masterchirox580

On 2/3/2021 at 8:54 AM, Canama said:

 

they're getting smaller and more insular all the time. the days in the mid-aughts where you could come on bzp and see like 800 people online? that's gone forever and we've replaced it with twitter and reddit, which are both awful sites that i hate but continue to use because i've become addicted to content and they're the only place i can get my fix anymore

  

I completely agree. Reddit rewards conformity through its user curated post system based on points. The communities will always upvote posts that confirm their biases the hardest. This in turn leads to a stifled environment in which dynamic conversation no longer occurs. Even the old Lego message boards had more freedom of expression (and that required mod approval for every post). People as recently as the early 2010s used to bash on fandoms for having constant arguments which could sometimes become very aggressive. But honestly, I miss that. I would much rather be insulted every day on the internet if it meant I could hear a discussion between multiple people with multiple different opinions. Simply put I will always prefer environments like BZP because here you aren't rewarded for conforming nor are you punished for not conforming. It's an equal playing field. 

8 hours ago, Canama said:

everything that was ever interesting and good about the internet is on its way out

The internet has been dying since 2013. Now we're stuck in this increasingly colourless, centralised, and curated web that is run by only a few companies. 

When it comes to ninjago I'm generally indifferent towards it. That is I don't think about it all that much as I was maybe (depending on your definition) just barely in its target audience at the time it came out. As such I never formed a bond of any kind towards it. That being said I did collect the spinners (I'm a sucker for collectables) and did in fact watch the first two seasons of its TV show. Asking someone like me this question honestly isn't very insightful due to the fact that virtually all followers of the bionicle franchise are now adults and as such were never really in the age range for ninjago to have an impact. So of course indifference is going to be your typical response. That being said I will offer my own critique of the franchise.

On top of the criticisms already stated and the general  impact it has had on the Lego company ninjago has always felt very.... artificial to me. And what do I mean by artifical? Well in the sense that ninjago lacks a cohesive aesthetic and vision. Ninjago always felt to me like something made up of various marketing surveys rather than a visionary with an idea. I mean look at its first year. In 2011 it was Ninjas vs Skeletons. At the time when images of the then new theme leaked I and many others found it... confusing. Many of us expected a theme based more in Japanese mythology rather than a weird combination of some Japanese Elements with more European style mythology. It just felt strange. And then you got to its second year which consisted of Ninjas vs snake people which once again felt... odd. And this has been consistent throughout its run. It just feels like a combination of everything the stereotypical boy likes. Ninjas, pirates, robots (etc) all in one theme. And whilst sure it is great from a marketing perspective it isn't that great from the perspective of someone like me. Someone who had bionicle from a very young age. Bionicle by contrast was its own thing through and through. It didn't feel like a reaction to marketing surveys. Where instead of crudely appeling to a stereotype of what the manufacturers think you like and pandering to it, bionicle did the opposite. Bionicle was an original story set in its own unique universe which appealled to you through cool design, character, aesthetics, and story. It shaped you and not the other way around. Which also brings me back to aesthetic. With Ninjago characters they have such a wide array of looks and designs with so many different design philosophies going about that it's hard to believe it takes place in one single universe. But with bionicle you can always see it taking place in one single universe. Place a Matoran from Mahri Nui next to a Matoran from Ta-Koro and you can see the two existing side by side with each other. You could see them sharing a singular world. This added to the collectibility feel because it allowed you to put all the characters together on one shelf and have it feel like they were all related in some way. It humanised it in a weird way.

Ninjago just feels more cynical in comparison to bionicle. It doesn't have the same emotion or passion attached to it. And as such, I feel no passion or emotion towards ninjago. 

Biotube? That died in 2013 last time I checked. With the exception of TTV all the major bionicle channels (at least major relative to the size of the community) either moved on or went defunct a long time ago. By 2013 Hero Factory had gotten stale and thus everyone started jumping ship. 2015 lead to a brief revival that lasted around a few months before those people moved on with their lives (again). And Jaller three is certainly a sight to behold. I started watching that in early 2009 I think. It's nice to know he didn't forget in the ten years since then. Watching it now is a very nostalgic moment. The humour hasn't changed at all. Everything is how it was. And nothing comes next. Biotube is already dead. The few remaining people will grow older and with time will gain new priorities which will gradually overtake bionicle.

For the children of the 2010s I have no doubt ninjago will be their bionicle. Something they'll look back on fondly in a decade or so. For me however as someone who was only somewhat invested in ninjago during its first year it really has no significance to me. Nostalgia is a powerful thing. Overall I echo Kek's views on the matter. Ninjago (at least last time I watched it in 2012) is rather flimsily written and doesn't have much merit on its own. The sets seem to have fallen into the same trap bionicle did in which they now follow a very identifiable pattern. Jet plane, motorcycle, off-road vehicle, a mech, a dragon, small shrine and large temple with vaguely Japanese qualities. A line that was once innovative in its earlier days has since fallen into repetition and as we saw with bionicle this normally doesn't bode well for lego themes. Overall ninjago just doesn't mean anything to me and I won't have a strong reaction whenever it gets discontinued. 

21 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

 

Ninjago, on the other hand, is a systeme them that puts the sets before the story in every way. The media focus is mostly in the cartoon, with books and comics receiving minimal focus by comparison. There's also that (incredibly inconsistent) movie that I have to actively try to remember because it's like my brain wants me to forget it. Ninjago was conceived to be another experimental, 3-year theme, but it was hauled out of the grave no sooner than it entered it and brought back to continue forever and ever without end. Right now, it seems to just be where new possible gimmicks for an action-adventure theme are dumped off. I mean, look at the new "video game" gimmick--that could and SHOULD have been its own theme; it has limitless potential. But no, Lego's cash cow needs more fuel because they're understandably running out of ideas. Ninjago began in 2011; 2 years later, we got Chima; 3 years after that, Nexo Knights. All 3 were experimental action-adventure lines that, while they all had lousy stories, were at least new and creative in some way. 4 years after NK, there haven't been any new themes of that nature. Hidden Side, maybe? But that's a different beast entirely and experiments in a radically different way, much as I have to commend it for truly thinking outside of the box. Elves, perhaps? But that aims for a wholly different audience and has less focus on action for the first year, and sorta evolved into another conflict-based theme; and it died alongside NK. Still, we're never gonna get another crazy, creative action-adventure theme so long as Ninjago is hogging the scene; at least if recent trends continue.

 

I wouldn't say it's ninjago specifically that's caused this to happen. This is largely down to Lego's strategy of focusing on licenced themes rather than new lines. In the past bionicle used to take up a huge part of the line up in a given year but it never stopped new themes coming to the forefront. The problem is that the licenced themes are taking up what would otherwise be the space for new themes. In a way Lego has fallen into their pre-1999 mindset of sticking with a proven formula and ceasing to produce diverse lines of in-house and innovative themes that can push the envelope. For example back in the 2000s when Lego released a line it would always be dedicated to a specific type of set. Knights Kingdom and castle were obviously medieval fantasy themed. Exo-Force was the theme for mechs (with anime styling). And you could get themes like Mars mission for spacecrafts (that weren't star wars). Each one would offer consumers a diverse range in each type of set. You had plenty of mechs and spacecrafts to choose from. However since then the philosophy has changed. Look at Nexo-Knights. Instead of being a dedicated medieval fantasy theme it instead decided to incorporate tanks, sci-fi future tech, and mechs all into one with a medieval fantasy theme. The goal seems to be to just sandwich as many popular themes as possible into one. This is part of what I think stifles their innovation. Instead of having a whole range of mechs for kids to choose from they end up releasing maybe two in one given theme and thus not allowing for much experimentation to be done as there is simply no room in the line up.

6 hours ago, Master Inika said:

(Age 23 here.) I can only imagine what it would be like to be 11 when the original line ended. I thought for the longest time I was the only one feeling like this. Especially what you said about the sets deteriorating, I feel that so hard. I miss being able to watch and enjoy the films like I used to.

I have found a temporary fix: for whatever reason, the Pokemon movies very much have the same "feel" to them as the Miramax trilogy, and there are like twenty of those.

At the time it wasn't as hard as you'd think. I've been into the series since circa 2002/2003 (very young) and I remember back in 2009 I was starting to feel disillusioned with the series. I remember sitting there looking at the new vehicle sets asking "is that what I got into all those years ago?". Whilst I was upset when it was announced to end it didn't initially have that deep an impact on me. It wasn't until years later and as I grew older I really appreciated it. And I didn't watch the pokemon films that much growing up so I'll maybe give it a try.

As a life long fan I can see where you're coming from. Nowadays the sets just sit around in boxes and are deteriorating in condition. There really isn't a whole lot to look into now and the community has grown up. I'm one of its youngest members and I'm 20 now. When I get out the sets it feels like more of a memory and less like an actual thing that's still here. The sets feel almost alien to me now and project more memories of a feeling less than an actual feeling. It's the same for the movies and comics. I can't even watch the films anymore because I watched them so many times that I could probably write down the complete script, on my own, in less than an hour. And that's not mentioning the aspects that did age poorly. A lot of the online flash games were badly programmed and downright frustrating. It's draped in that 2000s edge which is once again only good in my memories. All of this makes for memories which I simply cannot recreate. I would say this is a mixture of growing up and over exposure. So much exposure that your brain just doesn't get that dopamine hit anymore. Growing up in that consumer products just cannot cause that same reaction it did when I was younger. I think the only way to re-experience it is to go back in time. And unfortunately that is impossible.

One of the massive issues with the villain waves was that they stopped basing them on animals. Many of the villains of the original bionicle universe had an animal theme to them. Rahi, Rahkshi, Visorak, Barraki, Phantoka and Mistika. All of these had an animal theme to them. But what separated them was the fact that they felt distinct enough from the animals they were based on to make them interesting. What would stick out more in your mind? Sort of snake people (rahkshi) or just straight up skeletons? The reason it was great the way they did them was that it allowed for a world that felt separate from our own. This kind of creativity was common with the old technic system. This was sort of attempted in the early wave of G2 but it wasn't really that distinct from actual spiders and also was quickly discarded as an idea by the time of the second wave of that year. Why did this happen? It's because CCBS is not designed for animals which is one of it's greatest flaws. This can be highlighted in the 2011 hero factory savage planet wave. When animals were successfully created they required much larger piece counts (scorpio comes to mind) to feel even somewhat satisfying as figures. After 2011 not much attention was given to quadrupeds (creatures which walk on four legs) because CCBS with it's standardised piece system simply doesn't allow for cheap quadrupeds or textured and shaped moulding. Look at lord of skull spiders. That was a mostly technic set. CCBS is part of what the problem is. Whilst it has brought many great innovations I feel it has unfortunately standardised constraction to the point where the creativity has been largely sucked out of it. At least in terms of retail sets. Lego simply needed to find a way to incorporate quadrupeds and distinctly moulded pieces into the sets but they never did that.

This is a very interesting move on Faber's part. Although I do wonder what the project will ultimately create. Is it possible this is another case similar to minecraft where Lego consulted the public for advice regarding the sets?

Well.... That was unexpected. Once again I was wrong. Bionicle is looking likely to return. The excitement isn't quite as high for me as in 2015 but with Christian Faber on board I am definitely going to support the new theme. This has the potential to fix everything wrong with G2. The fact the logo is being shared suggests the release is in the near future (2020). Otherwise this would not be allowed to be shared with the public. I'd say we can expect some more info by September at the latest.

If the comments about G2 just selling average are true then it pushes my attitude toward Gen 3 from a "hard no" to "well I guess it's possible". However with the hiatus of constraction it wouldn't make sense for Lego to try bionicle again unless the constraction market picks up. That or they try to revive constraction with another attempt at bionicle. If G3 has been in development since 2016 then that would mean it's been in development for 3 years. I know Lego friends was in development for 4 years and that is the longest time for a Lego theme to hit the market to my knowledge. so if that is happening then we should expect a 2020 release date. However that is a big "if". 

I completely forgot that I started this thread. This feels weird.

I'd say Lego have had comedic themes for quite some time. A good example would be the first Lego Island game which had a very comical style to it. However throughout the 2000s this was the exception rather than the norm. Obviously bionicle took itself very seriously as did other notable themes such as exo-force and Knights Kingdom. Other themes such as Mars Mission and castle had a neutral tone where the source material was neither edgy nor comedic. I'd say Lego became more comedic during 2010 with the minifigures line and hero factory and seems to have stayed the same since. My theory as to why this was is down to the change in the perception of childhood. Let me explain. Apparently during the height of Bionicle's popularity Lego intentionally made the themes edgier so that they would appeal to older buyers. This was part of a pretty sophisticated strategy. Lego knew that if older kids were buying their products it would make the sets seem cooler to the younger audience and thus widening their age demographic. However in the 2010s there has been a trend of kids getting out of the market for these products at earlier ages. Nowadays the general consensus is that childhood cuts off at age 12 and in some cases as early as age 10. So I believe what Lego did was change their strategy as less and less older kids were buying their products and thus making the whole "edgy" marketing tactic obsolete. So I think they made the tone of their stories softer in order to appeal to that younger demographic head on and forget about appealing through the coolness factor. Remember though this is just my theory on why this change likely occurred and nothing I have said is concrete. 

I would amend that to "no Technic-based constraction figures". While not what we typically think of as Constraction, there is a line of brick-built, articulated Minecraft figures releasing next year that arguably qualify as buildable action figures.

 

I wouldn't necessarily declare Technic-based constraction dead just yet (since there's always the chance of a renewal, even as soon as the summer of 2019) but it does certainly look more dire for the genre than it has in a long time. Innovations like Mixel joints that make System-based articulated figures more feasible at a wide range of price points may well have rendered systems like the CCBS (which, as a Technic-based system, is almost a subsystem of a subsystem) too niche to continue to devote full product lines to. And unlike in the late '90s/early '00s, there's no immediate need to try to force Technic-based Constraction to work for them—not when Lego's audience continues to expand in other areas with boys, girls, kids and adults alike.

Oh yeah I saw those. They kinda remind me of the old knights kingdom action figures. Considering that there is only three of them I think they're supposed to be an experimental product. Maybe it is the future of constraction. I guess it would make sense from an economic standpoint (I think those sets are pretty cheap) but it does feel like a downgrade what with the limited arm articulation. Maybe new moulds will be created to make them more flexible. Either way I won't be buying it. 

2019 will soon be here and there appears to be no sign of a new line of constraction figures. Do any of you think they will see a return or is it simply over for the genre? This is the first time in 20 years that Lego have not released constraction figures. 

I mean I guess it would depend on how you define childhood. General consensus nowadays seems to be that kids stop being kids between the ages of 10 and 12. So that would probably leave it at alien conquest (pretty cool line). And trust me there is no such thing as too young to get into something. I got into bionicle somewhere between the ages of 3 and 4 and I know I wasn't the only one like this. 

Great to see this. Lego island was one of the earliest games I remember playing. Nice to see people still remember it and want it to live on. It just had so much more personality than modern Lego games.

Hey there people! I have a number of bionicle gen 2 sets to sell off.

First we will start with what's left of my 2016 collection:

Gali - uniter of water - £10

Lewa - uniter of jungle - £10

Akida - creature of water - £6

Uxar - creature of jungle - £6

As a special offer if you buy a toa with their corresponding creature I will lower the price of the creature to £4.

And now the 2015 collection:

Tahu - master of fire - £14

Kopaka - master of ice - £14

Onua - master of earth - £14

Lewa - master of jungle - £11

Gali - master of water - £11

Pohatu - master of stone - £11

Protector of fire - £6

Protector of earth £6

Protector of water - £6

Protector of jungle - £6

Protector of stone - £6

Protector of ice - £6

As another special offer if you buy a toa with corresponding protector you get the protector for £5

Skull scorpio - £8

Skull warrior - £8

Skull basher - £8

Skull slicer - £8

Mask maker v skull grinder - £22

Please PM me if you are interested.

Worth noting that part of the reason for "greeters" at stores, besides making the customer feel welcome, is to discourage theft. People are less likely to try and sneak off with unpurchased product if they know they have the employees' attention from the moment they enter the store.

 

Never realized this phenomenon was not common in the UK… certainly when I went to Hamley's in London this past January, I was greeted by employees as soon as I entered the store, but perhaps this is part of that store's premium experience (or perhaps because I stood out as a foreigner/tourist they thought I'd need some guidance on how to find things in the store).

 

I definitely wouldn't interpret this as any kind of desperation for sales. It's just the way things often are over here.

I don't want to name the store (I don't want anyone losing their jobs). But it was in a major tourist area. They talked to me with this strange enthusiastic and higher than usual tone of voice that I had never heard prior to that day. It wasn't the casual tone that you might hear if the store is in a very enclosed space.

As an American I can say we get creepy out by the happy treatment just like everybody else.

We're just use to it because it is ingrained in our culture.

 

To answer your question about if there desperate for sales I would guess no. Basically the "customer is king" attitude steams from the US extreme capitalism mindset of maximising profits even if your making a good profit.

 

I would guess this is the case.

I do find it odd this did happend in England though.

Yeah I just couldn't think of any other reason. None of the other stores did this. No stores where kids would go would do this. There was definitely something off about that store. Thing is I have no idea how long they've been doing this. I went there once in 2011 and this was first (and probably last) visit in 7 years. I just find it strange that this starts right as Lego's earnings go down.

So I went on a trip today and saw the Lego store in a shopping mall. I went to this same store back in 2011 and I thought I would go in there and look at the prices and have a quick browse. Except this was different. Normally speaking in Britain when you enter a store you will normally enter with no contact from the employees. You will simply walk in and start looking in the isles. The employees will only approach you if you've been in the same isle for a while or if you ask them. It was like this when I went to the same store in 2011. I went in, browsed in silence, found what I wanted and took it to the cashier (with some small talk). However when I went in this time there was a guy at the entrance to greet you. I thought this was a bit odd but I shrugged it off. So I looked around for a few minutes until I got to the star wars section. I looked at the constraction figures a bit until one of the employees approached me and very enthusiastically (either these people were told to act or they REALLY enjoyed their jobs) asked me about what sets I was interested in. What was interesting was that when I mentioned I liked the buildable action figures she pointed at the brickheadz. The cheapest option available. When I mentioned I was just browsing and had no money they all quickly abandoned me. 

From what I hear this is apparently what American store clerks are like. Where they greet you at the doors and ask if you need anything all the time. Apparently it's referred to as "the customer is king". I'm sure Americans might find it strange that I found this disturbing but you have to understand I've been in many places on this island and ever since I was born I've gotten the same treatment. I browse in silence and if I see something I want I buy it. Maybe on occasion talk to the employees a little and go about my day. I was honestly so disturbed by the experience I went and checked other toy stores in the same area to see if it was a regional thing. I didn't receive this kind of treatment. I was allowed to browse and leave in peace. I found it simply uncomfortable.

Which also makes me wonder if they did this because they're desperate for sales. That's the only way I could make sense of it. Go with this weird enthusiasm and tone of voice in the hopes of driving sales. Seeing as I got the normal treatment when I was in this store in 2011. It makes me kinda worry about Lego's financial state if it got to this point.

Maybe I am looking way too deeply into it. But in this country that sort of stuff doesn't really happen. I never had this kind of shopping experience until today.

Note: This is probably going to be a long one so if you don't want to read a long personal anecdote about my relationship with Lego then you might want to click off.

Hello there folks. So back in 2013 I entered what some call a dark age. Basically where I all but gave up on Lego. I started rapidly losing interest in the stuff around 2012 when I was 13 years old. I simply couldn't find myself getting into any in-house Lego themes so I exclusively bought licensed stuff. Then the following year I gave up on licensed and called it quits with bricks. I did buy the bionicle reboot but that was the only thing I would buy labelled Lego.

My fascination with the products this company produced goes back to my very earliest childhood at age 3 and a half with bionicle. I remember I did this because my sister and cousin were big into it and me being the youngest of course I would follow them. In the years to follow my interest and dedication to the stuff would outlast their's. One thing I always dreamed of was having a complete collection of bionicle sets. A whole year's worth of sets that I could display on a desk somewhere. Of course this never happened. But back then it was all I dreamed of. Eventually I did get to a point where I would be able to complete sub sects of a wave (E.G all six toa) but of course never a complete year's wave. Of course over time as I started to gain interest in other themes this obsession with collection started to become.... a little bit unhealthy. I would dedicate all money I got from my parents (they're split up so I got money from both) to a single theme so I could have a complete collection. I would actively not buy other themes (even if I really liked the look of a certain set) just so I could dedicate all my time and money to building up a single collection. This was a slow progression over time. From focusing on certain themes over others to outright denying other themes. 

This eventually lead me to a brick wall (no pun intended) in the early 2010s. The wave sizes and price points got too large for me to be able to form a collection. By 2013 it was pretty much impossible to form a collection. And it was around that time that I dropped out. For the past few years I simply told myself this was due to Lego products simply not interesting me anymore. That they were simply appealing to a different audience now and that I should just move on. But thing is I never stopped checking websites and looking at upcoming sets. I'd actively look at certain sets (such as that Nexo knights tank castle) with a feeling of want. But seeing the price point and knowing I couldn't pair it up with something to match it made me just ignore it and forget about it. However recently the unexpected happened. The sets have got my interest and I'm thinking about buying one or two. I'll see where it goes (won't buy till August anyway) but it legit has made me think about purchasing a Lego set over thirty pounds again. Now that I think I understand what happened I think I can control it this time. But then I might just drop interest in the purchase in a month's time (who knows).

I'm wondering if anyone else had a similar experience and if this is what it was like to get out of the dark age?

You're thinking of Glatorian Arena.

Guess it must have been. Must have gotten mixed up in my memory. The Lego website made loads of use of flash up until 2011 I believe. Good times those were.

So I remember 10 years ago (man it's been that long already) the 2008 version of the bionicle website went live. And with it the battle for power game. Thing is I always remember having to download unity web player in order to play it. However when I played it on biomediaproject it says it's running on flash. So I'm guessing I must have had to download unity web player for something else. Does anyone know if any of the bionicle web games ran on unity player?

So the development wasn't too troubled. It just sounds like the upper management was being bad to the employees. I mean outside of not paying them the 9/11 excuse seems pretty weird to say the least. It sounds like they lied to the employees to spare them knowing Lego just didn't care about their work. This game actually looked decent and seems like something I would have played a lot as a kid.