Constructelf Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Ok. Lewa was created on Daxia and then spent the next 100000 years in the codrex. How did he know chutespeak from the very moment of his arrival on Mata Nui? I'm pretty sure the OoMN didn't teach him THAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lielac Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Canon changed. A lot of things in the early days were overwritten by later canon or Word of Greg: see also, "Tohunga", the implied relationship between Macku and Hewkii... okay I got nothin' else.Anyway. Treespeak stopped being a thing that every Le-being knew around the time we saw ones who weren't Metru Nui natives or the Toa Mata, and Lewa ending up learning Treespeak a little later down the line to make things make sense. Yeah, it's kind of bleh that something like that got overwritten and there's a plot hole in its place, but it's a pretty minor blip of a retcon. Quote I write stories, on occasion. Finishing them... yeah, uh. That's another thing entirely. Avatar made with the Rayg Kit 2.5, and featuring Lilak, Toa of Lightning.She is totally, totally not a shameless self-insert. Y'know, except for the part where she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Simple. He didn't use it much, if at all, when he first arrived at Mata Nui, but he spent time around the Le-Matoran and learned it. Like a northern American learning the southern accent from spending time living there. By the time of MOL he had picked it up (it's pretty easy). :)Only thing I'm not sure on is if the portrayal of him when he was first made (I believe there was a brief one) was consistent with this or not...Edit: Lielac, what are you saying was retconned? I'm not aware of any retcons. They did change their minds about MOL at one point and decided to have him have learned it, but they didn't (and couldn't) go back and rewrite the original comics or anything. They simply had him learn it. As far as I recall, anyways... Edited August 28, 2012 by bonesiii Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lielac Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Edit: Lielac, what are you saying was retconned? I'm not aware of any retcons. They did change their minds about MOL at one point and decided to have him have learned it, but they didn't (and couldn't) go back and rewrite the original comics or anything. They simply had him learn it. As far as I recall, anyways...From what I can recall of Lewa's first appearance in the first Hapka book he's using Treespeak, and this is before he meets anyone else on the island (he's swinging around Le-Wahi and eventually finds Le-Koro by following a Gukko pilot) so he wouldn't have been able to learn it. It's not so much a retcon as in someone saying "Oh yeah this isn't canon anymore", just something from early on being contradicted by later information. Also I could be wrong because I don't have Tale of the Toa right with me to check. Quote I write stories, on occasion. Finishing them... yeah, uh. That's another thing entirely. Avatar made with the Rayg Kit 2.5, and featuring Lilak, Toa of Lightning.She is totally, totally not a shameless self-insert. Y'know, except for the part where she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hm, I did expect you to say it was the books. Hapka's portrayals are known to have a lot of contradictions with other canon story; usually we presume that Hapka's side of the contradiction is wrong. Most likely it just wasn't something that was checked with the story team. However, it's certainly possible that he started to pick up on it earlier and "just so happened" to use it in the Hapka scenes but not in the comic scenes. I have it but I'm too tired now to look it up so yeah... Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lielac Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Aaaah, yes! I knew that about the Hapka books, really. I was on the brink of saying something along the lines of "Chalk it up to another thing in the Hapka books that aren't canon" in my original post, even! Quote I write stories, on occasion. Finishing them... yeah, uh. That's another thing entirely. Avatar made with the Rayg Kit 2.5, and featuring Lilak, Toa of Lightning.She is totally, totally not a shameless self-insert. Y'know, except for the part where she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Zaz Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 In Greg's comics, Lewa doesn't speak Treespeak until, if I recall correctly, the Bohrok-Kal comics. In some of the other, non-canon material, he does speak it as soon as he arrives on the island. Quote Thank you, BZPower staff. In the past, I wish I showed more appreciation for all that you do. From one Bionicle fan to another, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleidoscope Tekulo Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 After quickchecking my graphic novel (a book that compiles the comics into one book), Lewa first begins to oddspeak when the rahkshi first showappear. I know I have the first Hapka book somewhere, though I can't seem to seekfind it, so I can't check. =/ I've quickfound books 2-4, though... This is going to drive me crazymad! D=Though, I'm happyglad that Hapka incorporated treespeak so early on. It added imagination and depth to the characters (she was greatgood at doing that in my opinion). Quote Executive Vice President of Tomato Throwing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lielac Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Aaaagh, Tekulo, what are you saydoing! It's hitinfected me, too! Now I'll never sayspeak normally again! Woe, woe!Ahem. Yes. It's truecanonical that Lewa only caughtspoke Treespeak after meetbefriending the Le-Matoran, but I do enjoylike the early examples Hapka madeshowed even if they've been madeturned falsecanon. Treespeak's got a singsong flow to it when the spiritsoul of it is captured. Quote I write stories, on occasion. Finishing them... yeah, uh. That's another thing entirely. Avatar made with the Rayg Kit 2.5, and featuring Lilak, Toa of Lightning.She is totally, totally not a shameless self-insert. Y'know, except for the part where she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Just checked. First words in the Lewa chapter are in Treespeak. One sentence on the first page isn't.BTW, do we know Lewa was never in Metru Nui? Or when Chutespeak started? Perhaps he may have known of it before and subconsciously realized he was supposed to be headed towards Metru Nui where the Le-Matoran spoke it. Otherwise, the Hapka Treespeak is most likely non-canon. Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleidoscope Tekulo Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hmm... is it possiblelikely that Lewa was programmedlearned in the ways of Chutespeak? You know, when he was createdmade? I'm not too sure what the purposereason would be to design the le-matoran and toa that way...Is it confirmapproved that Chutespeak developed culturally as a glitcherror? (The diseasesickness! It spreadgrows! XP I am having way too many funlaughs with this topic) Quote Executive Vice President of Tomato Throwing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lielac Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I don't thinkrecall Lewa ever saidspoke Treespeak during the pastflashes of the Toa Mata's traintime. BS01 says zilchnull about when Treespeak was createdmade, but my thoughtbelief is that it was formedborn on its own in singsong Le-Metru some time after the Toa Mata went into stasissleep.I hopethink I have the rightgood book somewhere nearclose. I hopeknow I readsaw it a bit more recently than Tale of the Toa...(It's really rather fun trying to meldmake words in a way that isn't just an excuse for redundancy.) Quote I write stories, on occasion. Finishing them... yeah, uh. That's another thing entirely. Avatar made with the Rayg Kit 2.5, and featuring Lilak, Toa of Lightning.She is totally, totally not a shameless self-insert. Y'know, except for the part where she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahkshi Guurahk Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Soory... I dont seeksee my book 1. (the chutetreespeak!) Quote -Rahkshi GuurahkGENERATION 3: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.If I actually tried putting all the stuff I like on here, the sig would burst. (This banner is created by http://www.bzpower.com/board/user/59020-onaku/ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lielac Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I couldn't findsee my copy of Legends #11, either. I'm surecertain Lewa didn't speaksay any Treespeak in the pastflashes, though.... Hmm. I think things like "surecertain" would be an intensifer usage of redundancy... (Oh lord. I really do need to go to sleep, before I start spouting off about linguistics and show just how much of an amateur I am.) Quote I write stories, on occasion. Finishing them... yeah, uh. That's another thing entirely. Avatar made with the Rayg Kit 2.5, and featuring Lilak, Toa of Lightning.She is totally, totally not a shameless self-insert. Y'know, except for the part where she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makuta Matata Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Maybe it's how Matoran and Toa of Air speak from the time of their creation... Quote Three on Three - Memoirs of the Dead - Winner!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishers64 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Maybe it's how Matoran and Toa of Air speak from the time of their creation...But it would seem to be an uneccessary lingistic mannerism in beings that weren't even supposed to use language.At least, not like we use language. Quote Hero Factory RPG | Bionicle Mafia XXIX: Storyline & Theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahkshi Guurahk Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I couldn't findsee my copy of Legends #11, either. I'm surecertain Lewa didn't speaksay any Treespeak in the pastflashes, though.... Hmm. I think things like "surecertain" would be an intensifer usage of redundancy... (Oh lord. I really do need to go to sleep, before I start spouting off about linguistics and show just how much of an amateur I am.) I rechecked-sought my book 11 and Lewa didn't speaksong it. Quote -Rahkshi GuurahkGENERATION 3: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.If I actually tried putting all the stuff I like on here, the sig would burst. (This banner is created by http://www.bzpower.com/board/user/59020-onaku/ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lielac Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I couldn't findsee my copy of Legends #11, either. I'm surecertain Lewa didn't speaksay any Treespeak in the pastflashes, though.... Hmm. I think things like "surecertain" would be an intensifer usage of redundancy... (Oh lord. I really do need to go to sleep, before I start spouting off about linguistics and show just how much of an amateur I am.) I rechecked-sought my book 11 and Lewa didn't speaksong it.Wonderful! Okay, so him using Treespeak in the Hapka books before meetfinding the Le-Matoran is falsecanon, the Hapka books are known for contradicting canon and generally they end up in the wrong... Hmm. I think we've answered Constructman's question, though as the topic starter he'd know that best. Quote I write stories, on occasion. Finishing them... yeah, uh. That's another thing entirely. Avatar made with the Rayg Kit 2.5, and featuring Lilak, Toa of Lightning.She is totally, totally not a shameless self-insert. Y'know, except for the part where she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleidoscope Tekulo Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Though, didn't Greg shy away from Chutespeak over time? I remember a while ago we had a topic discussing how Lewa didn't speak it anymore... =/Also, a thought occurred; why is it only the Le-matoran that speak Chutespeak? Even if it developed over time as a part of the matoran glitch, doesn't that also seem a bit unlikely? What's the point of them changing their communication on their own? Is it possible that it is indeed one of the quirks that their species has?Another thought; what if it's a way to differentiate the element of air from the element of jungle? Their color schemes are quite similar, so it wouldn't, I would think, be that difficult to confuse them. Adding in a speech difference could be an easier way to distinguish the two. Just a thought, no idea if it holds any water. (As for me, I considerthink that Hapka's version is the canontruth. Greg just travelwent away from the original storytale. XP) Quote Executive Vice President of Tomato Throwing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constructelf Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 1. Local culture I guess?2. Matoran of air are green all over (mostly, maybe with a bit of teal). Matoran of the green have a little bit more blue on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makuta Matata Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Maybe it's how Matoran and Toa of Air speak from the time of their creation...But it would seem to be an uneccessary lingistic mannerism in beings that weren't even supposed to use language.At least, not like we use language.I mean, it's in their nature as Le-Matoran to speak like that, almost like the element of air does that to them. Quote Three on Three - Memoirs of the Dead - Winner!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesiii Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) I believe Greg said that Chutespeak developed in Le-Metru out of convenience.IMO it usually isn't done right; people think (even most who wrote canon) that you just group two words together. But if you do it right, you can make long sentences much shorter. For example: If right-done, longspeaks short-turn. (And the words being paired should usually be one syllable each, or two at most.) But if done wrong, you can make sentences much longer. For example: If you-people speaksay darkwrong, you-folk can turnmake short-sentences muchgreat stretchy-longer. I do think sometimes they add a bit of that just for flavor though. :PIn Le-Metru everything was about designing and maintaining fast vehicles (and the chutes it was originally named for), so the idea of speed probably comes from that poetically, and it has practical benefits. I think of it as a type of engineer's slang, basically, kept out of tradition as Treespeak. It may also be that we never really saw much of the fluent proper speakers among engineers in Le-Metru, but we saw others doing it just for style. Edited August 29, 2012 by bonesiii Quote The Destiny of Bionicle (chronological retelling of Bionicle original series, 9 PDFs of 10 chapters each on Google Drive): Part 1 - Warring with Fate | Part 2 - Year of Change | Part 3 - The Exploration Trap | Part 4 - Rise of the Warlords | Part 5 - A Busy Matoran | Part 6 - The Dark Time | Part 7 - Proving Grounds | Part 8 - A Rude Awakening | Part 9 - The Battle of Giants My Bionicle Fanfiction (Google Drive folder, eventually planned to have PDFs of all of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katuko Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) IMO it usually isn't done right; people think (even most who wrote canon) that you just group two words together. But if you do it right, you can make long sentences much shorter. For example: If right-done, longspeaks short-turn. (And the words being paired should usually be one syllable each, or two at most.) But if done wrong, you can make sentences much longer. For example: If you-people speaksay darkwrong, you-folk can turnmake short-sentences muchgreat stretchy-longer. I do think sometimes they add a bit of that just for flavor though. I was going to jump in and say this, but you beat me to it, bonesiii. It annoys me when people write Tree/Chutespeak as just any two synonyms grouped together, since the entire point of it is to be spoken quickly and with fewer words than what you would normally use. Kongu introducing himself in MNOG is a good example, since he explains to Takua what's going on in just a few short sentences. From the MNOG walkthrough:Before the last note has died away, the village suddenly springs to life. Windows pop open and inhabitants peek out. Other villagers appear from higher up in the trees. They eagerly jump down to greet me, some more skillfully than others. One begins to speak to me."Forgive but village attacked by Makuta's evil beasts! Feared you were Rahi but no Rama plays Flute like that, so downtree we come and greet!""What attack?" I ask."In last rainfall Kongu on patrol saw Rama-hive growing topleaf-high, far in dark forest. Lateknowing Matoran, Rama infected by Makuta! One drift ago, cloudsneaking Nui-Rama fly on Le-Koro to destroy all. Quicksoaring Kahu-riders treelaunch, and great battles fought! Village still stands, but many lost!""What is a Rama?" I wonder aloud."Nui-Rama, buzzflying Rahi!" he answers. "Hundred-eye, allseeing, fright and fury! Makuta-Madness makes even worse! Wings mash, pincers grab! No chance for Matoran alone, only Toa bold enough to stand against it, yet cunning Rama sneak-swoop-smash and fly out of reach!" "Who are you?" I inquire."Tamaru of Le-Koro!" he replies. "Highfly Vinesman, deepwood Wayfinder! Chief Kahu-tamer! Matau's best! You are the brave wanderer that some speak of! Braver still, for coming to Le-Koro!"I am a little embarrassed that my reputation precedes me, especially since it is fear of the Nui-Rama and what has happened to Taipu that has brought me here, not bravery."Traveler beware — darktime come," interrupts the villager next to Tamaru. Matau stolen, Lewa gone! Le-Koronans prepare for battleflight!""Who are you?" I ask."Kongu, fastest Leaf-Runner!" he replies. "Everquick pilot! Weaver, mapmaker! Le-Koro Matoran!" "And who is Matau?" I continue."Matau the Singer!" replies Kongu. "Down talk, up singing! Friend and laughter! In lifedawn years past, was known Matau Kewa Champion! Matau, great Turaga of Le-Koro and soul of the forest people! Gone! Gone! Taken by Makuta's Rahi!"KonguThe villagers here speak in an odd manner, but I think that I understand what they mean. "Who is Lewa?" I press on."Lewa, great Toa of Air!" says Kongu. "Hero of Le-Koro! Gone away in quest for the Great Kanohi. If he were here, he would save us, for he has faced greater dangers than this, and survived!""Are you here to help in the defense, traveler? Le-Koro needs brave windriders to face the Rama!" Kongu asks me.I am not certain. Kongu senses my hesitation."Uptree battle, downtree peace! You choose, but if Rama come, try to stay under cover!" says Kongu."The forest can protect you, traveler, if you heed it!" adds Tamaru.I know I can’t save Taipu by heading back down. Perhaps if I help the villagers, then they can help me retrieve Taipu. I have no other options. I head "uptree". As I do so, I notice a dark cloud growing in the distance."Rama-swarm! Scramble!" someone shouts.When the Matoran migrated to Mata Nui, their memories of the city was lost, but they likely kept their unique manner of speech. You don't need to know what an Airship is in order to use the expressions "ever-quick flight" or "uptree". Edited August 29, 2012 by Katuko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25K Now! Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I assume that he picked up the accent from the Le-Matoran, like some others have said. Quote http://vimeo.com/198967785 BZPRPG Profiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleidoscope Tekulo Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (Tekulo is taking extensive notes on this subject)Well that actually does answer my questions. The other five elements in Metru Nui didn't really relate-have a reason to speech-turn.In other words, Lewa can either mind-seek in his sleep (AET = Air Elemental Telepathy) or the less likely option that his first-speech was not canon. (I opt for the fun explanation, as I do with most things. XP) Quote Executive Vice President of Tomato Throwing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuparu1995 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Well, Air-types are naturally created a certain way, hence certain characteristics shared by Matoran of certain elements (greater physical strength in Po-Matoran, limited night vision in Onu-Matoran, etc.), so I guess the propensity to pick up a certain dialect would be "programmed" in as well, which he would have picked up upon first meeting and settling in with the Le-Matoran. Quote Nuparu1995 92% of teens have moved onto rap.If you are part of the 8% that still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your signature. R.I.P. - 7/20/2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Being Velika Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I think that all air-species know chutespeak/treespeak from the beginning. Or maybe, because Lewa's mind was "wiped" after being in the Toa canister for so long, that he didn't remember anything, so he just picked up the language of the matoran. Quote I like BZP so much, I named my Minecraft account Dimensioneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Hmm... is it possiblelikely that Lewa was programmedlearned in the ways of Chutespeak? You know, when he was createdmade? I'm not too sure what the purposereason would be to design the le-matoran and toa that way... Maybe it was defaultset in his mindhead in order for him to bettereasy speaktalk to the native Matoran of the region he was sent to protectguard. Quote save not only their lives but their spirits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meta-Mind Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Well, in Swamp of Secrets, Lewa is not shown speak-talking in tree-speak/chute-speak. However, in the first Hapka book, Lewa's mind-thoughts are in treespeak. I'm fairly certain-sure that this was a case of retconning, with Lewa originally think-talking in treespeak as a "Le-Koronan." When it was revealed he was created-made in the Codrex, speak-talking Chutespeak or Treespeak didn't make any story-sense....Somehow, speak-talking in tree-speak is quite happy-fun... Quote BZPRPG TIME, where you could have one post talk about dinner, and the next about lunch. Time is beyond relative here.There's no reason not to put lasers in the palms of planet-sized robots. In fact, if I had my own planet-sized robot, palm lasers would be one of my first upgrades.BZPRPG Profiles [outdated] May or may not be back from a multi-year hiatus. We'll see how this works out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 ...Somehow, speak-talking in tree-speak is quite happy-fun... Oh yes, it certainsure is. Of course, don't we all love speaktalking treespeak? Quote save not only their lives but their spirits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Nidhiki05 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) ...Somehow, speak-talking in tree-speak is quite happy-fun... Oh yes, it certainsure is. Of course, don't we all love speaktalking treespeak? Although sureknowing how to speaktalk treespeak almost suredefeats the happyplan of loudtalking in codespeak so the feardread spawn of the terriblebad Makuta are in knownothingness about the smartplan of the Matoran . -TN05 Edited September 30, 2012 by Toa Nidhiki05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 ...Somehow, speak-talking in tree-speak is quite happy-fun... Oh yes, it certainsure is. Of course, don't we all love speaktalking treespeak? Although sureknowing how to speaktalk treespeak almost suredefeats the happyplan of loudtalking in codespeak so the feardread spawn of the terriblebad Makuta are in knownothingness about the smartplan of the Matoran . -TN05 Why yes, of course... you are so rightsmart. Quote save not only their lives but their spirits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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