Golden Weapons Time Paradox

[Boidoh]

OK... This makes no sense... In that episode, Wrong Place, Wrong Time, when Lord Garmadon used the Mega Weapon to travel back in time to prevent Lloyd from ever becoming the Green Ninja, the Mega Weapon was destroyed by using that times four Golden Weapons. After the ninja shot out the elemental powers from their golden weapons, the Mega Weapon defused, or something, and along with the golden weapons of that past (I think?) the 8 Golden Weapons were shot into space, and then the time went back to normal...

 

Besides that being confusing, this makes no sense... OK, so there are no Golden Weapons post the 3rd Pilot episode. Along with that, Wu never went into the underworld, therefore Samukai never died, Lord Garmadon didn't leave the underworld, and whatever else. If Lord Garmadon never left the underworld, then the mega weapon was never formed, but it couldn't have anyways, since they were shot into space... Then he shouldn't even be leading the Serpentine, because they only followed him because of the power he showed with the Golden Weapons... Lloyd also remembers nothing, which also makes no sense... This whole thing confuses me to the point I don't even know what to say.

 

Can anyone make any sense out of this....

[Pohatu: Uniter of Stone]

The mega weapon fell through a plot hole. Thus, nothing makes sense but everything ends up happy and good.

[The 1st Shadow]

I was under the impression that they wanted to do a time travel episode just for the sake of doing a time travel episode. 

[fishers64]

Um, if the Mega-Weapon is never formed, the ninja never go back in time, and the golden weapons are never destroyed. 

 

It's a self-sustaining time loop, not a paradox. 

[Torchbearer]

It could have been a self-preserving time-loop, but bad writing prevented that.

 

Look, in order for the ninja to fix the changes that occurred in the past, they needed to destroy the Megaweapon before the changes were "finished". So, using the Golden Weapons they could destroy the Megaweapon, thus returning them to the future while simultaneously destroying the Megaweapon.

 

But then Lloyd forgot. And that really destroys everything about that episode. Not only did Wu remember the Megaweapon in Codename: Arcturus, but plot devices happened and so Sensei Wu, Nya and Skales (at least) remembered, but Lloyd and no one else had a clue about it.

 

Codename: Arcturus absolutely destroyed any actual concept of the NINJAGO timeline. Everything before Wrong Place, Wrong Time is now completely retconned, yet even though what happened in the Fire Temple was "reversed" it actually happened in the timeline the ninja were transported back to the future in, yet Lloyd still grew up anyway *HEADCANON CAN FIX THAT THOUGH* and no one remembered it despite everything that went on. So Sensei Wu was there, no wonder why HE remembered, and Nya too, so why did Nya fizzle and why was none of this ever recorded in Ninjago's history?

 

It's a big, steaming pile of bad writing, lack of foresight (NINJAGO's return was kinda unforeseeable... still an issue though) and complete lack of proof-reading. The proof-reading issue could be due to NINJAGO's sudden comeback, but it's still an issue nonetheless.

 

My advice? Try to ignore certain parts of the show. As mature as it is, NINJAGO has been riddled with problems from day 1, from everyone saying Cole's lines for him to swapping costumes at a whim, it's easier to just pretend some things never happened. Like the Overlord's Golden Mech bouncing as if a little kid was moving it.

[Boidoh]

Oh yes. That is what I forgot. Lloyd isn't even supposed to be grown up, because if no Mega Weapon, then no Grundle, then no special tea, then no grown up.

[Aanchir]

The way I interpreted it was that because the Mega-Weapon was destroyed, somehow that cancelled out the entire time-travel adventure, and it was the four golden weapons of the present day (previously fused into the Mega-Weapon) that were shot into space. There are still definitely some plot holes, but not as many as there would be if the time-travel adventure retconned the majority of the previous season.

[Zeb]

The way I interpreted it was that because the Mega-Weapon was destroyed, somehow that cancelled out the entire time-travel adventure, and it was the four golden weapons of the present day (previously fused into the Mega-Weapon) that were shot into space. There are still definitely some plot holes, but not as many as there would be if the time-travel adventure retconned the majority of the previous season.

And as for Lloyd's memory loss, I would assume that was because he was such an integral part of the whole time thing that the paradox erased his memory of the weapon.

 

Yeah, that episode is even more confusing than Doctor Who.

[Torchbearer]

The way I interpreted it was that because the Mega-Weapon was destroyed, somehow that cancelled out the entire time-travel adventure, and it was the four golden weapons of the present day (previously fused into the Mega-Weapon) that were shot into space. There are still definitely some plot holes, but not as many as there would be if the time-travel adventure retconned the majority of the previous season.

Unfortunately, I have to rain on your parade. After Lloyd was confused about the time-travel in episode 32 Zane said "You don't remember Lloyd, because when we returned to the present, it had been altered by what we had done in the past"

You could potentially argue that what Zane meant was about time streams, but it's really a stretch. Lloyd's own statement implies he knows something of the Megaweapon, but I personally see that as a minor writing slip-up. So anyway, everything that happened in Wrong Place, Wrong Time...

 

I think it would be best just not to think too hard about the entire thing, like the rest of NINJAGO's plot. It's great on the first view, but when you dig in you realize it's not actually steak but rather a shoe.

[Dralcax]

Whenever a story has time travel, especially back to a previous portion of the narrative, something is going to end up at best confusing or at worst a ridiculous plot hole. The Megaweapon got destroyed before it was created and then any sense of continuity went right out the window. Time travel is one of those things that is inherently confusing because it violates our primary means of understanding events. 

[Zeb]

WAIT! I've just figured out part of the mystery.

 

When the ninja destroyed the Mega Weapon with the 4 Golden Weapons, it cancelled out the adventure as if nothing had happened, except that when Garmadon returned to the present, he no longer had the Mega Weapon. Because in order to prevent a time loop from occurring or something, the Mega Weapon was destroyed during the adventure, not erased from the timeline. So the 4 Golden Weapons weren't destroyed, and the Mega Weapon still existed. However, after they all returned to the present, the Mega Weapon was now destroyed.

 

And as for Lloyd's memory loss, it is quite possible that time travel, time loops, and paradoxes can have side effects on the people affected. And then, of course, it's always possible that Lloyd had actually never heard of the Mega Weapon until that day. So when time was set back to normal, they hadn't told him yet. And maybe it was just a plot hole, because aside from that, everything in the episode can make 100% perfect sense. In terms of time travel, that is. Also, maybe the rules for how time travel works is different in the Ninjago universe, so Lloyd's memory loss is completely normal. Who knows? (Maybe Doctor Who? )

[Torchbearer]

As I said before, numerous quotes from later episodes, some characters remembering and others not remembering just turns it all into a really confusing mush of plot. What happened back in Wrong Place, Wrong Time is like Doctor Who or BtTF. The past was altered, and although the heroes still come from that version of history they are now in a new version of NINJAGO. That's it. So we have no idea of what happened regarding anything prior to Wrong Place, Wrong Time now.

 

I'll elaborate on this using BtTF as an example again. Marty was born in a world where his father was continually bullied even into adulthood. When he went back in time, he altered those events and when he returned it was to an altered timeline where everything he (Marty) did in the past happened, but anything before he got in the Delorean was completely altered save for some major aspects of his life. NINJAGO's version is more or less the same.

 

I guess this explains more than one thing, such as Lloyd forgetting the events that happened. The Golden Weapons, and thus the Megaweapon, were destroyed, so the Megaweapon would never be crafted and Lloyd would not remember it. Another incident may have happened that led to Lloyd's growth, or he may have even spent the full time growing up now. NRG ninja may have happened, but the ninja still remember these forms from the original timeline. There are still *SOME* discrepancies, such as PIXAL not knowing about it (Wu may never have told anyone about it), Nya fading, the Temple collapsing and Skales remembering. It does explain how Wu knew the Golden Weapons were in space, etc etc.

 

So yeah, I take back what I said earlier. Not as stupid as I originally thought, and I apologize for what I said earlier, but there's still some inaccuracies. Hopefully the Hageman brothers (and the rest of the story team) will leave all of this alone from now on, but if it's become as integral as I've just stated, it's going to be appearing a lot.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Torchbearer

[Rahkshi Lalonde]

I must say, if for nothing else than this very topic's existence, confusing and contradictory time travel loops is probably the best thing to ever happen to ninjago.

[Takanuinuva]

I have my own take on it. This was written before the Rebooted saga so it will have to be updated.

 

First is how Lloyd is still older. It goes like this. When the Mega Weapon was destroyed all it did was make it so Garmadon never went back in time in the first place. He still had the weapon in Darkness shall rise, Pirates vs Ninja, Double Trouble, Ninjaball Run and Child's play. But it ceased to exist after Wrong Place Wrong time. This means the golden weapons no longer exist either.

Second is why Lloyd doesn't know about the Mega weapon. He has seen the weapon in the show but never heard it being called the mega weapon so he wouldn't know what it looks like.

Third is Nya fading away. That was time restoring itself back to normal. Garmadon never went back in time after the Mega Weapon was destroyed so that timeline where he went to ceased to exist.

 

Again with Rebooted this theory is pretty much moot now. But It would explain it had Rebooted not happened.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Takanuinuva

[masterchirox580]

Simple it fell through a black hole (nicknamed plot hole) that the writers were able to control hence they captured the golden weapons and put them back in their time period. That or the episode wasn't thought out very well. 

[Zeb]

I have my own take on it. This was written before the Rebooted saga so it will have to be updated.

 

First is how Lloyd is still older. It goes like this. When the Mega Weapon was destroyed all it did was make it so Garmadon never went back in time in the first place. He still had the weapon in Darkness shall rise, Pirates vs Ninja, Double Trouble, Ninjaball Run and Child's play. But it ceased to exist after Wrong Place Wrong time. This means the golden weapons no longer exist either.

 

Second is why Lloyd doesn't know about the Mega weapon. He has seen the weapon in the show but never heard it being called the mega weapon so he wouldn't know what it looks like.

 

Third is Nya fading away. That was time restoring itself back to normal. Garmadon never went back in time after the Mega Weapon was destroyed so that timeline where he went to ceased to exist.

 

Again with Rebooted this theory is pretty much moot now. But It would explain it had Rebooted not happened.

I would expect that Rebooted, if it does screw up this theory (I'd have to watch the episode again), is probably the place where the plot hole is, not the time-travel episode itself.

[Takanuinuva]

I could make an easy change and say when they destoryed the mega weapon in the past it caused the mega weapon in the present to be shot to the arcturus comet. 

[Aanchir]

I could make an easy change and say when they destoryed the mega weapon in the past it caused the mega weapon in the present to be shot to the arcturus comet.

That was my feeling as well — the Golden Weapons that were shot up into space were not the Golden Weapons of the past, but the Mega-Weapon of the present separated back into the Golden Weapons used to create it.

 

Granted, I haven't seen past "Project: Arcturus", so I don't know if anything in "The Void" contradicts that.

[Boidoh]

The pile of golden... stuff, in "The Void" looks like it was made up of more than just the 4 Golden Weapons. The pile is too big. The Mega Weapon is probably there too...

[Zeb]

The pile of golden... stuff, in "The Void" looks like it was made up of more than just the 4 Golden Weapons. The pile is too big. The Mega Weapon is probably there too...

ARGH I haven't seen that episode yet...   maybe it is made out of the golden weapons from the messed up timeline + the Mega Weapon. So it is the prime universe Mega Weapon + alternate messed-up universe golden weapons.