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Does Greg Lie?


bonesiii

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takua_is.png


Every once in a while someone accusing Greg of lying. People wanna know what's gonna happen ahead of time, and sometimes there are Big Theory Debates that get everybody madly curious. What's a poor author to say when someone asks point-blank, is it true?

Recently, a member whose name won't be mentioned here said this:

Things Greg had denied time and time again were true


So Greg lied? When people PMed him asking "Is Takua Takanuva?" or the like, did he just say "no", knowing full well that he'd be caught in the lie eventually? Why would he do that?

No.

Greg has NEVER denied anything unless it actually isn't true.

What happens is, we read way too much into some of his answers. Then we spread the false rumor that he denied something. Then, when it's revealed, all those misinformed people conclude, "Greg lied! :o"

That is OUR fault. Not his.

As I put it in response to that member after PMing to ask for more detail:

-------------------------

Got your PM -- apparently you are talking about the 2006 Makuta return and the Takua becoming Takanuva false rumors. I closely followed both of those -- Greg NEVER denied those.

What he DID is ask rhetorical questions in reply -- like "Does it really make sense?" He's clever, of course -- he doesn't want to spoil the fun. ;) But people read way too much into what he says, and read answers like that as "no" when he never said that. Then we spread false rumors that he denied something -- what is he supposed to do?

If he points out that he didn't actually deny it (if he even knows we've spread the false rumor), that's basically the same as confirming it. Which would defeat the point. So he has to just be silent on it.

I myself have been guilty of this -- during the whole "Dume is Makuta" theory thing, I saw a quote where Greg pointed out a reason to think Dume couldn't be Makuta -- something to do with the Metru Rahkshi having come in from elsewhere instead of Metru Nui. Clever of him -- he planted the idea that Dume very well might not be Makuta -- but he did NOT deny it. After all, what if Makuta just ordered those Rahkshi to come in so he wouldn't have to worry about making more on location? Seems obvious in hindsight, but just about everybody assumed it amounted to a denial.

I even closed theories that said otherwise based on this. >_< But lo and behold, we were wrong -- Dume WAS Makuta, and Greg DIDN'T deny it.

-----------------------

In other words, what Greg sometimes does is answer as if he DIDN'T know either way, but is just commenting on it from the perspective of theories. When he does this, he never clearly confirms or denies -- he merely comments on how much a possibility might make sense, or not make sense, and why.


Now, it IS possible that he would deny something because at the time it wasn't planned, but later change his mind. I have seen this happen once, and he was crystal clear about it. Certainly we can't fault him for that either -- he's not a prophet. :P In fact, that very question might have been what got him thinking maybe it would be best that way. He's human.


If anyone doesn't believe me, I challenge you to prove it. Show me the quote where Greg "denied" something that was actually true (and known by Greg to be true at the time). Or if you don't have proof, tell me about what you think he lied -- chances are the real scoop was in plain sight in the theories forum. ;)



If Greg ever did lie, we would be able to show the proof, and his credibility would go down to zero. Greg knows the value of his answers being trustworthy -- he has always said that the very reason he came to BZP was to correct misinformation. Tell me, what would be the point of lying?



Should he use clever "weasel" answers? Well, maybe that's debatable, but as an aspiring author myself, I can put myself in his shoes and answer personally with a resounding yes! His job is NOT to give things away. His job is to write the story and help us enjoy it.

So as long as he is telling the truth, he's both preserving the surprise AND challenging you guys to use better thinking skills.

If Greg gives such an answer in the future, why not think more carefully about it? If you catch it, you just might be able to use it in your theory as a "he didn't deny it" piece of evidence (as long as you have other evidence that says it might be true, so it's not speculation). You could have the best theory on the issue in S&T. ;)



So let's be careful about what we claim Greg denied, and stop spreading false rumors. :)

------------------This message sponsored by:---------------------

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Yeah, Avak was trying to imply he knew stuff about the BoM, in case the Inika captured him.

 

Also, no one asked Greg if Avak was telling the truth.

Thanks for clearing that one up.

 

Didn't he somehow lie about how Lesovikk's team had died? His team died because of Zyglak, but in that Olisi vision his team actually was attacked by an acid cloud. Many people thought that this might be a wrong fact in this vision that might help Lesovikk to get out of the vision by realizing his team was killed by Zyglak, not by that acid cloud; however, their theory was crushed by Greg editing the BS01 Lesovikk article to saying it really was an acid cloud. Later we found out that those people's theory was right, after all...

Now, this one I didn't follow, so I'm not sure. I see the edit you're talking about. I highly doubt he lied, as all the other accusations have turned out to be false. :P I remember that Greg said he changed his mind, although I don't remember from what to what.

 

I thought the story said was that L saw it as an acid cloud, then Greg changed his mind and had it really be Zyglak, so L could realize his vision wasn't real and break out of it. Am I correct?

 

 

 

 

Whaaat? Of course Greg lies! Isn't his purpose to deliberately mislead us and keep us from ever knowing the true story??

I couldn't tell if you were joking. You were joking here, right? :unsure:

 

His purpose is to correct misinformation, so to purposefully make his own misinformation would be counterproductive. :) His purpose is also NOT to reveal the story early, but that's different...

 

*hopes he's not ruining a joke :P*

 

Oh, there's also some VERY interesting things lurking around back there. It's amazing how much has changed and how many things have been re-envisioned or scrapped without us being any the wiser.

Do you have any examples? What to you mean by scrapped? Talking about things like the Turaga's legend in 2001 or suchnot?

 

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. :)

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GregF also said that he likes to take what we think we know and turn it on us. I'm not saying taking confirmed truths and changing what he said was coming up, but taking theories that he may or may not have been quoted in and doing something completely opposite yet still in canon and still not a lie by him.

Clever writer we have on our site, don't we, isn't he?

 

-CF

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Whaaat? Of course Greg lies! Isn't his purpose to deliberately mislead us and keep us from ever knowing the true story??

I couldn't tell if you were joking. You were joking here, right? :unsure:

Worry not, it was indeed a joke. :P

 

Oh, there's also some VERY interesting things lurking around back there. It's amazing how much has changed and how many things have been re-envisioned or scrapped without us being any the wiser.

Do you have any examples? What to you mean by scrapped? Talking about things like the Turaga's legend in 2001 or suchnot?

 

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. :)

Oh, it would take me a long time to find actual examples. I read through a lot. I do remember answers saying that Matoran eat, (which they can but don't, they absorb energy), Turaga have no elemental powers, Toa discharging their elemental powers any way but through their tools is extremely dangerous, masks being virtually indestructible (he stated something to the effect of Makuta would need certain tools or equipment to destroy a mask), the Matoran's '03 forms being what they looked like before they shrunk and Takanuva having no physically harming power. I think there was something about Mata Nui and Makuta being considered Great Beings, too. Mostly smaller things that hadn't been explored enough in the story to becomes fixed yet.

 

There were also things like there only being 12 Matoran in each Koro, but that was just Greg repeating what he'd been told by the story team at the time.

 

Oh, here's one answer I will quote that I found particularly amusing.

2.Before, you told me that Takua's name would only change to Takua Nuva if he was in protodermis. I think you misunderstood me. My question was " You said Takua's name was not going to change, and if he is the ToL, his name would have to change to Takanuva, since that is the ToL's name."

 

I think you are splitting hairs. I said Takua's name is not going to change, and that is true. But if he were to become a Toa, the name change would be the least of it.. everything about him would change, and he really wouldn't be Takua anymore, would he?

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Worry not, it was indeed a joke.

*Lols*

I do remember answers saying that Matoran eat, (which they can but don't, they absorb energy), Turaga have no elemental powers, Toa discharging their elemental powers any way but through their tools is extremely dangerous, masks being virtually indestructible (he stated something to the effect of Makuta would need certain tools or equipment to destroy a mask), the Matoran's '03 forms being what they looked like before they shrunk and Takanuva having no physically harming power. I think there was something about Mata Nui and Makuta being considered Great Beings, too. Mostly smaller things that hadn't been explored enough in the story to becomes fixed yet.

Yeah, I remember all of those too. Yeah, mostly just changes of plans. Although, most of those are still partly true. Elements without tools being dangerous IS true, in fact. Just maybe not "extremely" so, I suppose.

 

 

2.Before, you told me that Takua's name would only change to Takua Nuva if he was in protodermis. I think you misunderstood me. My question was " You said Takua's name was not going to change, and if he is the ToL, his name would have to change to Takanuva, since that is the ToL's name."

 

I think you are splitting hairs. I said Takua's name is not going to change, and that is true. But if he were to become a Toa, the name change would be the least of it.. everything about him would change, and he really wouldn't be Takua anymore, would he?

Hee hee. Nice. Yeah, that's a great example of his skillful "weasel" answers. That might be the very quote that started that rumor...

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But didn't Greg specifically say Matoro was not the destined wearer of the Ignika? One of my theories was closed over it, along with many others.

Well, I looked up your topic, and I don't see a quote confirming that. All I ever heard him say at the time was that Matoro was the destined bearer, but it wasn't known who the wearer was.

 

From the official Ignika topic:

Although Matoro can carry the mask without consequences, he may not be the destined wearer.

- Confirmed: He is. Look inder the curses section.

If Greg had ever said that Matoro wasn't the destined wearer, that note would have been inaccurate and instead would have said he isn't, and would likely comment on the inconsistency if it had existed once he was revealed to be the wearer. ;)

 

So sounds like another misunderstanding/false rumor.

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Thank you.

 

There has been many times when I (or someone else) has quoted/paraphrased Greg to disprove a theory, and the theorist responds with "Well Greg has lied before."

 

It brings to mind a quote of his: "Unfortunately, 'Greg never said it's not true' does not count as evidence of a theory. I have never said Mata Nui isn't made of dark chocolate, either -- that doesn't mean he is."

 

MATA NUI OMNOMNOM

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I haven't followed the OGD enough to know if Greg ever lied about anything.

 

Even if he did say something that was false, it could be a mistake. If you had to answer tens of thousands of questions, would you slip up? I bet I would.

 

And that Greg is a liar does not fit in with what I have observed of his character. And if he did lie --which I doubt-- the evidence is there somewhere.

 

Anyone who said Greg lied should really prove it, or apologize, IMO.

 

 

-?

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I've never payed close enough attention to know if he's lied or not. But I know he's probably misguided us many times... the Takua / Takanuva thing, the "Makuta isn't in the 04 storyline" deal, probably some more that I can't think of...

 

And aren't there a few times when he messed up something. Like, in Bionicle Legends 1, he wrote Avak saying he was given his powers from the BoM, but if you look at BS01, they say he was lying. LYING!

 

I have no idea where I was going there.

 

Anyway, interesting entry, as always, Bonesiii.

 

:music:

Actually Avak wasn't lying there. He did get his powers from the BoM (or at least a few). Didn't Spiriah experiment on Skakdi and that's what got him kicked out of the Brotherhood? He was only partially lying.

 

;)

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Couple of quick points here --

 

-- I have no doubt all the "can't answer its" and the "weasel word" answers (which I freely admit to) drive people crazy sometimes. But bluntly, if you ask me direct questions about things I am not allowed to disclose, I have only two choices -- not answer it or dodge the question. If I give you a direct answer, I will be asked not to come here anymore by my bosses.

 

-- When presented with theories, a lot of times my answer amounts to this -- you have no evidence for what you are suggesting. Does that mean the theory is WRONG? No, and I didn't say it was. I challenged the person to give me evidence, and nine times out of ten, either they can't or their evidence is based on wishful thinking or on misinterpretation, which I point out. Again, I don't say the THEORY is wrong -- I simply point out they misinterpreted the evidence. They then jump to the conclusion that the theory is wrong.

 

Now there WERE people this year who totally guessed the end of 2008 as early as last summer -- should I have come on here and confirmed that and ruined the end of the story for all of you? What sense would that make?

 

-- The whole Takua-Takanuva thing was a challenge, because the answer was out there already and my job was to kick up dust. I couldn't flat-out deny it, but I had to sow doubt about the story without actually saying "no" or else the whole movie would get blown. My two options were to handle it as I did or simply stop coming here until the movie came out.

 

-- Some things I say prove to be wrong, simply because I am mistaken. For example, I gave a lot of answers based on what the story bibles said about Mata Nui and the island of Mata Nui -- a relationship that ended up being somewhat different when the actual CGI got made in 2008. Was I lying all that time? No. I was working based on the best info I had, which then got changed in Denmark this year. I have no control over that.

 

-- If you are concerned/disappointed about the quality of my answers, the simple solution is -- don't ask me about things you know I can't answer. It doesn't take a genius to know that if the nature of Mata Nui has been a secret for eight years, I can't just give it away on a website when somebody asks. Every year, I start getting questions about the next year by July or so, as if people reasonably expect I can give info away that early ... I can't. I'm not allowed to. Simple as that.

 

If, on the other hand, you are one of those people who think I come on here to lie to you, well, why are you wasting your time PMing me if you feel that way?

 

-- Let me reiterate -- I CANNOT GIVE YOU DIRECT AND CLEAR ANSWERS TO SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS. I am on here with the permission of LEGO Company and the BIONICLE team, and I have to respect that and respect corporate policies regarding confidentiality. If I don't, I will at best be asked not to come on here and answer questions anymore. I don't think anyone will benefit from that.

 

Basically, if I don't answer your question or I give a very ambiguous answer, it is because you have put me in a position where I cannot do anything else and still honor my obligations to the story team and my employer.

 

Greg

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

While he may not have actually lied, at least 20 people must have theorized Mata Nui was the island, he must have said no at least once. It's nothing against him--he just has to lie. So, in dire circumstances, he has lied.

He isn't the island. How would that be a lie? I followed that one closely too -- about the only thing Greg never gave us a yes or no answer on for that one was "is he the Matoran Universe?" -- which he is. :)

 

Far as I know, nobody ever even asked if his face was just beneath the island, as the online movie showed. People came soooo close, even asking if the island was his face -- but it ISN'T his face. The island was sort of like a mask over his face (ironically, since that's where we first learned of masks! ^_^).

 

No, he has NOT lied. Again, doing so just once would defeat the purpose, so how would it help in "dire circumstances"? We would have to stop placing any value on Greg's confirmation or denial entirely. Greg knows full well that would be foolish. He wasn't born yesterday.

 

I appreciate it being brought up, though.

 

Yeah, many people theorized that, even going so far as to....

 

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Drawing out faces onto the map of the island Mata Nui, showing how the different rivers, volcanoes, etc. could make a face. They were so unbelieveably close, but I think that even if someone had guessed that Mata Nui's face was under the island, they wouln't have been much or any solid proof toward that theory.
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I have seen Greg lie once. Back in the day he confirmed to some guy that the TWTFTW was in fact the UC. Then he took it all back and it got covered up and hushed up and he lied about it. I'd give you guys proof but the topic in question got deleted ;)

 

Though I dont think this is really what you meant by when peopole say Greg lies :P

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I have seen Greg lie once. Back in the day he confirmed to some guy that the TWTFTW was in fact the UC. Then he took it all back and it got covered up and hushed up and he lied about it. I'd give you guys proof but the topic in question got deleted ;)

 

Though I dont think this is really what you meant by when peopole say Greg lies :P

Not sure if you are being serious or not. In all seriousness, what do you mean by "and he lied about it"? As in, literally? How so?

 

I have nothing against covering up a mistaken leak, or a revelation he decides shouldn't be revealed yet. Lying about it would go too far. So please try to be clear about what you recall happening. :)

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