Shadow Avohkii

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

 

If they wore different masks, then how are they Takanuva? Takua would have never turned into Takanuva without that mask, it's kind of his most defining feature.

Shadow Takanuva are from alternate universes where different things happened. It possible that is some instances he became a Toa through other means like a Toa Stone. Maybe instead of summoning the Toa Mata he became one of them? Or different Matoran became Toa Metru including him. Possibilities are endless.

 

 

Anyway, I support the idea of its power being negated or at least weakened for two reasons:

1) If the Avohkii became a mask of shadow it would make the Kraahkan less important.

2) The Makuta consider Takanuva to be one of their biggest threats. Light is very powerful against shadow and they would not want it used against them, hence the invasion of Karda-Nui. While all the Shadow Takanuva may be evil, an Avohkii would still be threat to them. The Takanuvas could turn against them or the masks could also be taken by others. Point is, rather than having one working Mask of Light running around there are now several. Bad for the Makuta.

[Dorek]

I'll ask Greg for clarification, but I want to get my facts straight first. Are we thinking that the Shadow Takanuva wore Kanohi Avohkii, but didn't use them, or that they exchanged their Kanohi Avohkii for different masks?

I'm leaning towards the latter; in this case, it would likely be Tridax himself who is the one who swapped out the masks.

[ALVIS]

So, should I bring the matter to Greg? The reason I ask is because he's given confusing answers on the subject, and I want to try and get them cleared up. Should I make a poll to determine what suggestion to make?

[Chro]

>having moral light and darkness

>not having moral fire, ice, water, air, stone, earth etc

 

Why?

The "moral light and darkness" just have that name because of the associations light and shadow have with good and evil. Every time "moral light" or "moral darkness" is mentioned you could easily just insert "good" or "evil" (but, ah, in some sort of measurable form, I think?). There's no need for other "moral elements" because those are actually just aspects of personality - would you refer to "courage" as "moral fire"? _{(That sounds pretty cool now that I think about it, but it's not a technically accurate term by any means.)}

That's how I think of it, anyway.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Chro

[Iblis]

 

>having moral light and darkness

>not having moral fire, ice, water, air, stone, earth etc

 

Why?

 

...associations...

 

Yes but being drained of you're goodness makes you dark. So the moral 'Element' isn't just thematic the vast majority of the time, Light Is Good, & Dark Is Evil, every now and again there will be subversions, but Light = Good.

It feels awkward; why are those two Elements more tied to morality than any others which seem to be neutral entirely.

 

Even acid seems to be just put down to more destructive than malicious... Plasma is fine, but Shadow? almost always bad, not just because it's a cool Element to have, but because you're morality blurs with these where as these errors don't seem to affect the other Elements.

But then again, anything of any Element can be made Shadow by having it''s morality drained outa it...

 

What's the deal with Shadow? It's just bad ...because morality! o.O

[Archon~]

Shadow is only considered bad because of its association with Makuta, and this ideology became laregly prevalent after the Brotherhood rebelled. Before, it was just another elemenet, however no Kraa-MTT were created as there is no real potential good that could be made with shadow. Also, remember, every being has / should have more or less balanced amounts of moral light and shadow. Makuta are good examples of it that eventually got rid of all their light, but even though that happened they continued to serve the world for the better for a while. My point is that even a shadow moral being could be "good" through fear or some other tactic, but after Mata Nui enforced and observed the situation in the MU less, shadow slowly became associated with bad, while light became associated with good, as things started falling apart.

 

I personally think that beings who are made naturally for their function to be more dominant and violent tend to have more moral shadow in them, while the ones who were meant to maintain and regulate infrastructure stuff were more prone to have moral Light.

 

Also, Yaldbaoth, I think you should poll it, see what people like more, but also mention the alternative. Basically give him reasons why each would be better. Come to think of it, idk if it needs to be polled, your call!

Edited December 18, 2014 by Archon~

[Jam Pot Studios]

Maybe it retains its light powers, but is powerless to the Shadow Takanuva as it rejects their inner shadow? I'm quite fond of this idea, and it's been a headcanon of mine for a while.

[Jobber]

Maybe it retains its light powers, but is powerless to the Shadow Takanuva as it rejects their inner shadow? I'm quite fond of this idea, and it's been a headcanon of mine for a while.

Hasn't that been established already via Greg's answer? But yeah, Shadow Takanuva wouldn't be able to use the Avokii because it still would retain its light., making it essentially useless. 

 

Might as well swap it out for a different mask.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

An Avohkii drained of light should only become a Kraahkan if a Kraahkan devoid of shadow becomes an Avohkii.

[MrSciFiGuy]

As long as its not just a kanohi Kraahkan I am fine. I think it'd be the reverse of light, promoting hostility and mistrust, with some shadow powers.

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

An Avohkii drained of light should only become a Kraahkan if a Kraahkan devoid of shadow becomes an Avohkii.

Was that ever confirmed to be the case? I don't recall Alt. Teridax ever using his Kraahkan.

[Toa Of Virtues]

Whether or not all the shadow Takanuvas are wearing their Avohkiis, do we agree that it would maintain it's powers over light but change shape and color when it is entirely drained of light?

 

2008 Takanuva had part of his light drained, but his mask stayed exactly the same except for its shape and color.

 

I want some fan art for what it would look like entirely drained!

Edited December 28, 2014 by TuragaOfVirtues

[Jobber]

Whether or not all the shadow Takanuvas are wearing their Avohkiis, do we agree that it would maintain it's powers over light but change shape and color when it is entirely drained of light?

 

2008 Takanuva had part of his light drained, but his mask stayed exactly the same except for its shape and color.

 

I want some fan art for what it would look like entirely drained!

Wasn't the reason why the Avokii changed was because of that virus that made him giant in size?

Edited December 28, 2014 by Chasm

[ALVIS]

For those of you who are wondering, no, I haven't asked Greg about this issue yet. He's probably on holiday break right now, and he hasn't been answering many questions. I'll ask him once the new year rolls in.