Polls Out Of "voting Booth"

[Toa of Nerds]

Personally, I believe that BZPower should allow members to make polls in GD, Sets, S&T, and other forums and eliminate the "voting booth" forum. The reason is that the voting booth has little purpose. Having a whole forum devoted to voting does not encourage discussion. The fact is that most responses to these polls just repeat the vote that that player gave. If you couch the polling feature within the discussion topics, then discussion would be encouraged as opposed to just mindless voting.Another point is that making polls is a perk for premier members. While I think that people who donate to this site should be rewarded, I don't think giving normal members the ability to make polls is a big deal. For one, making polls is far from the biggest premier member perk (I think most would agree that the biggest perk is the blogs). Furthermore, it is very easy for a normal member to circumnavigate the restriction by just getting a PM to post whatever they wanted to most, making the whole restriction irrelevant.What are your thoughts on this?-don't touch my pocket protector

[Taka Nuvia]

I actually enjoy the voting booth, for it's a nice place to go if you have some free time to spend. And I just can't imagine having polls in the artwork forums (it probably would end with "Do you like this comic/drawing?" "What should I do next?" and similar), or see how getting them into the entire forums would improve discussion. :shrugs:As for making polls available for all members, I'd be okay with that.^^Just my thoughts.

[Peach 00]

I agree with Taka, poll-making being made available to all members would be great. And, actually, the voting booth is a very versatile or all-around forum. There is heated discussion there, you can check some of the topics. In the topics, it isn't limited to just saying what you voted. You can say why you voted, your opinion, etc.. And, polls in all the forums would indeed get messy or unorganized. Some topics don't have to be polls, or some topics don't have to be topics. =P Still, I personally like it the way it is.(Heh, I'm half-tempted to say this could be a poll. )

[Sumiki]

Could you imagine the spam that would be created by doing such a thing?Right now, posts do not count in the voting booth. There is a reason for this - most posts state what option the member voted for and nothing more. Since it does not contribute to post count, some people don't even post - they just vote.If there was the ability to create polls in every forum, then it would be hard or impossible with the forum to make it so they don't count towards your posts. That's part of the reason why polls have a different forum - you can set whole forums to not count in post totals. (Contest polls, probably to encourage voting, count towards post count.) If the current mostly-anywhere-else-on-the-forum-it's-spam posts that populate the Voting Booth would become counted - thus encouraging the spam. If they ever were integrated, the staff would have to make it a requirement to discuss your answer. I have often thought that if they made it a requirement to discuss your reasons why, made posts count, and eliminated simple statement posts, then the Voting Booth could turn into a forum full of great discussions. This sometimes still happens, but a few rule tweaks could improve it. (It would make sense either way, from an aesthetic perspective - either have them all in one forum or have them spread out.)On another note, COT polls wouldn't be too bad - if, again, the now-spam posts are eliminated.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Sumiki

[Taka Nuvia]

Could you imagine the spam that would be created by doing such a thing?Right now, posts do not count in the voting booth. There is a reason for this - most posts state what option the member voted for and nothing more. Since it does not contribute to post count, some people don't even post - they just vote.If there was the ability to create polls in every forum, then it would be hard or impossible with the forum to make it so they don't count towards your posts. That's part of the reason why polls have a different forum - you can set whole forums to not count in post totals. (Contest polls, probably to encourage voting, count towards post count.) If the current mostly-anywhere-else-on-the-forum-it's-spam posts that populate the Voting Booth would become counted - thus encouraging the spam. If they ever were integrated, the staff would have to make it a requirement to discuss your answer. I have often thought that if they made it a requirement to discuss your reasons why, made posts count, and eliminated simple statement posts, then the Voting Booth could turn into a forum full of great discussions. This sometimes still happens, but a few rule tweaks could improve it. (It would make sense either way, from an aesthetic perspective - either have them all in one forum or have them spread out.)On another note, COT polls wouldn't be too bad - if, again, the now-spam posts are eliminated.

Then again, some of the polls in the Voting booth don't really encourage discussion, not at last because most of the "Yes/no" topics go there simply because there isn't much to discuss. However, if you come up with a poll covering a controversial topic or something people have different opinions about (maybe "Feminine sets - yes/no?"), chances are higher that there will be a debate, and that there will be longer posts.I do agree with the post-count thingie, though. I guess it would be kind of annoying...Also enjoy the coT poll idea, but I fear it wouldn't work well.

[Sumiki]

I've seen discussions emanate from relatively simple yes/no polls (albeit it's much rarer). Those types of polls seem to have a lot of in-depth arguments for their choice even in something as simple as "do you like a set?".

[Phauxx Lightning]

Eh, things would be simpler all in one place. I like it this way. If posts counted, that would be nice. Then I'd actually go there.

[fishers64]

Could you imagine the spam that would be created by doing such a thing?Right now, posts do not count in the voting booth. There is a reason for this - most posts state what option the member voted for and nothing more. Since it does not contribute to post count, some people don't even post - they just vote.If there was the ability to create polls in every forum, then it would be hard or impossible with the forum to make it so they don't count towards your posts. That's part of the reason why polls have a different forum - you can set whole forums to not count in post totals. (Contest polls, probably to encourage voting, count towards post count.) If the current mostly-anywhere-else-on-the-forum-it's-spam posts that populate the Voting Booth would become counted - thus encouraging the spam. If they ever were integrated, the staff would have to make it a requirement to discuss your answer. I have often thought that if they made it a requirement to discuss your reasons why, made posts count, and eliminated simple statement posts, then the Voting Booth could turn into a forum full of great discussions. This sometimes still happens, but a few rule tweaks could improve it. (It would make sense either way, from an aesthetic perspective - either have them all in one forum or have them spread out.)On another note, COT polls wouldn't be too bad - if, again, the now-spam posts are eliminated.

Oh, so that's why posts don't count in the voting booth. *bonks head with kolhii stick*But anyway, have to agree with this, except when discussion does occur in the voting booth, it doesn't add to your post count, sadly.And polls are actually a strong factor in whether I will ever become a Premier member or not. But since the Admins have chosen not to block my poll-posting capabilities yet, I'm not going to ruffle feathers. Edited November 7, 2011 by fishers64

[Ballom Nom Nom]

Yeah, I agree that this would lead to way too many instances of pointless posts merely for count inflation.~B~

[Taka Nuvia]

I've seen discussions emanate from relatively simple yes/no polls (albeit it's much rarer). Those types of polls seem to have a lot of in-depth arguments for their choice even in something as simple as "do you like a set?".

I guess it depends; also, I admit that discussions can come up everywhere. However, from what I've seen discussions are not overly common in the Voting Booth Edited November 7, 2011 by Taka Nuvia

[Bambi]

I don't spend much time there, so it doesn't make a difference to me.

[bonesiii]

Personally, I believe that BZPower should allow members to make polls in GD, Sets, S&T, and other forums and eliminate the "voting booth" forum. The reason is that the voting booth has little purpose. Having a whole forum devoted to voting does not encourage discussion. The fact is that most responses to these polls just repeat the vote that that player gave. If you couch the polling feature within the discussion topics, then discussion would be encouraged as opposed to just mindless voting.

Off the top of my head, this seems like a valid possibility. I have often worried that the polls don't get enough attention. On the other hand, the way it's done now is valid and probably smarter, as you're more likely to get a representative cross-sample this way. If a poll, for example, about "Favorite Toa" is in S&T, mostly only people who regularly frequent S&T will vote, so it will be slanted towards a story-focused bias. So the results will be much less reliable.I think the best solution is just for all of us to make an effort to every once in a while go through and vote in most new polls.True, I'm not here addressing your point about discussion, but a lot of times discussion isn't needed; the vote says what needs to be said. If it is, people are free to do so now in the polls. And I've seen plenty of discussions happen in polls.(That said, for example, we on the Story Squad do often start with a discussion topic in S&T first before going to the polls. But most polls don't need that kind of caution; they're just informal curiosity.)[Edit: In other words, just because they didn't go in depth into their reasons in a post doesn't mean the vote was 'mindless.' ]

Another point is that making polls is a perk for premier members. While I think that people who donate to this site should be rewarded, I don't think giving normal members the ability to make polls is a big deal.

But that logic could have us taking away all perks and making them open to anyone. Also, asking a Premier to do it for you is no big deal anyways, so what's the issue? Besides, this gives us a filter so that a lot of spammy polls don't get made. Watch the VB on the days when we open it up to everyone, and you'll see that wouldn't work well all the time.

For one, making polls is far from the biggest premier member perk (I think most would agree that the biggest perk is the blogs).

I agree, but that reasoning doesn't lead to the conclusion that some perks can't be lesser than others. Also, you would do well, I think, to read the recent news about the closure of LEGO Universe. It's tempting to think like "they could get by with less" but we have run a successful financial system here for ten years, and the LU end shows that you can't always get by. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Edited November 8, 2011 by bonesiii

[Toa of Nerds]

Personally, I believe that BZPower should allow members to make polls in GD, Sets, S&T, and other forums and eliminate the "voting booth" forum. The reason is that the voting booth has little purpose. Having a whole forum devoted to voting does not encourage discussion. The fact is that most responses to these polls just repeat the vote that that player gave. If you couch the polling feature within the discussion topics, then discussion would be encouraged as opposed to just mindless voting.

Off the top of my head, this seems like a valid possibility. I have often worried that the polls don't get enough attention. On the other hand, the way it's done now is valid and probably smarter, as you're more likely to get a representative cross-sample this way. If a poll, for example, about "Favorite Toa" is in S&T, mostly only people who regularly frequent S&T will vote, so it will be slanted towards a story-focused bias. So the results will be much less reliable.I think the best solution is just for all of us to make an effort to every once in a while go through and vote in most new polls.True, I'm not here addressing your point about discussion, but a lot of times discussion isn't needed; the vote says what needs to be said. If it is, people are free to do so now in the polls. And I've seen plenty of discussions happen in polls.(That said, for example, we on the Story Squad do often start with a discussion topic in S&T first before going to the polls. But most polls don't need that kind of caution; they're just informal curiosity.)[Edit: In other words, just because they didn't go in depth into their reasons in a post doesn't mean the vote was 'mindless.' ]

I don't believe that you'll ever get a scientific sample in an internet poll. The only way to do it would be to get a random sample by PMing a certain number of active members, which is not a good idea.

Another point is that making polls is a perk for premier members. While I think that people who donate to this site should be rewarded, I don't think giving normal members the ability to make polls is a big deal.

But that logic could have us taking away all perks and making them open to anyone. Also, asking a Premier to do it for you is no big deal anyways, so what's the issue? Besides, this gives us a filter so that a lot of spammy polls don't get made. Watch the VB on the days when we open it up to everyone, and you'll see that wouldn't work well all the time.

I disagree. Normal members have no ability to create a blog, no access to special ranking pics, and have to have a PM stay on as an active co-host to start a game. But for a poll, you just as PM and he'll do it. The fact that it isn't such a big deal is my point. It isn't really a perk at all because you could do it almost as easily before. I don't believe that fewer people will become PMs just because making polls isn't a perk. Also, as of right now, VB is open to everybody because everybody has premier perks, you be the judge of whether it's spammier now than before.Now: http://www.bzpower.c...hp?showforum=15Before: http://www.bzpower.c...hp?showforum=15

For one, making polls is far from the biggest premier member perk (I think most would agree that the biggest perk is the blogs).

I agree, but that reasoning doesn't lead to the conclusion that some perks can't be lesser than others. Also, you would do well, I think, to read the recent news about the closure of LEGO Universe. It's tempting to think like "they could get by with less" but we have run a successful financial system here for ten years, and the LU end shows that you can't always get by. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Don't get me wrong. I think that premier membership has really helped BZPower stay afloat all these years and I am absolutely not saying that it should stop. All that I'm saying is that making polls is not a big perk at all. All a normal member has to do is to just PM a friendly PM and get his poll set up.-don't touch my pocket protector

[Akuna Toa of Sonics]

There's a Voting Booth forum?/sarcasmI don't go there regularly; posts don't count there. I don't think it would be a good idea to allow polls outside of the forum. Too much spam.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Akuna Toa of Sonics

[bonesiii]

I don't believe that you'll ever get a scientific sample in an internet poll. The only way to do it would be to get a random sample by PMing a certain number of active members, which is not a good idea.

Well, I agree -- and even scientific polls can't be perfect unless they ask literally everybody. But that also doesn't logically mean that we should stop caring about it -- so my point stands, doesn't it? The VB will be more scientific than putting them in other forums.

I disagree. Normal members have no ability to create a blog, no access to special ranking pics, and have to have a PM stay on as an active co-host to start a game. But for a poll, you just as PM and he'll do it. The fact that it isn't such a big deal is my point. It isn't really a perk at all because you could do it almost as easily before.

But again, all this means is it's less a perk than other things. It's still a perk. And this is subjective -- perhaps you see rank images and games as better perks? I don't, personally. (Not sure if I'm reading too much into your words, though; I understand you're talking about difficulty.)Besides, if it's so easy, then what does it matter? And I agree, it is easy as long as you know of an active Premier to ask. Changing it wouldn't, by your own reasoning, significantly affect how easy it is, but it -would open the VB up to a lot of spam.So again I think it comes down to that the benefits of the current system outweight the negatives, overall.

I don't believe that fewer people will become PMs just because making polls isn't a perk.

You don't at all? Or do you mean "not enough fewer to matter"? I find it very believable that at least a few wouldn't. Maybe not enough to matter... or maybe. Again, it ain't broke, so let's not fix it, yeah?

All that I'm saying is that making polls is not a big perk at all. All a normal member has to do is to just PM a friendly PM and get his poll set up.

Well, have you considered that that isn't all that can make it a perk for some people? Some people seem to enjoy being the one to pollify things for people, and get a reputation as the go-to guys for that. So it can be a perk in a social sense too. Edited November 8, 2011 by bonesiii

[Queen of Noise]

Nobody is taking my Voting Booth away from me.

[GeluNumber1]

I think that polls should stay in the Voting Booth forum. Otherwise, people would post to rapidly inflate their post count.

[Taipu1]

I think this is a great idea. I always right more than just my answer in voting booth, but it's in vain, because it never promotes discussion. Although I'm not sure if allowing voting in all forums might kill discussion altogether...

[Taka Nuvia]

I think this is a great idea. I always right more than just my answer in voting booth, but it's in vain, because it never promotes discussion. Although I'm not sure if allowing voting in all forums might kill discussion altogether...

Maybe that's also because it's hard to scroll through, let's say, 5 pages of *my reply here* until you get to an interesting, well-written, thought-provoking reply...

[Toa of Nerds]

These quote tags have become a mess, so I'm responding in paragraph form. First of all no internet poll is scientific. A poll in VB is not scientific and a poll in GD is not scientific. The point of an internet poll is not to be scientific. The point is to provide a vehicle for discussion, and I belive that in their current place, they are failing that function.My point is that polls should be moved so that they can create more discussion, not just to give members access to them. The fact is that it is so easy to dodge the PM requirement that it doesn't matter whether you make them PM only or available to everybody, there's not real effect.There may be people who only became PMs because of the polls, I don't know. But I maintain that the majority of people who become PMs do it for the games, images, and blogs. Not for the polls. I guess the only way to figure out is to poll them, though . Speaking of which, I think that's a good idea...EDIT: I made that poll, and it can be accessed here: http://www.bzpower.c...?showtopic=1842-don't touch my pocket protector

Edited November 19, 2011 by Toa of Nerds