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Questions/Theories about EP

energized protodermis

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#1 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 01:50 PM

1. So, if the Energized Protodermis is sentient, why couldn't it have just pushed itself back into the core of Spherus Magna when it leaked out? Or, did the EP push itself out? And did the SM EP even have sentience, or was it just the EP in the MU?

 

2. Maybe the reason SM shattered was because Ep always either transforms or destroys whatever it touches. The core of the planet where it originally was must have been immune to this effect, otherwise it would have been destroyed long before the Core War. And maybe the EP, if it was sentient, pushed it's way to the surface of SM with the intent of destroying the planet, which would lead us to wonder why the EP would want to destroy the planet. 

 

3. Is there any EP in the core of the new Spherus Magna? And was there any in the core of Bara Magna?


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#2 Offline TheSkeletonMan939

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 02:02 PM

I'm pretty sure that while EP has always been sentient, it can't altogether control what happens to it. For instance, your heart can't change the fact that you're a fat smoker eating McDonald's every day. It just has to work harder to make up for all that unhealthiness until you get a heart attack. The Shattering was kind of like Spherus Magna's heart attack.

 

I think of EP of the paste that holds the planet together. I assume the EP knew this and knew it had a job to hold the planet together. Like a cell - not sentient the way we think of it, but it does jobs constantly that keep you alive.

 

And EP in the new SM? Probably, since EP was apparently the thing holding the entire freaking planet together. EP in Bara Magna? If I had to guess, I'd say yes - because where would the new EP holding SM together come from?


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#3 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 04:05 PM

I'm pretty sure that while EP has always been sentient, it can't altogether control what happens to it. For instance, your heart can't change the fact that you're a fat smoker eating McDonald's every day. It just has to work harder to make up for all that unhealthiness until you get a heart attack. The Shattering was kind of like Spherus Magna's heart attack.

 

I think of EP of the paste that holds the planet together. I assume the EP knew this and knew it had a job to hold the planet together. Like a cell - not sentient the way we think of it, but it does jobs constantly that keep you alive.

 

And EP in the new SM? Probably, since EP was apparently the thing holding the entire freaking planet together. EP in Bara Magna? If I had to guess, I'd say yes - because where would the new EP holding SM together come from?

While I mostly agree with you, I'm not sure about the first point you made... maybe it's just your analogy, since the heart isn't close to sentient, and the EP entity most certainly was.


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#4 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 04:39 PM

1. A sapient liquid is still a liquid. Liquids still leak, and the power of "holding itself together" is not an innate property of a liquid, or sapient things (aside from Makuta antidermis...).I don't know if the EP entity wanted to escape the planet, but this might help:

"I did not choose to come here," the Entity replied. "I lived in the core of a planet, until one day a portion of my substance forced its way to the surface. It did not take long for the inhabitants of that world to discover my power, or to begin warring over it. But some of what makes up my form was taken and placed inside this universe, and so escaped before cataclysm overtook that world."

Dispassionate, as if it were merely a property of itself. However, he could be lying.:shrugs:2. There is a material that EP will not transform or destroy, as it must have been used in the making of EP pools in the MU.3. It is confirmed by Greg that there is no EP on SM, so however the Core is now, it isn't EP in there.

Edited by fishers64, Mar 14 2013 - 04:40 PM.

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#5 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 04:45 PM

1. A sapient liquid is still a liquid. Liquids still leak, and the power of "holding itself together" is not an innate property of a liquid, or sapient things (aside from Makuta antidermis...).I don't know if the EP entity wanted to escape the planet, but this might help:

"I did not choose to come here," the Entity replied. "I lived in the core of a planet, until one day a portion of my substance forced its way to the surface. It did not take long for the inhabitants of that world to discover my power, or to begin warring over it. But some of what makes up my form was taken and placed inside this universe, and so escaped before cataclysm overtook that world."

Dispassionate, as if it were merely a property of itself. However, he could be lying.:shrugs:2. There is a material that EP will not transform or destroy, as it must have been used in the making of EP pools in the MU.3. It is confirmed by Greg that there is no EP on SM, so however the Core is now, it isn't EP in there.
Yep, I assume most of it was used in the creation of the Great Spirit Bot.

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#6 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 07:18 PM

1. A sapient liquid is still a liquid. Liquids still leak, and the power of "holding itself together" is not an innate property of a liquid, or sapient things (aside from Makuta antidermis...).I don't know if the EP entity wanted to escape the planet, but this might help:

"I did not choose to come here," the Entity replied. "I lived in the core of a planet, until one day a portion of my substance forced its way to the surface. It did not take long for the inhabitants of that world to discover my power, or to begin warring over it. But some of what makes up my form was taken and placed inside this universe, and so escaped before cataclysm overtook that world."

Dispassionate, as if it were merely a property of itself. However, he could be lying. :shrugs:2. There is a material that EP will not transform or destroy, as it must have been used in the making of EP pools in the MU.3. It is confirmed by Greg that there is no EP on SM, so however the Core is now, it isn't EP in there.
Yep, I assume most of it was used in the creation of the Great Spirit Bot.

So a portion of it's substance forced it's way to the surface. But can't the EP control what it destroys and what it transforms? Which would mean that it would have had a choice as to whether or not it wanted to destroy or transform SM. That must have been an interesting choice to make...


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#7 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 07:44 PM

But can't the EP control what it destroys and what it transforms? Which would mean that it would have had a choice as to whether or not it wanted to destroy or transform SM. That must have been an interesting choice to make...

It's not that kind of destroying. If the EP destroys something, it's gone. Poof. Spherus Magna was shattered -- there's a vast difference. And BS01 says that was because someone finally figured out how to tap into the power of the EP. Apparently doing so can have explosive results.

 

I see the Entity as a relatively small being that can move throughout the liquid, and yes, move the liquid to hold coherence at least enough to form a face and part of a body to communicate. And it can do a bit more. But it's one entity that moves anywhere there is a pool. That isn't necessarily quite the same as the entire collection of the liquid all being alive and under its direct control. Although I suspect its very nature transcends these apparent limitations more than we realize.

 

EP is still a mystery as far as its motives and what it did and did not do, cause, or allow, despite possibly having the power to stop it. And I like it that way, personally.


Edited by bonesiii, Mar 14 2013 - 07:45 PM.

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#8 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 07:48 PM

So a portion of it's substance forced it's way to the surface. But can't the EP control what it destroys and what it transforms? Which would mean that it would have had a choice as to whether or not it wanted to destroy or transform SM. That must have been an interesting choice to make...

We don't know, but this may help:

The substance has the ability to form itself into a physical form of any shape it chooses, and is capable of thinking and speaking through the form. It can channel itself through jets or into a tidal wave. It seems that it also has the limited ability to sense whether or not a being is destined to be transformed by Energized Protodermis, but not exactly how it will transform.

***

The Great Beings also used Exsidian as an ingredient to make Energized Protodermis-resistant material.

Excidian is naturally found on SM. Maybe the core of the planet is just naturally resistant to the stuff. :shrugs:

Edited by fishers64, Mar 14 2013 - 07:57 PM.

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#9 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 07:49 PM

1. I think it just leaked out uncontrollably, as flowing liquid is hard to control.2. I think when the EP was leaking out it created some pressure, causing Spherus Magna to "shatter".3. Most likely not, as it probably leaked out on different places of Spherus Magna.
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#10 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 08:02 PM

So a portion of it's substance forced it's way to the surface. But can't the EP control what it destroys and what it transforms? Which would mean that it would have had a choice as to whether or not it wanted to destroy or transform SM. That must have been an interesting choice to make...

We don't know, but this may help:

>The substance has the ability to form itself into a physical form of any shape it chooses, and is capable of thinking and speaking through the form. It can channel itself through jets or into a tidal wave. It seems that it also has the limited ability to sense whether or not a being is destined to be transformed by Energized Protodermis, but not exactly how it will transform.

***

The Great Beings also used Exsidian as an ingredient to make Energized Protodermis-resistant material.

Excidian is naturally found on SM. Maybe the core of the planet is just naturally resistant to the stuff. :shrugs:

 

But if it can channel itself, why didn't it force itself back into the core?


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#11 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 08:18 PM

Exsidian is naturally found on SM. Maybe the core of the planet is just naturally resistant to the stuff. :shrugs:

I've been wondering if maybe the interior of the planet is exsidian, and exsidian is the substance mutated by the EP that I've theorized about before, to be resistant. After all, there is no real-world material called exsidian, and the easiest explanation for it would be that it is caused by the EP.

 

But if it can channel itself, why didn't it force itself back into the core?

Again, we don't know. Its motives are still a mystery.


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#12 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 14 2013 - 09:52 PM

It's not that kind of destroying. If the EP destroys something, it's gone. Poof. Spherus Magna was shattered -- there's a vast difference. And BS01 says that was because someone finally figured out how to tap into the power of the EP. Apparently doing so can have explosive results.

Energized Protodermis is also explosive, something Vakama took advantage of to knock out Sentrakh during the Battle for the Kanohi Vahi.

No kidding.

 

But if it can channel itself, why didn't it force itself back into the core?

It might be difficult to put yourself back together after an explosion. :shrugs: See above. Also, I got the impression that the EP entity's channeling and wave effects are limited to the place where he's at. That planet is so big that he might not have been able to be everywhere at once.

 

Also begs the question of why the planet was resistant to EP, yet the fluid made it's way to the surface. If what was there truly was immune to the stuff, the EP shouldn't have been able to get though, and if it wasn't, then the planet would transform or destroy. (Was it transforming? :shrugs:) I guess what would make sense would be a material that would block it, but allow some effects through. (Or something stopping the fluid that wore off?)

 

Another thing that I read in Greg answers was that the EP didn't start off sapient either - it attained sapience after the GBs came about...here, I'll just quote it out of my file anyway: 

 

 

2. Is the Energized Protodermis being older than the GBs?

2) I would say no, because it did not achieve sentience that early.

 

If the thing wasn't sentient, it could have been the difference between being a fluid in a planet and a being that wanted to explore, break its way out. :shrugs: 


Edited by fishers64, Mar 14 2013 - 09:53 PM.

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#13 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 15 2013 - 03:37 PM

It's not that kind of destroying. If the EP destroys something, it's gone. Poof. Spherus Magna was shattered -- there's a vast difference. And BS01 says that was because someone finally figured out how to tap into the power of the EP. Apparently doing so can have explosive results.

>Energized Protodermis is also explosive, something Vakama took advantage of to knock out Sentrakh during the Battle for the Kanohi Vahi.

No kidding.

 

But if it can channel itself, why didn't it force itself back into the core?

It might be difficult to put yourself back together after an explosion. :shrugs: See above. Also, I got the impression that the EP entity's channeling and wave effects are limited to the place where he's at. That planet is so big that he might not have been able to be everywhere at once.

 

Also begs the question of why the planet was resistant to EP, yet the fluid made it's way to the surface. If what was there truly was immune to the stuff, the EP shouldn't have been able to get though, and if it wasn't, then the planet would transform or destroy. (Was it transforming? :shrugs:) I guess what would make sense would be a material that would block it, but allow some effects through. (Or something stopping the fluid that wore off?)

 

Another thing that I read in Greg answers was that the EP didn't start off sapient either - it attained sapience after the GBs came about...here, I'll just quote it out of my file anyway: 

 

 

2. Is the Energized Protodermis being older than the GBs?

2) I would say no, because it did not achieve sentience that early.

 

If the thing wasn't sentient, it could have been the difference between being a fluid in a planet and a being that wanted to explore, break its way out. :shrugs: 

 

I'm asking more along the lines of why didn't the EP notice it was was being forced to the surface and try to stuff itself back into the core? Somehow, I don't think the EP would have wanted the planet it lived in destroyed. Unless it didn't gain sentience until after it leaked to the surface...


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#14 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 05:46 AM

I'm asking more along the lines of why didn't the EP notice it was was being forced to the surface and try to stuff itself back into the core? Somehow, I don't think the EP would have wanted the planet it lived in destroyed. Unless it didn't gain sentience until after it leaked to the surface...

Sorry for the misunderstanding. :(It's possible that the EP didn't know that it was inside a planet and that there were beings up there that would take advantage of itself and destroy the planet. Also possible that it was curious about the outside world, as staring at the inside of a planet might not have been fine entertainment. Or it might have had malicious intentions, as you have theorized. (Like trying to escape the planet.) Or maybe a bit of all three, or something else. As bones said, we don't know what it's motivations are.(My memory keeps telling me that there was a dialogue sequence where the EP said that it wanted to escape the planet, but I can't place it...I looked up all the refrences I could think of of the Entity talking, but I can't find it. Probably just an old rogue theory, I hope.)

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#15 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 12:07 PM

I'm asking more along the lines of why didn't the EP notice it was was being forced to the surface and try to stuff itself back into the core? Somehow, I don't think the EP would have wanted the planet it lived in destroyed. Unless it didn't gain sentience until after it leaked to the surface...

Sorry for the misunderstanding. :(It's possible that the EP didn't know that it was inside a planet and that there were beings up there that would take advantage of itself and destroy the planet. Also possible that it was curious about the outside world, as staring at the inside of a planet might not have been fine entertainment. Or it might have had malicious intentions, as you have theorized. (Like trying to escape the planet.) Or maybe a bit of all three, or something else. As bones said, we don't know what it's motivations are.(My memory keeps telling me that there was a dialogue sequence where the EP said that it wanted to escape the planet, but I can't place it...I looked up all the refrences I could think of of the Entity talking, but I can't find it. Probably just an old rogue theory, I hope.)

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. And I'm beginning to think that it gained Sentience after it got to the surface. Because I don't know how you'd become sentient if you were isolated in the core of a planet.


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#16 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 12:40 PM

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. And I'm beginning to think that it gained Sentience after it got to the surface. Because I don't know how you'd become sentient if you were isolated in the core of a planet.

Then again, how could you gain sentience simply by leaving the core of the planet? :lol:


Edited by Chro, Mar 16 2013 - 12:40 PM.

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#17 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 03:39 PM

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. And I'm beginning to think that it gained Sentience after it got to the surface. Because I don't know how you'd become sentient if you were isolated in the core of a planet.

Then again, how could you gain sentience simply by leaving the core of the planet? :lol:

Well, once it was out, it had more interactions with the GBs, Agori, Glatorian, etc, so it might have triggered something there.


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#18 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 03:42 PM

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. And I'm beginning to think that it gained Sentience after it got to the surface. Because I don't know how you'd become sentient if you were isolated in the core of a planet.

Then again, how could you gain sentience simply by leaving the core of the planet? :lol:
Well, once it was out, it had more interactions with the GBs, Agori, Glatorian, etc, so it might have triggered something there.
Yes maybe it was already capable of being senteint but the real sentience developed by copying behavour of surface dwellers

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#19 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 03:44 PM

 

 

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. And I'm beginning to think that it gained Sentience after it got to the surface. Because I don't know how you'd become sentient if you were isolated in the core of a planet.

Then again, how could you gain sentience simply by leaving the core of the planet? :lol:
Well, once it was out, it had more interactions with the GBs, Agori, Glatorian, etc, so it might have triggered something there.
Yes maybe it was already capable of being senteint but the real sentience developed by copying behavour of surface dwellers

Yes, exactly that. Or it might not have developed sentience until the GBs placed it in the MU.


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#20 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 03:46 PM

 

 

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. And I'm beginning to think that it gained Sentience after it got to the surface. Because I don't know how you'd become sentient if you were isolated in the core of a planet.

Then again, how could you gain sentience simply by leaving the core of the planet? :lol:
Well, once it was out, it had more interactions with the GBs, Agori, Glatorian, etc, so it might have triggered something there.
Yes maybe it was already capable of being senteint but the real sentience developed by copying behavour of surface dwellers
Yes, exactly that. Or it might not have developed sentience until the GBs placed it in the MU.
It might have already started before that but reached it's full sentience somewhere around 87000 BGC is my guess.

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#21 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 03:53 PM

 

 

 

 

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. And I'm beginning to think that it gained Sentience after it got to the surface. Because I don't know how you'd become sentient if you were isolated in the core of a planet.

Then again, how could you gain sentience simply by leaving the core of the planet? :lol:
Well, once it was out, it had more interactions with the GBs, Agori, Glatorian, etc, so it might have triggered something there.
Yes maybe it was already capable of being senteint but the real sentience developed by copying behavour of surface dwellers
Yes, exactly that. Or it might not have developed sentience until the GBs placed it in the MU.
It might have already started before that but reached it's full sentience somewhere around 87000 BGC is my guess.

So, you're saying it developed more gradually?


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#22 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 16 2013 - 03:56 PM

Breaking that immense quote here, yes I think that since I assume intelligence to be too complex to "just appear"
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#23 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 01:09 AM

Don't forget the shapeshifting Rahi Krahka went through exactly that process in gaining sapience. She was basically a living mindless blob at first, as were all of her species, but as she observed over time she absorbed and memorized attributes of things and beings. Eventually she became sapient.


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#24 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 09:33 AM

Breaking that immense quote here, yes I think that since I assume intelligence to be too complex to "just appear"

Sorry about that. XD

 

That would make more sense. Another theory is that the intelligence had been developing over the years in the core and when the EP finally got to the surface of SM, it developed more rapidly then before. So it was semi-sentient when it got to the surface of the planet, but it was fully sentient by the time it left with the MU.


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#25 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 09:44 AM

Breaking that immense quote here, yes I think that since I assume intelligence to be too complex to "just appear"

Sorry about that. XD That would make more sense. Another theory is that the intelligence had been developing over the years in the core and when the EP finally got to the surface of SM, it developed more rapidly then before. So it was semi-sentient when it got to the surface of the planet, but it was fully sentient by the time it left with the MU.
While debeloping intelligence while isolated is possible I don't see that happening for the EP, IMO it started when it came in contact with other intelligent beings. Also the GB's did tests on the EP they woud've found out is was intelligent(or semi) during those.

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#26 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 09:48 AM

 

Breaking that immense quote here, yes I think that since I assume intelligence to be too complex to "just appear"

Sorry about that. XD That would make more sense. Another theory is that the intelligence had been developing over the years in the core and when the EP finally got to the surface of SM, it developed more rapidly then before. So it was semi-sentient when it got to the surface of the planet, but it was fully sentient by the time it left with the MU.
While debeloping intelligence while isolated is possible I don't see that happening for the EP, IMO it started when it came in contact with other intelligent beings. Also the GB's did tests on the EP they woud've found out is was intelligent(or semi) during those.

the first part makes sense. But I think that if it really tried, the EP could have hid it's intelligence from the GBs. 


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#27 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 09:50 AM

 

Breaking that immense quote here, yes I think that since I assume intelligence to be too complex to "just appear"

Sorry about that. XD That would make more sense. Another theory is that the intelligence had been developing over the years in the core and when the EP finally got to the surface of SM, it developed more rapidly then before. So it was semi-sentient when it got to the surface of the planet, but it was fully sentient by the time it left with the MU.
While debeloping intelligence while isolated is possible I don't see that happening for the EP, IMO it started when it came in contact with other intelligent beings. Also the GB's did tests on the EP they woud've found out is was intelligent(or semi) during those.
the first part makes sense. But I think that if it really tried, the EP could have hid it's intelligence from the GBs. 
Hiding intelligens would recuire too much intelligens for a semi-intelligent being.Woa what a sentence was that :)

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#28 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 10:13 AM

Hiding intelligens would recuire too much intelligens for a semi-intelligent being.Woa what a sentence was that :)

And what a quote was that. :P

That's true, but animals can play dead, and they are not intelligent. Who;s to say the EP didn't do the same?


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#29 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 01:21 PM

Hiding intelligens would recuire too much intelligens for a semi-intelligent being.Woa what a sentence was that :)

And what a quote was that. :P

That's true, but animals can play dead, and they are not intelligent. Who;s to say the EP didn't do the same?

But even if an animal is playing dead, you're not going to be fooled once you take a closer look. The GBs certainly delved deeper than that in their research. However, since it's more of a material than an actual being, I suppose it could've made itself inert or something upon instinct...? Or maybe the reason that the GBs couldn't have figured out its sentience early on has to do with the physics of protodermis which we still don't know for sure. (I'm sure bonesiii will have something to say about that.)


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#30 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 01:34 PM

 

Hiding intelligens would recuire too much intelligens for a semi-intelligent being.Woa what a sentence was that :)

And what a quote was that. :P

That's true, but animals can play dead, and they are not intelligent. Who;s to say the EP didn't do the same?

But even if an animal is playing dead, you're not going to be fooled once you take a closer look. The GBs certainly delved deeper than that in their research. However, since it's more of a material than an actual being, I suppose it could've made itself inert or something upon instinct...? Or maybe the reason that the GBs couldn't have figured out its sentience early on has to do with the physics of protodermis which we still don't know for sure. (I'm sure bonesiii will have something to say about that.)

 

Or we can just state it wasn't intelligent at all during those tests.


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#31 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 01:39 PM

 

 

Hiding intelligens would recuire too much intelligens for a semi-intelligent being.Woa what a sentence was that :)

And what a quote was that. :P

That's true, but animals can play dead, and they are not intelligent. Who;s to say the EP didn't do the same?

But even if an animal is playing dead, you're not going to be fooled once you take a closer look. The GBs certainly delved deeper than that in their research. However, since it's more of a material than an actual being, I suppose it could've made itself inert or something upon instinct...? Or maybe the reason that the GBs couldn't have figured out its sentience early on has to do with the physics of protodermis which we still don't know for sure. (I'm sure bonesiii will have something to say about that.)

 

Or we can just state it wasn't intelligent at all during those tests.

If you want to make things THAT simple, okay. :P


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#32 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 01:42 PM

If you want to make things THAT simple, okay. :P

Breaking that quote here.Well, I said that for the things I pointed out earlier, I never grab things out of the nothingness.

Edited by Dual Matrix, Mar 17 2013 - 01:42 PM.

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#33 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 01:44 PM

If you want to make things THAT simple, okay. :P

Breaking that quote here.Well, I said that for the things I pointed out earlier, I never grab things out of the nothingness.

If it wasn't sentient when it forced itself to the surface of the planet, how did the EP Entitiy remember it?


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#34 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 01:59 PM

If you want to make things THAT simple, okay. :P

Breaking that quote here.Well, I said that for the things I pointed out earlier, I never grab things out of the nothingness.

If it wasn't sentient when it forced itself to the surface of the planet, how did the EP Entitiy remember it?

Where did the Protodermis mention that?

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#35 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 02:10 PM

Where did the Protodermis mention that?

From fishers' post before:

"I did not choose to come here," the Entity replied. "I lived in the core of a planet, until one day a portion of my substance forced its way to the surface. It did not take long for the inhabitants of that world to discover my power, or to begin warring over it. But some of what makes up my form was taken and placed inside this universe, and so escaped before cataclysm overtook that world."


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#36 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 03:17 PM

 

 

If you want to make things THAT simple, okay. :P

Breaking that quote here.Well, I said that for the things I pointed out earlier, I never grab things out of the nothingness.

 

If it wasn't sentient when it forced itself to the surface of the planet, how did the EP Entitiy remember it?

 

Where did the Protodermis mention that?

It was in one of the books. Someone quoted it earlier in this topic.


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#37 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 03:28 PM

Not exactly a book, but an online serial:

Where did the Protodermis mention that?

From fishers' post before:

"I did not choose to come here," the Entity replied. "I lived in the core of a planet, until one day a portion of my substance forced its way to the surface. It did not take long for the inhabitants of that world to discover my power, or to begin warring over it. But some of what makes up my form was taken and placed inside this universe, and so escaped before cataclysm overtook that world."

And that someone is Chro.

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#38 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 03:37 PM

Well then I would say memory is entirely different from intellygense, If it was capable of gaining senteinse it must've had somthin which could funtion like a brain, and so remember. So it could've remembered it's leak far before it gained sentience.
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#39 Offline Watcher on the Walls

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 03:47 PM

What if it gained sentience before the Shattering but wasn't active?

Hiding intelligens would recuire too much intelligens for a semi-intelligent being.Woa what a sentence was that :)

And what a quote was that. :PThat's true, but animals can play dead, and they are not intelligent. Who;s to say the EP didn't do the same?
But even if an animal is playing dead, you're not going to be fooled once you take a closer look. The GBs certainly delved deeper than that in their research. However, since it's more of a material than an actual being, I suppose it could've made itself inert or something upon instinct...? Or maybe the reason that the GBs couldn't have figured out its sentience early on has to do with the physics of protodermis which we still don't know for sure. (I'm sure bonesiii will have something to say about that.)
Well what if it can't feel different parts of its "body" when separated?

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#40 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Mar 17 2013 - 04:47 PM

animals can play dead, and they are not intelligent

Animals are intelligent. Their intelligence does not reach up to the level of advancement we call "sapient" -- only humans do (as far as the material beings living on Earth go). In Bionicle, SM creatures and MU Rahi are intelligent, but (generally) not sapient. Yet, again, the example of Krahka shows that some creatures can go up a gradient or spectrum of intelligence as they learn more, and this might apply to the Entity. :)

 

By the way, most animals' intelligence does reach up to the level of "sentience" (self-awareness), as Greg has pointed out. Just FTR, since there's a common misconception about that.

 

Or we can just state it wasn't intelligent at all during those tests.

The two options aren't mutually exclusive. The Entity could have been at any level of intelligence at the time, but simply not have been present in those samples. Since he can move around to exist in any pool/sample/collection of EP, and apparently only exists in one at a time (though I suspect he has some kind of transcendent sensory awareness of them all).

 

If it wasn't sentient when it forced itself to the surface of the planet, how did the EP Entitiy remember it?

I don't wanna comment here on whether it was or wasn't yet, but at whatever moment you attain self-awareness (sentience), or humanlike intelligence (sapience; not sure which you actually meant), your memories of the time prior to that should still remain.

 

BTW, I would actually argue that the Entity has reached some state beyond humanlike sapience, that we could not comprehend, anymore than a sentient animal could comprehend human sapience, or a germ comprehend a sentient being. Perhaps we could call it supersapience, or transcendence or enlightenment. If mem serves, the Entity has implied this.

 

As to what that could mean as far as how it got that way, not sure. It could argue against the idea that there was a time when fully-formed EP wasn't at its full level of mental advancement. Or, it could mean that EP, once fully formed, had the capacity to become more intelligent than any being, by attaining all the good parts it could observe from all the beings and fusing them all (much as Krahka could fuse aspects of multiple powers or forms), becoming like a hivemind. Whereas beings like an Agori had much more limited "brainspace" and could only reach sapience.

 

 

 

Also, since everyone on SM was aware of the history the Entity cites in that quote, there's also the possibility that he didn't gain either knowledge or sapience until later, had no idea he was being forced up like that at the time, but later learned of it from hearing them talk. :shrugs:


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