may have been that Greg had to rewrite the story because of Ahkmou or whatever, but it was a step down.

 

The 2009 story was bad for numerous reasons. The attempt to reboot the story by establishing a new world was a failure. It didn't develop itself well enough or in an interesting enough way to stand on its own. It both stuck too close to the typical Bionicle structure to be derivative and simultaneously failed to have what made us like Bionicle in the first place. The greatest flaw was that it was boring. The setting was really boring, and little effort was put into it to really make it even feel like a desert. The Glatorian fights were utterly boring because they weren't to the death and they were for no discernable reason. The Skrall were really dull villains whose motivations were initially nonexistent and when they were finally revealed didn't make much sense. And the traitor thing was overhyped, predictable, and underwhelming. And The Legend Reborn was, while not quite awful, extremely mediocre.

 

The 2010 story was badly done, and certainly not ideal or a fitting end to Bionicle, but I thought it was kind of cool and considering that they had little to work with it wasn't too bad. If Hero Factory ends after this year, then I seriously doubt that it will get a send-off of this quality.

 

The web serials were a great idea to expand the universe and tell different kinds of stories. I like the complication of the mythology. I like that they were darker than the regular story. I didn't like that they became largely terribly written, convoluted, and made no sense. Greg's making-it-up-as-he-goes-along technique is a horrible way to make up a story, with Riddle of the Great Beings probably being his most abysmal and egregious failure. The best stories in my opinion, Federation of Fear and Dark Mirror, were the ones where the objective was clearly in sight from the start. What also really sucked was Greg's diminishing output, going from six serials a year to three and consistently reducing the number of chapters in each.

 

All the post-sets story was awful. Greg was unwilling to bother finishing it or even maintaining it at a reasonable pace, and by the time he got to occasional information dumps on the Lego message boards the story had basically died.

 

Hopefully if Bionicle comes back, the quality and depth of the story will be maintained along with an attempt to bring back the feeling of the Bionicle that we fell in love with, without becoming convoluted or poorly written.

[Jakura Nuva]

 

 

 

What I do like about 2007, though, is that it was the end of "clone sets", which had been going on since practically 2002-2003/2004. The Inika may have had a few tweaks in armor and build here and there, but they were basically the same. The Piraka, too.

End is a bit of a stretch. Several of the Barraki were definitely very uncloney. The Mahri and Newva had more tweaking than the Inika, though not a huge amount more than the original Toa Mata. The Swampakuta were pretty unique, the flying ones, eh. 2009... well, the Vorox were a bit different... Clonism seems to have gone back up then though, a bit.2007 is remarkable on this issue though.

I meant to say "pretty much the end", but yeah.Then the clones returned in 2010

The Stars were less cloned than the small sets that came before them, though. Really, the small sets have pretty much always been clones — the differences between the original Turaga were very slight, and 2007 had the Matoran and Hydruka which allowed for some variety, but most small sets were much clonier than the Stars. Which isn't to say the Stars were especially well-designed or fun to build. I admire them given the limitations the designers were working with, but their piece counts were still pitiful and a lot of their parts still fragile and super-specialized, something that got even worse with the first wave of Hero Factory heroes before improving dramatically with the second wave.Really, small constraction sets didn't really break free of cloned/repetitive designs until the Hero Factory Breakout series in 2012, and by that point the "small sets" were similar in size, piece count, and price to the original "mid-size sets", the Toa Mata (adjusting for inflation, of course).

I was thinking of the Hero Factory heroes that year when I said that Edited August 21, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[believe victims]

The Stars were less cloned than the small sets that came before them, though. Really, the small sets have pretty much always been clones

The Matoran of Voya Nui would like to speak to you. Even barring Kazi, the only two that could truly be said to be clones were Garan and Velika. The others had more variation than even the most different of Stars, and infinitely more useful pieces.

[Aanchir]

 

The Stars were less cloned than the small sets that came before them, though. Really, the small sets have pretty much always been clones

The Matoran of Voya Nui would like to speak to you. Even barring Kazi, the only two that could truly be said to be clones were Garan and Velika. The others had more variation than even the most different of Stars, and infinitely more useful pieces.

 

D'oh! How could I forget about those? They were awesome! Thanks for catching my stupid goof-up.

[Banana Gunz]

 

 

*snip*

*snip*

 

D'oh! How could I forget about those? They were awesome! Thanks for catching my stupid goof-up.

 

 

GASP! Aanchir goofed up! How could this be possible? The world must be out of alignment or something!   

[Toa of Ice - 1987]

 

The 2009 story was bad for numerous reasons. The attempt to reboot the story by establishing a new world was a failure. It didn't develop itself well enough or in an interesting enough way to stand on its own. It both stuck too close to the typical Bionicle structure to be derivative and simultaneously failed to have what made us like Bionicle in the first place. The greatest flaw was that it was boring. The setting was really boring, and little effort was put into it to really make it even feel like a desert. The Glatorian fights were utterly boring because they weren't to the death and they were for no discernable reason. The Skrall were really dull villains whose motivations were initially nonexistent and when they were finally revealed didn't make much sense. And the traitor thing was overhyped, predictable, and underwhelming. And The Legend Reborn was, while not quite awful, extremely mediocre.

 

Yeah 2009 was a bad enviroment reboot. It was basically the equivalent of post-apocalyptic setting in ancient rome environment with 1 stranded person(mata nui in glatorian/inika form) who needs to prepare to planet for repairs. also it was a VERY annoying rule that the skrall were supposed to be a army of overpowered superstrength individuals and even one skrall would be hard for 2 persons to deal with.

Edited August 22, 2014 by ---Kopaka Nuva---

[Akuna Toa of Sonics]

In retrospect, 2009 was not one of Bionicle's better years. At the beginning of the year, the story moved to a new planet with new characters, mythology, and culture. It really could have gone the way of 2001-that is, it could have had an aura of mystery. I mean, there was so much for the story to introduce and expand on outside of the novels, but 2009 just turned out to be...boring.

2009 wasn't great with set designs, either.

[toa kopaka4372]

Wow, it seems I'm in the minority by saying I loved 2009....I don't know, the characters that year were especially fantastic, and Mata Nui himself finally appeared in the story. It was great.

[Nato G]

I really liked 2009 as well. The mystery at the start - is this the future of the Bionicle world after Makuta destroys it? - kept me perpetually interested. And when Mata Nui arrived and I realised he was going to be the main character, I got even more interested. I thought 2009 was going to be a real turning point for Bionicle, and that great things would come afterwards, but instead Lego chose to end it the very next year. 

 

My soul was crushed by the advent of the Stars. A truly pitiful way to end the greatest story of my childhood. 

[J46 Nui]

I liked '09 too, but I think it could have been much better. I have the same feelings for it as I do for '05; everything except for the movie was pretty good. But unlike in '05, there did not seem to be much going on besides the movie. I love the ideas and setting behind '09, but I thought that it could have been executed much better.

 

Another thing that '09 had going for it was that, in my opinion, it had the best sets out of any year that used the Inika mold.

[toa kopaka4372]

But unlike in '05, there did not seem to be much going on besides the movie. I love the ideas and setting behind '09, but I thought that it could have been executed much better.

Well, there was Raid on Vulcanus, which IMO was one of the best BIONICLE novels ever written. 

[Jakura Nuva]

I really liked 2009 as well. The mystery at the start - is this the future of the Bionicle world after Makuta destroys it? - kept me perpetually interested. And when Mata Nui arrived and I realised he was going to be the main character, I got even more interested. I thought 2009 was going to be a real turning point for Bionicle, and that great things would come afterwards, but instead Lego chose to end it the very next year.

 

My soul was crushed by the advent of the Stars. A truly pitiful way to end the greatest story of my childhood.

 

Yeah, Stars weren't the best, I have to admit. But what would Lego have done if not Stars? Edited August 22, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[believe victims]

 

I really liked 2009 as well. The mystery at the start - is this the future of the Bionicle world after Makuta destroys it? - kept me perpetually interested. And when Mata Nui arrived and I realised he was going to be the main character, I got even more interested. I thought 2009 was going to be a real turning point for Bionicle, and that great things would come afterwards, but instead Lego chose to end it the very next year.

 

My soul was crushed by the advent of the Stars. A truly pitiful way to end the greatest story of my childhood.

Yeah, Stars weren't the best, I have to admit. But what would Lego have done if not Stars?

 

 

better sets, preferably.