Which known unused plot point had the most potential?

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

Making Ahkmou a Toa of Shadows in 2008 would have had a dramatic impact on the Toa, particularly Pohatu, because although he was already a known traitor, they were sworn to protect him -- specifically him (he was a resident of their island). We never saw an actual Toa of Shadows from the main reality, just those AU Takanuva Tridax collected and then Mazeka and Light Teridax slaughtered. Plus it would have kept his treacherous tendencies relevant, more than that "Turaga" position Teridax awarded him in 2009 (can we just take a moment to appreciate the fact that Ahkmou was the only minion Teridax cared enough about to reward instead of throw under the bus?).

[Master Inika]

Kongu was capable of reading minds on Voya Nui, where Zaktan was, and never figured out Makuta's plan, which Zaktan knew.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

18 minutes ago, Master Inika said:

Kongu was capable of reading minds on Voya Nui, where Zaktan was, and never figured out Makuta's plan, which Zaktan knew.

Dun-dun-DUUUUN!

Maybe the protodite thing threw him off. They were basically slaves to Zaktan’s mind, but they had enough autonomy that they didn’t all have to do the exact same thing at a time. Kongu also had trouble “turning off” his mask, so it’s possible he just couldn’t “hear” Zaktan clearly enough.

But this topic was really about plot points we know the story team had considered, and ended up rejecting (the Makuta-worshipping seventh tribe in MNOG, Toa Dume being featured in some capacity in 2005, etc.)

Edited November 22, 2025 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese

[Nato G]

I strongly believe Dume was originally meant to be an outright villain. He was arrogant and stubborn to a degree that put lives at risk, he ran his city like a dystopian police state long before Makuta replaced him, and those scenes in Legends of Metru Nui where Makuta is basically talking to himself make way more sense if they're interpreted as leftovers from an earlier version of the script where Dume was a corrupt politician type of character working for Makuta. 

I really would have liked to see this idea played straight. Seeing the burden of duty twist a once-great hero into a villain would have been a great way to make the Toa question their own role as heroes. Being betrayed by their own Turaga would have gone a long way towards justifying some of the questionable decisions the Toa Metru made when they became Turaga. The fact that all of the awful stuff Dume did got no consequences and everyone went right back to following his orders when the Matoran returned to Metru Nui has always bothered me. 

18 hours ago, Cheesy Mac n Cheese said:

(can we just take a moment to appreciate the fact that Ahkmou was the only minion Teridax cared enough about to reward instead of throw under the bus?).

He also saved Roodaka after she freed him. He could have easily left her to die once her job was completed, like he did with the Makuta he sent to Karda Nui. (Though I guess he wasn't happy with losing the Visorak Horde and the imprisoned Matoran of Metru Nui, since Roodaka basically got sidelined after that point in the story). 

Edited November 22, 2025 by Nato G

[Master Inika]

1 hour ago, Nato G said:

I strongly believe Dume was originally meant to be an outright villain. He was arrogant and stubborn to a degree that put lives at risk, he ran his city like a dystopian police state long before Makuta replaced him, and those scenes in Legends of Metru Nui where Makuta is basically talking to himself make way more sense if they're interpreted as leftovers from an earlier version of the script where Dume was a corrupt politician type of character working for Makuta. 

I really would have liked to see this idea played straight. Seeing the burden of duty twist a once-great hero into a villain would have been a great way to make the heroes question their own role as heroes. Being betrayed by their Turaga would have gone a long way towards justifying some of the questionable decisions the Toa Metru made when they became Turaga. The fact that all of the awful stuff Dume did got no consequences and everyone went right back to following his orders when the Matoran returned to Metru Nui has always bothered me. 

He also saved Roodaka after she freed him. He could have easily left her to die once her job was completed, like he did with the Makuta he sent to Karda Nui. (Though I guess he wasn't happy with losing the Visorak Horde and the imprisoned Matoran of Metru Nui, since Roodaka basically got sidelined after that point in the story). 

This is a good point. I vaguely recall in Island of Doom that there was the implication that his austerity was tempered now by the presence of the other Turaga but you're right that it's strange this wasn't a bigger plot point. Even as a kid I perceived something of an anti-authoritarian message in that Dume, even if not evil himself, acted evil enough that Makuta was able to pretend to be him for months without anyone realizing something was wrong. That we never saw Toa Dume, or learned much about what his and Lhikan's relationship was like. I would have assumed that he was always a grump, perhaps born somewhere like Nidhiki where there was no room for sentimentality.

I wonder if him saving Roodaka was to prevent her from divulging sensitive info (if she knew anything greater about the Plan) or if she still had some utility to him and rescuing her would keep him able to benefit from her. I wonder if the Rahaga being turned back into Toa was something Makuta wanted to happen, an unforeseen inconvenience, or irrelevant to him.

[TahnokTrapper]

8 hours ago, Nato G said:

I strongly believe Dume was originally meant to be an outright villain. He was arrogant and stubborn to a degree that put lives at risk, he ran his city like a dystopian police state long before Makuta replaced him, and those scenes in Legends of Metru Nui where Makuta is basically talking to himself make way more sense if they're interpreted as leftovers from an earlier version of the script where Dume was a corrupt politician type of character working for Makuta. 

I really would have liked to see this idea played straight. Seeing the burden of duty twist a once-great hero into a villain would have been a great way to make the heroes question their own role as heroes. Being betrayed by their Turaga would have gone a long way towards justifying some of the questionable decisions the Toa Metru made when they became Turaga. The fact that all of the awful stuff Dume did got no consequences and everyone went right back to following his orders when the Matoran returned to Metru Nui has always bothered me.

Duuuuuuude, that sounds like such a better character than we ultimately got! Probably because it makes Dume an actual character...

One missed opportunity, not counting Bionicle's premature end (I will forever weep for those bio-mechanical dinosaurs 😔), were those hints from Mask of Light of Makuta actually caring for Mata Nui's well-being. Like with Dume, it feels like there was a interesting angle that was never explored.

[kawaii kitty]

9 hours ago, Nato G said:

strongly believe Dume was originally meant to be an outright villain. He was arrogant and stubborn to a degree that put lives at risk, he ran his city like a dystopian police state long before Makuta replaced him, and those scenes in Legends of Metru Nui where Makuta is basically talking to himself make way more sense if they're interpreted as leftovers from an earlier version of the script where Dume was a corrupt politician type of character working for Makuta. 

 

just perfect. he could have been a side villain afterwards, and at point greg would have killed him off like every other side villain. if you couldn't tell, that's my missed opportunity. not killing everyone in 2010 would have done a lot for the future of the story in general

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

I think Dume was kind of humbled after the Great Cataclysm (in The Dweller Report he actually fights alongside the Rahaga, though that wasn’t actually written by the story team), but he definitely still lacked a full connection with the others. He trusted the other Turaga and the Toa Nuva with the knowledge that Mata Nui was dying (while it seems obvious to share this kind of information with the rest of your ruling council and your heroes, keep in mind Dume was not used to sharing authority), but he kept his people and even Takanuva in the dark about it.

I didn’t think about the Roodaka thing (the Toa weren’t trying to kill her, right? They were attempting to do a Toa Seal, I think…come to think of it, how did he do it? He wasn’t in the Coliseum…). It’s possible he saw more use for her, though if he foresaw her double agent role in the Dark Hunter war, he would’ve left her there. Were the Toa Hagah necessary for the plan? If so, maybe that’s why.

[Lorentz]

On 11/21/2025 at 10:05 PM, Master Inika said:

Kongu was capable of reading minds on Voya Nui, where Zaktan was, and never figured out Makuta's plan, which Zaktan knew.

Unless Zaktan was actively thinking about the plan, Kongu wouldn't have known.

[The 1st Shadow]

6 hours ago, Lorentz said:

Unless Zaktan was actively thinking about the plan, Kongu wouldn't have known.

In Marvel Comics, there are characters like Kitty Pryde whose powers make their minds unstable, and therefore, unreadable to telepaths. Zaktan's minds being dispersed between trillions of protodites probably works the same way. We see Kongu actively able to read the subconscious of the Kanohi Ignika itself, and project those thoughts into the unstable mind of Vezon. and when he was first learning his mask's power, he picked up on Hewkii's general discomfort about the sudden change of armor color, rather than an actually coherent thought. If he couldn't pick Zaktan's brain the same way, then it has to be because Zaktan doesn't exist the same way other beings do, and something about his makeup makes it impossible to read his mind.

[InconspicuousShark]

On 11/22/2025 at 4:33 AM, Nato G said:

I strongly believe Dume was originally meant to be an outright villain. He was arrogant and stubborn to a degree that put lives at risk, he ran his city like a dystopian police state long before Makuta replaced him, and those scenes in Legends of Metru Nui where Makuta is basically talking to himself make way more sense if they're interpreted as leftovers from an earlier version of the script where Dume was a corrupt politician type of character working for Makuta. 

I really would have liked to see this idea played straight. Seeing the burden of duty twist a once-great hero into a villain would have been a great way to make the Toa question their own role as heroes. Being betrayed by their own Turaga would have gone a long way towards justifying some of the questionable decisions the Toa Metru made when they became Turaga. The fact that all of the awful stuff Dume did got no consequences and everyone went right back to following his orders when the Matoran returned to Metru Nui has always bothered me. 

He also saved Roodaka after she freed him. He could have easily left her to die once her job was completed, like he did with the Makuta he sent to Karda Nui. (Though I guess he wasn't happy with losing the Visorak Horde and the imprisoned Matoran of Metru Nui, since Roodaka basically got sidelined after that point in the story). 

There are leaked story documents from as early as 2002 that predate the mirror scenes. Dume was originally meant to be flat out dead (and dismembered) with Makuta impersonating him. He was never planned to be working with the Makuta. 

[kawaii kitty]

it's not hard to see why that didn't happen.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

On 11/25/2025 at 12:12 AM, InconspicuousShark said:

There are leaked story documents from as early as 2002 that predate the mirror scenes. Dume was originally meant to be flat out dead (and dismembered) with Makuta impersonating him. He was never planned to be working with the Makuta. 

….dismembered? Was there some reason that needed to be the case?

[JAG18]

2 hours ago, Cheesy Mac n Cheese said:

….dismembered? Was there some reason that needed to be the case?

Because the mid-2000s were the height of "edge" (exhibit A: the Piraka).  

[kawaii kitty]

3 hours ago, JAG18 said:

Because the mid-2000s were the height of "edge"

'hip with the kids'. because kids want that? even the piraka weren't that bad.

[JAG18]

16 hours ago, kawaii kitty said:

'hip with the kids'. because kids want that? even the piraka weren't that bad.

I think of it more like a lot of artists at that time (and really especially in the 90s) wanted to make everything dark (deservedly or not) and in this case Lego didn't veto it maybe because their marketing told them a lot of media was dark at the time.  Although, edge has limits since I'm guessing they vetoed a disassembled Turaga Dume.

Also, after thinking about it for a bit, the Piraka:

1. Their name literally means "thief and murderer".
2. Casually joked and bragged about killing Toa.
3. Hakann killed a herd of animals for the lulz.
4. Enslaved a bunch of Matoran.
5. A Matoran they were forcing to work fell into the volcano and Thok made a joke about it.
6. Heavily employed gang-like imagery.
7. Zaktan told an illusion of his species' boogeyman that he was scarier than him.  

Plus some more stuff I'm probably forgetting.  You can argue that Gen 1 Bionicle always had dark moments (from a bunch of Matoran freezing to death off-screen in MNOG to Tuyet getting cut in half in 2008) but I feel like the Piraka were the most in your face about it.  

[kawaii kitty]

wow! i forgot how bad they really were! Lego was really going all out on the edge. it was a different time, where lego saw a opportunity to appeal to the general population, particularly older kids. however, it's impossible to say how well any of this was communicated in any of the media. most people probably just though it was a corporation missing the point.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

5 hours ago, JAG18 said:

Plus some more stuff I'm probably forgetting.

The Piraka were really the first villains who actually came close to successfully killing the Toa Nuva. You know, the beloved original six heroes we’d followed for five years by that point. Nobody else did before because A: Teridax and his direct minions were the main villains of 2001 and the second half of 2003, and he actually needed them to be alive for his plans to succeed, and B: the Bohrok and Bohrok-Kal didn’t really care about killing them because their goal was to cleanse the island of Mata Nui, and they would only fight them if they got in the way. Meanwhile, the Piraka beat the Toa Nuva to a pulp (and Zaktan gave Tahu a pretty bad puncture wound that is described in disturbingly graphic textual detail), then stole their masks and dragged them to the crater of Mount Valmai with the intent of dropping them into it. The plan was only abandoned when the volcano began to erupt and the Piraka bailed to save their own skins. I was personally convinced the Toa Nuva were going to die in 2006 before Greg said they couldn’t die because that would disrupt the long-term narrative.

Edited November 29, 2025 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese

[kawaii kitty]

14 hours ago, Cheesy Mac n Cheese said:

before Greg said they couldn’t die because that would disrupt the long-term narrative.

it would have been nice if greg didn't't say things like that. kind of immersion breaking, with the stakes feeling much lower. 

Edited November 29, 2025 by kawaii kitty
spelling

[InconspicuousShark]

On 11/27/2025 at 5:44 PM, Cheesy Mac n Cheese said:

….dismembered? Was there some reason that needed to be the case?

Many Matoran were as well IIRC. This was the same draft of the 2004 story that started off with Vakama being the mask maker in a Matoran building factory, so perhaps the Makuta was planning to reuse the metal for something? 

[kawaii kitty]

6 hours ago, InconspicuousShark said:

so perhaps the Makuta was planning to reuse the metal for something? 

it's all part of the plan, trust him