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Was the first bionicle comic canon?


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#1 Offline boston100

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 11:58 AM

I was just re reading the first couple comics and i saw many errors. The most notable being turaga nuju talking. I was just wondering if those comics were or were not canon? I know the answer is probably out there somewhere but i couldent find it.

Thanks!


Edited by bonesiii, Jun 08 2013 - 07:24 PM.

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#2 Offline Sheogorath

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 12:07 PM

they were canon, as far as I know. Turaga Nuju could talk, he just didn't want to, to remind the other turaga of what they did in Metru Nui.


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#3 Offline Dralcax

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 12:55 PM

The comics have a highly compressed timeline, but all the details are indeed canon.
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#4 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 01:05 PM

I was just re reading the first couple comics and i saw many errors. The most notable being turaga nuju talking. I was just wondering if those comics were or were not cannon? I know the answer is probably out there somewhere but i couldent find it.

Thanks!

Nuju spoke in the first comic because he felt it was more important to make sure Kopaka knew for what reason he was on Mata Nui than to maintain his birdtalk. The first comic is indeed part of the canon, and so are all of the details within. If you post the other things you thought were errors, perhaps we can explain them for you.


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#5 Offline Vakama-san

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 03:01 PM

It's all cannon. The only thing I can recall that had to be changed was the fact that they changed "Tohunga" to "Matoran". Other than that, everything's valid.
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#6 Offline TNT-Vezon with an Olmak

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 06:20 PM

In the first comic, the only thing I can think of is that when Kopaka said he can still feel the power of the Hau protecting after sending it to the Suva. That's all I can think of.


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#7 Offline Chro

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 07:26 PM

Maybe he was speaking metaphorically?


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#8 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 07:49 PM

Maybe he was speaking metaphorically?

Yeah, that may be it, but I think he's just stating that the power of the Great Mask is so great that it lingers with him even after it's been sent to Ko-Suva.


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#9 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 09:05 PM

I was just re reading the first couple comics and i saw many errors. The most notable being turaga nuju talking. I was just wondering if those comics were or were not cannon? I know the answer is probably out there somewhere but i couldent find it.

Thanks!

Nuju spoke in the first comic because he felt it was more important to make sure Kopaka knew for what reason he was on Mata Nui than to maintain his birdtalk. The first comic is indeed part of the canon, and so are all of the details within.

 

It's remarkable how often this comes up. The detail about Nuju speaking in bird-language was there on the website right from the start, as was the comic, but many people still assume that him speaking plainly in the first comic is outdated or a mistake. I recall a project a few years ago in which various media bits were being written into a giant script, and someone having a go at the first comic actually rewrote it to have Matoro translating. And yet the simple truth is that Nuju can speak plainly if he feels the occasion calls for it.

 

One thing about the first comic that definitely is inaccurate, however, is that Matoro's mask is white (looking identical to Kopaka's), as are his feet, when (in the set) they're actually sand blue. No idea how the colorist could get that wrong, or how no-one else noticed at any point.


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#10 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Jun 08 2013 - 09:15 PM

 

I was just re reading the first couple comics and i saw many errors. The most notable being turaga nuju talking. I was just wondering if those comics were or were not cannon? I know the answer is probably out there somewhere but i couldent find it.

Thanks!

Nuju spoke in the first comic because he felt it was more important to make sure Kopaka knew for what reason he was on Mata Nui than to maintain his birdtalk. The first comic is indeed part of the canon, and so are all of the details within.

 

It's remarkable how often this comes up. The detail about Nuju speaking in bird-language was there on the website right from the start, as was the comic, but many people still assume that him speaking plainly in the first comic is outdated or a mistake. I recall a project a few years ago in which various media bits were being written into a giant script, and someone having a go at the first comic actually rewrote it to have Matoro translating. And yet the simple truth is that Nuju can speak plainly if he feels the occasion calls for it.

 

One thing about the first comic that definitely is inaccurate, however, is that Matoro's mask is white (looking identical to Kopaka's), as are his feet, when (in the set) they're actually sand blue. No idea how the colorist could get that wrong, or how no-one else noticed at any point.

That's nothing compared to the color innacuracies that happened later in the Metru Nui years. I can't tell you how many coloring errors I saw then. I usually associate it with Elliot's art, although it wasn't his fault--it just usually happened while he was the artist.


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#11 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jun 09 2013 - 12:51 PM

 

 

I was just re reading the first couple comics and i saw many errors. The most notable being turaga nuju talking. I was just wondering if those comics were or were not cannon? I know the answer is probably out there somewhere but i couldent find it.

Thanks!

Nuju spoke in the first comic because he felt it was more important to make sure Kopaka knew for what reason he was on Mata Nui than to maintain his birdtalk. The first comic is indeed part of the canon, and so are all of the details within.

 

It's remarkable how often this comes up. The detail about Nuju speaking in bird-language was there on the website right from the start, as was the comic, but many people still assume that him speaking plainly in the first comic is outdated or a mistake. I recall a project a few years ago in which various media bits were being written into a giant script, and someone having a go at the first comic actually rewrote it to have Matoro translating. And yet the simple truth is that Nuju can speak plainly if he feels the occasion calls for it.

 

One thing about the first comic that definitely is inaccurate, however, is that Matoro's mask is white (looking identical to Kopaka's), as are his feet, when (in the set) they're actually sand blue. No idea how the colorist could get that wrong, or how no-one else noticed at any point.

That's nothing compared to the color innacuracies that happened later in the Metru Nui years. I can't tell you how many coloring errors I saw then. I usually associate it with Elliot's art, although it wasn't his fault--it just usually happened while he was the artist.

 

Can you name some? I looked through all the 2004 comics and couldn't see any obvious ones.

 

Reading over them again, I did find it funny how they had to jump around in the storyline so much to avoid showing anything that was in the movie.


Edited by Sir Kohran, Jun 09 2013 - 06:26 PM.

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#12 Offline Dorek

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Posted Jun 09 2013 - 05:51 PM

Any/all of these things are just as a result of comic-format, and not really any deeper canonical significance. Coloring especially; there are numerous "inconsistencies", but some of it remains a deliberate choice (most of 2007 comes to mind)..

 

But yeah, Nuju talks. Go figure, right?


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#13 Offline TNT-Vezon with an Olmak

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Posted Jun 09 2013 - 06:54 PM

 

 

 

I was just re reading the first couple comics and i saw many errors. The most notable being turaga nuju talking. I was just wondering if those comics were or were not cannon? I know the answer is probably out there somewhere but i couldent find it.

Thanks!

Nuju spoke in the first comic because he felt it was more important to make sure Kopaka knew for what reason he was on Mata Nui than to maintain his birdtalk. The first comic is indeed part of the canon, and so are all of the details within.

 

It's remarkable how often this comes up. The detail about Nuju speaking in bird-language was there on the website right from the start, as was the comic, but many people still assume that him speaking plainly in the first comic is outdated or a mistake. I recall a project a few years ago in which various media bits were being written into a giant script, and someone having a go at the first comic actually rewrote it to have Matoro translating. And yet the simple truth is that Nuju can speak plainly if he feels the occasion calls for it.

 

One thing about the first comic that definitely is inaccurate, however, is that Matoro's mask is white (looking identical to Kopaka's), as are his feet, when (in the set) they're actually sand blue. No idea how the colorist could get that wrong, or how no-one else noticed at any point.

That's nothing compared to the color innacuracies that happened later in the Metru Nui years. I can't tell you how many coloring errors I saw then. I usually associate it with Elliot's art, although it wasn't his fault--it just usually happened while he was the artist.

 

Can you name some? I looked through all the 2004 comics and couldn't see any obvious ones.

 

Reading over them again, I did find it funny how they had to jump around in the storyline so much to avoid showing anything that was in the movie.

Look in the 2005 comics, especially Hanging by a Thread. The colors on the heads are switched on at least one panel every page.


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#14 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 09 2013 - 07:15 PM

Maybe he was speaking metaphorically?

Yeah, that may be it, but I think he's just stating that the power of the Great Mask is so great that it lingers with him even after it's been sent to Ko-Suva.

I though he was just putting the first mask on over the second mask, and as such could switch powers between them at will.


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#15 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Jun 09 2013 - 08:59 PM

 

Maybe he was speaking metaphorically?

Yeah, that may be it, but I think he's just stating that the power of the Great Mask is so great that it lingers with him even after it's been sent to Ko-Suva.

I though he was just putting the first mask on over the second mask, and as such could switch powers between them at will.

That's how it works. Put a mask on, and it becomes part of the collection on the suva. That's why Tahu Nuva can't use any masks besides his Hau Nuva, because Ta-Suva was destroyed by the Rahkshi.


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#16 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 09 2013 - 09:21 PM

 

 

Maybe he was speaking metaphorically?

Yeah, that may be it, but I think he's just stating that the power of the Great Mask is so great that it lingers with him even after it's been sent to Ko-Suva.

I though he was just putting the first mask on over the second mask, and as such could switch powers between them at will.

That's how it works. Put a mask on, and it becomes part of the collection on the suva. That's why Tahu Nuva can't use any masks besides his Hau Nuva, because Ta-Suva was destroyed by the Rahkshi.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that it looked like you could have two masks on your face at once. 


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#17 Offline Makuta Almanax

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 01:18 AM

 

 

 

Maybe he was speaking metaphorically?

Yeah, that may be it, but I think he's just stating that the power of the Great Mask is so great that it lingers with him even after it's been sent to Ko-Suva.

I though he was just putting the first mask on over the second mask, and as such could switch powers between them at will.

That's how it works. Put a mask on, and it becomes part of the collection on the suva. That's why Tahu Nuva can't use any masks besides his Hau Nuva, because Ta-Suva was destroyed by the Rahkshi.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that it looked like you could have two masks on your face at once. 

Technically, no. Bionicle 2 would have you believe it were possible because of when Vakama put the Vahi over his Huna, but that's probably artistic license since in the Bohrok Kal storyline we see Tahu use it without his own kanoihi. Putting another kanohi on would send it to a suva, if one is nearby. Otherwise I doubt it would attach to your face at all without first removing the previous kanohi. I've not seen any of the Metru comics, but I'm pretty sure of the no-two-masks rule. It's suvas or nothing, and the only way any being in the MU could switch between powers would either be to have the Golden Kanohi, which had the powers of all six Mata masks without needing a Suva (now gone) or to wear a mask of conjuring...though the latter can be found or made unlike the Golden Kanohi, it does take 30 seconds before you can change to another power, not to mention you have to programme in the power itself anyway AND phrase it properly. Honestly I'm surprised more Toa didn't use it.But on the topic...the first comic is canon save one word, 'Tohunga'. Nothing a good find&replace can't fix anyway.


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#18 Offline ToaKaprua1324

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 09:55 AM

Actually Greg confirmed that you can have two masks on your face and switch between their powers.


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#19 Offline Sheogorath

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 10:03 AM

Actually Greg confirmed that you can have two masks on your face and switch between their powers.

where?


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#20 Offline TNT-Vezon with an Olmak

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 10:05 AM

Actually Greg confirmed that you can have two masks on your face and switch between their powers.

Really? Nice! :D But, yeah, where did you read that?


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#21 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 10:10 AM

Greg did confirm that. If you wanna find the quote, you can try fishers' Greg archives. (I don't have time at moment.) He did not, as far as I know, confirm that that was what Kopaka meant in the comic, though. He was referring to Vakama's putting the Vahi on his face and using it while he still had the Huna on underneath in the second movie.


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#22 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 11:12 AM

1. Can anyone wear more than one mask? like vakama in lomn?      1) Yes, but it is not accepted practice.

  Some caveats:  

1. Does that mean that Vakama was wearing the Vahi and the Huna at the same time? I assumed it was the movie team taking liberties with appearance to hide the Toa's face. If you actually can use two mask powers at the same time, it's a hugely important piece of information.     Big difference between wearing two masks and being able to use two mask powers. Not being ambidextrous, I can hold two pens, but not write legibly with both at the same time. * * *I've noticed from the first two movies that the characters can wear two masks at once.  How is this possible? How many Masks can one wear at once? Can all the powers be used in this case?  Like you said, that is largely a movie thing -- it has only happened in the comics with the Vahi, which being a legendary mask, does not have to follow the same rules as normal masks. The only other exception was the Dume-Makuta situation, which I frankly saw as more him shapeshifting than doing what it appeared he was doing.

   


Edited by fishers64, Jun 10 2013 - 11:14 AM.

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#23 Offline TNT-Vezon with an Olmak

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 11:26 AM

1. Can anyone wear more than one mask? like vakama in lomn?      1) Yes, but it is not accepted practice.

Interesting. Makes me wonder if it would be considered improper in Matoran culture to wear multiple masks. Thanks fishers!


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#24 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 11:51 AM

 

1. Can anyone wear more than one mask? like vakama in lomn?      1) Yes, but it is not accepted practice.

Interesting. Makes me wonder if it would be considered improper in Matoran culture to wear multiple masks. Thanks fishers!

Probably just inconvenient, clunky, and odd. Like wearing two hats on your head.


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#25 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 10 2013 - 12:27 PM

 

1. Can anyone wear more than one mask? like vakama in lomn?      1) Yes, but it is not accepted practice.

Interesting. Makes me wonder if it would be considered improper in Matoran culture to wear multiple masks. Thanks fishers!

You're welcome. 

 

@LL: You're probably right, but I think it would be impractical. Like the magnetic force that would hold your Mask on would wear out faster if there was two of them, and if you can get away with two, some enterprising Toa would place twenty Masks on their face, which could get cumbersome and awkward. (Not to mention look ugly. :P)


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#26 Offline Omega12

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Posted Jun 11 2013 - 09:34 PM

If you reread the Greg quote its clear. Nothin about it being impracticle or wearing down anything faster. You can wear two masks at once. It doesn't mean you can use two masks at once. Just because I am wearing two pairs of glasses doesn't mean I can see clearly out of them. It's just soley a limitation of the matoran body.
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#27 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 12 2013 - 09:18 AM

If you reread the Greg quote its clear. Nothin about it being impracticle or wearing down anything faster.You can wear two masks at once. It doesn't mean you can use two masks at once. Just because I am wearing two pairs of glasses doesn't mean I can see clearly out of them.It's just soley a limitation of the matoran body.

 

Greg was simply answering a question about whether or not it was possible to wear two masks at once. We were debating the second half of the answer, which was why it wasn't accepted practice by the Matoran.  

 

Another reason that occured to me is that making excess quantities of masks for Matoran to wear would be wasteful and expensive, seeing as they aren't needed. Much more economical to use the protodermis for other projects. 


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#28 Offline Kopekemaster

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Posted Jun 12 2013 - 09:44 AM

 

 

1. Can anyone wear more than one mask? like vakama in lomn?      1) Yes, but it is not accepted practice.

Interesting. Makes me wonder if it would be considered improper in Matoran culture to wear multiple masks. Thanks fishers!

Probably just inconvenient, clunky, and odd. Like wearing two hats on your head.

What's wrong with wearing two hats on your head? I've been known to do that.  :P

 

Ironically, I think I've either created or posted on two topics that talked about these same things...

But I think Greg Farshtey described it best:

 

 

Big difference between wearing two masks and being able to use two mask powers. Not being ambidextrous, I can hold two pens, but not write legibly with both at the same time.

 

Of course, I'm not sure if even ambidextrous people can do that.


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#29 Offline Zestanor

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Posted Jun 12 2013 - 10:31 PM

The first comic is absolutely canon, and for the first three years, the comics unquestionably trumped everything if there was a canonicity discrepancy. The novels de facto took on that status following 2003.


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#30 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jun 12 2013 - 10:55 PM

I wouldn't say absolutely, Zestanor; there was for example the coloring error with Matoro. To some extent, sets did trump comics with things like that. And the story team still technically determined canon even over the comics (so if for example Kopaka's line about the masks was meant to say it could protect him when not on his face, that was not canon, although as discussed above, it's in doubt whether it meant that).

 

But in general, you're right.


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#31 Offline Zestanor

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Posted Jun 12 2013 - 11:48 PM

Somehow, the colorist for Matoro never seemed to grasp what his correct colors were. The coloring error with Matoro persisted for all of his Matoran appearances in the comics. When I first read the comic where the Kal steal the symbols, they had a close-up of Matoro, but I thought it was Kopaka Mata for a second! I was so confused!

 

I try not to get too caught up in story team mandates. OGD has a place in my heart, but if it's not in the print, it just doesn't hold up to what is in the print. The story team can correct possible errors, but saying that Word of God trumps implied Word of God when Word of God deems it necessary is bad maths or something, so I'm glad that the story team doesn't do that much.

 

This is somewhat unrelated, but as the story became more reliant on books and movies, the comics started to give a watered down interpretation. While the story team gave the comics their highest seal of approval, the novels arguably have more authority by virtue of their thoroughness. An example of a pretty large difference between comic and novel is the lead up to Ignika's sacrifice. Greg wrote both, and while the comic jealously guards its canon perch from its glory days, I think most would agree that the multiple page account from the novel is more correct than the comic's version.


Edited by Zestanor, Jun 12 2013 - 11:52 PM.

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#32 Offline Manterax Prime

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Posted Jun 23 2013 - 02:58 AM

I know this doesn't pertain to the canon itself, but it's common knowledge that the sets are used for the comics, yet for some reason Dume's movie form is used in the last 2008 comic.


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#33 Offline Neelh

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Posted Jun 23 2013 - 03:46 AM

The set looked way too Matoran, and the movie form is both more aesthetically pleasing and Turagalike.


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