What If

[CarumEsSarene]

What if Hahli never won the match in Ga-Koro in MNOGII? She wouldn't have continued through the championship so what would happen in MoL?

Edited June 1, 2015 by CarumEsSarene

[Owlexander]

Never played MNOGII... so I wouldn't know. :/

[ToaKapura1234]

You mean Hahli?

[CarumEsSarene]

You mean Hahli?

I blame the autocorrect -.-

[Owlexander]

 

You mean Hahli?

I blame the autocorrect -.-

 

 

Wait... your autocorrect corrected Hahli to Gali...?

 

 

...that's a pretty neat phone.

[ToaKapura1234]

My phone once corrected me when I typed the wrong first name(but still an actual name) of an obscure fictional character. Iphones scare me.

 

Edit: Realizes he just typed off topic SPAM. Decides to actually contribute to the discussion.

 

Would really anything have changed? Ko Koro would probably have gone to the championship, there would have been no flirting between supposedly asexual characters in MoL and Takua and Jaller would have done the exact same stuff.

Edited June 1, 2015 by ToaKapura1234

[Makuta Luroka]

I'd imagine the championship would likely go to either Ta-koro or Po-koro. I doubt Hahli would become the temp chronicler when Takua became Takanuva though.

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

At most, someone else would have become the chronicler. I reckon she'd still become a Toa as (if my memory is correct) Jaller assembled the team based on people he knew and/or trusted. Even if Ga-Koro never got far during the championship, she fought with Jaller against the Bohrok swarms, which counts far more than a sports game.

[fishers64]

At most, someone else would have become the chronicler. I reckon she'd still become a Toa as (if my memory is correct) Jaller assembled the team based on people he knew and/or trusted. Even if Ga-Koro never got far during the championship, she fought with Jaller against the Bohrok swarms, which counts far more than a sports game.

Yarr, but there's also in-story awareness and marketing factors at play when these story decisions get hammered out. It's not all straight story logic, unfortunately. 

[SPIRIT]

I guess worst case scenario, Hahli never goes on her adventures and never becomes Chronicler. Then she's not present at Kini Nui to tell Takanuva to bring Jaller's mask to Mangaia. Jaller never comes back to life and never takes the initiative to try to rescue the Toa Nuva. Teridax influences the Piraka into retrieving the Mask of Life and sends them with it through Mahri Nui into Karda Nui. Another team of Toa sent by the Order of Mata Nui tries to gain control of the Codrex, but they are beaten by the Piraka. Vezon's life force is absorbed by the mask and he becomes the savior of the universe by bringing Mata Nui back to life. Teridax takes over Mata Nui's body and sends Mata Nui's spirit in the Mask of Life to Bara Magna. Teridax comes to destroy Mata Nui for good and is successful when Tahu isn't there to kill his Rahkshi.

 

Then the Makuta was free to unleash his shadows, and unleash them he did.

[Sharnak the Bohrok Lord]

Wait, weren't all Matoran gathered at Kini-Nui? Wouldn't she have been there anyway?

[Toa Smoke Monster]

Never played MNOGII... so I wouldn't know. :/

This is basically my answer as well. Though I would imagine that if it was part of Hahli's destiny to play a part in the events of MoL, a way would've been found for her to achieve that part of it, regardless if her team was in the finals or not.

[ToaKapura1234]

I guess worst case scenario, Hahli never goes on her adventures and never becomes Chronicler. Then she's not present at Kini Nui to tell Takanuva to bring Jaller's mask to Mangaia. Jaller never comes back to life and never takes the initiative to try to rescue the Toa Nuva. Teridax influences the Piraka into retrieving the Mask of Life and sends them with it through Mahri Nui into Karda Nui. Another team of Toa sent by the Order of Mata Nui tries to gain control of the Codrex, but they are beaten by the Piraka. Vezon's life force is absorbed by the mask and he becomes the savior of the universe by bringing Mata Nui back to life. Teridax takes over Mata Nui's body and sends Mata Nui's spirit in the Mask of Life to Bara Magna. Teridax comes to destroy Mata Nui for good and is successful when Tahu isn't there to kill his Rahkshi.

Then the Makuta was free to unleash his shadows, and unleash them he did.

Woah. You put way more thought into this than anyone else in this topic. Bravo. And this all actually makes sense.

[CarumEsSarene]

Wait, weren't all Matoran gathered at Kini-Nui? Wouldn't she have been there anyway?

Yes, but in MoL the turaga and toa enter first, the matoran stayed back until they were given a signal (the light from the virtues sign) Hahli wouldn't have come along because she wasn't there ahead of time (with the three turaga) instead it would've been either Matoro, Kongu, or Taipu. Who wouldn't give Jaller a second thought. The mask would've been left at Kini-Nui and not taken along.

[ToaKapura1234]

Actually I'm not sure no one would have given him a second thought and Takatanuva could have sent someone to fetch his best friend's mask.

[CarumEsSarene]

Actually I'm not sure no one would have given him a second thought and Takatanuva could have sent someone to fetch his best friend's mask.

Makuta destroyed the entrance. It would have taken too long. And when Takunuva hesistated at the end, it hinted that if he stayed fused with Makuta too long he could have easily taken over. He had to check to make sure Makuta wasn't lingering inside him.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

I guess worst case scenario, Hahli never goes on her adventures and never becomes Chronicler. Then she's not present at Kini Nui to tell Takanuva to bring Jaller's mask to Mangaia. Jaller never comes back to life and never takes the initiative to try to rescue the Toa Nuva. Teridax influences the Piraka into retrieving the Mask of Life and sends them with it through Mahri Nui into Karda Nui. Another team of Toa sent by the Order of Mata Nui tries to gain control of the Codrex, but they are beaten by the Piraka. Vezon's life force is absorbed by the mask and he becomes the savior of the universe by bringing Mata Nui back to life. Teridax takes over Mata Nui's body and sends Mata Nui's spirit in the Mask of Life to Bara Magna. Teridax comes to destroy Mata Nui for good and is successful when Tahu isn't there to kill his Rahkshi.

 

Then the Makuta was free to unleash his shadows, and unleash them he did.

First off, love that last line, i say it myself every now and then, and my brother goes like, "What the Heck man?".

 

Couple of things to note: Not sure it was Vezon's destiny to hold the Ignika curse-free and use it appropriately, and you seem to have forgotten that Barraki stood in the way between Mahri-Nui and Karda-Nui.

 

I think Makuta would have possessed as something and/or influenced him to go to Voya-Nui (though as just a matoran, maybe he still would have turned into a Toa). But that only works if Makuta knew of Matoro's primary destiny.

 

If this was just a half-answer and half-joke, then that explains.

[Thormen]

Couple of things to note: Not sure it was Vezon's destiny to hold the Ignika curse-free and use it appropriately, and you seem to have forgotten that Barraki stood in the way between Mahri-Nui and Karda-Nui.

 

I think Makuta would have possessed as something and/or influenced him to go to Voya-Nui (though as just a matoran, maybe he still would have turned into a Toa). But that only works if Makuta knew of Matoro's primary destiny.

 

If this was just a half-answer and half-joke, then that explains.

The point you make about destiny is a very good point, it actually plays a far greater role here. Matoro was destined to revive the Great Spirit and the Toa Inika were destined to assist him, so I'm not so sure we can say they wouldn't have gone to Voya Nui if Jaller hadn't been there to persuade them. Destiny would have made it so that one way or another they made their way to the Kanohi Ignika. Of course the question that remains is whether they would've rescued the Nuva along the way in this alternate scenario the way they rescued them in the actual timeline, but what's important there is that the Makuta wanted the Nuva to survive until they could awaken the Great Spirit and he essentially was in control of what was going on on Voya Nui.

 

And yeah I don't know how serious SPIRIT's post was intended to be, but I think essentially destiny and the Makuta would've made it so the Nuva wouldn't die before they were supposed to awaken the Great Spirit.

[SPIRIT]

 

Couple of things to note: Not sure it was Vezon's destiny to hold the Ignika curse-free and use it appropriately, and you seem to have forgotten that Barraki stood in the way between Mahri-Nui and Karda-Nui. I think Makuta would have possessed as something and/or influenced him to go to Voya-Nui (though as just a matoran, maybe he still would have turned into a Toa). But that only works if Makuta knew of Matoro's primary destiny. If this was just a half-answer and half-joke, then that explains.

The point you make about destiny is a very good point, it actually plays a far greater role here. Matoro was destined to revive the Great Spirit and the Toa Inika were destined to assist him, so I'm not so sure we can say they wouldn't have gone to Voya Nui if Jaller hadn't been there to persuade them. Destiny would have made it so that one way or another they made their way to the Kanohi Ignika. Of course the question that remains is whether they would've rescued the Nuva along the way in this alternate scenario the way they rescued them in the actual timeline, but what's important there is that the Makuta wanted the Nuva to survive until they could awaken the Great Spirit and he essentially was in control of what was going on on Voya Nui.And yeah I don't know how serious SPIRIT's post was intended to be, but I think essentially destiny and the Makuta would've made it so the Nuva wouldn't die before they were supposed to awaken the Great Spirit.

At the risk of getting embroiled in another destiny vs. fate discussion, destiny can change, otherwise how else would there be parallel universes?

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

 

Couple of things to note: Not sure it was Vezon's destiny to hold the Ignika curse-free and use it appropriately, and you seem to have forgotten that Barraki stood in the way between Mahri-Nui and Karda-Nui. I think Makuta would have possessed as something and/or influenced him to go to Voya-Nui (though as just a matoran, maybe he still would have turned into a Toa). But that only works if Makuta knew of Matoro's primary destiny. If this was just a half-answer and half-joke, then that explains.

The point you make about destiny is a very good point, it actually plays a far greater role here. Matoro was destined to revive the Great Spirit and the Toa Inika were destined to assist him, so I'm not so sure we can say they wouldn't have gone to Voya Nui if Jaller hadn't been there to persuade them. Destiny would have made it so that one way or another they made their way to the Kanohi Ignika. Of course the question that remains is whether they would've rescued the Nuva along the way in this alternate scenario the way they rescued them in the actual timeline, but what's important there is that the Makuta wanted the Nuva to survive until they could awaken the Great Spirit and he essentially was in control of what was going on on Voya Nui.And yeah I don't know how serious SPIRIT's post was intended to be, but I think essentially destiny and the Makuta would've made it so the Nuva wouldn't die before they were supposed to awaken the Great Spirit.

At the risk of getting embroiled in another destiny vs. fate discussion, destiny can change, otherwise how else would there be parallel universes?

 

What's the difference between the two? They have about the same meaning, just like fate and luck (though destiny and luck are not the same thing; my definition for fate and luck go off of my understanding of the Roman goddess Fortuna, so maybe the definition has changed a bit since two thousand years ago).

[CarumEsSarene]

 

 

 

 

Couple of things to note: Not sure it was Vezon's destiny to hold the Ignika curse-free and use it appropriately, and you seem to have forgotten that Barraki stood in the way between Mahri-Nui and Karda-Nui. I think Makuta would have possessed as something and/or influenced him to go to Voya-Nui (though as just a matoran, maybe he still would have turned into a Toa). But that only works if Makuta knew of Matoro's primary destiny. If this was just a half-answer and half-joke, then that explains.

The point you make about destiny is a very good point, it actually plays a far greater role here. Matoro was destined to revive the Great Spirit and the Toa Inika were destined to assist him, so I'm not so sure we can say they wouldn't have gone to Voya Nui if Jaller hadn't been there to persuade them. Destiny would have made it so that one way or another they made their way to the Kanohi Ignika. Of course the question that remains is whether they would've rescued the Nuva along the way in this alternate scenario the way they rescued them in the actual timeline, but what's important there is that the Makuta wanted the Nuva to survive until they could awaken the Great Spirit and he essentially was in control of what was going on on Voya Nui.And yeah I don't know how serious SPIRIT's post was intended to be, but I think essentially destiny and the Makuta would've made it so the Nuva wouldn't die before they were supposed to awaken the Great Spirit.

At the risk of getting embroiled in another destiny vs. fate discussion, destiny can change, otherwise how else would there be parallel universes?

What's the difference between the two? They have about the same meaning, just like fate and luck (though destiny and luck are not the same thing; my definition for fate and luck go off of my understanding of the Roman goddess Fortuna, so maybe the definition has changed a bit since two thousand years ago).

Destiny is what you will become

Fate is what will become of you

[SPIRIT]

 

What's the difference between the two? They have about the same meaning, just like fate and luck (though destiny and luck are not the same thing; my definition for fate and luck go off of my understanding of the Roman goddess Fortuna, so maybe the definition has changed a bit since two thousand years ago).

 

I mean in the sense of what's supposed to happen vs. what's going to happen, but invariably these discussions always devolve into arguing semantics.

[Xabla]

Life would be different.

[Owlexander]

Life would be different.

 

Putting it simply.

[Thormen]

At the risk of getting embroiled in another destiny vs. fate discussion, destiny can change, otherwise how else would there be parallel universes?

Hmmm, well what usually changes is the way they go about achieving their destiny instead of the destiny itself (such as the way the Makuta went about achieving his destiny of helping Mata Nui undo the Shattering), but you're right that this isn't a 100% foolproof system seeing as we have an alternate universe where Matoro failed to achieve his destiny: the Kingdom (or his destiny in that reality was different or whatever, but in any case he failed to revive the Great Spirit so it's proven that that wasn't inevitable). I still think the workings of the Matoran Universe would try to push Matoro towards his destiny of reviving the Great Spirit, but as you said in the worst case scenario he wouldn't manage to do it. Still I think what Iaredios said about Vezon not being destined to use the Ignika is valid (he was just a guardian), so then the question remains whether the Great Spirit would've been revived at all. However, without the arrival of the Inika I think the Makuta would've done his best to get someone destined to revive the Great Spirit to the Ignika. The only problem is he might not know who that's supposed to be.