BioCry Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 So, I've just come back from a who-knows-how-long hiatus to an uproar about the glorious return of our childhood, AKA Bionicle. But, is the Bionicle we know and love really returning? I recently watched a video from the great guys at TTV with a few really good points. Its most prominent one (to me, at least) being how nostalgia can have a huge effect on how we see things. In this case, it affects how we see this new toy line from Lego called "Bionicle". This got me thinking... As soon as the name was mentioned, fans began dancing and praising Lego for bringing back their beloved franchise. Although, Lego never mentioned that they were "bringing back" anything. In fact, a statement they made said that they were "releasing a new constraction line". While this "new constraction line" may pay homage to its predecessor, it has been established as something original and separate from what came before it. Then again, with the recent release of the 2015 Bionicle story and set animations, we have been hinted at a possible connection between storylines new and old. Although, these Vahi easter eggs could also simply turn out to be another form of homage. Only time will tell if there is any plot correlation. So, what do you think? Is "Bionicle" the same thing we knew and loved with a new story? Or, is it a brand new theme that is meant to remind us of the good times we had with our old toys? (Either way, I'm totally buying Tahu. ) - 2 Quote :I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMan289 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 idkit could be either I guess. its brand new but its still the same concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Green Ninja Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 That's why it's called a reboot. It's the same, but not THE SAME. 8 Quote "We didn't lose the battle. Today, we just lost the fight." -Lloyd GarmadonAvid collector of LEGO for many, many years. Feel free to private message me, or email me at greenninjaatcp@gmail.com, and I'll be happy to help. A ninja never quits!Visit the Mixels Wiki! http://www.mixels.wikia.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chro Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 It would be completely stupid to release the exact same Bionicle line as we saw before. Thematically, however, it is still most certainly Bionicle. Quote save not only their lives but their spirits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Rahkmaninoff Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well, it's kind of a subjective thing. Different people will remember different things as the essence of Bionicle. For some people, the essence will be there, for others it won't. I think it is, though. We've got our mysterious island, mask quest, elemental heroes, gear functions and poseability, and evil mind control, which really screams Bionicle to me. Others may miss the Gen1 building system (as opposed to CCBS), but I actually prefer CCBS, at least as awesomely as the 2015 sets use it (some HF sets didn't use it to full effect at all.) We also don't seem to have as much of a sci-fi vibe in Gen 2 as in Gen 1, but then we didn't really have that in 2001 either. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 1st Shadow Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 It's like Transformers. There have been dozens of different iterations of the TF universe and story, but in the bigger picture, it still is Transformers. On a side note, don't we already have like 4 different topics for this? 4 Quote ~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow ~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to NickonAquaMagna~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioCry Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 On a side note, don't we already have like 4 different topics for this? I hope not. I tried to make this discussion as original as possible. :/ - Quote :I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 1st Shadow Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 On a side note, don't we already have like 4 different topics for this? I hope not. I tried to make this discussion as original as possible. :/ - Well, we've got the Official BIONICLE 2015 Topic, one or two others discussing the Vahi and any other easter eggs, and a few others going on about reboots and connections to G1. This one seems like an amalgam of those. Quote ~Your friendly, neighborhood Shadow ~Credit for Avatar and Banner goes to NickonAquaMagna~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aanchir Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Kind of a mixed bag, really. I mean, I personally like to think of it as a new theme since it's getting a fresh start, kind of like how I'd consider a reboot of a classic cartoon like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles a new TV series. I feel the same way about the Space Police and Pirates themes from 2009, both of which were effectively reboots of classic themes. But like those two themes, the new BIONICLE obviously owes a lot of its design standards to the sets and story that came before it. And obviously we've now seen that it's not afraid to reference the old theme in both its set designs and animations, just like how the 2009 Space Police theme was loaded with references to LEGO Space themes from the 80s and 90s. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I consider the 2015 BIONICLE reboot a new LEGO theme — but not a new entertainment franchise. It still falls under the existing BIONICLE label, after all, and the fundamental nature of the franchise has not changed. Oh, and one correction: the thing referring to a "new constraction theme" was not a formal release from LEGO, but rather an item on the LinkedIn resume of Advance employee Asger Johansen. 7 Quote Latest MOC: PAIGE (Prototype Artificial Intelligence, Gynoid Expression) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioCry Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) On a side note, don't we already have like 4 different topics for this? I hope not. I tried to make this discussion as original as possible. :/ - Well, we've got the Official BIONICLE 2015 Topic, one or two others discussing the Vahi and any other easter eggs, and a few others going on about reboots and connections to G1. This one seems like an amalgam of those. *shrug* I didn't base anything off of any of those topics. But if there's too much similarity between this topic and any of those, I don't have an issue with the admins closing this topic. All in all I just want to hear people's opinions on the matter. Either way, this is beside the point. That's why it's called a reboot. It's the same, but not THE SAME. Good point. XP Well, it's kind of a subjective thing. Different people will remember different things as the essence of Bionicle. For some people, the essence will be there, for others it won't. I think it is, though. We've got our mysterious island, mask quest, elemental heroes, gear functions and poseability, and evil mind control, which really screams Bionicle to me. Others may miss the Gen1 building system (as opposed to CCBS), but I actually prefer CCBS, at least as awesomely as the 2015 sets use it (some HF sets didn't use it to full effect at all.) We also don't seem to have as much of a sci-fi vibe in Gen 2 as in Gen 1, but then we didn't really have that in 2001 either.Kind of a mixed bag, really. I mean, I personally like to think of it as a new theme since it's getting a fresh start, kind of like how I'd consider a reboot of a classic cartoon like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles a new TV series. I feel the same way about the Space Police and Pirates themes from 2009, both of which were effectively reboots of classic themes. But like those two themes, the new BIONICLE obviously owes a lot of its design standards to the sets and story that came before it. And obviously we've now seen that it's not afraid to reference the old theme in both its set designs and animations, just like how the 2009 Space Police theme was loaded with references to LEGO Space themes from the 80s and 90s. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I consider the 2015 BIONICLE reboot a new LEGO theme — but not a new entertainment franchise. It still falls under the existing BIONICLE label, after all, and the fundamental nature of the franchise has not changed. These. Thank you so much for bringing this up. A lot of the time, a franchise isn't simply based on story, but also on it's setting, atmosphere, theme, characteristics, so on and so forth. So, that adds another element to the question, "Is this the same Bionicle?". In my opinion, the new Bionicle feels like something different than what it was before (which is fine), and should be treated as such. I really agree with Aanchir on this, though. Not exactly a new franchise, but perhaps a new theme. Oh, and one correction: the thing referring to a "new constraction theme" was not a formal release from LEGO, but rather an item on the LinkedIn resume of Advance employee Asger Johansen. Sorry 'bout that. My mistake. >.< - Edited December 19, 2014 by BioCry Quote :I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlexander Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) So, I've just come back from a who-knows-how-long hiatus to an uproar about the glorious return of our childhood, AKA Bionicle. But, is the Bionicle we know and love really returning? I recently watched a video from the great guys at TTV with a few really good points. Its most prominent one (to me, at least) being how nostalgia can have a huge effect on how we see things. In this case, it affects how we see this new toy line from Lego called "Bionicle". This got me thinking... As soon as the name was mentioned, fans began dancing and praising Lego for bringing back their beloved franchise. Although, Lego never mentioned that they were "bringing back" anything. In fact, a statement they made said that they were "releasing a new constraction line". While this "new constraction line" may pay homage to its predecessor, it has been established as something original and separate from what came before it. Then again, with the recent release of the 2015 Bionicle story and set animations, we have been hinted at a possible connection between storylines new and old. Although, these Vahi easter eggs could also simply turn out to be another form of homage. Only time will tell if there is any plot correlation. So, what do you think? Is "Bionicle" the same thing we knew and loved with a new story? Or, is it a brand new theme that is meant to remind us of the good times we had with our old toys? (Either way, I'm totally buying Tahu. ) - Ok, I'm not to fond of that Bionicle Autopsy because I liked Bionicle even excluding nostalgia and it felt very accusing. But, I will say I do like this Bionicle equally, if not better than the previous generation. The characters seem more fleshed out and the use of the CCBS system is awesome. I also love the animation style of the new 'show'. Edited December 19, 2014 by Forgeta 1 Quote |"We are the Turaga of the new generation." ~OwlexanderYouTube - Imgur - Flickr - Bionicle RPG Chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoSWfan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 It's like Transformers. There have been dozens of different iterations of the TF universe and story, but in the bigger picture, it still is Transformers. On a side note, don't we already have like 4 different topics for this?Up its called a multiverse! All transformer series take place in the same multiverse, the same could be true of both bionicle gens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyichir Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) It's like Transformers. There have been dozens of different iterations of the TF universe and story, but in the bigger picture, it still is Transformers. On a side note, don't we already have like 4 different topics for this? Up its called a multiverse! All transformer series take place in the same multiverse, the same could be true of both bionicle gens. Well, yes. But that doesn't actually MATTER unless the universes are sufficiently permeable. If the universes don't interact with one another substantially, then the knowledge that they occupied a shared multiverse would be akin to the knowledge that the 2nd Punic War was going on while the Great Wall of China was being constructed—interesting for fans, maybe, but irrelevant to the outcome of either story. We might learn later that the new story takes place in an alternate universe from the old one. It might even be one of an infinite number of alternate universes! And it's entirely possible that the universes might be connected in some way, be it via some early divergence in the history of both universes (if the differences between universes are based on causality) or via a few interlopers from the original universe traveling to the new one (if the differences between universes are just like the differences between different continents—linked by shared traits or elements). What's NOT going to happen, is the story transitioning back to the old universe to wrap up all its plot holes, to either lead in to where the original story started or continue where it left off. And a lot of the theories I've seen seem to be hoping for that. But that kind of bait-and-switch would undermine the whole point of the reboot by establishing a seemingly independent canon but then dumping 10 years' worth of problematic continuity into their lap, and I can't imagine Lego would be stupid enough to sabotage the new theme in that way. Edited December 19, 2014 by Lyichir 2 Quote Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence Aanchir's and Meiko's brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoSWfan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Problematic continuity? It wasn't THAT complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Borox Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Even if Lego doesn't out right say it, G2 Bionicle DOES take place in an alternate universe. Because G1 already established that Bionicle does have a present multiverse(if you really wanna get down to it, it's apart of DC's multiverse, and the Bionicle one doesn't exist on its own). Quote Political content removed. -B6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidhiki of the Shadows Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I wouldn't say "New Line" cause it still falls under Bionicle. It's not like Mars Mission which has a different name and overall aesthetic than Life on Mars - it is still Bionicle and retains the overall core motifs of the franchise. -NotS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyichir Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) Problematic continuity? It wasn't THAT complex. Um... yes it was. It definitely was. Its complexity was one of the main things that made it hard for the original theme to attract new fans, which in turn led to the theme's cancellation. This is well-documented (Here is the best primary source I've found on the subject, but I'm sure there were Greg answers and similar statements to the same effect if you care to look them up). And it's the main REASON the new story is made to be simpler and more accessible than the classic one—they're hoping to recreate the classic theme's success without dooming it to the same eventual failure. Edited December 19, 2014 by Lyichir Quote Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence Aanchir's and Meiko's brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoSWfan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I liked the hypercomplex back story. And I'm tired of you going around and grinding my opinions into dust just because they arnt the same as yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltex Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I liked the hypercomplex back story. And I'm tired of you going around and grinding my opinions into dust just because they arnt the same as yours. Liking it is totally fine - I like it too! But to say that the original Bionicle's storyline wasn't complex is to ignore the facts. It ran for ten years, which is an insane amount of time for a single storyline. Each year introduced new characters, locations, powers, tools, species, and more, and the storyline was split across video games, animations, movies, books, web serials, and comics. It was collapsing underneath its complexity. Quote JOIN AETHERGARDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoSWfan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 In my perspective, it wasn't that complex, not nearly as complex as say Halos story, or the Transformers G1 verse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aanchir Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) Yeah, it's fine to like the complexity. I liked the complexity to an extent, as exhausting as it made following the story towards the very end. But the fact that SOME people liked it doesn't mean it didn't harm the theme from a financial standpoint. A toy line needs to bring in new fans to remain successful, and BIONICLE was doing that less and less the more complex it got. Adding all that complexity accumulated over ten years to the reboot have would mean returning the theme to the brink of collapse like the state it was in in 2009 or 2010. Edited December 19, 2014 by Aanchir 2 Quote Latest MOC: PAIGE (Prototype Artificial Intelligence, Gynoid Expression) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoSWfan Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Its an opinion, you don't have to attack it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyichir Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) Its an opinion, you don't have to attack it. He is not attacking your opinion, nor was I. Your opinion is "I liked the complexity". That's a fine opinion! Both of us share that opinion, in fact! But what was good for people us was not necessarily what was good for the theme. The complexity of the classic Bionicle being a major factor in the theme's cancellation isn't my "opinion"—it's a fact, backed up by many, many statements from Lego representatives. And the difference between my opinion on the new Bionicle's lower complexity and yours is that while I appreciated the complexity of the original story, I am also perfectly happy with the new theme's simpler approach. It's basically the only way we were ever going to get more Bionicle, and so far I've been pleased with what I've seen. And if it can help bring new people into the fandom and make Bionicle bigger than ever? All the better, as far as I'm concerned. Edited December 20, 2014 by Lyichir 2 Quote Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence Aanchir's and Meiko's brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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