JrMasterModelBuilder

IMPORTANT: Don't add me to the drawing. Just wanted to add some insight on DVD region locking.

DVD's may be region locked, but that does not mean people in other countries can't play them. VLC is a region independant player for computers, and it is possible to buy players for different regions.

Region free Blu-Ray discs exist but I've never of a region free DVD. They may exist, though.

Unencrypted DVD's are region free. The are almost never published commercially however, even though DVD CSS was broken ages ago.

I don't see how Lego is limiting themselves by not supporting your clubs.

To be honest, I'm not sure where you drew the idea that LEGO is somehow limiting themselves by not supporting some clubs. I'm mean really, what does that even mean???

No, that's what you said, so don't try making a masterpiece of flawed logic and blaming it on me.

 

So let me ask you: To be honest, I'm not sure where you drew the idea that LEGO is somehow limiting themselves by not supporting some clubs. I mean really, what does that even mean???

*Raises an eyebrow*

So let me get this straight. We both agree that whatever you think I said makes no sense (not even grammatically), but you still ask me what I meant by it? I really think you must have misunderstood something (despite my explanation).

Let us recap:

If you support HF, yes it will increase the likelihood of Bionicle's return.

 

 

But if you don't support it and keep shoving your clubs into Lego's face...

 

...yeah, you can pretty much kiss any chance of success in bringing back Bionicle goodbye.

So absolute. You really think LEGO limits themselves that way?

You make these absolute statements that LEGO will do this if we do [this]. Not even LEGO has gone around making such definative proclamations. Unless you happen to be in complete control of The LEGO Group (unlikely ) these are just educated guesses at best. I'm sure LEGO knows better than to make such absolute decisions as "If Hero Factory doesn't sell well, we'll never go back to BIONICLE.". Why? Because future interest can be difficult to predict and BIONICLE represented a multi-million dollar share of LEGO's profits.

 

As Greg Farshtey stated, continued interest in BIONICLE is necessary for LEGO to consider bringing BIONICLE back. As it so happens, clubs for BIONICLE's return, show continued interest.

Again, no, you're just adding subtext into my words that don't exist. I never said that Lego will, do anything; I'm saying that it is very likely to happen.

"If you support HF, yes it will increase the likelihood of Bionicle's return."

How do you know it that supporting Hero Factory won't decrease the likelihood of BIONICLE's return? I would say that supporting Hero Factory "may" increase the likelihood of BIONICLE's return, but not even that is certain.

And tell me, what's wrong with educated guesses?

Nothing, given the right context. Why do you ask?

Additionally, read this press release. They mentioned high profits, yeah?

Not that I can see. Unless you mean this press release (which I have read before ). As you can see, they don't meantion Hero Factory at all. Just that profits increased by 5.9% by the end of 2010. It vaguely attributes the increase in sales to LEGO City, LEGO DUPLO, LEGO Star Wars, the new board games, and LEGO Universe to a limited extent.

In response to your last part, let me provide a quote from Laughin'Man:

 

They're completely missing the point of the Greg quote they continually use - "If Star Trek fans had stopped talking about it, it never would've come back", to paraphrase - which is simply to keep discussion and interest in BIONICLE alive, not to go on some silly mission.

Not sure why we should take Laughin'Man's interpretation this. We have Greg's:

. . . What I am actually implying is that if there is no fan sentiment being expressed for it at all, it definitely WON'T come back. The only reason LEGO would have to bring it back down the line is if they feel there is an audience out there for it. If the fan community just dries up and blows away, then the prevailing notion will be that no one is interested enough to support its return.

The only ones who are limiting themselves are you guys, because all you're doing is making petitions as if it were the only way to bring back Bionicle. There's other ways too y'know, like supporting HF.

Curious that you feal this way. I, for one, do not believe that making petitions is the only way to bring back BIONICLE. I do, however, believe it is a way. A contributing factor. A way of showing continued interest.

 

BTW, not everyone agrees that supporting Hero Factory is the only possible way BIONICLE could come back. Let us look at another possible scinerio:

 

Hero Factory does not sell as well as BIONICLE (which may be the case right now unless anyone has some sales figures to tell us one way or the other). BIONICLE made more money. In a business, more money is more money. So what do you do? Keep going with something that isn't selling as well, even after a few years of trying to improve upon it, or go back to what was selling better?

 

I'm certainly not saying that supporting Hero Factory to a certain extent won't help bring back BIONICLE, you just might not want to assume that it's the only way.

If you feel that it's not the only way, then why on Earth don't you use other ways?

Do I and others not? How are you sure you're not stereotyping us? And what "other ways" do you advocate?

BTW, I never said the supporting HF was the only way. Again, adding subtext that doesn't exist and shoving it into my mouth.

Do you have any evidence that HF isn't selling as well as Bionicle? Besides, it's only been around for what? Like a year?

 

So yeah, saying that HF doesn't sell as well as Bionicle (which I am still looking for proof) is an invalid argument.

Just that it seems to me there would have been a bigger increase in sales than 5.9% especially considering the success of 2 new market areas (board games and an MMOG).

But until LEGO tells us one way or the other (which they may never do, I sure wouldn't if I were LEGO), I don't see "Hero Factory doesn't sell as well as BIONICLE" or the inverse as a valid "argument". That's why I didn't use it as one. I said it's a possible scenario that, if true (which it may be), would suggest the exact opposite of the popular belief (at least among those who like Hero Factory) that Hero Factory's success may help bring back BIONICLE.

I don't see how Lego is limiting themselves by not supporting your clubs.

To be honest, I'm not sure where you drew the idea that LEGO is somehow limiting themselves by not supporting some clubs. I'm mean really, what does that even mean???

Let us recap:

If you support HF, yes it will increase the likelihood of Bionicle's return.

 

But if you don't support it and keep shoving your clubs into Lego's face...

 

...yeah, you can pretty much kiss any chance of success in bringing back Bionicle goodbye.

So absolute. You really think LEGO limits themselves that way?

You make these absolute statements that LEGO will do this if we do [this]. Not even LEGO has gone around making such definative proclamations. Unless you happen to be in complete control of The LEGO Group (unlikely ) these are just educated guesses at best. I'm sure LEGO knows better than to make such absolute decisions as "If Hero Factory doesn't sell well, we'll never go back to BIONICLE.". Why? Because future interest can be difficult to predict and BIONICLE represented a multi-million dollar share of LEGO's profits.

As Greg Farshtey stated, continued interest in BIONICLE is necessary for LEGO to consider bringing BIONICLE back. As it so happens, clubs for BIONICLE's return, show continued interest.

The only ones who are limiting themselves are you guys, because all you're doing is making petitions as if it were the only way to bring back Bionicle. There's other ways too y'know, like supporting HF.

Curious that you feal this way. I, for one, do not believe that making petitions is the only way to bring back BIONICLE. I do, however, believe it is a way. A contributing factor. A way of showing continued interest.

BTW, not everyone agrees that supporting Hero Factory is the only possible way BIONICLE could come back. Let us look at another possible scinerio:

Hero Factory does not sell as well as BIONICLE (which may be the case right now unless anyone has some sales figures to tell us one way or the other). BIONICLE made more money. In a business, more money is more money. So what do you do? Keep going with something that isn't selling as well, even after a few years of trying to improve upon it, or go back to what was selling better?

I'm certainly not saying that supporting Hero Factory to a certain extent won't help bring back BIONICLE, you just might not want to assume that it's the only way.

You'll note that the topic doesn't address the when or how, which are really the most important goals of your little club, no?

My recent thoughts on how:

I and the 2001-05 comic artist think it started to encounter issues in 2006 when they tried to gear it more towards older kids who tend to have grown out of such things. More importantly, with changes in toy line management, each person in charge wants to put their own spin on it (weather or not that spin is good or not). For example, in 2006 when they tried to gear it towards an older crowd, they also changed the comic artist, not because the current artist wasn't doing a good job (I mean really, he was the best!), but because they wanted to change it. So, it's very probable that BIONICLE was suspended indefinately not because it wasn't selling well (AFAIK, it was still selling well) but because they wanted to change. Who knows, maybe some future management will consider BIONICLE's return their claim to fame.

If you support HF, yes it will increase the likelihood of Bionicle's return.

 

But if you don't support it and keep shoving your clubs into Lego's face...

 

...yeah, you can pretty much kiss any chance of success in bringing back Bionicle goodbye.

So absolute. You really think LEGO limits themselves that way?

Sign me up!

 

The fans do exist all over the Internet. But they don't all agree with you, so you shouldn't try to represent us who disagree with these righteous quests of yours.

How could the people who want it back possibly represent the people who don't?

He's making it seem as if the whole community supports this miserable club.

I disagree.

Sign me up!

The fans do exist all over the Internet. But they don't all agree with you, so you shouldn't try to represent us who disagree with these righteous quests of yours.

How could the people who want it back possibly represent the people who don't?

BAAH

 

WHAT IF I DONT WANT TO HUH

Nothing I suppose.

Hmm, just found this and finished reading all the entries, so I may go back a little ways.

 

 

This quote if from the topic in which he first said it in response to a question on if LEGO might bring it back do to people's complaints.

. . . What I am actually implying is that if there is no fan sentiment being expressed for it at all, it definitely WON'T come back. The only reason LEGO would have to bring it back down the line is if they feel there is an audience out there for it. If the fan community just dries up and blows away, then the prevailing notion will be that no one is interested enough to support its return.

As you can see, he neither confirms nor denies whether or not "petitions, raids [ ], boycotts, etc." may help to bring back BIONICLE. In fact, he seems to confirm that both "petitions, raids [ ], boycotts, etc." and "just kept having fun with it same as they always had" would help to convince LEGO that "there is an audience out there for it". He doesn't appear to limit it as you do.

What I think that the point Greg was trying to make was that, although BIONICLE has ended, that does not mean that enjoyment of it should end just as well. We can go on as we've always had. We can keep discussing story, we can keep writing fanfiction, we can keep building MOCs and everything else. He was basically saying that just because BIONICLE ended doesn't mean that we have to completely throw BIONICLE into the trash bin and forget about everything and stop making MOCs or writing fanfiction and leave BZPower altogether. It means that, although it is gone, we can still keep talking about it and doing stuff with it. It does not mean, however, that we should bother LEGO with all these thousand and one petitions and letters.

I have never seen more words put into Greg's mouth than I have over this quote. The topic Greg originally said this in was a "give it a rest, BIONICLE is never coming back" topic. Certainly it does not say that "we should bother LEGO with all these thousand and one petitions and letters", but it also does not say they "we shouldn't bother LEGO with all these thousand and one petitions and letters", that would be twisting his quote out-of-context. Also, thousands of letters and petitions sounds like a bit of an exageration, don't you think.

You must remember, though: LEGO is making quite the push to get Hero Factory out there. Storied LEGO themes died because the stories were limited to online games and two paged comics in the LEGO Magazine. Hero Factory has its own TV Show, which means that more kids see it all the time and it is in their minds much more than the usual LEGO theme is. They are more likely to ask their parents for the sets and stuff for Christmas and Birthday presents that way.

BIONICLE also got a very big push, yet, it also nearly died on it's 3rd year. Also, it's worth pointing out that Hero Factory is not the first LEGO theme to have a TV show. Galidor was. And not just 4 episodes either, 2 full, 13-episode seasons! It even got high-ratings, believe it or not! Bet I don't need to tell you what happened to it though.

My brain took a vacation today so I can't think very straight for the moment. Nevertheless, I'll try my best...

Why limit the definition of "true fan", even if only in your own mind(s), to match what you believe a "true fan" should be? For example . . .

 

Hero Factory is here to stay. A true fan of Bionicle will accept that.

Stating that a "true fan" must accept that Hero Factory isn't going anywhere seems just as blind a belief as the belief that "anyone who likes Hero Factory can't call themself a 'true fan'" which you just criticized.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. Whether it's the way you worded it or I'm just a moron today I don't know. I'll tackle this one later. xP

Ok. If you need me to reword it, let me know.

"Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back." . . . If you want to know what GregF was saying then take it for what it is. Star Trek fans didn't go nuts for years and years with petitions, raids, boycotts, etc. until it was brought back. They just kept having fun with it same as they always had and that is precisely what did bring it back.

I think we should get this right from the horse's mouth.

 

This quote if from the topic in which he first said it in response to a question on if LEGO might bring it back do to people's complaints.

. . . What I am actually implying is that if there is no fan sentiment being expressed for it at all, it definitely WON'T come back. The only reason LEGO would have to bring it back down the line is if they feel there is an audience out there for it. If the fan community just dries up and blows away, then the prevailing notion will be that no one is interested enough to support its return.

As you can see, he neither confirms nor denies whether or not "petitions, raids [ ], boycotts, etc." may help to bring back BIONICLE. In fact, he seems to confirm that both "petitions, raids [ ], boycotts, etc." and "just kept having fun with it same as they always had" would help to convince LEGO that "there is an audience out there for it". He doesn't appear to limit it as you do.

I think I can help with this one. You have a valid point that he didn't really say either way specifically.

 

I'd like to point out that I'm actually not against petitions and the like. In fact, I believe that, at some point, a petition or two might actually do some good. As I said, it's when people go absolutely nuts about it that it's probably not going to do much good. From what I've seen, all these petitions seem to be fueled more by simply RAAAGE and anger than the actual desire to have the sets recontinued. A civilized petition? Yes. A petition formed by people who are all "SEE THIS, LEGO? THIS IS THE NAMES OF 20 PEOPLE WHO ABSOLUTELY LOATHE AND HATE YOU FOR DISCONTINUING BIONICLE, YOU #####!"? I'm gonna go with "no". Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong places, but I've yet to see any other kind.

Interesting. I like your open-mindedness on this. But, I really doubt anyone has sent a petition even remotely resembeling your description. I agree that something like that would be totally unreasonable.

I agree with all of the above except for the Hero Factory part. I dislike Hero Factory, mostly because it just doesn't suit me rather than because it replaced Bionicle. I also don't see it as here to stay. In my opinion, in maybe a year or two at most, it'll be replaced by another line (or Bionicle, IDK). It probably won't outlive many of the other themes with stories we've had in the past like Exo-Force and Knights' Kingdom. Four years at most but after that Lego will probably try something new. But I do agree with they

Here here! Mayhaps he did not mean it literally, but stating that Hero Factory won't be going anywhere is very short-sighted. As Lewa Krom said, rare is the storied LEGO theme that lasts more than 3 years. Even BIONICLE nearly died on it's third year. People who believe BIONICLE can never come back are making the same mistake as people who believed BIONICLE could never be cancelled in the first place. Not even LEGO has limited themselves to never bringing back BIONICLE, why should we?

"Hero Factory is here to stay" might have been a poor choice of wording. Of course I don't believe that Hero Factory is going to be "permanent". I just as much expect it to only last so long, unless something drastic develops. I simply meant that sending petitions to restart the Bionicle line, death threats for starting Hero Factory, etc. isn't going to bring Hero Factory to a screeching halt. Even if the community did convince LEGO to recontinue Bionicle sets tomorrow, that doesn't mean they're just gonna drop Hero Factory in an instant. In fact, I'd much sooner expect that if Bionicle came back so soon we'd see the two themes running parallel rather than cancelling Hero Factory just because Bionicle was popular again. So long as Hero Factory is working for LEGO, they aren't likely to cancel it until they feel it's for the best, just as it was with Bionicle I'm sure. Hope this clears that up.

Alrighty. We agree.

Either way, if you've got some problem with this entry being here you can take it up with the BZPower Blog Staff.

So, you might say you wish to exclude those who disagree with you from posting in your club?

Not at all. If people want to state their opinion and that they don't agree with me, that's fine, so long as they can be civilized about it. If this were truly the case, I would have straight-up deleted all negative comments in this entry thus far.

 

What I don't want is people coming in here, pointing fingers, making accusations, and what appears to be just trolling for a flame war. If you want to come in here and explain to me why you think I'm not right, fine. Coming in here and telling me that I'm "insulting the vast majority of the Bionicle fanbase" or "I'd rather eat my face than approve this blog" (BTW pix or it didn't happen ), is not a productive exchange of information, if I may put it that way.

 

I also wished to encourage him to, if he truly believes this club is just bad news and somehow breaks the rules, report such findings to the staff instead of just chewing me out for it.

From what I understand, he doesn't appear to think that this club does break the rules, but feals that you are doing something wrong, or, more accurately, something that he disagrees with. Though I agree he's not doing the best job of expressing his oppinoin. Also, on your recommendation, the same can be said to you. If you believe he or anyone else is "just trolling for a flame war" why not just report it?

Just my $.02

Ahh JMMB, is there never a time that you have to let the world know about your every opinion? It's been too long since we've talked. I'm going to enjoy this a lot.

Why limit the definition of "true fan", even if only in your own mind(s), to match what you believe a "true fan" should be?

 

Stating that a "true fan" must accept that Hero Factory isn't going anywhere seems just as blind a belief as the belief that "anyone who likes Hero Factory can't call themself a 'true fan'" which you just criticized.

Now if I may ask a question, what do you think the definition of a "true fan" is? Not your interpretation, but what the label means for everyone else? Most people who call themselves "true fans" because they think that they somehow are more important as a fan than others around them. I've seen a lot of the petitioners call themselves that, and this group is a response to that claim. It's trying to redefine the term as something more positive, something that doesn't only contain a certain group of fans. A very noble cause that I can't thank Takuma Nuva enough for starting.

That is a trap. I needn't take your bait and create an equally blind and narow-minded definition of what a "true fan" is or should be. I do not believe it needs to be "redefine[d]" to match yet another group. If anything, I'm more inclined to believe it should be destroyed or otherwise undefined. Thus far, I have only ever seen the term "true fan" used by some group who wishes to bring other people over to their belief by telling other's if they don't, they can't call themselves a "true fan".

Right now, I am trying to determine if this club is an exception.

Of course, your specific complaints (for lack of a better word that slips my mind at the moment) are really just nitpicking don'tcha think? The only ones being criticized for their viewpoints here are the ones who came in with their trolling guns armed and pointed at everything that moved. I haven't seen any of the members here claiming that everyone not in the group isn't "a fan." Your complaint seems to be rather unfounded and forced.

No, I don't think so. I'm hardly one to waste time with just nitpicking. (I have better things to do ) I shall never understand why people wish to belittle arguments against them, instead of address them out-right, and let logic alone win. Also, there is a distinct difference in people's minds between "a fan" and "true fan", so, your point seems kind-of pointless.

This quote if from the topic in which he first said it in response to a question on if LEGO might bring it back do to people's complaints.

. . . What I am actually implying is that if there is no fan sentiment being expressed for it at all, it definitely WON'T come back. The only reason LEGO would have to bring it back down the line is if they feel there is an audience out there for it. If the fan community just dries up and blows away, then the prevailing notion will be that no one is interested enough to support its return.

As you can see, he neither confirms nor denies whether or not "petitions, raids [ ], boycotts, etc." may help to bring back BIONICLE. In fact, he seems to confirm that both "petitions, raids [ ], boycotts, etc." and "just kept having fun with it same as they always had" would help to convince LEGO that "there is an audience out there for it". He doesn't appear to limit it as you do.

Now here is something I really wanted to bring up in the last couple months with all these groups and petitions popping up and that is while these methods have been shown to work, a very crucial thing has been overlooked, which is that none of them have the intention of working peacefully with LEGO.

1. How do you know that "none of them have the intention of working peacefully with LEGO"?

2. Since you seem to be the expert, why not tell them how you think they should go about it?

Say what you want about what those groups "really" are doing, but I just saw them using group banners about joining a "rebellion". (A rebellion against what even?) Not to mention that there are members that changed their names to "HF must DIE" or some such nonsense.

Why are people flipping out over that (perticularly the HF must DIE name)?. At least one member has a similar name about BIONICLE (they was banned though). This is true for just about everything. Really, these are issolated occurances. Not really something that should be taken so seriousely.

You said some other stuff, but I found it repetitive of what has already been said.

I really hope that you will take my words into consideration, and not just debate points like you normally do.

I take all well-reasoned words into consideration. I hope you don't mind my first evaluating them. After all, if you are wrong, you wouldn't want me to believe you, would you?

P.S. Your first sentence is rather confounding. I think you may have mistyped it.

Hmm, just found this and finished reading all the entries, so I may go back a little ways.

This club is for the true fans of Bionicle. Obviously the definition of a "true" fan is open to interpretation,

I'm glad that you realize this, but . . .

but we are quite confident that we've come as close to hitting the nail on the head as anyone could. So we shall explain what we believe a true fan to be.

 

A true fan isn't blind. A true fan is willing to admit and live with truths that many refuse to accept to the point where they fool themselves.

Why limit the definition of "true fan", even if only in your own mind(s), to match what you believe a "true fan" should be? For example . . .

Hero Factory is here to stay. A true fan of Bionicle will accept that.

Stating that a "true fan" must accept that Hero Factory isn't going anywhere seems just as blind a belief as the belief that "anyone who likes Hero Factory can't call themself a 'true fan'" which you just criticized.

"Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back." . . . If you want to know what GregF was saying then take it for what it is. Star Trek fans didn't go nuts for years and years with petitions, raids, boycotts, etc. until it was brought back. They just kept having fun with it same as they always had and that is precisely what did bring it back.

I think we should get this right from the horse's mouth.

This quote if from the topic in which he first said it in response to a question on if LEGO might bring it back do to people's complaints.

. . . What I am actually implying is that if there is no fan sentiment being expressed for it at all, it definitely WON'T come back. The only reason LEGO would have to bring it back down the line is if they feel there is an audience out there for it. If the fan community just dries up and blows away, then the prevailing notion will be that no one is interested enough to support its return.

As you can see, he neither confirms nor denies whether or not "petitions, raids [ ], boycotts, etc." may help to bring back BIONICLE. In fact, he seems to confirm that both "petitions, raids [ ], boycotts, etc." and "just kept having fun with it same as they always had" would help to convince LEGO that "there is an audience out there for it". He doesn't appear to limit it as you do.

I agree with all of the above except for the Hero Factory part. I dislike Hero Factory, mostly because it just doesn't suit me rather than because it replaced Bionicle. I also don't see it as here to stay. In my opinion, in maybe a year or two at most, it'll be replaced by another line (or Bionicle, IDK). It probably won't outlive many of the other themes with stories we've had in the past like Exo-Force and Knights' Kingdom. Four years at most but after that Lego will probably try something new. But I do agree with they

Here here! Mayhaps he did not mean it literally, but stating that Hero Factory won't be going anywhere is very short-sighted. As Lewa Krom said, rare is the storied LEGO theme that lasts more than 3 years. Even BIONICLE nearly died on it's third year. People who believe BIONICLE can never come back are making the same mistake as people who believed BIONICLE could never be cancelled in the first place. Not even LEGO has limited themselves to never bringing back BIONICLE, why should we?

Every time someone uses the term "true fan" I want to punch them in the face.

 

All fans of Bionicle are "true" in their own way.

Aaaaaaaand we have a critic. I've seen you support hating HF and calling yourself a try fan.

 

I'd like to join, and since this is so epic, have this. Seriously, this is the best thing since people stopped using JrMasterModelBuilder's 'zero' and 'never wanted' banners so much.

(I'm not really mad, of course. I take all criticism as valuable input. And after all, no matter what you do, someone will disagree.)

Either way, if you've got some problem with this entry being here you can take it up with the BZPower Blog Staff.

So, you might say you wish to exclude those who disagree with you from posting in your club?

Anyway, if you can clear-up or explain all these issues to my saticfaction, I will join your club.

*sigh*

 

The sooner we stop fighting and embrace HF's sets, as well as any lines that come after it, the sooner we'll get to BIONICLE's return. Fighting LEGO is actually detrimental to the whole point.

 

The BIONICLE story should be embraced. The more it is, the more likely that LEGO will see sense.

That a rather narrow view of the people who want BIONICLE sets back. Wanting BIONICLE sets back doesn't necessitate that you dislike Hero Factory. Wanting BIONICLE sets back doesn't really have to have anything to do with Hero Factory (it can if you want, but it doesn't have to). A great many people who like Hero Factory still want BIONICLE sets back.

There aren't a whole lot of people who like both. A lot hate Hero Factory, period - that's detrimental. LEGO will look at the stats for buildable figures.

Bionicle Or Hero Factory?

Which do you like better?

BIONICLE [ 200 ] [65.36%]

Hero Factory [ 8 ] [2.61%]

Like both [ 94 ] [30.72%]

Hate both [ 4 ] [1.31%]

Really? I though 30+% was significant. My mistake.

Also, a lot of people hate BIONICLE, period. Your point? You don't find many on this site for obviouse reasons, but it's true. This illusion of clearly devided tastes was bound to happen when there became two different, dominant interests amongst the same members. Some like one, some like the other, some dislike one or the other, and some like both (BIONICLE, of course, being the more dominant, as most members joined because of their interest in BIONICLE). It's true for everything, it's just more profound with Hero Factory, because those that like it and those that don't are all stuffed in the same place.

I'll join.

"I've been a fan of BIONICLE since 2001, and a fan of LEGO for longer than I can remember. BIONICLE was, by far, my all-time favorite LEGO theme. It's deeply-involving story-line and unique sets as well as it's many other incarnations made it something truely worth while. I would love to see it continue, in all of it's forms."

After all, everyone knows Lego often tends to randomly drop their plans in favor of listening to the requests of a very small percentage of their fanbase who aren't even in their target audience.

You don't know how right you are. (No really.)

It's not that I don't like it so much as that I don't see I the point. If this is just for fun, that's totally fine; I just hope you know that nothing will actually result from this.

I'll bet a lot of Star Treck, LEGO Pirates, & Firefly fans said that. . .

I was just wondering, can we get a little more information on the club itself? For example, does it plan to bring BIONICLE sets back?

*sigh*

 

The sooner we stop fighting and embrace HF's sets, as well as any lines that come after it, the sooner we'll get to BIONICLE's return. Fighting LEGO is actually detrimental to the whole point.

 

The BIONICLE story should be embraced. The more it is, the more likely that LEGO will see sense.

That a rather narrow view of the people who want BIONICLE sets back. Wanting BIONICLE sets back doesn't necessitate that you dislike Hero Factory. Wanting BIONICLE sets back doesn't really have to have anything to do with Hero Factory (it can if you want, but it doesn't have to). A great many people who like Hero Factory still want BIONICLE sets back.

Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back.

That's been said far too many times now.

Which actually attests to it's validity. After all this time, nobody has been able to refute it. If you like, we can start saying it happened with Firefly, LEGO Pirates, or many other things instead.

Mata Nui Online Game. Clearly LEGO didn't want it around anymore, because they took it off. Asking LEGO for it back must be a waste of time. It doesn't even advertise their current set line. We'll never get a download or anything.

MNOG was a completed game that many enjoyed, and also was a free product that LEGO kept on their servers. This game was canceled and deleted. Not to mention that it was going to be a product, and thus has copyright issues to go through beforehand so people can release it. (If we can even find anyone who has it and can.) There are a lot more issues with this than LEGO just not wanting to release it, and it's a lot more complicated than re-releasing MNOG was.

It's true, they're not the same, but they are comperable. TLOMN was cancelled, but not entirely deleted (though LEGO apparently doesn't have a copy). I'm not sure how it was going to be a product is a problem. MNOG was going to be released as a video game too. Just an autorun.inf file like so:

[autorun]
OPEN=matanui/autorun.exe
ICON=matanui.ico

And you have your self a CD-ROM. While probably easier to release than this game, it doesn't look like they just zipped up the folder. They had to edit all 347 of the text files to replace "Tohunga" with "Matoran" (While one might expect they used a program like Notepad++, I think they did it by hand.) Also for the 3 cutscenes that contained "Tohunga", they clearly went out and bought a Flash decompiler to recover the source code for them to re-publish it without that word (BTW, if it were me, I'd have just used a free/easy hex editor ). They also scrambled (either that or that's how they were to begin with) 400+ file name capitalizations so that Linux systems (i.e. most web servers) wouldn't be able to load the game.

A person with the game was located back in 2003, so, we already did that. And yes, making copies shouldn't be a problem. There wouldn't even be pesky program like SafeDisc.

Well then says so dude. It gives you more credibility. I think it's safe to say 1/4 of the population would like to make video games.

Not to be rude, but I don't see how my future career has anything to do with this discussion, nor why I need to justify/elaborate on it.

 

~LT

I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was that if you intended to state that you knew something about how video games work/are made, you should be a little more clear about it. The way you said it, it sounded like you didn't currently have any knowledge on the subject, which was clearly a misunderstanding.

One more thing Greg, can you tell us what possition the person you talked to held at LEGO?

My goodness JMMB, must you debate me on everything?

Only when you say something that makes no sense to me.

All I was pointing out here is that spending large amounts of time asking LEGO to allow the release of something that they obviously don't want out there is just wasting everyone's time.

Mata Nui Online Game. Clearly LEGO didn't want it around anymore, because they took it off. Asking LEGO for it back must be a waste of time. It doesn't even advertise their current set line. We'll never get a download or anything.

We could certainly fix the game given enough time and resources, but since there is a similar fan-game being worked on I don't really see the point.

Don't get me wrong, fan games are nice and all, but I still want the original. It simply won't be the same game that was intended to be the 2001 canon story line. As I said above, I don't want this game simply for the playing experience.

(BTW, when I said future video game dev, I meant professional dev. I've already started some college classes on the subject, and am working on a small game to release in the coming months. )

 

~LT

Well then says so dude. It gives you more credibility. I think it's safe to say 1/4 of the population would like to make video games.

Sorry to keep discussing. . .

Um, you guys do realize that this is a TEN-YEAR-OLD game right?

I can count ya know?

Not to mention a buggy, incomplete ten-year-old game?

It is not incomplete, it is unfinished.

Even if LEGO gave permission to release it, we would have to find someone with the beta CD, and then all we would end up with is a glitchly level.

We already found a (not) beta. And even if there is only one level playable, that's way more than we have now.

It certainly doesn't sound like it would be worth all that trouble to get, and I certainly see why LEGO doesn't want to be bothered with allowing release.

LT, my good friend. Would you do me a favor? In 10 years, look me up, and tell me how far your give-up-and-forget-about-it attitude gets ya.

And speaking as a future video game developer,

Lol, what? "[A] future video game developer"? If making video games is what you love, get started now! Take my advice, any good employer isn't going to want you to tell them you want to make video games, they're going to want you to show them you can.

even if a group of fans wanting to finish the game got the game, it would be so obsolete (Not to mention buggy) that it would be better to just start from scratch. There's nothing really to be gained by trying to get LEGO to release this game.

 

~LT

If you want to re-write it all from scratch, I got no problem with that. But you can't do that until you have the original game to examine and rebuild. Otherwise, it will just be a fan game.

And speaking as a current binary reverse-engineer, I'll tell you. There is no glitch you cannot beat and there is no incompatibility that cannot be made compatible.

Lord Trionx, go here to answer your comments.

 

Um, the game suffered mostly from bugs, not quality issues.

I have a very reliable source in connection with the game's development that tells me that the reason it was cancelled was because it wasn't compatible with some of the graphics cards of the day. Big deal. All you need is a work-about. The Battle for Mata Nui was released, even though it doesn't seem to work for half the population.

And if it had to be scrapped because of that, it would be better to just make your own version.

If I wanted a game for the playing experience, I certainly wouldn't care about this game.

And like I said, it would be using nearly a decade old game engine. In terms of software and hardware advancements, it's like a century old game.

 

~LT

And yet, these games (which, BTW, are older ) still work!

Insectoid game 1

Insectoid game 2

Insectoid game 3

Well, let me put it to you this way -- suppose you wrote a fan fiction story that you ended up really not happy with and feeling wasn't a good representation of your writing? Would you want someone posting it publicly, and having it reflect badly on you? The game was not of the quality LEGO wanted, so we have no interest in the public seeing it.

However bad it was, I think I would still let them have if if enough people really wanted it, but maybe that's just me.

Also, LEGO had intended to release 100 copies of this incomplete game up until they cancelled it and thanks to archive.org, I can show you.

By the way, as far as I can tell, it wasn't as bad as these LEGO video games:

LEGO Island: Terribly lame, even for the ancient game it is. I believe half the buttons are 1 pixel by 1 pixel making clicking them next to impossible.

LEGO Island 2: Terribly glitch-ridden. If, at any time, you loose one of the mini-games, it locks itself into unplayability. If you drive a car off the rode and get it stuck (very easy to do), you will not get it back. There are more glitches like landing zones that act as if there is something already there.

Extreme Island Stunts: Corrupts its own save files after a few days of game play.

All of these were just re-released, too.

If you dislike Hero Factory, I can't see how releasing what has accurately been called a 10 year old, bug-ridden, unfinished game is somehow going to make you like it more.

Tell you what. If LEGO releases this game, I'll become a Hero Factory supporter and actually buy a set. (I am joking, but I can be seriouse in an instant .)

By the way, LEGO, after about 3 years of screaming fans, eventually put Mata Nui Online Game up for download. You wouldn't happen to know what it took to finally achieve that, would you?

Any idea what it would take to convince LEGO to allow someone with a copy of this game to make his copy available to others? I know both that people do have this game and how they obtained it.