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Spherus Magna Sapient Species Evolution Theory

Spherus Magna Evolution Sapient Species Biology Lil Wayne

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#1 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 10:27 PM

Hi guys, I hope Lil Wayne there got your attention (bad joke).

Anyway, I'd like to introduce you my theory of Spherus Magna Sapient Species Evolution. Here I proposed that most sapient species on Spherus Magna came from one original species, and I divided them up accordingly into an evolutionary Phylogenic tree. This is what I have so far, and please let me know if you find holes or if you'd like to add something. Feel free to use the drawing in proposing your own thoughts.

 

Posted Image

Original Phylogenic Tree.

 

As you can see, I included the reasons for why speciation might/does occur. This is just an idea to build on, and I'll make a better drawing soon. If you have any questions on what  each one of these means, let me know and I'll edit the topic clarifying it.

 

Please do poke holes in this! It will only make it more interesting :D

 

Brought to you by Microsoft Paint.


Edited by Velge Co, Dec 08 2012 - 04:32 PM.

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#2 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 10:44 PM

Interesting...but why are the Bone Hunters closer to the "prime species"? And why are you assuming that Bota and Bara Vorox are different species? They could be the same species, just changed slightly due to their environment (jungle vs. desert). Mental and GB changes do not necessarily indicate a species division.  

 

Also, I am not sure that the assumption that all the species had the same origin point is accurate. Some of those species could have traveled in from other planets (not likely, but possible), or some other "original beings" came along and built all of these species. 


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#3 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 10:52 PM

Interesting...but why are the Bone Hunters closer to the "prime species"? And why are you assuming that Bota and Bara Vorox are different species? They could be the same species, just changed slightly due to their environment (jungle vs. desert). Mental and GB changes do not necessarily indicate a species division.  

 

Also, I am not sure that the assumption that all the species had the same origin point is accurate. Some of those species could have traveled in from other planets (not likely, but possible), or some other "original beings" came along and built all of these species. 

They're not necessarily closer to the prime species, that whole tree represents Agori and their divergence. They are close however due to the fact that they diverged first (at least to my knowledge).

 

And the Voroz/Zesk thing, while they may not be technically a different species I put it up there as their genetic makeup is different, and they have certain traits that one may argue classify them as a different species. The reason I split up the Bara/Bota is because of their intelligence, which is also an important trait in speciation. While the Vorox and Zesk of Bara/Bota Magna may not be separate species yet, I would argue that they're well on their way on being so. :)

 

And I'm just assuming that they all originate on Spherus Magna. I was going to include GBs but then I discovered they settled Spherus Magna. But hey, if you have your own ideas on this I'd love to hear them! :)


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#4 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 11:04 PM

Where does it say that the GB's were originally from somewhere else?
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#5 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 11:23 PM

Where does it say that the GB's were originally from somewhere else?

BS01. First paragraph under History.


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#6 Offline fishers64

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 11:43 PM

 

Interesting...but why are the Bone Hunters closer to the "prime species"? And why are you assuming that Bota and Bara Vorox are different species? They could be the same species, just changed slightly due to their environment (jungle vs. desert). Mental and GB changes do not necessarily indicate a species division.  

 

Also, I am not sure that the assumption that all the species had the same origin point is accurate. Some of those species could have traveled in from other planets (not likely, but possible), or some other "original beings" came along and built all of these species. 

 

They're not necessarily closer to the prime species, that whole tree represents Agori and their divergence. They are close however due to the fact that they diverged first (at least to my knowledge).

 

And the Voroz/Zesk thing, while they may not be technically a different species I put it up there as their genetic makeup is different, and they have certain traits that one may argue classify them as a different species. The reason I split up the Bara/Bota is because of their intelligence, which is also an important trait in speciation. While the Vorox and Zesk of Bara/Bota Magna may not be separate species yet, I would argue that they're well on their way on being so. :)

 

And I'm just assuming that they all originate on Spherus Magna. I was going to include GBs but then I discovered they settled Spherus Magna. But hey, if you have your own ideas on this I'd love to hear them! :)

 

 

Hmm...

 

Bone Hunters were Rock Tribe Agori, but broke off from the Agori species and evolved into their own species.

 

Okay, maybe. 

 

We don't know that speciation exists in Bionicle. And while it has been a couple years since I took AP Biology, I'm pretty sure inteligence has little to do with it. Has to do with differing environments, not intelligence. And while it can be argued that the differing environments in question contributed to the Vorox's differing intelligence (in fact, I agree there),  I doubt that makes them different species. (Mentally handicapped humans are still human...yeah? :lookaround:

 

As for the rest of it, I am not going to try to beat my fellow theorist bonesiii http://www.bzpower.c...iginal +beings] here[/url]. Basically it's the idea that there were intelligent beings back in the day who discovered EP and decided to build planets with intelligent life on them. And, so my reasoning goes off the theory, if the intelligent beings in question had the power of EP at their disposal, why not make a bunch of different species on the planet, as opposed to just one who "speciated" into all these? 

 

It's possible...:shrugs: 

 

I did have a theory I was building on for an epic in which the Skrall were invading SM and got stuck there for some reason, and conquered all the other races on SM (I threw the theory out for those purposes, so I can talk about it :P). It would seem to explain the Skrall's former "empire" and all the strange customs they have. 


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#7 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 12:04 AM

 

Where does it say that the GB's were originally from somewhere else?

BS01. First paragraph under History.

 

I'm a bit confused on that point, as I don't recall any story source or Greg quote confirming they are not native, but that sentence, something Annona said, and a quote in the Trivia section on the GB page too all do imply they're not native.

 

I had thought of this basic idea too as I posted in a recent topic, but I thought the GBs were related to Glatorian.

 

The BS01 page does seem to make it clear that they didn't really become the fully genius creators they are until their encounter with Annona. And Annona is confirmed native, and seemingly not related to the Glat/Agori. So yeah, not entirely clear how that works. Someone should ask Erebus to ask Greg if the GBs originated on SM or not...

 

Anywho, to most of this theory, it makes some sense to me. I would expect the Leader class of Skrall to be more ancient than the modern types (other than Tuma, a last survivor of that now-defunct type), though. And I agree with fishers that the Vorox are probably all one species, not two. You could modify the chart with a note that they're geographically isolated members of the same species though; such distinctions do occur. Dog breeds for example.

 

As for the others, seems fairly reasonable to me. It's quite possible Glatorian and Agori are two completely separate beings, with all others falling somewhere in those families, but I don't think so because both their faces look nearly identical (movie version; obviously the set has a set reason for it). I think the Agori family is a dwarf version of the Glatorian, or the Glatorian are giant versions of Agori, etc.

 

And from the linguistic evidence it's probably the latter. Agori are the root species, hence why the GB page for example can refer to the Agori as the inhabitants of the planet, and similar to the MU referring to Matoran, it includes all the relatives of that kind in the umbrella term. (Although to be cautious, not sure if that's just the article's wording or from canon.)

 

Annona, however, would be a completely different kind of sapient life, and so apparently would the GBs?

 

Still confused on that point, though, because Annona apparently believed that beings like the GBs might come. Which could mean "come to exist" as I originally thought, or "come from space". :shrugs:


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#8 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 12:24 AM

 

 

Where does it say that the GB's were originally from somewhere else?

BS01. First paragraph under History.

 

I'm a bit confused on that point, as I don't recall any story source or Greg quote confirming they are not native, but that sentence, something Annona said, and a quote in the Trivia section on the GB page too all do imply they're not native.

 

I had thought of this basic idea too as I posted in a recent topic, but I thought the GBs were related to Glatorian.

 

The BS01 page does seem to make it clear that they didn't really become the fully genius creators they are until their encounter with Annona. And Annona is confirmed native, and seemingly not related to the Glat/Agori. So yeah, not entirely clear how that works. Someone should ask Erebus to ask Greg if the GBs originated on SM or not...

 

Anywho, to most of this theory, it makes some sense to me. I would expect the Leader class of Skrall to be more ancient than the modern types (other than Tuma, a last survivor of that now-defunct type), though. And I agree with fishers that the Vorox are probably all one species, not two. You could modify the chart with a note that they're geographically isolated members of the same species though; such distinctions do occur. Dog breeds for example.

 

As for the others, seems fairly reasonable to me. It's quite possible Glatorian and Agori are two completely separate beings, with all others falling somewhere in those families, but I don't think so because both their faces look nearly identical (movie version; obviously the set has a set reason for it). I think the Agori family is a dwarf version of the Glatorian, or the Glatorian are giant versions of Agori, etc.

 

And from the linguistic evidence it's probably the latter. Agori are the root species, hence why the GB page for example can refer to the Agori as the inhabitants of the planet, and similar to the MU referring to Matoran, it includes all the relatives of that kind in the umbrella term. (Although to be cautious, not sure if that's just the article's wording or from canon.)

 

Annona, however, would be a completely different kind of sapient life, and so apparently would the GBs?

 

Still confused on that point, though, because Annona apparently believed that beings like the GBs might come. Which could mean "come to exist" as I originally thought, or "come from space". :shrugs:

 

The reason I didn't include the GBs on there is because we know so little about them, and in my mind all the evidence points to them being alien to the planet.  :shrugs:

 

Now that you mention it, it is possible that the Glatorian are gigants that diverged from the Agori species and created their own. This would sort of make sense as the Agori are the most numerous, and how the GB had the Toa come from Matoran like you said.

 

On the Vorox subject, I do understand this and I think I'll have them separate as breeds, maybe dotted lines?

 

On the Anona subject, I just try to stay away from it. I mean it's a mass of tentacles that burns like the sun, and I don't have much info to go off of and I don't want to just be making things up, so I decided to leave it along with the EPE and GBs aside for now.

 

And I'll update the tree soon, not quite now since I'm "doing" hw. :P

 

 

 

fishers: Oh no, I get that Vorox are the same species, I just wanted to differentiate them in some way. :P

And I think that the fact that the Bone Hunters and Skrall are confirmed to have split from the original Agori and Glatorian species shows us that evolution is present in Bionicle. At least on Spherus Magna... to some extent... :P


Edited by Velge Co, Dec 07 2012 - 12:28 AM.

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#9 Offline Death of the Endless

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 01:16 AM

1) I wouldn't put the Elemental Lords on here at all.  There are only six of them, they possess wildly different biologies, and one of them was originally a Skrall, which moves it over to the third branch of the cladogram.  Anyway, I don't think they'd count as a "species".

 

2) Also, I agree with some of the previous posters that the two kinds of Vorox and Zesk should be considered the same.

 

3) What makes you think they all come from an "Original Sapient Species"?  Although the Skrall are confirmed to be related to the Glatoriagori, that doesn't necessarily mean they're that closely related.  They could have easily evolved sapience separately, especially when you contrast their almost eusocial society with the Glatoriagori's.

 

4) I'd put the Glatorian and the Agori as much, much more closely related than you have them here.  More closely related to each other than to the rest.  There doesn't seem to be much of a difference between them besides size -- in fact, I'd put them in the same genus.

 

5) The Vorox/Zesk should be only distantly related to the others.  I mean, they're arthropods, and everybody else is a primatoid of some sort.  Again, developed sapience separately.


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#10 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 01:44 AM

1) I wouldn't put the Elemental Lords on here at all.  There are only six of them, they possess wildly different biologies, and one of them was originally a Skrall, which moves it over to the third branch of the cladogram.  Anyway, I don't think they'd count as a "species".

 

2) Also, I agree with some of the previous posters that the two kinds of Vorox and Zesk should be considered the same.

 

3) What makes you think they all come from an "Original Sapient Species"?  Although the Skrall are confirmed to be related to the Glatoriagori, that doesn't necessarily mean they're that closely related.  They could have easily evolved sapience separately, especially when you contrast their almost eusocial society with the Glatoriagori's.

 

4) I'd put the Glatorian and the Agori as much, much more closely related than you have them here.  More closely related to each other than to the rest.  There doesn't seem to be much of a difference between them besides size -- in fact, I'd put them in the same genus.

 

5) The Vorox/Zesk should be only distantly related to the others.  I mean, they're arthropods, and everybody else is a primatoid of some sort.  Again, developed sapience separately.

1. Yeah, I wasn't too sure what to do with them, I just sorta but them there, but you're right they'd actually come from the Skrall, Vorox, and Glatorian.

 

2. I addressed this in the new tree, I'll have it up probably tomorrow.

 

3. I just sort of traced back all species and then concluded that the they come from a same species, it's simply a part of my theory  :shrugs:

 

4. They are closely related in my mind, this just shows how all the other species came from them. If you'd like to draw it, I'd be happy to take a look! :)

 

5. True, but they have been relatively recently altered, and besides, they are really close to their respective species father-species.

 

Also, on a side note, this is more of a phylogenic tree, rather than a cladogram. :)


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#11 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 01:57 AM

 

2) Also, The Vorox/Zesk should be only distantly related to the others.  I mean, they're arthropods, and everybody else is a primatoid of some sort.

 

Huh? The Vorox and Zesk are just altered Glatorian/Agori. They're more related to the main species than the Skrall are.

 

I agree that the Agori and Glatorian could be arranged better. I would do it like this:

 

Original Species

-Agori

--Bone Hunters and Agori subtypes

-Glatorian

--Skrall and Glatorian subtypes.


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#12 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 02:54 AM

 

 

2) Also, The Vorox/Zesk should be only distantly related to the others.  I mean, they're arthropods, and everybody else is a primatoid of some sort.

 

Huh? The Vorox and Zesk are just altered Glatorian/Agori. They're more related to the main species than the Skrall are.

 

I agree that the Agori and Glatorian could be arranged better. I would do it like this:

 

Original Species

-Agori

--Bone Hunters and Agori subtypes

-Glatorian

--Skrall and Glatorian subtypes.

 

Isn't that how I did it..? I was going for that, mine's just a bit more in depth I think.. Idk, maybe I need to redraw it because I think many are confused.


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#13 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 10:34 AM

 

Interesting...but why are the Bone Hunters closer to the "prime species"? And why are you assuming that Bota and Bara Vorox are different species? They could be the same species, just changed slightly due to their environment (jungle vs. desert). Mental and GB changes do not necessarily indicate a species division.  

 

Also, I am not sure that the assumption that all the species had the same origin point is accurate. Some of those species could have traveled in from other planets (not likely, but possible), or some other "original beings" came along and built all of these species. 

They're not necessarily closer to the prime species, that whole tree represents Agori and their divergence. They are close however due to the fact that they diverged first (at least to my knowledge).

 

And the Voroz/Zesk thing, while they may not be technically a different species I put it up there as their genetic makeup is different, and they have certain traits that one may argue classify them as a different species. The reason I split up the Bara/Bota is because of their intelligence, which is also an important trait in speciation. While the Vorox and Zesk of Bara/Bota Magna may not be separate species yet, I would argue that they're well on their way on being so. :)

 

And I'm just assuming that they all originate on Spherus Magna. I was going to include GBs but then I discovered they settled Spherus Magna. But hey, if you have your own ideas on this I'd love to hear them! :)

 

 

If the Great Beings are aliens and they weren't Spherus Magna natives, then why?? Shouldn't they be similar to the Glatorian or the Agori villagers?

I always visualize them as human Glatorian with Ackar's helmets and their human clothes worn.


Edited by bohrokmaster, Dec 07 2012 - 11:22 AM.

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#14 Online The Tomorrow Girl

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 11:03 AM

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Oooo, neat.  Glad someone took the time to put together a phylogenetic tree of the SM species.[/font]

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Although it probably has been state before, I think that a few branches can be removed, such as the Bota Vorox and Jungle-fused Agori.  As they are more of a separate population than a separate species.  (I may live on the complete other side of the Earth as you, but it doesn't make me a different species.)  The Elemental Lords also seem a bit unnecissary, mainly because it was just six idividuals altered, instead of the entire species, as in the case of the Vorox and Zesk.[/font]

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Other than that, this agrees surprisingly well with how I imagined the species were related.[/font]


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#15 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 01:25 PM

 

1) I wouldn't put the Elemental Lords on here at all.  There are only six of them, they possess wildly different biologies, and one of them was originally a Skrall, which moves it over to the third branch of the cladogram.  Anyway, I don't think they'd count as a "species".

 

2) Also, I agree with some of the previous posters that the two kinds of Vorox and Zesk should be considered the same.

 

3) What makes you think they all come from an "Original Sapient Species"?  Although the Skrall are confirmed to be related to the Glatoriagori, that doesn't necessarily mean they're that closely related.  They could have easily evolved sapience separately, especially when you contrast their almost eusocial society with the Glatoriagori's.

 

4) I'd put the Glatorian and the Agori as much, much more closely related than you have them here.  More closely related to each other than to the rest.  There doesn't seem to be much of a difference between them besides size -- in fact, I'd put them in the same genus.

 

5) The Vorox/Zesk should be only distantly related to the others.  I mean, they're arthropods, and everybody else is a primatoid of some sort.  Again, developed sapience separately.

1. Yeah, I wasn't too sure what to do with them, I just sorta but them there, but you're right they'd actually come from the Skrall, Vorox, and Glatorian.

 

2. I addressed this in the new tree, I'll have it up probably tomorrow.

 

3. I just sort of traced back all species and then concluded that the they come from a same species, it's simply a part of my theory  :shrugs:

 

4. They are closely related in my mind, this just shows how all the other species came from them. If you'd like to draw it, I'd be happy to take a look! :)

 

5. True, but they have been relatively recently altered, and besides, they are really close to their respective species father-species.

 

Also, on a side note, this is more of a phylogenic tree, rather than a cladogram. :)

 

Some notes on these points.

 

1) I would definitely keep the Element Lords. It's best to make such charts as detailed as possible, not assume people will already know the more trivial things.

 

3) The close similarity of the faces of the two major types, Glatorian and Agori, plus confirmed relations between some other groups, and the common way of referring to the whole planet's population as "Agori" provide strong evidence that there was an Original species, and I think it was called Agori.

 

BTW, the name logic for Glatorian makes sense in that context, as they're named for the gladiator sport they are good at which was invented to resolve conflicts. Not sure if this reasoning works far enough back in time; was that system established after the Core War and were they called Glatorian already? Still, the basic idea at least seems to make sense to me that after a while a trait of giantism (healthy type, or perhaps kept healthy by the cybernetic implants?) developed in some Agori, and they were pushed to the front of the line in terms of who is used for combat.

 

In the case of the Skrall the giantism apparently continued more than in most, creating the Giant Skrall (ruler class), but for whatever reason they went extinct later except for Tuma. Could be health reasons, as giants in real life often die younger than smaller beings, both in humans and animals. Or could simply be that they wiped each other out in personal duel type battles or the like, as often happens with the strongest and healthiest in warlike cultures, leaving a remnant of only the weak.

 

I could add other plausibility remarks here but they would tread too closely into controversial real-life subjects, and this is fiction anyways so anything's possible here really. Suffice to say, the basic tree arrangement here does make sense, of the three big families.

 

4) I don't see how you could plausibly arrange the list so the most numerous tall species is more closely related to the most numerous small species than they are to their respective tall and short cousins. Logically all the smaller types are more closely related to Agori and the tallers to Glatorian. The alternatives are possible but you'd have to add a bunch of evidenceless coincidental subspeculations to it.

 

5) This one brings up some interesting questions and may throw a wrench in the small/large family branches. That is, why would the same intelligence decay happen in the Sand type of both the Glatorian and Agori? 

However, it's possible such a thing could be caused by a virus that attaches to that elemental type. We've seen a similar virus with the Iron Tribe, so it's possible. But even if it's just coincidence, you'd have to have a coincidence anyways if you put them as a fourth family branch; why did both tall and short happen to develop there too, just as with the others? So in terms of story evidence it really doesn't matter either way. So it's probably wisest to stick to the general trend and group large with large, etc.


Edited by bonesiii, Dec 07 2012 - 01:28 PM.

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#16 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Dec 07 2012 - 01:59 PM

 

 

I agree that the Agori and Glatorian could be arranged better. I would do it like this:

 

Original Species

-Agori

--Bone Hunters and Agori subtypes

-Glatorian

--Skrall and Glatorian subtypes.

 

Isn't that how I did it..? I was going for that, mine's just a bit more in depth I think.. Idk, maybe I need to redraw it because I think many are confused.

 

-----

Sorry, what I meant was, instead of having two main lines with Agori and Glatorian at the ends, make them smaller branches from the original species with the subtypes branching out under them, instead of along the side of the line.

 

 

Some notes on these points.

 

1) I would definitely keep the Element Lords. It's best to make such charts as detailed as possible, not assume people will already know the more trivial things.

 

3) The close similarity of the faces of the two major types, Glatorian and Agori, plus confirmed relations between some other groups, and the common way of referring to the whole planet's population as "Agori" provide strong evidence that there was an Original species, and I think it was called Agori.

 

BTW, the name logic for Glatorian makes sense in that context, as they're named for the gladiator sport they are good at which was invented to resolve conflicts. Not sure if this reasoning works far enough back in time; was that system established after the Core War and were they called Glatorian already? Still, the basic idea at least seems to make sense to me that after a while a trait of giantism (healthy type, or perhaps kept healthy by the cybernetic implants?) developed in some Agori, and they were pushed to the front of the line in terms of who is used for combat.

-----

I think Glatorian is just a job title, and unfortunately we never got an official name for the tall species. Of course this divergence would probably have happened a long, long time before the Core War, if that's the combat you're talking about. Even if they evolve very quickly, it would probably take millions of years, considering how long they live.

 

In the case of the Skrall the giantism apparently continued more than in most, creating the Giant Skrall (ruler class), but for whatever reason they went extinct later except for Tuma. Could be health reasons, as giants in real life often die younger than smaller beings, both in humans and animals. Or could simply be that they wiped each other out in personal duel type battles or the like, as often happens with the strongest and healthiest in warlike cultures, leaving a remnant of only the weak.

-----

I thought it was mainly because the Baterra wiped out the rest of the Skrall leaders.

 

 

However, it's possible such a thing could be caused by a virus that attaches to that elemental type. We've seen a similar virus with the Iron Tribe, so it's possible.

 

-----

Huh? That wasn't a virus. About the Vorox and Zesk, I think Greg might have said something about how they were pretty savage already, and the Shattering just pushed the Bara Magna ones over the edge. Not so sure on that one, though.


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#17 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 04:38 PM

I updated the tree with the suggestions. I'd like to point out that the left tree represents the Glatorian and their family, while the right represents the Agori and their family.

 

And bonesiii, I think it's safe to name them Original Agori, what you say seems to make sense!

 

Also, I agree with the points you're addressing Iron Toa, I think Greg did say they were savage before, the rulers died off because of the Baterra, and I imagine that the split happened way before the Civil War (perhaps before the Great Beings came along?). :)


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#18 Offline Last Son Amakusa

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 04:41 PM

Wait, what are Glatorian Superior and Jungle Fused Agori?
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#19 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 04:59 PM

Wait, what are Glatorian Superior and Jungle Fused Agori?

The glatorian Mata Nui made and the Bota Magna agori that captured lewa.I woul make the glatorian and agori way more closely related.

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#20 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 04:59 PM

Wait, what are Glatorian Superior and Jungle Fused Agori?

Agori of the Jungle Tribe have claws built into their bodies, whether it's natural or Great Being-caused.  "Glatorian Superior" is an unofficial name for the Glatorian evolved by Mata Nui with the Mask of Life (such as Gresh and Ackar).

 

Beyond that, the Vorox and Zesk were intentionally altered (relatively recently, at least from an evolutionary standpoint) by the Great Beings, they didn't evolve naturally.  You might want to note that somewhere.


Edited by Meta-Mind, Dec 08 2012 - 05:32 PM.

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#21 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 05:20 PM

Wait, what are Glatorian Superior and Jungle Fused Agori?

Glatorian superior are the ones who mata nui gave elemental powers.The jungle fused agori are the agori that took lewa away. It was noted that they were somewhat fused with plants, so i included them. They also seem to be more tribal so yeah.EDIT:Meta-Mind: I did note that, they have a little green dot where they diverge and if you look at the Legend it says GB interferance. :)

Edited by Velge Co, Dec 08 2012 - 05:28 PM.

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#22 Online The Tomorrow Girl

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 06:23 PM

 

Wait, what are Glatorian Superior and Jungle Fused Agori?

Glatorian superior are the ones who mata nui gave elemental powers.The jungle fused agori are the agori that took lewa away. It was noted that they were somewhat fused with plants, so i included them. They also seem to be more tribal so yeah.EDIT:Meta-Mind: I did note that, they have a little green dot where they diverge and if you look at the Legend it says GB interferance. :)

---

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Actually, the Agori on Bota Magna just have their armor and tools fused with plants, not themselves; so I'd imagine they'd be the same species as the Bara Magna Agori.[/font]


Edited by Frost Dragon, Dec 08 2012 - 06:24 PM.

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#23 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 06:43 PM

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Actually, the Agori on Bota Magna just have their armor and tools fused with plants, not themselves; so I'd imagine they'd be the same species as the Bara Magna Agori.[/font]

 

 

Right. But jungle Agori seem to have longer arms*, maybe you should list them as a race of the Agori species. In fact, I think all the elemental tribes should be listed as their own race.

 

*Well, the only example we have is Tarduk.


Edited by The Iron Toa, Dec 08 2012 - 06:44 PM.

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#24 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 06:48 PM

 

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Actually, the Agori on Bota Magna just have their armor and tools fused with plants, not themselves; so I'd imagine they'd be the same species as the Bara Magna Agori.[/font]

 

 

Right. But jungle Agori seem to have longer arms*, maybe you should list them as a race of the Agori species. In fact, I think all the elemental tribes should be listed as their own race.

 

*Well, the only example we have is Tarduk.

 

 

Not all of them. Perhaps the Jungle because of their long appendages and Rock since the Bone Hunters came from them specifically, but not Water, Ice and Fire simply because they're exactly alike other than their tribe affiliation.


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#25 Online The Tomorrow Girl

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 06:49 PM

 

Right. But jungle Agori seem to have longer arms*, maybe you should list them as a race of the Agori species. In fact, I think all the elemental tribes should be listed as their own race.

 

*Well, the only example we have is Tarduk.

 

---

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Hm...  I believe it was stated that the Agori and Glatorian can vary in terms of slight characteristics, but I may be wrong.  Also, I always thought that the Agori were all the same species, besides the obvious ones: the Bone Hunters and Zesk.[/font]


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#26 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 07:01 PM

 

 

Right. But jungle Agori seem to have longer arms*, maybe you should list them as a race of the Agori species. In fact, I think all the elemental tribes should be listed as their own race.

 

*Well, the only example we have is Tarduk.

 

---

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Hm...  I believe it was stated that the Agori and Glatorian can vary in terms of slight characteristics, but I may be wrong.  Also, I always thought that the Agori were all the same species, besides the obvious ones: the Bone Hunters and Zesk.[/font]

 

They are, we're just throwing out ideas as if we should separate them as different breeds, not species. :)


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#27 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 07:13 PM

Yeah, in scientific terms, we don't know what people are races and what are separate species. I think members of the different Agori tribes we know can interbreed, but I'm not sure if they could with Bone Hunters or Skrall.

 

I'd change the name of Glatorian Superior to something else, like Elemental Powers Glatorian. Well, there's probably something better than that, but that's what I could think of. The meaning of Glatorian Superior isn't immediately apparent.

 

Not all of them. Perhaps the Jungle because of their long appendages and Rock since the Bone Hunters came from them specifically, but not Water, Ice and Fire simply because they're exactly alike other than their tribe affiliation.

 

We don't know, but I'd guess they all have adaptations to the environments they prefer, like the Fire tribe would be resistant to heat while the Ice Agori would be adapted to the cold. We do know, however, that they tend to have different skin colors (assuming the color of their head in the set is their skin color. I can't remember if that was confirmed or not.). Ice Agori tend to be blue, Water Agori tend to be yellow-green, and most of the others seem to be orange.


Edited by The Iron Toa, Dec 08 2012 - 07:17 PM.

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#28 Online The Tomorrow Girl

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 07:18 PM

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Ah, I see now.[/font]

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]And as The Iron Toa said, perhaps a different name for "Glatorian Superior".[/font]


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#29 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 08:52 PM

Elemental Glatorian sounds better.

So I updated the topic  :P


Edited by Velge Co, Dec 08 2012 - 08:52 PM.

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#30 Online The Tomorrow Girl

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 09:12 PM

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Cool. Now, that's a bit easier to understand.[/font]

 

We don't know, but I'd guess they all have adaptations to the environments they prefer, like the Fire tribe would be resistant to heat while the Ice Agori would be adapted to the cold. We do know, however, that they tend to have different skin colors (assuming the color of their head in the set is their skin color. I can't remember if that was confirmed or not.). Ice Agori tend to be blue, Water Agori tend to be yellow-green, and most of the others seem to be orange.

---

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Now what would be neat if these traits developed more (assuming they do have slightly different traits from living in different environments) and eventually the species evolved apart.  Where as ____ Tribe Agori/Glatorain could be recognized as a separate species.[/font]


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#31 Offline Baron Von Nebula

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 10:44 PM

The Element Lords were members (probably Glatorian) of each tribe who were transformed by the GB's, so they wouldn't have evolved at all.  Also, Zesk were originally Sand Tribe Agori rather than scorpion beasts, and I suspect Bone Hunters to be a subspecies of Agori.  Other than that, this is a great idea!


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#32 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 11:48 PM

According to BS01, the Zesk and Vorox are still of the Agori and 'Glatorian' species. That makes sense to me.


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#33 Online The Tomorrow Girl

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Posted Dec 09 2012 - 12:23 AM

According to BS01, the Zesk and Vorox are still of the Agori and 'Glatorian' species. That makes sense to me.

---

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]That's interesting...[/font]

 

[font="'comic sans ms', cursive;"]Perhaps because they were only recently altered by the Great Beings, on an evolutionary time scale, that is.  Given the SM inhabitant's long life spans, I wouldn't be surprised if seems fairly recent to them.[/font]


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#34 Offline Onarax

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Posted Dec 09 2012 - 07:02 AM

This chart seems rather interesting, although I'm curious whether the Female Skrall have their own versions of Ruler, Warrior and Elite Skrall or not, or should they be classified differently.


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#35 Offline Archon~

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Posted Dec 09 2012 - 11:59 PM

This chart seems rather interesting, although I'm curious whether the Female Skrall have their own versions of Ruler, Warrior and Elite Skrall or not, or should they be classified differently.

 

I'm really not sure, that's why I just didn't want to include them. :P

But someone should ask Greg!


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