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Toatapio Nuva

Where is the legend of Lhii from?

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So, this question has been bugging me for a long time, and I haven't been able to find an answer. Where does the well-known legend about Lhii (made up by the Turaga of Mata Nui to uphold the legacy of Lhikan without revealing his existence) originate from? Not story-wise, but rather when and where it was presented to the fandom.

 

This source says that the story was already known of and circulating in 2001, and I personally also recall knowing of it very early on in the story. It was also used in some fan fiction stories like Time Disruption by Xccj way back in 2003/2004. Biosector01 talks about the legend, but doesn't specify any sources or where it was released. I don't remember the story being told on Bionicle.com or any other form of media, so I'm quite confused as to where it came from.

Edited by Toatapio Nuva
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If I remember correctly, there was a bit on Bionicle.com about it, and maybe a brief mention of it by a Ta-Matoran in the MNOG. It wasn't in any books or comics, so that leaves us with Bionicle.com and games.


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IIRC its first mention was in the original Bionicle lexicon from the Bionicle website. I don't remember if it ever was mentioned in the context of any actual fiction, though.


Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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IIRC its first mention was in the original Bionicle lexicon from the Bionicle website. I don't remember if it ever was mentioned in the context of any actual fiction, though.

 

You mean the 2001 website (or at least-2004)? That'd be weird... it would mean the name for the character "Lhikan" actually came from some trivial detail. I assumed that it was the other way around.

Edited by TheSkeletonMan939

 

 

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The original source is Jala's bio page from the 2001 website. It's no longer readable as it was originally presented but you can still find the text by viewing the page source:

 

"Jala's athletic ability and no-nonsense manner make him the obvious choice to stand at Vakama's right hand. As captain of the guard, it's his job to protect their village of Ta-Koro and organize its warriors. The founder of Jala's clan, Lhii, was once the greatest surfer Mata Nui has known since Tahu last walked upon the land. Jala has much to live up to, but he is dedicated and works hard."

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The original source is Jala's bio page from the 2001 website. It's no longer readable as it was originally presented but you can still find the text by viewing the page source:

 

"Jala's athletic ability and no-nonsense manner make him the obvious choice to stand at Vakama's right hand. As captain of the guard, it's his job to protect their village of Ta-Koro and organize its warriors. The founder of Jala's clan, Lhii, was once the greatest surfer Mata Nui has known since Tahu last walked upon the land. Jala has much to live up to, but he is dedicated and works hard."

Cool, that at least resolves the question of how far back Lhii was introduced, but there's still a question of where the other details on BS01 came from. Specifically, they say Lhii was an all yellow villager with a pakari who died lavasurfing. Maybe those were just embellishments that were eked out of Greg over the years.

 

I love how that bio also implies the Toa were on Mata Nui in the distant past. I wonder what they could've been thinking with that.

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I can also attest that I first heard about Lhii through the "Lhii the Surfer" entry in the Lexicon, but that didn't come out until 2002. I guess the first place was Jaller's bio in 2001. I don't remember anyone mentioning Lhii in MNOG, but I haven't played that game in a while.

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The original source is Jala's bio page from the 2001 website. It's no longer readable as it was originally presented but you can still find the text by viewing the page source:

 

"Jala's athletic ability and no-nonsense manner make him the obvious choice to stand at Vakama's right hand. As captain of the guard, it's his job to protect their village of Ta-Koro and organize its warriors. The founder of Jala's clan, Lhii, was once the greatest surfer Mata Nui has known since Tahu last walked upon the land. Jala has much to live up to, but he is dedicated and works hard."

 

 

That's a very interesting find, thank you for sharing it. Like Pereki already said, it's interesting how this text indicates that the Toa Mata had been on Mata Nui before. These kinds of implications don't exist in any other story material, so I wonder what the point was. Of course, the origin of the Toa Mata wasn't actually planned yet at that point, so maybe this is just the interpretation of some guy at Lego?

 

Cool, that at least resolves the question of how far back Lhii was introduced, but there's still a question of where the other details on BS01 came from. Specifically, they say Lhii was an all yellow villager with a pakari who died lavasurfing.

 

Since the Lexicon seems to be the second time Lhii was mentioned, perhaps those tidbits were revealed there?

 

 

IIRC its first mention was in the original Bionicle lexicon from the Bionicle website. I don't remember if it ever was mentioned in the context of any actual fiction, though.

 

You mean the 2001 website (or at least-2004)? That'd be weird... it would mean the name for the character "Lhikan" actually came from some trivial detail. I assumed that it was the other way around.

 

Well, the character of Lhikan was planned from the beginning, so their names were probably created at the same time as well.

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Since the Lexicon seems to be the second time Lhii was mentioned, perhaps those tidbits were revealed there?

That'd make sense, but it doesn't look like it, unless it was added at a point later than the one capture wayback has of that page. A friend suggested to me that it might originate from the encyclopedia - and it turns out that the part about Lhii's death, at least, is in there. Still nothing about a pakari.

 

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Well, there goes that lead. Lhii's death story was known of before the encyclopedia came out though, that's for certain. I remember knowing about it way before that. Maybe there was a Bionicle.com update that added that information to Jaller's bio or something?

Edited by Toatapio Nuva

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Worth noting, since it had not yet been directly confirmed in this thread: Jala does mention Lhii in Mata Nui Online Game... but only in the German translation.  He gives this response to the question "Wer bist du? (Who are you?)".  While he only says "I am Jala, Captain of the Guard" in the English version (before changing the subject to talk about the Rahi attacks and the Tren Krom redoubt), here he goes on to mention that he is of the tribe of the surfer Lhii and that he stands beside Vakama during "the great Haka dance" (which might be the German translation of the Great Takara EDIT: read Pereki's post below for more info):

 

"Ich bin Jala, Kommandant der Wache und vom Stamm der Lhii Surfer. Beim großen Haka-Tanz stehe ich Vakama zur Seite. Meine Aufgabe ist es, die Stadt gegen die Rahi zu schützen. Ich merkte schon lange, dass sie immer stärker wurden, aber keiner in der Stadt schenkte mir Glauben - bis die Bestien die Kluft von Tren Krom stürmten."

 

It's nothing new, but we have another Lhii-namedropping source dating back to 2001.  Still no information on his physical appearance or pre-Encyclopedia mention of his death, which I'm guessing were details retroactively made canon by Greg Farshtey.

Edited by PeabodySam
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Worth noting, since it had not yet been directly confirmed in this thread: Jala does mention Lhii in Mata Nui Online Game... but only in the German translation.  He gives this response to the question "Wer bist du? (Who are you?)".  While he only says "I am Jala, Captain of the Guard" in the English version (before changing the subject to talk about the Rahi attacks and the Tren Krom redoubt), here he goes on to mention that he is of the tribe of the surfer Lhii and that he stands beside Vakama during "the great Haka dance" (which might be the German translation of the Great Takara):

 

"Ich bin Jala, Kommandant der Wache und vom Stamm der Lhii Surfer. Beim großen Haka-Tanz stehe ich Vakama zur Seite. Meine Aufgabe ist es, die Stadt gegen die Rahi zu schützen. Ich merkte schon lange, dass sie immer stärker wurden, aber keiner in der Stadt schenkte mir Glauben - bis die Bestien die Kluft von Tren Krom stürmten."

Oooh, this is really interesting - I can't believe I never caught it before. I don't know if you already knew this too, but in that same file (Text_IV.2A_2_deu.txt), Jala mentions Papu and Rangi. He even says they named Ta-Koro as the "place of fire."

 

The corresponding English text file is, as you might expect, Text_IV.2A_2_eng.txt. The 'IV.2A' identifies the location the text file is assigned to (aka the gatehouse room where you talk to Jala), but the following digit, a '2' for these files, is the version of the dialogue. So Text_IV.2A_3_eng.txt, as an example, is Jala's dialogue for the beginning of the Ko-Koro chapter, the first time his dialogue changes after you encounter him with the 2 dialogue.

 

The important thing here is that there is no Text_IV.2A_1_eng.txt. None of the other dialogue documents start at the number 2 like this one does. My suspicion is that the original versions were removed, but somehow the German revision was not actually corrected to remove the sensitive terms - in much the same way someone seems to have forgotten to edit Papu and Rangi out of one of Nokama's dialogue files. 

 

This theory is actually supported by the occurrence of the word "Haka" - that isn't a translation of the Takara, its the original name for the Takara. You can also find it in the early scripts Templar posted on their Tumblr. It got changed because, wouldn't you know it, the Haka is actually a Maori war dance. Like Papu and Rangi, who are of course also lifted wholesale from Maori culture, it had to be struck from the record asap.

 

Now, why would they remove the bit about Lhii, then? Maybe just to cut down on the amount of jargon they were dumping on players, or something like that. Considering it stuck around in the lexicon, I'm assuming it wasn't a Maori term.

 

EDIT: disregard the business with the missing file, turns out its actually there as just Text_IV.2A_eng.txt, lol. I still think there's pretty strong evidence here that the English files were altered, like the Nokama ones.

Edited by Pereki
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Wow. I've literally spent most of my time as a Bionicle fan learning about and reliving the 01-03 story, yet I have never heard of Lhii until now. 


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Hoff who

 

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Its really amazing how deep the original lore and characters were back in the day. It was this level of deepness for each character that I wish was in G2 Bionicle. They can never replicate the extreme detail 2001 had. It was truly a golden age for technic.

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Its really amazing how deep the original lore and characters were back in the day. It was this level of deepness for each character that I wish was in G2 Bionicle. They can never replicate the extreme detail 2001 had. It was truly a golden age for technic.

For Bionicle? Maybe. For Technic? I'd hesitate to say that, since back then mainline Technic sets were far, far less impressive than modern sets like the Bucket Wheel Excavator or Porsche 911 GT3 RS. It's important to remember that despite more Technic-based sets like the Rahi, Bionicle was still a far cry from anything else in the Technic theme, hence why it lost the Technic label after only a few years.


Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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Its really amazing how deep the original lore and characters were back in the day. It was this level of deepness for each character that I wish was in G2 Bionicle. They can never replicate the extreme detail 2001 had. It was truly a golden age for technic.

For Bionicle? Maybe. For Technic? I'd hesitate to say that, since back then mainline Technic sets were far, far less impressive than modern sets like the Bucket Wheel Excavator or Porsche 911 GT3 RS. It's important to remember that despite more Technic-based sets like the Rahi, Bionicle was still a far cry from anything else in the Technic theme, hence why it lost the Technic label after only a few years.

 

He didn't mean the details of the physical sets, he meant the details of the storyline.

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Knock Knock

 

Who's there

 

Hoff

 

Hoff who

 

Yes

 

 

 

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Its really amazing how deep the original lore and characters were back in the day. It was this level of deepness for each character that I wish was in G2 Bionicle. They can never replicate the extreme detail 2001 had. It was truly a golden age for technic.

For Bionicle? Maybe. For Technic? I'd hesitate to say that, since back then mainline Technic sets were far, far less impressive than modern sets like the Bucket Wheel Excavator or Porsche 911 GT3 RS. It's important to remember that despite more Technic-based sets like the Rahi, Bionicle was still a far cry from anything else in the Technic theme, hence why it lost the Technic label after only a few years.

 

He didn't mean the details of the physical sets, he meant the details of the storyline.

 

Odd to specify Technic instead of Bionicle, then, because storyline isn't even a factor for the vast majority of Technic. What there was, apart from G1 Bionicle, were themes like Roboriders, Slizer/Throwbots, and Cyber-Slam, all of which have a more bare-bones story structure than not just Bionicle G2 but even themes like Mixels.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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Now, why would they remove the bit about Lhii, then? Maybe just to cut down on the amount of jargon they were dumping on players, or something like that. Considering it stuck around in the lexicon, I'm assuming it wasn't a Maori term.

I always assumed the Lhii stuff got removed because the story team wanted to make the villagers a bit more robotic, thus it didn't make sense to have Jaller be part of a clan as I guess that would insinuate biological reproduction.

 

For the life of me I cannot determine where the description of him being all yellow with a Pakari comes from originally.

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Now, why would they remove the bit about Lhii, then? Maybe just to cut down on the amount of jargon they were dumping on players, or something like that. Considering it stuck around in the lexicon, I'm assuming it wasn't a Maori term.

I always assumed the Lhii stuff got removed because the story team wanted to make the villagers a bit more robotic, thus it didn't make sense to have Jaller be part of a clan as I guess that would insinuate biological reproduction.

 

For the life of me I cannot determine where the description of him being all yellow with a Pakari comes from originally.

 

 

Additionally, it's possible that they removed it because it may have been confusing for players who "jumped" to that chapter in the MNOG via the main screen, and thus hadn't met Tahu yet. After all, they had lots of sets to sell, and Lhii (unfortunately) wasn't one of them.

 

So, after doing a little research on the short excerpt that discusses Lhii from BS01, it looks as though the origins of the yellow armor and the Pakari remain unclear. Both facts are mentioned on the earliest revision of the page, and the Internet Archive doesn't have it archived. Very odd.

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I remember it being in one of the first few bionicle books.

It may have been, though the chapter books weren't actually published until 2003, meaning that the legend's appearance in other media predates those books one way or another.


Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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I remember it being in one of the first few bionicle books.

It may have been, though the chapter books weren't actually published until 2003, meaning that the legend's appearance in other media predates those books one way or another.

 

Actually, Lhii wasn't mentioned in any of the novels. I think the first book with a mention of him was the Encyclopedia in 2006.

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If it helps at all, might he have been mentioned in the 2003 Official Guide to Bionicle? I never owned it myself, so I can't say for certain, but I remember seeing it on sale back then; and given what I remember of it, it seems plausible that it might have contained something on him.


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I love how that bio also implies the Toa were on Mata Nui in the distant past. I wonder what they could've been thinking with that.

 

I remember them alluding to that a few times on the old website, and Greg having to deconfirm it a few years later. They also made some references to the Toa being different ages—Lewa youngest, I think Onua or Tahu the oldest. (Makes sense given the running theme of Onua rescuing Lewa in the early story.) 

 

I always missed the idea that the Toa had been on the island before, in some mythic prehistory. Felt very magical. I guess 2008 touched on some similar ideas when they showed the Toa's preexistence in Karda Nui. 

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If it helps at all, might he have been mentioned in the 2003 Official Guide to Bionicle? I never owned it myself, so I can't say for certain, but I remember seeing it on sale back then; and given what I remember of it, it seems plausible that it might have contained something on him.

 

No. There's not all that much in that book.

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I remember them alluding to that a few times on the old website, and Greg having to deconfirm it a few years later. They also made some references to the Toa being different ages—Lewa youngest, I think Onua or Tahu the oldest. (Makes sense given the running theme of Onua rescuing Lewa in the early story.) 

 

I always missed the idea that the Toa had been on the island before, in some mythic prehistory. Felt very magical. I guess 2008 touched on some similar ideas when they showed the Toa's preexistence in Karda Nui. 

 

Oh yeah, I remember those bios! They were also in the story booklet that came with the quest for the masks theme decks, alongside some other early material that mentioned stuff like nuju and nokama ice skating together on lake naho in the winter, and the toa having totems for their masks instead of the suva shrines. It's weird that all that info was considered official enough to publish at one point, only to be quietly set aside and retconned not too much later.

 

Things like that and Greg mentioning recently that the original story bible had the toa do some kind of dance whenever they found a mask really make me wish we knew more about the earlier stages of Bionicle's development.

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I remember them alluding to that a few times on the old website, and Greg having to deconfirm it a few years later. They also made some references to the Toa being different ages—Lewa youngest, I think Onua or Tahu the oldest. (Makes sense given the running theme of Onua rescuing Lewa in the early story.) 

 

I always missed the idea that the Toa had been on the island before, in some mythic prehistory. Felt very magical. I guess 2008 touched on some similar ideas when they showed the Toa's preexistence in Karda Nui. 

 

Oh yeah, I remember those bios! They were also in the story booklet that came with the quest for the masks theme decks, alongside some other early material that mentioned stuff like nuju and nokama ice skating together on lake naho in the winter, and the toa having totems for their masks instead of the suva shrines. It's weird that all that info was considered official enough to publish at one point, only to be quietly set aside and retconned not too much later.

 

Things like that and Greg mentioning recently that the original story bible had the toa do some kind of dance whenever they found a mask really make me wish we knew more about the earlier stages of Bionicle's development.

 

 

I have the QftM card booklets, but I've never heard about the skating and totem stuff. Where did that come from?

 

Reminds me of the world design for BIONICLE: The Game.

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I have the QftM card booklets, but I've never heard about the skating and totem stuff. Where did that come from?

 

Reminds me of the world design for BIONICLE: The Game.

 

I've got it in a couple different copies of "The Legend of Mata Nui" booklet. The totem part is mentioned offhand in the description of the Kanohi, and the ice skating was either in Nokama or Nuju's bio. I'd offer some pictures, but I'm afraid I won't have access to my lego stuff again until december.

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I have the QftM card booklets, but I've never heard about the skating and totem stuff. Where did that come from?

 

Reminds me of the world design for BIONICLE: The Game.

 

I've got it in a couple different copies of "The Legend of Mata Nui" booklet. The totem part is mentioned offhand in the description of the Kanohi, and the ice skating was either in Nokama or Nuju's bio. I'd offer some pictures, but I'm afraid I won't have access to my lego stuff again until december.

 

What is "The Legend of Mata Nui" booklet?

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What is "The Legend of Mata Nui" booklet?

 

The story booklet that comes with the theme decks. It's the one with the image of the island of Mata Nui on it, to the far left in this pic:

 

Qftm.png

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...Not story-wise, but rather when and where it was presented to the fandom.

 

Though it shouldn't be too big of a surprise, this is where it starts to get really tough.

 

Coming off of the question of the Yellow Pakari and armor, it's possible that it was in Quest for the Toa, especially as that game was pretty Matoran-focused. Additionally, are we sure that it isn't from some one-off merchandise like the board game or the 2001 Happy Meal boxes?

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This sounds super interesting. I'd love to see some scans if you can remember.

Sure thing! I'll do my best to remember, but don't be afraid to remind me if december rolls around and I don't post anything. 

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