Jump to content

  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Welcome to BZPower!

Hi there, while we hope you enjoy browsing through the site, there's a lot more you can do if you register. Some perks of joining include:
  • Create your own topics, participate in existing discussions, and vote in polls
  • Show off your creations, stories, art, music, and movies
  • Enter contests to win free LEGO sets and other prizes
  • Participate in raffles to win LEGO prizes
  • Organize with other members to attend or send your MOCs to LEGO fan events all over the world
  • Much, much more!
Enjoy your visit!

Photo

Biological Chronicle: The Complete Bionicle Collection

Featured

  • Please log in to reply
332 replies to this topic

#81 Offline bohrokmaster

bohrokmaster
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 13-December 02
  • 137 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 26 2017 - 05:27 PM

Good Job! And thank you so much! :D  Now the fans old and new could enjoy the entire mythology!

 

"And that is the way of the Bionicle!"  :infected:


Edited by bohrokmaster, Oct 26 2017 - 05:29 PM.

  • 2
 

 


#82 Offline Toa Tahva

Toa Tahva
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 25-October 17
  • 8 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 26 2017 - 10:03 PM

Is there meant to be a "Many years ago" at the beginning of the Book Six epilogue? As it is it read confusingly because the last time we saw Norik he was still a Rahagah, and I believe he still is one at this point in time. 


  • 1

#83 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Oct 26 2017 - 10:13 PM

Ah that makes sense. Any theories on what is the in-universe inspiration for this? Did a great being write it?

Not sure there really is an explanation, considering it was only used promotionally. I didn't really include it with the idea that it exists in-universe.

Is there meant to be a "Many years ago" at the beginning of the Book Six epilogue? As it is it read confusingly because the last time we saw Norik he was still a Rahagah, and I believe he still is one at this point in time.

Good call, there should be. I'll add that in the morning.

  • 0

#84 Offline Tyrion Archer

Tyrion Archer
  • Members
  • Turaga

  • 07-August 14
  • 69 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 26 2017 - 10:18 PM

As a longtime lurker on this forum, I felt the need to finally join for real, because I simply have to commend you on one of the greatest labors of love by a member of our fandom that I have ever seen. Truly this is something that every Bionicle fan has dreamed of and now you have made it a reality. Remarkable. I have nothing but praise to heap upon you.

 

 

On the book naming debate:

 

I also think that there are better names that could be had then the word word titles. I would also potentially be in favor of dividing the complete work into "Parts" if that make sense. Here's what I propose (some of these ideas have also been suggested by others)

 

The Biological Chronicle (BIONICLE):

 

PART I: UNITY or Legend of the Toa

 

Book 1: Quest for the Masks

Book 2: The Bohrok Swarms/What Lurks Below (either of these work)

Book 3: The Seventh Toa/Mask of Light (again I love both these titles)

 

PART II: DUTY or The Great Rescue

Book 4: City of Legends

Book 5: Web of Shadows

 

PART III: DESTINY or The Three that Must Be One

Book 6: Island of Doom

Book 7: The Pit

Book 8: Destiny War

Book 9: Journey's End

 

EPILOGUE:

Book 10: Epilogue

 

I also think Ignition is not a bad title for either 7 or 8. I guess I just like a lot of the cool "Bionicle" titles for things instead of one word titles that could be for any generic Sci-Fi series. "City of Legends" and "Island of Doom" and certain other things instantly bring to mind Bionicle for me and I guess I just really like those as titles. I also think dividing the books up into parts could be neat just structurally and UNITY, DUTY, and DESTINY sortof fit perfectly. I know I just said I don't like one word titles but for the three parts those words are perfect.

I like those title choices. The different phases of the story really do fit perfectly into those three parts. In the debate over Book 7's title, I too think "The Pit" is perfect for that volume in the scenario of multiple-word titles. It's just short enough and descriptive enough, and it sounds pretty menacing.


  • 0

Previous usernames:

Joffrey

IAmGroot


#85 Offline Planetperson

Planetperson
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Emerging Ice Warrior

  • 19-December 04
  • 1,822 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 27 2017 - 07:27 AM

 

Having never seen that Piraka poem before, it is very good forshadowing. What exactly does the third stanza refer to ("What darkness divides/A cut will unite")? The rest of them seem clear to me.

I actually hadn't seen it either until someone mentioned it here! I assume that stanza refers to Voya Nui being "divided" from the MU, and how "cutting" the Cord will allow it to return.

 

 

Right, and the "darkness" presumably refers to the Pit, aka black water.

 

The poem looks great.

 

I still like the longer names better, but I was thinking about the title "Venom" for Book 5, and "Mutation" might work better. Especially since that's a theme in BA6. I think "Sacrifice" is bit too spoilery for Book 7.


  • 0

#86 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Oct 27 2017 - 08:14 AM

Okay, first: the epilogue of Book 6 now opens with "Thousands of years ago…", across all versions. In addition, I've updated all of the Young Reader book page numbers in Book 9, but not in the Complete collection yet. EDIT: All Young Reader book page numbers are now correct, across all Books and versions. EDIT: They're wrong again, and will probably remain so until all feedback has been dealt with.

 

 

 

As a longtime lurker on this forum, I felt the need to finally join for real, because I simply have to commend you on one of the greatest labors of love by a member of our fandom that I have ever seen. Truly this is something that every Bionicle fan has dreamed of and now you have made it a reality. Remarkable. I have nothing but praise to heap upon you.

 

 

On the book naming debate:

 

I also think that there are better names that could be had then the word word titles. I would also potentially be in favor of dividing the complete work into "Parts" if that make sense. Here's what I propose (some of these ideas have also been suggested by others)

 

The Biological Chronicle (BIONICLE):

 

PART I: UNITY or Legend of the Toa

 

Book 1: Quest for the Masks

Book 2: The Bohrok Swarms/What Lurks Below (either of these work)

Book 3: The Seventh Toa/Mask of Light (again I love both these titles)

 

PART II: DUTY or The Great Rescue

Book 4: City of Legends

Book 5: Web of Shadows

 

PART III: DESTINY or The Three that Must Be One

Book 6: Island of Doom

Book 7: The Pit

Book 8: Destiny War

Book 9: Journey's End

 

EPILOGUE:

Book 10: Epilogue

 

I also think Ignition is not a bad title for either 7 or 8. I guess I just like a lot of the cool "Bionicle" titles for things instead of one word titles that could be for any generic Sci-Fi series. "City of Legends" and "Island of Doom" and certain other things instantly bring to mind Bionicle for me and I guess I just really like those as titles. I also think dividing the books up into parts could be neat just structurally and UNITY, DUTY, and DESTINY sortof fit perfectly. I know I just said I don't like one word titles but for the three parts those words are perfect.

I like those title choices. The different phases of the story really do fit perfectly into those three parts. In the debate over Book 7's title, I too think "The Pit" is perfect for that volume in the scenario of multiple-word titles. It's just short enough and descriptive enough, and it sounds pretty menacing.

 

 

 

 

 

Having never seen that Piraka poem before, it is very good forshadowing. What exactly does the third stanza refer to ("What darkness divides/A cut will unite")? The rest of them seem clear to me.

I actually hadn't seen it either until someone mentioned it here! I assume that stanza refers to Voya Nui being "divided" from the MU, and how "cutting" the Cord will allow it to return.

 

 

Right, and the "darkness" presumably refers to the Pit, aka black water.

 

The poem looks great.

 

I still like the longer names better, but I was thinking about the title "Venom" for Book 5, and "Mutation" might work better. Especially since that's a theme in BA6. I think "Sacrifice" is bit too spoilery for Book 7.

 

 

"Mutation" makes sense, and I somewhat agree on "Sacrifice;" I'll consider changing those.

 

But, as seen in the above quote, more people keep saying that they want the longer titles, so I'm thinking about possibly doing that. It's hard for me to gauge the actual interest in short vs. long titles, though, since I don't know how many people aren't being vocal about their opinion (especially since, on average, the posts asking to keep the short names have more upvotes than those asking for the longer names).

 

As long as I've been on here, I still don't quite know what the rules are for polls: would it be possible for me to make a poll asking for people's opinions on the titles?


Edited by TuragaNuva, Nov 09 2017 - 11:11 AM.

  • 0

#87 Offline Toatapio Nuva

Toatapio Nuva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Anger Pacified

  • 10-December 04
  • 6,536 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 28 2017 - 09:11 AM

I just finished going through Book 3. There are a lot of things to comment on in that book, but this is mainly because the MNOG II walkthrough is a part of it, and... well, it's practically filled with typos and other mistakes. They're all part of the original text itself.

 

The first issue I took note of though, is that the main parts of the MNOG II walkthrough really should come before Tales of the Masks in terms of chronology. The ending of Tales of the Masks leads directly into Mask of Light, and the meeting of the Turaga portrayed in that book happens right before the Kolhii championship.

 

Anyways, I've divided my comments so that MNOG II has its own section in spoiler tags, cause there's a lot to say.

 

MNOG II walkthrough (generally more open to criticism and stylistic pointers I think, since it's fan-written):

Spoiler

 

Books/comics

Page 264: Whenua turned and looked up at the Toa of Earth, Onua was silent... - comma should be a full stop.

Page 338: "But Tahu somersaulted away, away, then knocked..." - remove extra "away,".

Page 341: "a sudden gust of vine" - it's this way in the original text, but should it be "wind" instead of "vine"? I dunno, just thought I'd bring it up in any case.

Placement of the Rahkshi comic: There's a continuity problem here, cause the comic with Lerahk, Guurahk and Panrahk is placed after they are trapped in ice by Kopaka (trapped in the previous chapter, but not freed until much later in the chapter where Takua escaped Onu-Koro - Makuta even mentions how they are bound in ice on page 355). I guess there could be multiple ways to fix this: one way would be to simply include the comic parts featuring Lerahk, Guurahk and Panrahk before the Ko-Koro scene in Mask of Light, in which case the part where Makuta releases the other three Rahkshi would have to come somewhere in between. Another possibility is moving the paragraph which talks about the Rahkshi freeing themselves from the ice (which is currently on page 373) before any of the comics.

Page 372: "...breathed out with relief as he and Onua emerged..." - "Onua" should actually be "Pohatu", looking at the context. This is because "he" already refers to Onua. It is like this in the original text, but since it's an error, it might be good to fix it in this case.

Page 377: "cutting of their escape" - "of" should be "off".

Page 380: Between the paragraph ending in "bowed" and "The next morning", there appears to be a double gap instead of just one.

Page 389: This page of the comic has the speech bubble "It looks like one of your cyclones at work" twice, except that the other one has a typo in it. :P


Edited by Toatapio Nuva, Oct 28 2017 - 10:19 AM.

  • 0

#88 Offline Surel-Nuva

Surel-Nuva
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 20-October 16
  • 8 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 28 2017 - 12:51 PM

This is fantasatic,Great Job!

 

Couldn't you include the additional information (like the names of the Matoran who talked with the Toa Metru) from the Toa Metru Mini Promo CDs to the BA1: MoMN' content? That would be nice to see the names of the Matoran there. As long as I'm right the promo CDs' materials are canon (so it was Kiwi sho told Ahkmou that the Dark Hunters were looking for him at the Chute Station... okay,the only non-canon part from Nokama's CD is where she rescuses Vhisola from her "trap," but otherwise the CDs' contents don't contradict with the BA1) 


  • 0

#89 Offline Toa of Italy

Toa of Italy
  • Members
  • Stalwart Defender

  • 15-May 07
  • 451 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 28 2017 - 08:29 PM

First of all, I must compliment you on your work: it mustn't have been easy to piece all of this together. The importance of this collection cannot be overstated: thanks to you, the entire storyline is now online and can be freely consulted, ensuring that it will never be lost and allowing those of us who back in the day did not buy all the books (in my case I was missing the young reader books) and comics to finally read it all, and in the right order too.

 

Or almost right. There are some choices you made regarding the chronology which I don't fully agree with. I did not check whether your timeline coincides with the one on BS01, so the considerations I'll make are motivated entirely by the content of the sources themselves. Of course, the choice whether to take them into account is yours: given that there was never an official reading order, I'm well aware that my point of view is not unassailable.

 

Infection (2001):

  • Ok, so the first thing is that the Quest for the Toa game is entirely missing. Of course, this isn't your fault, since a walkthrough was never written, but I think that game is an important portion of the storyline, so you might want to either write one or find someone who can write it. I have a version of the game saved on my PC, but right now I'm too busy to get around to doing this. Still, if someone wants to try, I can pass the game on to them.
  • I'd put the current chapter 14, where Tahu finds his Akaku just after the current Chapter 9, since it is explicitly stated to immediately follow the first meeting of the Toa. It also gives Jala more time to move between the village, where he meets Takua, and the spot where Tahu runs into him.
  • Starting from chapter 16, I think the order should be (using the current chapter numbers) 16-18-20 and 24 up to the scene of Lewa and Kopaka from the style guide. Then 17 and 21, so that it is realistically possible for Lewa to have finished gathering his masks at the end of 21, like shown in the game (though you might still omit Lewa's Golden Kanohi appearing on that occasion). Following this we can have 19, since it is only now that it is possible for six Matoran from different koro to travel across Mata Nui and meet together. After that Jaller might return to Ta-Koro and meet with Takua in 22, then 23. 25 would begin with the scene of Tahu acquiring his Kaukau.

Swarm (2002-2003):

  • Since the flooding of Onu-Koro and invention of the Boxor seems to occur immediately after Onua reaches his village, I would put it before Chapter 9, which sees Onua otherwise engaged. Consequently, you could either choose to change the order of the Wall of History and put the Boxor bit first, or else place the first 4 wall of history entries all together before Chapter 8 or 9.
  • The timeline after the theft of the Nuva Symbols is somewhat jumbled, with the animations and the book describing in different ways how the Toa go on to meet again (as well as confusing which Bohrok-Kal stole which symbol). Still, I'd place the two corresponding wall of history entries (Theft of Fire and Out of their Elements) before Chapter 23.

Masks (2003):

  • I'm guessing you interpreted the meeting of Tales of the Masks as the one where the Turaga decide to hold a Kolhii tournament. I think you're mistaken, it is clearly explained that it is the one that takes place just before the final (though in MoL only Vakama, Onewa and Nokama appear there, in MNOG2 the Turaga say they will all attend the final, so there is no contradiction). So you should place the MNOG2 Walkthrough before Tales of the Masks (except for the last chapter of the former).
  • I'm not sure whether you should bother with this, but the game that was once on the MoL movie website, The Legend Continues, is more or less canon (it is mentioned in BIONICLE World, for instance). If you want, I have trascribed the dialogues without adding anything of my own, though I've placed them into a realistic order so as to bypass the need to "choose your adventure" (I posted them on BZP too some time back, but they seem to have disappeared). Fitting them into the rest of the story isn't easy, but it can be done.

Legends (2004):

  • At the end of Chapter 5 you might want to put in the page from Comic 16 where Vakama is attacked by the Morbuzakh just after saving Nuhrii.
  • I don't quite understand why you transported the scene in which the Toa Metru jump into the chute after the comics. That scene clearly takes place in the Coliseum. After the battle against the Tahtorak, the Toa simply take another chute to Ko-Metru and that's where we find them in the next chapter of Legends of Metru Nui.

Venom (2005):

  • The timeline of Challenge of the Hordika and that of the comics seems a bit mixed up. From the scene of Nuju and Kualus's descent into the Archives up to the end of the last 2005 comic the events of the comics clearly take place one after the other without any interruption and we know from Hanging by a thread that this occurs after Challenge of the Hordika. Moreover, in Vengeance of the Visorak the Toa Hordika have already learnt to charge their Rhotuka, unlike in Challenge of the Hordika (at least as far as Nokama is concerned). I think you should just place all the 2005 comics (except for the first one, Monsters in the Dark, and the scene of Matau and Iruini in Vengeance of the Visorak) between the chapters taken from Challenge of the Hordika and those taken from Web of Shadows (I'd suggest after the Mask of Light animations, since Roodaka's last line clearly alludes to her plan to bring Vakama to her side and so it makes sense for this to happen immediately afterwards).
  • Why did you insert Birth of a Dark Hunter before Web of Shadows? I don't think it makes a lot of sense there. I'd advise either to transport it to 2006 and splice it between the chapters from Legacy of Evil or else, if you want to keep it in 2005, put it as a prologue to the Time Trap chapters, since that book is where Nidhiki's past as a Toa is first mentioned.

Doomed (2006):

  • I would suggest transporting the scene of Reidak and Thok from the first comic to just after the ones taken from the second comic. This way, they appear to be still together after Axonn's attack and it links directly to Reidak's subsequent comment about throwing Thok off a cliff.
  • During the stronghold battle, you could insert the comic pages of Hahli facing Thok.
  • Perhaps, to give continuity between Legacy of Evil and Inferno, you could place Inferno's prologue, with the Great Beings, at the beginning of Book Six, so as to serve as prologue for the whole thing.
  • Since Varian appears in the main storyline only in Legacy of Evil, I think it would be more appropriate to place her story around there somewhere, rather than at the end of Book Six, where it is a bit decontextualized.

Sacrifice (2007):

  • Personally, I believe the scene of the defeat of the Barraki should act as prologue for Book 7. The Many Deaths of Toa Tuyet could be used simply as prologue for Into the Darkness and thus transported further down.
  • Between Chapters 3 and 4 you might want to place the final scenes of Comic 6 (Web Comic) and the first ones of Comic 7, detailing the gathering and encounter of the Barraki (later, for coherence, you should omit the line that says that Takadox hasn't risen to his feet in ages).

Rising (2008):

  • OK, this is going to be a little complicated. First of all, I believe you should remove Federation of Fear from where it is now, so that after the prologue of Shadows in the Sky we directly get The Mutran Chronicles and then the blinding of the Makuta. After that, the prologue of Swamp of Secrets, featuring Takanuva, should be removed as well.
  • We thus have the scene of the arrival of the Toa Nuva, which you should keep up to the end of Comic 12.5. Following this there is a period, as specified by Shadows in the Sky, where the three Phantoka Toa Nuva fight an unspecified number of battles against the Makuta. In this space we can easily fit the attack on Takanuva, the arrival of the Mistika Toa Nuva in the swamp and, overall, the three first chapters and interludes of Swamp of Secrets (I'd suggest preserving the sequence of chapters and interludes of BL10, since they refer to each other). The reason for this placement is that in Chapter 3 of BL10 we see Chirox plummet down from above, struck by one of the Phantoka Toa Nuva. However, no such episode occurs in BL9, meaning that it probably happened in the period of time between the third and fourth chapter of the latter book.
  • Now we can return to the Phantoka and thus have all the remaining chapters of Shadows in the Sky, which occur in relatively quick succession. Meanwhile, we imagine that in the swamp some time occurs before the Mistika Makuta and Toa meet again. After the end of Shadows in the Sky, we should see the remaining chapters and interludes of Swamp of Secrets (this is coherent with the fact that in Chapter 4 of BL10 the Mistika Makuta receive a telepathic communication telling them of the battle at the end of BL9) and then the epilogue of BL10 and Takanuva's departure.
  • Now it's time to insert the serials. Regarding Takanuva, the sequence should be, I think, The Kingdom, Journey of Takanuva, Dark Mirror (yes, I know that GregF once said that Journey of Takanuva comes before The Kingdom, but this way the intro to the latter story makes more sense and in addition we can explain the Power Lance in the former book without having to call in artistic licence).
  • FoF should also go here, I think. Why here and not at the beginning? Simply because there isn't enough time for it to happen before. Three days pass between the revival of the Great Spirit and the arrival of the Toa Nuva in Karda Nui: that same time occurs just between chapters 3 and 4 of FoF. Furthermore, we know that the shadow leech which attacks Takanuva is dropped by Icarax. Consequently, if Brutaka were to go to Metru Nui after FoF, it means that FoF would have to conclude before Vican's meeting with Icarax in Shadows in the Sky, five days or so after the Great Spirit's revival. There isn't time for that. On the contrary, it is never said how much time passes between BL10 and BL11 (I think a lot, since the Makuta needed to hold the Toa back long enough for Teridax to assume control over the Great Spirit Robot, which can't have been an easy task). We can thus fit FoF in there; it is also appropriate for FoF and Dark Mirror to happen at the same time, since they were released at the same time.
  • FoF leads us straight into Destiny War. The serial chapter order should be this, I believe: DW1 DW2 DiD1 DiD2 DW3 DiD3 BiA4 (you might put the first three chapters of Brothers in Arms here too to serve as prologues; scattering them in the text is less effective, in my opinion) DW4 DiD4 BiA5 DiD5 DW5 DW6 BiA6 DiD6. I think BL11 (spliced with Takanuva's Blog where needed) should start around here. It's a bit late, but there is a pause of sorts in the rhythm of the serials at this point (with the exception of the Toa Hagah storyline, where the pause is in the middle of DiD7), so it's as good a place as any. BiA7 (along with 8 and 9, at this point) should happen before the Toa Nuva enter the Codrex (since there is no mention of the vehicles, plus Icarax is too busy after that to summon Vultraz). During the battles that follow said entrance, we should see DW7 DW8 DiD7 DiD8 DiD9 (to be honest, I didn't fully check your own order, though DiD9 can't go after the BL11 epilogue, since the Great Spirit has not yet been awakened there). Then the Toa escape the Codrex, we have DW9 and then the epilogue where Teridax announces his takeover of the universe.

Destiny (2009-2010):

  • I don't quite understand why you didn't use Fall and Rise of the Skrall and The Exile's Tale as prologues. I think they're perfectly suited for that. I also don't get why you use Empire of the Skrall in flashbacks.
  • I think that the first three chapters of Empire of the Skrall should go after Comic 1. They don't just tell the story of the conflict between Malum and the Vorox; apart from informing us of the Baterra, they see Tuma acquire a plan of the Bone Hunters for a raid on Vulcanus. This plan Tuma leaks to the Hero Agori, who will later send it to Vulcanus.
  • The story of the Hero Agori takes place between Comic 1 and The Crossing (we know this because the Hero Agori recruits Glatorian to defend Vulcanus from a Bone Hunter attack and in the Crossing Fero remembers such an attack failing). If you want, I wrote a walkthrough of that game and can send it to you (I've tried to report the dialogue without changing anything, except a few explanatory sentences).
  • Before the Fall of Atero, I think we should have EotS4 and EotS5. They explain the events behind the decision of the Skrall to attack.
  • The rest of the Empire of the Skrall chapters should go between the conclusion of RotGB and Raid on Vulcanus. If you don't want to insert them there to avoid spoiling the traitor's identity, I suppose you could place them as flashbacks just after the revelation in The Legend Reborn.
  • All our sins remembered is Raanu's flashback and occurs between Raid on Vulcanus and The Legend Reborn, since it refers to the Ackar-Strakk match that we see in the latter book. Thus I think that's where it should go. In its current place you could put Decadence.
  • Before the Skrall attack on Tajun you could put the scene of Kirbraz, Scodonius and Crotesius training outside Tajun, featured in Comic 4.
  • The placement of Reign of Shadows episodes is mostly arbitrary. However, I think you should place all the Takanuva's Blog entries before RoS, since in the former the Toa are still trying to figure out the situation following Teridax's takeover and haven't yet linked with the Dark Hunters, while they have in RoS1. I also think you should get to RoS8 before Comic 5 (Valley of Fear), so as to attach to the end of that Comic the scene of Teridax's takeoff (which might have been the reason why he didn't intervene immediately to stop the intruders in the Core Processor) Then we could see the first 3 chapters of Journey's End, RoS9, Chapter 4 of Journey's End, RoS10 (which takes place after Nektann's departure from Zakaz) and RoS11, then the rest of Journey's End and finally RoS12 (though in truth you might move the scene of the Shadow Takanuva in RoS9 to before RoS12, since that battle was way shorter than Journey's End.

Done. I'm not going to comment on the last book, since it contains the unfinished serials (which, to be frank, I'd seriously prefer to forget). I'm sorry if I've been too insistent and contested some of your choices (the use of EotS as flashbacks, for instance, is clearly deliberate on your part, but I just can't understand it). I also apologize if some of the things I said here have already been said before by someone else (I haven't had the time to check the whole topic). I just thought that this was the best way for me to contribute: hope I've been able to help.

 


  • 1

22729187_1575694159161550_64900224278336

 

My collection of epics: The Sanctum of Writing

 


#90 Offline Alligaytorrr

Alligaytorrr
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 24-October 17
  • 11 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 29 2017 - 12:26 AM

I just finished going through Book 3. There are a lot of things to comment on in that book, but this is mainly because the MNOG II walkthrough is a part of it, and... well, it's practically filled with typos and other mistakes. They're all part of the original text itself.

 

The first issue I took note of though, is that the main parts of the MNOG II walkthrough really should come before Tales of the Masks in terms of chronology. The ending of Tales of the Masks leads directly into Mask of Light, and the meeting of the Turaga portrayed in that book happens right before the Kolhii championship.

 

I've just gotten to the Mask of Light part of Book 3 and I'm gonna echo this. It was kind of jarring to have Tales of the Masks end immediately before Mask of Light and then go backwards to MNOG2. I really liked the way MNOG was interspersed throughout Book 1 so might that be something that could be done with MNOG2 as well? I think it'd also alleviate the fact that the walkthrough is kinda relatively dry and personally I found it a chore to get through in one big chunk.

 

 

 

I also think Ignition is not a bad title for either 7 or 8.

 

 

I also agree with this tbh, even though I'm the one who suggested Rising as a replacement - I was taking at face value that it was supposed to refer to 2007 but apparently it's not so clear cut  :P I think Ignition just sounds really cool and even though what precisely it refers to is murky, I think it definitely could refer to the Ignika reawakening Mata Nui (switching on the ignition, if you will)

 

Last thought, dividing the books into parts based on the three virtues is genius and I can't believe how well they actually fit.


  • 0

#91 Offline Surel-Nuva

Surel-Nuva
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 20-October 16
  • 8 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 29 2017 - 04:43 AM

Am I the only one who miss the Glatorian Comic 4 from the 2009 story? Where Gelu battles with Skrall and some character mistaken the Ignika as a dead star? 


  • 0

#92 Offline Toa of Italy

Toa of Italy
  • Members
  • Stalwart Defender

  • 15-May 07
  • 451 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 29 2017 - 05:59 AM

Am I the only one who miss the Glatorian Comic 4 from the 2009 story? Where Gelu battles with Skrall and some character mistaken the Ignika as a dead star?


Comic 3, actually. No, I noticed that too, but I forgot to add it to my earlier post. Good thing you pointed it out. It should go between the current chapters 27 and 28.

  • 0

22729187_1575694159161550_64900224278336

 

My collection of epics: The Sanctum of Writing

 


#93 Offline ArchAngelleofJustice

ArchAngelleofJustice
  • Members
  • Turaga

  • 14-December 16
  • 81 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 29 2017 - 10:07 PM

I am really enjoying this method of re-reading the story so far. It is great to finally have the comics interspersed with the rest of the story.

 

I would like to suggest some additional changes to book 3.

As has been previously suggested, the bulk of the MNOG II walkthrough should take place before Tales of the Masks.

"Tales of the Rahkshi", currently on pp100-105, should take place one chapter earlier. It must come after what is currently Chapter 25, at the end of which Lewa meets up with Gali and Tahu, but before what is currently Chapter 26, where the Rahkshi are frozen by Kopaka. Alternatively, the "Tales of the Rahkshi" comic could be placed after the Rahkshi unthaw. The rest of the "Tales of the Rahkshi" comic, and the first part of the "At Last... Takanuva!" comic, currently pp108-120, create some continuity errors. In the comic, Kopaka meets up with Tahu, Gali and Lewa, while Pohatu and Onua are shown the kraata by Whenua in Po-Wahi. All six Raakshi are introduced, with the second batch appearing "new" to Kopaka. All six Toa are grouped together at the end of the comic. Chapter 31 and 32, pp121-124, take place in Onu-Koro. The "second batch" of Raakshi fight the Toa. At the end of chapter 32, the "first batch" of Rahkshi escape from the ice.

"A short distance away, on the shores of a frozen glacial lake, the setting sun’s rays touched the

end of a staff protruding out of the ice. As the last light faded and dusk fell, the staff and everything else
fell into dark shadow.
For a long moment, nothing moved. Then a flicker of dark energy burst out of the end of the
staff. The ice around it splintered and began to crack and melt."

This obviously doesn't make sense if the Rahkshi have already escaped.

(As a note, the Rahkshi cannot escape before p107, as Makuta states “My gentle sons bound in ice.” So, it is not sensible for the Rahkshi to escape before this page, and even the Rahkshi escaping soon after in the comics is a little jarring.)
 
The best way to fix this is to make all these comics (Currently pp100-105 and pp108-120) take place after Chapter 33. This allows the first batch of Rahkshi to escape from the ice at the end of Chapter 32, and for Gali to heal Tahu at the end of Chapter 33. Onua and Pohatu are not with the other Toa in Chapter 33, and Kopaka leaves at the end of Chapter 33. This lines up with the comics, which start with Tahu, Gali and Lewa together travelling to Po Wahi, to fight the first batch of Rahkshi (and Tahu without any indication of being poisoned by Lerahk). Onua and Pohatu are with Whenua in Po-Wahi, and Kopaka again is on his own and meets up with the others. Unfortunately, it doesn't give any indication as to why Kopaka, Onua and Pohatu are again separated from Gali, Tahu and Lewa for Chapter 34. Gali expresses surprise "our frosty friend had to rescue the chief miner", alluding to Onua and Pohatu being trapped in Onu-Koro, but this is the cleanest way to fix most continuity errors (and it's possible Pohatu and Onua got trapped somewhere else, at some later time). Obviously simply removing the two comics completely fixes all these continuity errors but that's not the point of this version of the book.

Edited by ArchAngelleofJustice, Oct 29 2017 - 10:07 PM.

  • 0

My Fanfiction

 

Parts of a Whole Series: An Alternate Ending

 

Part 1: Fight for Freedom (On FFN, Ao3, BZP                        Wisps of Memory (On FFN, Ao3, BZP)

Part 2: Army of One (Coming Soon!)


Short Stories: The Great Takara


#94 Offline Tamarutoe

Tamarutoe
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 30-June 09
  • 129 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 30 2017 - 12:27 AM

What an incredibly well-put together collection. I did something similar with everything I could copy-paste off of BS01, but I'm so grateful you had the dedication to add the books as well. You're the editor Bionicle deserves.


  • 0

Mantax can win connect four in three moves.


#95 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Oct 30 2017 - 10:43 AM

Okay, wow is there a lot of feedback! Sorry for taking so long to respond to any of the new posts; I was really busy this weekend.

 

I've updated Book 3 to address most of the concerns raised about it. This includes:

  • Moving MNOG 2 chapters 1-8 to before Tales of the Masks. I knew that these chapters took place before Tales of the Masks, but I originally placed them afterward so that they wouldn't be so cut off from their final chapter (which is broken up throughout Mask of Light). But the majority opinion definitely seems to be that they should come first so I've moved them. Note: I would have preferred to splice the chapters of MNOG 2 in-between the chapters of Tales of the Masks, but the way that TotM is written (stories of the past in-between short bits of the present, with chapter breaks serving as the transition) makes this not work well
  • Almost all issues reported by Toatapio Nuva have been fixed. All typos he listed should now be fixed, as well as the moments that contradict canon. I haven't un-capitalized every word with an unnecessary capitalization, but I intend to when I have time. I also haven't converted MNOG 2 to past-tense, and I think I would like to do so, but that will be a serious undertaking and will take some time.
  • The comics have been moved to the location suggested by ArchAngelleofJustice. Those comics were, by far, the hardest to find a good place for in the entire compilation, since there are several moments that seem to contradict the order of events in Mask of Light (it got me wondering how much re-writing MoL may have gone through before release). The reason I had placed them where I did was to line up the comic's portrayal of Makuta creating the second set of Rahkshi with when it happens in MoL, but clearly that still created issues. ArchAngelleofJustice's suggestion made sense to me (and also allowed me to add back the wonderful "What is Rahkshi?" line, since it no longer contradicts the comics), so I went with it.
  • The Legend Continues has NOT been added, and I honestly don't currently have any intention of doing so. I looked into it while putting together the compilation, and it doesn't seem to add anything to the story. If someone makes a good case for its inclusion, I'll definitely reconsider, but right now it seems unnecessary.

 

I promise I'll get to everything else that was posted, but there's a lot to go through, so I wanted to focus on the Book with the most feedback first.


  • 1

#96 Offline Toatapio Nuva

Toatapio Nuva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Anger Pacified

  • 10-December 04
  • 6,536 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 30 2017 - 12:11 PM

Having taken a quick look at the revised book 3, there are still a few things to mention.

 

Firstly, the current chapter 8 (on page 36) ends with Vakama's words “The Toa, Turaga, and all of these three Koro have assembled within these walls to see the Championship. Go now to the Kolhii field, and face your destiny.” But then we suddenly go to the Turaga's meeting before the game. I would suggest moving chapter 8 to after the meeting of the Turaga (so between chapter 15 and 16).

 

I also noted that you changed some of the references to all villages being in the game, but not all. For example, Whenua still mentions Onu-Koro going to see the match. I see you edited Vakama's line to talk about "these three Koro", but I think it would make sense to change that to "Ta-Koro, Po-Koro and Ga-Koro", since we don't really know which three Koro made it to the championship until that moment.

 

The Rahkshi comic indeed is difficult to place anywhere without contradicting canon. I do think the current order is fine, though there's still the quite glaring contradiction with Gali talking about Kopaka saving Onua and Pohatu. There is one order I've figured out that should be almost entirely compatible with canon: placing all of the comics where they were before the edit, and moving the short paragraph with the Rahkshi escaping the ice just before that, at the end of chapter 27. You would still need to omit the "What's a Rahkshi?" later, but aside from that the order would then be compatible with everything else. I understand if you don't want to change the order again, but I decided to share the idea anyway.


Edited by Toatapio Nuva, Oct 30 2017 - 12:11 PM.

  • 2

#97 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Oct 30 2017 - 01:06 PM

Having taken a quick look at the revised book 3, there are still a few things to mention.
 
Firstly, the current chapter 8 (on page 36) ends with Vakama's words “The Toa, Turaga, and all of these three Koro have assembled within these walls to see the Championship. Go now to the Kolhii field, and face your destiny.” But then we suddenly go to the Turaga's meeting before the game. I would suggest moving chapter 8 to after the meeting of the Turaga (so between chapter 15 and 16).
 
I also noted that you changed some of the references to all villages being in the game, but not all. For example, Whenua still mentions Onu-Koro going to see the match. I see you edited Vakama's line to talk about "these three Koro", but I think it would make sense to change that to "Ta-Koro, Po-Koro and Ga-Koro", since we don't really know which three Koro made it to the championship until that moment.
 
The Rahkshi comic indeed is difficult to place anywhere without contradicting canon. I do think the current order is fine, though there's still the quite glaring contradiction with Gali talking about Kopaka saving Onua and Pohatu. There is one order I've figured out that should be almost entirely compatible with canon: placing all of the comics where they were before the edit, and moving the short paragraph with the Rahkshi escaping the ice just before that, at the end of chapter 27. You would still need to omit the "What's a Rahkshi?" later, but aside from that the order would then be compatible with everything else. I understand if you don't want to change the order again, but I decided to share the idea anyway.

You're totally right about Chapter 8; I've now moved it.

The specific lines you mentioned have been fixed, though I haven't yet had time to read through the whole thing for other references to all the Koro going to the tournament.

I'll think about your suggestion with the comics, though wouldn't that still contradict Makuta mentioning the Rahkshi being trapped in ice? Gali's line is a little odd, but since an indeterminate amount of time has passed since the Toa were last seen together, it could theoretically refer to another event.

  • 0

#98 Offline Toatapio Nuva

Toatapio Nuva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Anger Pacified

  • 10-December 04
  • 6,536 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 30 2017 - 01:28 PM

wouldn't that still contradict Makuta mentioning the Rahkshi being trapped in ice?

 

No, because the part where Makuta says that would be directly before the Rahkshi actually break free. The order would be:

1. Makuta scares Takua in the tunnel

2. Makuta releases the other three Rahkshi (and mentions the previous three being bound in ice)

3. The previous Rahkshi break free from the ice

4. The comics

 

but since an indeterminate amount of time has passed since the Toa were last seen together, it could theoretically refer to another event.

 

That's true, but since we are actually shown Onua and Pohatu getting buried, but given no resolution to it in between, the intended connection is quite clear. It'll also be something that the reader will think about. They'll think "doesn't that refer to that time they were buried in Onu-Koro?" rather than "although I was told about them getting buried earlier, maybe they got buried again after they got free and I just didn't see them get out of it the last time?"


Edited by Toatapio Nuva, Oct 30 2017 - 01:29 PM.

  • 2

#99 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Oct 30 2017 - 04:05 PM

wouldn't that still contradict Makuta mentioning the Rahkshi being trapped in ice?

 
No, because the part where Makuta says that would be directly before the Rahkshi actually break free. The order would be:
1. Makuta scares Takua in the tunnel
2. Makuta releases the other three Rahkshi (and mentions the previous three being bound in ice)
3. The previous Rahkshi break free from the ice
4. The comics
 

but since an indeterminate amount of time has passed since the Toa were last seen together, it could theoretically refer to another event.

 
That's true, but since we are actually shown Onua and Pohatu getting buried, but given no resolution to it in between, the intended connection is quite clear. It'll also be something that the reader will think about. They'll think "doesn't that refer to that time they were buried in Onu-Koro?" rather than "although I was told about them getting buried earlier, maybe they got buried again after they got free and I just didn't see them get out of it the last time?"

Okay, I think I slightly misunderstood your suggested order at first (or you misremembered where some of the comic pages were originally). I like this suggestion, and your arguments make sense. I've now changed all instances of Book 3 to match what you proposed.
 
 
 
By the way, Toa of Italy: I promise I'm looking through everything you said, it's just taking a while!

EDIT: Okay, while I'd rather have this all in a new post, nobody else has posted yet (and I assume BZP's double-posting rules are as strict as ever). So I'm just editing this in here:

Infection (2001):

  • Ok, so the first thing is that the Quest for the Toa game is entirely missing. Of course, this isn't your fault, since a walkthrough was never written, but I think that game is an important portion of the storyline, so you might want to either write one or find someone who can write it. I have a version of the game saved on my PC, but right now I'm too busy to get around to doing this. Still, if someone wants to try, I can pass the game on to them.
  • I'd put the current chapter 14, where Tahu finds his Akaku just after the current Chapter 9, since it is explicitly stated to immediately follow the first meeting of the Toa. It also gives Jala more time to move between the village, where he meets Takua, and the spot where Tahu runs into him.
  • Starting from chapter 16, I think the order should be (using the current chapter numbers) 16-18-20 and 24 up to the scene of Lewa and Kopaka from the style guide. Then 17 and 21, so that it is realistically possible for Lewa to have finished gathering his masks at the end of 21, like shown in the game (though you might still omit Lewa's Golden Kanohi appearing on that occasion). Following this we can have 19, since it is only now that it is possible for six Matoran from different koro to travel across Mata Nui and meet together. After that Jaller might return to Ta-Koro and meet with Takua in 22, then 23. 25 would begin with the scene of Tahu acquiring his Kaukau.
Swarm (2002-2003):
  • Since the flooding of Onu-Koro and invention of the Boxor seems to occur immediately after Onua reaches his village, I would put it before Chapter 9, which sees Onua otherwise engaged. Consequently, you could either choose to change the order of the Wall of History and put the Boxor bit first, or else place the first 4 wall of history entries all together before Chapter 8 or 9.
  • The timeline after the theft of the Nuva Symbols is somewhat jumbled, with the animations and the book describing in different ways how the Toa go on to meet again (as well as confusing which Bohrok-Kal stole which symbol). Still, I'd place the two corresponding wall of history entries (Theft of Fire and Out of their Elements) before Chapter 23.
Masks (2003):
  • I'm guessing you interpreted the meeting of Tales of the Masks as the one where the Turaga decide to hold a Kolhii tournament. I think you're mistaken, it is clearly explained that it is the one that takes place just before the final (though in MoL only Vakama, Onewa and Nokama appear there, in MNOG2 the Turaga say they will all attend the final, so there is no contradiction). So you should place the MNOG2 Walkthrough before Tales of the Masks (except for the last chapter of the former).
  • I'm not sure whether you should bother with this, but the game that was once on the MoL movie website, The Legend Continues, is more or less canon (it is mentioned in BIONICLE World, for instance). If you want, I have trascribed the dialogues without adding anything of my own, though I've placed them into a realistic order so as to bypass the need to "choose your adventure" (I posted them on BZP too some time back, but they seem to have disappeared). Fitting them into the rest of the story isn't easy, but it can be done.
Legends (2004):
  • At the end of Chapter 5 you might want to put in the page from Comic 16 where Vakama is attacked by the Morbuzakh just after saving Nuhrii.
  • I don't quite understand why you transported the scene in which the Toa Metru jump into the chute after the comics. That scene clearly takes place in the Coliseum. After the battle against the Tahtorak, the Toa simply take another chute to Ko-Metru and that's where we find them in the next chapter of Legends of Metru Nui.
Venom (2005):
  • The timeline of Challenge of the Hordika and that of the comics seems a bit mixed up. From the scene of Nuju and Kualus's descent into the Archives up to the end of the last 2005 comic the events of the comics clearly take place one after the other without any interruption and we know from Hanging by a thread that this occurs after Challenge of the Hordika. Moreover, in Vengeance of the Visorak the Toa Hordika have already learnt to charge their Rhotuka, unlike in Challenge of the Hordika (at least as far as Nokama is concerned). I think you should just place all the 2005 comics (except for the first one, Monsters in the Dark, and the scene of Matau and Iruini in Vengeance of the Visorak) between the chapters taken from Challenge of the Hordika and those taken from Web of Shadows (I'd suggest after the Mask of Light animations, since Roodaka's last line clearly alludes to her plan to bring Vakama to her side and so it makes sense for this to happen immediately afterwards).
  • Why did you insert Birth of a Dark Hunter before Web of Shadows? I don't think it makes a lot of sense there. I'd advise either to transport it to 2006 and splice it between the chapters from Legacy of Evil or else, if you want to keep it in 2005, put it as a prologue to the Time Trap chapters, since that book is where Nidhiki's past as a Toa is first mentioned.
Doomed (2006):
  • I would suggest transporting the scene of Reidak and Thok from the first comic to just after the ones taken from the second comic. This way, they appear to be still together after Axonn's attack and it links directly to Reidak's subsequent comment about throwing Thok off a cliff.
  • During the stronghold battle, you could insert the comic pages of Hahli facing Thok.
  • Perhaps, to give continuity between Legacy of Evil and Inferno, you could place Inferno's prologue, with the Great Beings, at the beginning of Book Six, so as to serve as prologue for the whole thing.
  • Since Varian appears in the main storyline only in Legacy of Evil, I think it would be more appropriate to place her story around there somewhere, rather than at the end of Book Six, where it is a bit decontextualized.
Sacrifice (2007):
  • Personally, I believe the scene of the defeat of the Barraki should act as prologue for Book 7. The Many Deaths of Toa Tuyet could be used simply as prologue for Into the Darkness and thus transported further down.
  • Between Chapters 3 and 4 you might want to place the final scenes of Comic 6 (Web Comic) and the first ones of Comic 7, detailing the gathering and encounter of the Barraki (later, for coherence, you should omit the line that says that Takadox hasn't risen to his feet in ages).
Rising (2008):
  • OK, this is going to be a little complicated. First of all, I believe you should remove Federation of Fear from where it is now, so that after the prologue of Shadows in the Sky we directly get The Mutran Chronicles and then the blinding of the Makuta. After that, the prologue of Swamp of Secrets, featuring Takanuva, should be removed as well.
  • We thus have the scene of the arrival of the Toa Nuva, which you should keep up to the end of Comic 12.5. Following this there is a period, as specified by Shadows in the Sky, where the three Phantoka Toa Nuva fight an unspecified number of battles against the Makuta. In this space we can easily fit the attack on Takanuva, the arrival of the Mistika Toa Nuva in the swamp and, overall, the three first chapters and interludes of Swamp of Secrets (I'd suggest preserving the sequence of chapters and interludes of BL10, since they refer to each other). The reason for this placement is that in Chapter 3 of BL10 we see Chirox plummet down from above, struck by one of the Phantoka Toa Nuva. However, no such episode occurs in BL9, meaning that it probably happened in the period of time between the third and fourth chapter of the latter book.
  • Now we can return to the Phantoka and thus have all the remaining chapters of Shadows in the Sky, which occur in relatively quick succession. Meanwhile, we imagine that in the swamp some time occurs before the Mistika Makuta and Toa meet again. After the end of Shadows in the Sky, we should see the remaining chapters and interludes of Swamp of Secrets (this is coherent with the fact that in Chapter 4 of BL10 the Mistika Makuta receive a telepathic communication telling them of the battle at the end of BL9) and then the epilogue of BL10 and Takanuva's departure.
  • Now it's time to insert the serials. Regarding Takanuva, the sequence should be, I think, The Kingdom, Journey of Takanuva, Dark Mirror (yes, I know that GregF once said that Journey of Takanuva comes before The Kingdom, but this way the intro to the latter story makes more sense and in addition we can explain the Power Lance in the former book without having to call in artistic licence).
  • FoF should also go here, I think. Why here and not at the beginning? Simply because there isn't enough time for it to happen before. Three days pass between the revival of the Great Spirit and the arrival of the Toa Nuva in Karda Nui: that same time occurs just between chapters 3 and 4 of FoF. Furthermore, we know that the shadow leech which attacks Takanuva is dropped by Icarax. Consequently, if Brutaka were to go to Metru Nui after FoF, it means that FoF would have to conclude before Vican's meeting with Icarax in Shadows in the Sky, five days or so after the Great Spirit's revival. There isn't time for that. On the contrary, it is never said how much time passes between BL10 and BL11 (I think a lot, since the Makuta needed to hold the Toa back long enough for Teridax to assume control over the Great Spirit Robot, which can't have been an easy task). We can thus fit FoF in there; it is also appropriate for FoF and Dark Mirror to happen at the same time, since they were released at the same time.
  • FoF leads us straight into Destiny War. The serial chapter order should be this, I believe: DW1 DW2 DiD1 DiD2 DW3 DiD3 BiA4 (you might put the first three chapters of Brothers in Arms here too to serve as prologues; scattering them in the text is less effective, in my opinion) DW4 DiD4 BiA5 DiD5 DW5 DW6 BiA6 DiD6. I think BL11 (spliced with Takanuva's Blog where needed) should start around here. It's a bit late, but there is a pause of sorts in the rhythm of the serials at this point (with the exception of the Toa Hagah storyline, where the pause is in the middle of DiD7), so it's as good a place as any. BiA7 (along with 8 and 9, at this point) should happen before the Toa Nuva enter the Codrex (since there is no mention of the vehicles, plus Icarax is too busy after that to summon Vultraz). During the battles that follow said entrance, we should see DW7 DW8 DiD7 DiD8 DiD9 (to be honest, I didn't fully check your own order, though DiD9 can't go after the BL11 epilogue, since the Great Spirit has not yet been awakened there). Then the Toa escape the Codrex, we have DW9 and then the epilogue where Teridax announces his takeover of the universe.
Destiny (2009-2010):
  • I don't quite understand why you didn't use Fall and Rise of the Skrall and The Exile's Tale as prologues. I think they're perfectly suited for that. I also don't get why you use Empire of the Skrall in flashbacks.
  • I think that the first three chapters of Empire of the Skrall should go after Comic 1. They don't just tell the story of the conflict between Malum and the Vorox; apart from informing us of the Baterra, they see Tuma acquire a plan of the Bone Hunters for a raid on Vulcanus. This plan Tuma leaks to the Hero Agori, who will later send it to Vulcanus.
  • The story of the Hero Agori takes place between Comic 1 and The Crossing (we know this because the Hero Agori recruits Glatorian to defend Vulcanus from a Bone Hunter attack and in the Crossing Fero remembers such an attack failing). If you want, I wrote a walkthrough of that game and can send it to you (I've tried to report the dialogue without changing anything, except a few explanatory sentences).
  • Before the Fall of Atero, I think we should have EotS4 and EotS5. They explain the events behind the decision of the Skrall to attack.
  • The rest of the Empire of the Skrall chapters should go between the conclusion of RotGB and Raid on Vulcanus. If you don't want to insert them there to avoid spoiling the traitor's identity, I suppose you could place them as flashbacks just after the revelation in The Legend Reborn.
  • All our sins remembered is Raanu's flashback and occurs between Raid on Vulcanus and The Legend Reborn, since it refers to the Ackar-Strakk match that we see in the latter book. Thus I think that's where it should go. In its current place you could put Decadence.
  • Before the Skrall attack on Tajun you could put the scene of Kirbraz, Scodonius and Crotesius training outside Tajun, featured in Comic 4.
  • The placement of Reign of Shadows episodes is mostly arbitrary. However, I think you should place all the Takanuva's Blog entries before RoS, since in the former the Toa are still trying to figure out the situation following Teridax's takeover and haven't yet linked with the Dark Hunters, while they have in RoS1. I also think you should get to RoS8 before Comic 5 (Valley of Fear), so as to attach to the end of that Comic the scene of Teridax's takeoff (which might have been the reason why he didn't intervene immediately to stop the intruders in the Core Processor) Then we could see the first 3 chapters of Journey's End, RoS9, Chapter 4 of Journey's End, RoS10 (which takes place after Nektann's departure from Zakaz) and RoS11, then the rest of Journey's End and finally RoS12 (though in truth you might move the scene of the Shadow Takanuva in RoS9 to before RoS12, since that battle was way shorter than Journey's End.
Book 1:
  • I am interested in including Quest for the Toa in some form, though as you said, there's no walkthrough for it (at least, not one written like MNOG's). That said, I'm not sure how enjoyable such a walkthrough would be to read, since, if I remember correctly, the game is light on text, and the actual events that occur aren't particularly interesting (other than the Toa Stones sending the signal to the canisters)
  • Good point about Chapter 14 (also the BS01 Timeline agrees with you). I've moved it.
  • I'm not convinced of the need to do such a heavy reordering basically just to make it so that Lewa can have all his masks by that chapter of MNOG. I already removed that passage (about him collecting all his masks and getting his gold mask), since the golden mask part contradicts both the books and MNOG (since his mask is shown turning gold later). Also, if he already had all of his masks before getting controlled by the infected mask (which he must have if he had all of them after it's removed, since he didn't gain any new mask immediately after losing the infected mask), he would've had all of his masks way before the rest of the Toa, which seems incorrect. It also doesn't feel right to say that the Toa split into groups to look for masks, then Lewa left and got infected, Onua left and saved him, and then they resumed looking for masks in groups. In the current order, though, Gali mentions at the beginning of Chapter 24 that Lewa keeps wandering away from the group, which allows for him to have visited his village and had the incident with the infected mask, before returning to the group for the rest of the mask hunting. Oh, and Challenge of the Rahi is placed according to BS01's timeline, and it seems possible for it to happen there.
Book 2:
  • Good point about the flood. I've moved the Wall of History entry about it earlier: it puts it out-of-sequence with the others, but I don't think that really matters.
  • I think I slightly prefer "Out of their Elements" in its current location, but if someone else says they want it moved then I'll do it. I think it works pretty much as well in either spot.
Book 3: This should all be addressed in my above posts about Book 3
 
 
Book 4:
  • Good call, I've added that comic scene.
  • Since the first of those comics begins with them on top of a building, and the last of the comics doesn't describe them entering a chute, I thought it would read more clearly to have the scene where they enter the chute after the comics.
Book 5:
  • The '05 comics are, indeed, very much sliced up and placed wherever they can fit. However, I based their placement on BS01's Timeline, and I'm pleased with how Nuju and Kualus' conversation about learning from rahi lines up between the books and the comics, as well as Whenua and Bomonga's trip to the Archives. Also, I put the MoL animations where I did to explain the "Despite their recent victory" line at the beginning of the next book chapter: this line, to me, didn't make much sense right after the last comic.
  • I don't have a strong opinion on where Birth of a Dark Hunter goes, other than that I would prefer it in '05 rather than '06. I considered making it an epilogue to Book 5, but that book already has several somewhat unrelated stories at the end, and I thought that might be one too many. I've moved it to just before Time Trap, which seems fine.
Book 6:
  • I'm not sure what to say to this other than that I disagree. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like it flows better as-is.
  • Good suggestion. I'll add those in as soon as I get the chance to scan them.
  • Interesting suggestion, but I don't think I like the idea of having the Mask of Life brought up in that prologue before being mentioned anywhere else.
  • Fair enough. I've moved it to just before Inferno's prologue.
Book 7:
  • Again, fair enough. I've moved The Many Deaths of Toa Tuyet to just after the end of Legends 6.
  • Good call, done.
Book 8:
  • I'm not sure what to say except that that's when Federation of Fear happens. I think, reading the story, that the amount of time certain events take is fuzzy, and FoF doesn't stand out as being too long. If other people say they agree that it's an issue, then I'll re-evaluate.
  • You may have a point about the Chirox thing, but I need to go read back through and confirm. I'll reorder as necessary to account for that (just note that I haven't done so yet).
  • The point about the telepathic signal also makes sense, and I'll look into it as well.
  • I originally considered putting Journey of Takanuva after Dark Mirror, but upon re-reading all 3, I think JoT makes sense first, from a writing standpoint: all three of those stories are about Takanuva learning that good and evil aren't always clear-cut, and he's clearly the most naive about that idea in JoT. It doesn't seem believable that he would act the way he does in JoT if he's already been through the Kingdom and Dark Mirror. Also, I don't like the idea of lumping all the Takanuva stuff together.
  • See above about FoF
  • I'm not sure what exactly your reasoning is behind this specific order for the serial chapters, so let me just say: I ordered them with as much mixing as possible, so that the gap between any 2 chapters of a given serial/book is as small as possible (so the reader doesn't forget what's going on with any set of characters), but so that they're still in an order that makes sense. I believe that multiple chapters from the same serial should be directly next to each other as little as possible, since they seem clearly written not to be read immediately after one another (reflecting the way they were released). I'm also extremely firm on the order of the last few chapters of everything, as I think the way I've arranged the last chapter and epilogue of The Final Battle and the last chapters of DiD and DW works perfectly.
Book 9:
  • Both Fall and Rise of the Skrall and The Exile's Tale were originally at the beginning of Book 9, but someone suggested that they would be better read later, after the reader is introduced to those characters elsewhere (and other people, including myself, agreed).
  • I know what Empire of the Skrall contains. I don't think that it's as good an introduction to Bara Magna as The Crossing.
  • Go ahead and send me that walkthrough and I'll take a look at it. I came across the story of the Hero Agori when putting this compilation together, but didn't see a good way to include it.
  • My issue with that is that it would put chapters EotS 5 and 6 too far apart from each other. I'd like the reader to remember EotS 5 when they get to 6.
  • The reveal of the Traitor in EotS is just after the end of TLR, for exactly the reason you described.
  • I know when All Our Sins Remembered takes place, which is why I added the "Weeks Ago..." textbox to it. It reveals too much about the history of Bara Magna to be placed that early. I can't tell if you're saying you don't like the current position of Decadence, or just that it could fill the slot where AOSR is if that were to move; regardless, I like Decadence just after Tarix and Vastus agree to work together, since it then gives more detail on their history (multiple users agreed with placing it there).
  • Good point, I'll include that once I get the chance to scan it.
  • I've moved Takanuva's Blog, as you're correct about the sequence of events there (having it all in one place also helps the reader not get it confused with Mata Nui's ongoing diary entries). However, I already considered trying to get RoS8 in before Comic 5 so as to include the end of the comic, but I think it just packs too many RoS entries too close together. The other changes you've suggested here seem arbitrary.

Edited by TuragaNuva, Oct 31 2017 - 04:06 PM.

  • 0

#100 Offline Toa of Italy

Toa of Italy
  • Members
  • Stalwart Defender

  • 15-May 07
  • 451 posts
  •  

Posted Oct 31 2017 - 06:00 PM


  • Go ahead and send me that walkthrough and I'll take a look at it. I came across the story of the Hero Agori when putting this compilation together, but didn't see a good way to include it.

 

OK, just found out that someone had my same idea on BS01 and did a better job than me, too, so I'll just give you the link to the page (assuming you didn't already know about this):

 

http://biosector01.c...ign_Walkthrough


  • 0

22729187_1575694159161550_64900224278336

 

My collection of epics: The Sanctum of Writing

 


#101 Offline WindFlyLewa

WindFlyLewa
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 08-October 17
  • 1 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 01 2017 - 11:50 AM

Great! There even are comics from BIONICLE 8: Legends of Bara Magna that are missing form BioMedia Project,

from a quick check at least I see Fall and Rise of the Skrall and All Our Sins Remembered, I don't see The Exile's Tale.

Also there is no Comic 6: All That Glitters and Comic 7: Rebirth.

 

Wish you could made PDF with just the graphic novels?

I just bought two, another one I'm waiting a month and I'm afraid it won't came,

and they are used in not best condition,

those that I have supposed to be in "very good condition" but have creases on lot of pages from folded corners :(

and most available used to buy are in "acceptable condition" don't really wanna buy them in that bad condition,

especially how expensive it is for me to buy with delivery do poland :(


  • 0

#102 Offline Alligaytorrr

Alligaytorrr
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 24-October 17
  • 11 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 02 2017 - 01:52 AM

As far as Quest for the Toa is concerned, I think it would work well as a one chapter prologue in Book 1, if someone is up to the task. I think it'd be best to just skip the dialogue, which was pretty dull and basic, and just write a short, few paragraph long summary. I -maybe- could put something together sometime this weekend if TuragaNuva is behind the idea. I don't have much experience with writing fiction but I write well in general and just replayed the game a couple weeks ago, so I could give it a shot.
  • 0

#103 Offline Surel-Nuva

Surel-Nuva
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 20-October 16
  • 8 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 02 2017 - 05:49 AM

This is fantasatic,Great Job!

 

Couldn't you include the additional information (like the names of the Matoran who talked with the Toa Metru) from the Toa Metru Mini Promo CDs to the BA1: MoMN' content? That would be nice to see the names of the Matoran there. As long as I'm right the promo CDs' materials are canon (so it was Kiwi sho told Ahkmou that the Dark Hunters were looking for him at the Chute Station... okay,the only non-canon part from Nokama's CD is where she rescuses Vhisola from her "trap," but otherwise the CDs' contents don't contradict with the BA1) 

 

I meant that the dialogues with these Matoran could be inserted into the book's content via flashbacks, or replacing the book's content to from "matoran" "teacher" etc with the correct names of them. (Amaya, Talvi, Kalama, etc) I've done this for the BS01, it wasn't a problem (only had to mach the book's sentences with the Matoran's sentences from the CDs) :D

 

 

 

Am I the only one who miss the Glatorian Comic 4 from the 2009 story? Where Gelu battles with Skrall and some character mistaken the Ignika as a dead star?


Comic 3, actually. No, I noticed that too, but I forgot to add it to my earlier post. Good thing you pointed it out. It should go between the current chapters 27 and 28.

 

 

I also noticed that some of the Comic 4 lines are not in the books, such as a full page, where Ackar informs Mata Nui  about the Bone Hunters, and what they want. Okay, in the Bone Hunters attack first, and after appears the Skopio, but that's just a little detail about how the movie's script changed. 

 

Also, in the Journey's End comics there's a line where Makuta states that the "Bara Magna is mine" which as I remember not in the book. 

 

Is there a way to find lines from the comics which were left from the books and include them in this collection? That would be nice.


  • 0

#104 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Nov 02 2017 - 08:10 AM

Okay, first of all: thank you all so much for making this one of the Top 5 most up-voted topics in Bionicle Discussion! It means a lot to me that people are so excited about this project.

 

OK, just found out that someone had my same idea on BS01 and did a better job than me, too, so I'll just give you the link to the page (assuming you didn't already know about this):
 
http://biosector01.c...ign_Walkthrough

I thought I'd looked at that before, but now I'm not sure. I'll read through it more thoroughly and look into including it.
 
 

Great! There even are comics from BIONICLE 8: Legends of Bara Magna that are missing form BioMedia Project,
from a quick check at least I see Fall and Rise of the Skrall and All Our Sins Remembered, I don't see The Exile's Tale.
Also there is no Comic 6: All That Glitters and Comic 7: Rebirth.
 
Wish you could made PDF with just the graphic novels?
I just bought two, another one I'm waiting a month and I'm afraid it won't came,
and they are used in not best condition,
those that I have supposed to be in "very good condition" but have creases on lot of pages from folded corners :(
and most available used to buy are in "acceptable condition" don't really wanna buy them in that bad condition,
especially how expensive it is for me to buy with delivery do poland :(

I may make a collection of just the comics, but that will have to wait until I've addressed all the feedback on this compilation. I'll try to go ahead and send BMP the comics I have digitally that they're missing.
 
 

As far as Quest for the Toa is concerned, I think it would work well as a one chapter prologue in Book 1, if someone is up to the task. I think it'd be best to just skip the dialogue, which was pretty dull and basic, and just write a short, few paragraph long summary. I -maybe- could put something together sometime this weekend if TuragaNuva is behind the idea. I don't have much experience with writing fiction but I write well in general and just replayed the game a couple weeks ago, so I could give it a shot.

That might work well. I think my only concern would be how well that would serve as an introduction to Bionicle as a whole (since it would be the beginning of the very first Book). Maybe it could go right after "The Legend"? Anyway, if you've played through the game recently, your memory of it will be infinitely better than mine, so it'd be great if you wanted to take a stab at writing something up.
 
 

This is fantasatic,Great Job!
 
Couldn't you include the additional information (like the names of the Matoran who talked with the Toa Metru) from the Toa Metru Mini Promo CDs to the BA1: MoMN' content? That would be nice to see the names of the Matoran there. As long as I'm right the promo CDs' materials are canon (so it was Kiwi sho told Ahkmou that the Dark Hunters were looking for him at the Chute Station... okay,the only non-canon part from Nokama's CD is where she rescuses Vhisola from her "trap," but otherwise the CDs' contents don't contradict with the BA1)

 
I meant that the dialogues with these Matoran could be inserted into the book's content via flashbacks, or replacing the book's content to from "matoran" "teacher" etc with the correct names of them. (Amaya, Talvi, Kalama, etc) I've done this for the BS01, it wasn't a problem (only had to mach the book's sentences with the Matoran's sentences from the CDs) :D

Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about you! Sorry, I've been really busy responding to other feedback, and hadn't had a chance to get back to your post(s) yet. That seems like it makes sense, and is easy enough to do. I'll look that up on BS01 and see about including those.
 

Am I the only one who miss the Glatorian Comic 4 from the 2009 story? Where Gelu battles with Skrall and some character mistaken the Ignika as a dead star?


Comic 3, actually. No, I noticed that too, but I forgot to add it to my earlier post. Good thing you pointed it out. It should go between the current chapters 27 and 28.

 
I also noticed that some of the Comic 4 lines are not in the books, such as a full page, where Ackar informs Mata Nui  about the Bone Hunters, and what they want. Okay, in the Bone Hunters attack first, and after appears the Skopio, but that's just a little detail about how the movie's script changed. 
 
Also, in the Journey's End comics there's a line where Makuta states that the "Bara Magna is mine" which as I remember not in the book. 
 
Is there a way to find lines from the comics which were left from the books and include them in this collection? That would be nice.

There are a lot of individual lines that are missing/added/different in the comics vs. the books, which is why I've been focusing more on making sure all scenes are present, rather than all lines. I'd like to edit the actual text as little as possible, so if the entire page/panel a comic line is on doesn't fit well into the compilation, I probably won't include it. I did make an exception to to include a comic-exclusive line from 2002, but only because it comes up later in the books.

That said, I will be adding in the comics that it has been pointed out are missing, as soon as I find the time to scan them.

  • 0

#105 Offline Toatapio Nuva

Toatapio Nuva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Anger Pacified

  • 10-December 04
  • 6,536 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 02 2017 - 08:18 AM

 

That might work well. I think my only concern would be how well that would serve as an introduction to Bionicle as a whole (since it would be the beginning of the very first Book). Maybe it could go right after "The Legend"? Anyway, if you've played through the game recently, your memory of it will be infinitely better than mine, so it'd be great if you wanted to take a stab at writing something up.

 

Perhaps a Quest for the Toa walkthrough could serve as the epilogue to book 1, rather than a prologue? The whole idea of MNOG is that Takua doesn't remember what has happened before, and the reader is supposed to share that confusion of time and place with him. But at the end of MNOG, both Takua's names and a few details of his past deeds are revealed. MNOG ends with Takua returning to Ta-Koro with Vakama, which would logically be the time he would be told of his past adventures. Therefore, I feel like the Quest of the Toa should be an epilogue with a "shortly before the arrival of the Toa", or another introduction.

 

With regards to the Hero Agori story, even though it's canon, it doesn't add anything to the story, so I doubt it would fit the compilation well. That's just my personal opinion, though.

 

As with adding the names of MNOGII characters in the books, wouldn't that stray from the goal of keeping the books as original as possible? I don't really see the benefit of arbitrarily changing text in the books just to include a few MNOGII names, even if said names are canon.


  • 0

#106 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Nov 02 2017 - 08:26 AM

That might work well. I think my only concern would be how well that would serve as an introduction to Bionicle as a whole (since it would be the beginning of the very first Book). Maybe it could go right after "The Legend"? Anyway, if you've played through the game recently, your memory of it will be infinitely better than mine, so it'd be great if you wanted to take a stab at writing something up.

 
Perhaps a Quest for the Toa walkthrough could serve as the epilogue to book 1, rather than a prologue? The whole idea of MNOG is that Takua doesn't remember what has happened before, and the reader is supposed to share that confusion of time and place with him. But at the end of MNOG, both Takua's names and a few details of his past deeds are revealed. MNOG ends with Takua returning to Ta-Koro with Vakama, which would logically be the time he would be told of his past adventures. Therefore, I feel like the Quest of the Toa should be an epilogue with a "shortly before the arrival of the Toa", or another introduction.

Good idea! That makes a lot of sense, and addresses my concerns.


With regards to the Hero Agori story, even though it's canon, it doesn't add anything to the story, so I doubt it would fit the compilation well. That's just my personal opinion, though.

I remember that being my previous impression of it, but I wanted to read it over a little more before saying that for sure. I will probably end up feeling similarly.


As with adding the names of MNOGII characters in the books, wouldn't that stray from the goal of keeping the books as original as possible? I don't really see the benefit of arbitrarily changing text in the books just to include a few MNOGII names, even if said names are canon.

Definitely a good point. I still want to take a look at how it would read with the names inserted before making a final decision, but you're right, it wouldn't add much.

  • 0

#107 Offline Surel-Nuva

Surel-Nuva
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 20-October 16
  • 8 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 03 2017 - 08:32 AM

Little bit of a trivia: The released MNOG walktrough is wrong for accpording to it, Ga-Koro is the 'st chapter, and Ta-Koro is the 2nd. But according to the original release order, found on the BS01, and the original "released" version (which included the chapters and can be downloaded here, from the official bionicle.com's archived page - I tried it, and it works) Ta-Koro is the first chapter (Takua goes there at first), and Ga-Koro is the second (what Takua visits after talking with Turaga Vakama). And for the walktrough was written by a fan, it can be rearranged/rewritten to mach with the actual story, isn't it?


  • 0

#108 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Nov 03 2017 - 09:07 AM

Little bit of a trivia: The released MNOG walktrough is wrong for accpording to it, Ga-Koro is the 'st chapter, and Ta-Koro is the 2nd. But according to the original release order, found on the BS01, and the original "released" version (which included the chapters and can be downloaded here, from the official bionicle.com's archived page - I tried it, and it works) Ta-Koro is the first chapter (Takua goes there at first), and Ga-Koro is the second (what Takua visits after talking with Turaga Vakama). And for the walktrough was written by a fan, it can be rearranged/rewritten to mach with the actual story, isn't it?

While it's true that, when MNOG was originally released, Ta-Koro was available before Ga-Koro, the re-release of MNOG (which fixed non-canon elements, such as replacing "Tohunga" with "Matoran") had these sections playable in either order. Since the walkthrough released at the same time says Ga-Koro came first, it seems that this is canonically what happened. It also flows better this way, putting some time in-between Takua's first 2 attempts to go in the direction of Ta-Koro.

Edited by TuragaNuva, Nov 03 2017 - 09:08 AM.

  • 0

#109 Offline Peri

Peri
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Emerging Stone Champion

  • 29-November 06
  • 1,443 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 03 2017 - 09:34 AM

While it's true that, when MNOG was originally released, Ta-Koro was available before Ga-Koro, the re-release of MNOG (which fixed non-canon elements, such as replacing "Tohunga" with "Matoran") had these sections playable in either order. Since the walkthrough released at the same time says Ga-Koro came first, it seems that this is canonically what happened. It also flows better this way, putting some time in-between Takua's first 2 attempts to go in the direction of Ta-Koro.

It had them playable in either order, but the same could be said of Onu-Koro and Po-Koro. The live game in 2001 was also like this, once the chapters had been released. And yet, the menu still places Ta-Koro chronologically before Ga-Koro. There was no intent to change this original order - its just that walkthough was written by a fan who either did not recall/chose to eschew the original order, and obviously the bionicle.com web team was not so pedantic as to remember minute details like that and ask that they be addressed. 

 

Also, there was no 'fixing' of 'non-canon' elements - the only thing that was altered was the word "Tohunga." As for the story flowing better that way, it doesn't really sound to me to be any better than the original intent, where the updates happened in real-time as they were released - so Ta-Koro happens a month after Takua wakes up on the beach, giving plenty of time for Tahu to have come through and gone.


  • 0

#110 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Nov 03 2017 - 09:49 AM

 

While it's true that, when MNOG was originally released, Ta-Koro was available before Ga-Koro, the re-release of MNOG (which fixed non-canon elements, such as replacing "Tohunga" with "Matoran") had these sections playable in either order. Since the walkthrough released at the same time says Ga-Koro came first, it seems that this is canonically what happened. It also flows better this way, putting some time in-between Takua's first 2 attempts to go in the direction of Ta-Koro.

It had them playable in either order, but the same could be said of Onu-Koro and Po-Koro. The live game in 2001 was also like this, once the chapters had been released. And yet, the menu still places Ta-Koro chronologically before Ga-Koro. There was no intent to change this original order - its just that walkthough was written by a fan who either did not recall/chose to eschew the original order, and obviously the bionicle.com web team was not so pedantic as to remember minute details like that and ask that they be addressed. 
 
Also, there was no 'fixing' of 'non-canon' elements - the only thing that was altered was the word "Tohunga." As for the story flowing better that way, it doesn't really sound to me to be any better than the original intent, where the updates happened in real-time as they were released - so Ta-Koro happens a month after Takua wakes up on the beach, giving plenty of time for Tahu to have come through and gone.

 

 

Was the first MNOG walkthrough fan-written? I was assuming it wasn't, from this line on BS01:

The content comes from the official Walkthrough which was downloadable on the MNOLG page in the Kanoka Club. As such, the content itself is not fan-written but is official content. None of the content has been modified by the BIONICLEsector01 editors.


Also, it's not possible that the original release dates are actually how far apart the events occurred, as that would mean the Toa's fights with the Manas and Shadow Toa lasted almost a month (also, canonically only a year passes between the Toa Mata's arrival and Mata Nui's awakening, so MNOG alone can't have taken almost a year). And would that mean Takua spent a month just sitting on the beach?


  • 0

#111 Offline Peri

Peri
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Emerging Stone Champion

  • 29-November 06
  • 1,443 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 03 2017 - 11:12 AM

 

 

Was the first MNOG walkthrough fan-written? I was assuming it wasn't, from this line on BS01:

 

It was, check out this quote from the page Surel-Nuva linked up above: 

 

 

We’ve even got a complete walkthrough with a big and special thanks to Mark Durham of maskofdestiny.com for taking the time to make this and going through the game for us. Thanks!

 

It was fan-written, just officially endorsed. 

 

 

Also, it's not possible that the original release dates are actually how far apart the events occurred, as that would mean the Toa's fights with the Manas and Shadow Toa lasted almost a month (also, canonically only a year passes between the Toa Mata's arrival and Mata Nui's awakening, so MNOG alone can't have taken almost a year). And would that mean Takua spent a month just sitting on the beach?

 

The real-time timeline for mnog is best demonstrated in a line that lost its place once Po-Wahi was unlocked. Before then, a guard blocked the Ga-Koro marina and said

 

 

The marina is closed for repairs until further notice. They say it may take until the flowers are in full bloom.

 

You can still find the text file in the game, text_v.4n_guard_eng.txt. It's a pretty clear allusion to how the update would be arriving in later spring.

 

I hadn't thought about how the last two chapters fit together seamlessly, though. Fair point, but I don't think that that changes how things worked with the other updates. It was the end of the game, and Templar being trusted to even depict the Toa Kaita battle at all was a last-minute decision that would have called for such adjustments to the formula.

 

With regards to the mnog timeline contradicting Greg's retcon in 2008, Greg himself has contradicted that timeline in different Q&As. But in any case my intent is not to get into a debate about what should or should not be considered "canon" - I just want to point out what the original, creative intent of the mnog was.


  • 1

#112 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Nov 03 2017 - 05:25 PM




Was the first MNOG walkthrough fan-written? I was assuming it wasn't, from this line on BS01:

It was, check out this quote from the page Surel-Nuva linked up above:

We’ve even got a complete walkthrough with a big and special thanks to Mark Durham of maskofdestiny.com for taking the time to make this and going through the game for us. Thanks!


It was fan-written, just officially endorsed.

Also, it's not possible that the original release dates are actually how far apart the events occurred, as that would mean the Toa's fights with the Manas and Shadow Toa lasted almost a month (also, canonically only a year passes between the Toa Mata's arrival and Mata Nui's awakening, so MNOG alone can't have taken almost a year). And would that mean Takua spent a month just sitting on the beach?


The real-time timeline for mnog is best demonstrated in a line that lost its place once Po-Wahi was unlocked. Before then, a guard blocked the Ga-Koro marina and said

The marina is closed for repairs until further notice. They say it may take until the flowers are in full bloom.


You can still find the text file in the game, text_v.4n_guard_eng.txt. It's a pretty clear allusion to how the update would be arriving in later spring.

I hadn't thought about how the last two chapters fit together seamlessly, though. Fair point, but I don't think that that changes how things worked with the other updates. It was the end of the game, and Templar being trusted to even depict the Toa Kaita battle at all was a last-minute decision that would have called for such adjustments to the formula.

With regards to the mnog timeline contradicting Greg's retcon in 2008, Greg himself has contradicted that timeline in different Q&As. But in any case my intent is not to get into a debate about what should or should not be considered "canon" - I just want to point out what the original, creative intent of the mnog was.

Gotcha. I completely agree with you on the original intent of MNOG, but I think it was designed that way because of the format it was in (if that makes sense). Having to really wait for things to occur made the game feel more real to the player, but when reading it in the context of the rest of the story, it doesn't make much sense for Takua to be sitting around for a month every now and then.

I'll consider moving the chapters, but I do still feel that the way the walkthrough was released flows better as a story, and makes more sense in the context of everything else going on - even if it isn't quite the same as the way the game was originally experienced.

To be clear: I do really appreciate your input. I'm familiar with your animations (which are great), and so of course know how familiar you must be with MNOG. I apologize if I came off as a bit curt or rude earlier while explaining my opinion.

  • 1

#113 Offline Peri

Peri
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Emerging Stone Champion

  • 29-November 06
  • 1,443 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 03 2017 - 06:49 PM

To be clear: I do really appreciate your input. I'm familiar with your animations (which are great), and so of course know how familiar you must be with MNOG. I apologize if I came off as a bit curt or rude earlier while explaining my opinion.

It's all good! Sorry if I came off as kind of rude, sometimes I take mnog a little too seriously. :P


  • 2

#114 Offline rednas3636

rednas3636
  • Members
  • Scavenger Va

  • 29-March 05
  • 654 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 07 2017 - 10:08 AM

2005 has over 300 pages of story? that was unexpected


  • 0

TheSkeletonMan939, Twister92, SPIRIT and Gatanui are awesome for uploading soundtracks and games and stuff.


#115 Offline simontikaxonn

simontikaxonn
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 01-November 17
  • 12 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 07 2017 - 03:33 PM

i found a complete walkthrough of the quest for the toa videogame, here's the link

https://www.gamefaqs...icle/faqs/16729

I hope it might help during your work ;)

  • 0

#116 Offline Ektris

Ektris
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Proud Matoran Resistance

  • 22-July 03
  • 13,468 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Nov 07 2017 - 04:35 PM

This is pretty incredible.

 

Think I'll have to download them later for when I'm feeling nostalgic.

 

Thanks for doing this.

 

~|ET|~


  • 0

E-T... Phone home.


"He walks among us, but he is not one of us."


#117 Offline ToaTimeLord Requiem

ToaTimeLord Requiem
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Toa Nuva Defeated

  • 20-January 16
  • 3,840 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 07 2017 - 09:11 PM


To be clear: I do really appreciate your input. I'm familiar with your animations (which are great), and so of course know how familiar you must be with MNOG. I apologize if I came off as a bit curt or rude earlier while explaining my opinion.

It's all good! Sorry if I came off as kind of rude, sometimes I take mnog a little too seriously. :P
Don't we all.

  • 0

Hey I got a Flickr because I like making LEGO stuff.

https://www.flickr.c...le/toatimelord/

https://discord.gg/7P96Gf
Join the Gang.


#118 Offline ArchAngelleofJustice

ArchAngelleofJustice
  • Members
  • Turaga

  • 14-December 16
  • 81 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 07 2017 - 10:37 PM

I've found quite a few instances of "Jaller" being misspelled as "Jailer"

You might want to do a search in Book 6 and 7 for those typo's

Pretty minor issue but it happened enough to be worth noting.


  • 1

My Fanfiction

 

Parts of a Whole Series: An Alternate Ending

 

Part 1: Fight for Freedom (On FFN, Ao3, BZP                        Wisps of Memory (On FFN, Ao3, BZP)

Part 2: Army of One (Coming Soon!)


Short Stories: The Great Takara


#119 Offline Toatapio Nuva

Toatapio Nuva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Anger Pacified

  • 10-December 04
  • 6,536 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 09 2017 - 04:55 AM

Took me longer than I thought, but I finally got through all of book 4. Overall, it's very typo-free, and the continuity mostly works nicely, but of course there are some things that should be fixed.

 

Before the more specific fixes, a general idea: Maybe you should label the transitions between the present and the past, like with ”back in the present”, “Vakama’s story continues”, or something like that. In the original books it made sense with the introductions and prologues, but in your version it’s less clear-cut. The parts where we're back in the present could even be called interludes. I don't know, just a thought.

 

Ahkmou’s first scene should happen after the Toa Metru transformation. I understand if you don’t want to move it, since the beginning of the paragraph refers to the Kapura’s scene, but it’s confusing in terms of chronology the way it is now. Maybe edit it slightly and place it between the transformation and the reactions of the Toa to their transformations? Or, possibly, just add “hours before” before the Ahkmou paragraph?

 

The page numbers are according to the individual book this time, not the complete pdf.

Page 7: “class-room” should be “classroom”

Page 8: “threw it in top of a huge pile” – change “in” to “on

Page 12: “The new toa” – capitalize Toa

Page 16: “lab worker was doing his best” – This is Ga-Metru, so it probably should be “her” instead of “his”. “His” is used in the original text, and I think it’s just a mistake. It is possible that the lab worker is actually from another metru though, and there’s nothing contradicting that as such, so it’s possible also not to change it. Whatever you decide.

Page 16: A division of paragraph is needed between “…I hope they are still there,’ said Nokama.” And “She returned to Vhisola’s home…”

Page 20: The letter to Nuhrii should be in italics; also, it’s made its own separate paragraph in the original text, so you might wanna change that too.

Page 23: “And nothing – nothing! – would make him risk the safety of the Archives” – the second “nothing!” should be in italics.

Page 29: “what could  not be found” – there’s an extra space between “could” and “not” that should be removed.

Page 30: “desperately trying to hand on to the Toa tool” – “hand” should be “hang

Page 31: “No Matoran tools had done this” – “tools” should be “tool

Page 38: “watched it bite into another culpture” – “culpture” should be “sculpture

Page 49: “…and knifed through the protodermis[.] She slammed into Matau…” – there should be a full stop there.

Page 49: Very minor thing, but after “In Ga-Metru, go beyond the depths of Toa before”, the quotation mark at the end is the wrong way

Page 52-53: “Power code 1” is written like “Power code I” twice; I think the I should be changed to 1.

Page 69: Same very minor mistake with the quotation mark as on page 49. This occurs after “…that refer to a ‘king root’”

Page 69: I noticed that “akilini” is written without a capital letter here, while in the beginning it’s with a capital letter. In this case the original “kolhii” was written like this too, but I’m not sure about the way it was written in the beginning of the book. Might wanna check it, even if it’s a very trivial issue. If kolhii was written without a capital letter in Mystery of Metru Nui, akilini should probably be written the same.

Page 75: “…seemed to be have no effect” – this is the way it’s in the original text too, so I don’t know if you wanna change it, but it’s grammatically wrong. I guess it should be “seemed to be having no effect” or “seemed to have no effect”.

Page 87: There shouldn’t be a divide between “…adventure than it had been” and “If he wasn’t a Toa…”

Page 103: “Foil one and you may not have not get a chance…” – “Foil” should be “Fail”.

Page 105: “Another shift and now Nokama was facing the yellow Rahkshi” – In this context Nokama and Krahka were discussing the orange Rahkshi, since that’s how Krahka appeared to her, so the color of the Rahkshi is wrong. Might wanna change “yellow” to “orange”.

Page 161: Now this is something I’m not sure with: the word “break-down” uses the hyphen in the original text, but that’s cause the word is divided between different lines. Thus, I’m not sure if the word is supposed to be written “break-down” or “breakdown”.

Page 164: There should be a full stop after “It was still locked tight”.

Page 167: “…beauty of the Herdlands… “ – The quotation mark at the end has a space before it that should be removed.

Page 172: A bit of a continuity error at “They had expected to see the barren plains of Po-Metru, but instead it seemed they were a long way from the outdoors”. This obviously contradicts the comic earlier, where they were herded in by the Vahki and were already underground.

Page 179: “mid-night” should probably be “midnight”. Same issue as with page 161, the word is divided between different lines in the book.

Page 182: “Makuta, sensing his doubt, moved in closer” should have a full stop at the end.

Page 183: “He gestured toward the Great Barrier” should have a full stop at the end.

Page 188: “he had aided them in their fight against Makuta” should have a full stop at the end.

Page 191: “Nokama plunged beneath the murky riven” – “riven” should be “river”, and the sentence needs a full stop at the end.

Page 199: “Vakama shook his head.”No…” – put a space between “head” and the following sentence.

Page 202: “Mavrah said as he got closer” should have a full stop at the end.

Page 205: The title “Whenua’s Tale” should be in bold.

Page 205: “…not even Toa Lhikan! ” – there is an unnecessary space between this sentence and the quotation mark after it.

Page 205: “…with which Whenua was only barely familiar” should have a full stop at the end.

Page 208: “Whenua always suspected that Turaga Dume knew more about what had happened that he let on” – “that” should be “than

Page 211: “just talk some sense to into him” – this is the way it’s in the original text, but it’s clearly an error: removing the “to” would fix it

Page 219: “This is not water” – the word “not” should be in italics

 

I actually like the way you wove together the epilogue of Darkness Below and the beginning of Legends of Metru Nui. Getting rid of the unnecessary introduction makes it flow better. Just one question though: Why did you remove the line “Any problems?” before the entry into the Coliseum? It’s probably a good change and that line certainly isn't needed, I was just wondering about the reason for it.

 

Also, at first I thought the slot in which you put the comics would cause continuity problems, with the whole jumping into chutes thing being put after them, but it actually works pretty well. I did notice you edited the latter part a bit though, with Nidhiki and Krekka coming out from behind buildings rather than the Coliseum. If you wanna keep it unaltered, you could just insert the comics after the Toa Metru jump into the chutes at the Coliseum. That way there would be no need for edits and the continuity would still flow quite nicely. Plus, it would explain how the Toa got to Ga-Metru, since they would have hopped into a chute.

 

There are a few problems with the comics themselves, though. The first is that Onewa mentions them having their Toa tools in the cell, while the book states otherwise. An easy way to solve this would be to remove the instances where this is mentioned from the book text. This would include “Their Toa tools were missing” on page 164 and “At least we don't have to go in there without our tools, thought Onewa. All of their equipment was stacked neatly by the tunnel entrance, including a compact item that the Turaga took for himself. Onewa found that it felt good to have his proto pitons in his hands once more. He vowed that no one would ever take these symbols of his Toa power away again” on page 173. Those are the only sentences that contradict having the tools in the comic.

 

Another comic problem is with Nokama being surprised at Vakama saying that Dume is responsible for Lhikan’s disappearance. They already established this briefly before jumping into the chute at the Coliseum. Not sure if that’s fixable though.

 

In the comic with the Tahtorak, there’s a yellow box telling the reader to read Darkness Below if they’re confused. You wanted to remove those, right?

 

With regards to the ending paragraph of Legends of Metru Nui, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it really wouldn’t make sense anywhere else, and it was intended to be placed where it is now, but on the other hand it just sticks out awkwardly, and is just bad story-telling that spoils the ending of the rest of the flashback story. I don’t think it would help matters at all to move it, I just wanted to vent out my frustration. :P


Edited by Toatapio Nuva, Nov 09 2017 - 04:57 AM.

  • 1

#120 Offline TuragaNuva

TuragaNuva
  • Premier Member
    BioniLUG Member
  • Premier Outstanding BZP Citizens
  • Cross-Wired Geek

  • 19-December 08
  • 633 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Nov 09 2017 - 10:37 AM

First of all, I'm really sorry for not posting any updates for so long! I do intend to address all feedback I've received, it's just that my life continues to get in the way lately.
 

I've found quite a few instances of "Jaller" being misspelled as "Jailer"

You might want to do a search in Book 6 and 7 for those typo's
Pretty minor issue but it happened enough to be worth noting.

Thanks for the heads up; all of those should now be fixed across all versions.

 

Took me longer than I thought, but I finally got through all of book 4. Overall, it's very typo-free, and the continuity mostly works nicely, but of course there are some things that should be fixed.
 
Before the more specific fixes, a general idea: Maybe you should label the transitions between the present and the past, like with ”back in the present”, “Vakama’s story continues”, or something like that. In the original books it made sense with the introductions and prologues, but in your version it’s less clear-cut. The parts where we're back in the present could even be called interludes. I don't know, just a thought.
 
Ahkmou’s first scene should happen after the Toa Metru transformation. I understand if you don’t want to move it, since the beginning of the paragraph refers to the Kapura’s scene, but it’s confusing in terms of chronology the way it is now. Maybe edit it slightly and place it between the transformation and the reactions of the Toa to their transformations? Or, possibly, just add “hours before” before the Ahkmou paragraph?
 
The page numbers are according to the individual book this time, not the complete pdf.
Page 7: “class-room” should be “classroom”
Page 8: “threw it in top of a huge pile” – change “in” to “on
Page 12: “The new toa” – capitalize Toa
Page 16: “lab worker was doing his best” – This is Ga-Metru, so it probably should be “her” instead of “his”. “His” is used in the original text, and I think it’s just a mistake. It is possible that the lab worker is actually from another metru though, and there’s nothing contradicting that as such, so it’s possible also not to change it. Whatever you decide.
Page 16: A division of paragraph is needed between “…I hope they are still there,’ said Nokama.” And “She returned to Vhisola’s home…”
Page 20: The letter to Nuhrii should be in italics; also, it’s made its own separate paragraph in the original text, so you might wanna change that too.
Page 23: “And nothing – nothing! – would make him risk the safety of the Archives” – the second “nothing!” should be in italics.
Page 29: “what could  not be found” – there’s an extra space between “could” and “not” that should be removed.
Page 30: “desperately trying to hand on to the Toa tool” – “hand” should be “hang
Page 31: “No Matoran tools had done this” – “tools” should be “tool
Page 38: “watched it bite into another culpture” – “culpture” should be “sculpture
Page 49: “…and knifed through the protodermis[.] She slammed into Matau…” – there should be a full stop there.
Page 49: Very minor thing, but after “In Ga-Metru, go beyond the depths of Toa before”, the quotation mark at the end is the wrong way
Page 52-53: “Power code 1” is written like “Power code I” twice; I think the I should be changed to 1.
Page 69: Same very minor mistake with the quotation mark as on page 49. This occurs after “…that refer to a ‘king root’”
Page 69: I noticed that “akilini” is written without a capital letter here, while in the beginning it’s with a capital letter. In this case the original “kolhii” was written like this too, but I’m not sure about the way it was written in the beginning of the book. Might wanna check it, even if it’s a very trivial issue. If kolhii was written without a capital letter in Mystery of Metru Nui, akilini should probably be written the same.
Page 75: “…seemed to be have no effect” – this is the way it’s in the original text too, so I don’t know if you wanna change it, but it’s grammatically wrong. I guess it should be “seemed to be having no effect” or “seemed to have no effect”.
Page 87: There shouldn’t be a divide between “…adventure than it had been” and “If he wasn’t a Toa…”
Page 103: “Foil one and you may not have not get a chance…” – “Foil” should be “Fail”.
Page 105: “Another shift and now Nokama was facing the yellow Rahkshi” – In this context Nokama and Krahka were discussing the orange Rahkshi, since that’s how Krahka appeared to her, so the color of the Rahkshi is wrong. Might wanna change “yellow” to “orange”.
Page 161: Now this is something I’m not sure with: the word “break-down” uses the hyphen in the original text, but that’s cause the word is divided between different lines. Thus, I’m not sure if the word is supposed to be written “break-down” or “breakdown”.
Page 164: There should be a full stop after “It was still locked tight”.
Page 167: “…beauty of the Herdlands… “ – The quotation mark at the end has a space before it that should be removed.
Page 172: A bit of a continuity error at “They had expected to see the barren plains of Po-Metru, but instead it seemed they were a long way from the outdoors”. This obviously contradicts the comic earlier, where they were herded in by the Vahki and were already underground.
Page 179: “mid-night” should probably be “midnight”. Same issue as with page 161, the word is divided between different lines in the book.
Page 182: “Makuta, sensing his doubt, moved in closer” should have a full stop at the end.
Page 183: “He gestured toward the Great Barrier” should have a full stop at the end.
Page 188: “he had aided them in their fight against Makuta” should have a full stop at the end.
Page 191: “Nokama plunged beneath the murky riven” – “riven” should be “river”, and the sentence needs a full stop at the end.
Page 199: “Vakama shook his head.”No…” – put a space between “head” and the following sentence.
Page 202: “Mavrah said as he got closer” should have a full stop at the end.
Page 205: The title “Whenua’s Tale” should be in bold.
Page 205: “…not even Toa Lhikan! ” – there is an unnecessary space between this sentence and the quotation mark after it.
Page 205: “…with which Whenua was only barely familiar” should have a full stop at the end.
Page 208: “Whenua always suspected that Turaga Dume knew more about what had happened that he let on” – “that” should be “than
Page 211: “just talk some sense to into him” – this is the way it’s in the original text, but it’s clearly an error: removing the “to” would fix it
Page 219: “This is not water” – the word “not” should be in italics
 
I actually like the way you wove together the epilogue of Darkness Below and the beginning of Legends of Metru Nui. Getting rid of the unnecessary introduction makes it flow better. Just one question though: Why did you remove the line “Any problems?” before the entry into the Coliseum? It’s probably a good change and that line certainly isn't needed, I was just wondering about the reason for it.
 
Also, at first I thought the slot in which you put the comics would cause continuity problems, with the whole jumping into chutes thing being put after them, but it actually works pretty well. I did notice you edited the latter part a bit though, with Nidhiki and Krekka coming out from behind buildings rather than the Coliseum. If you wanna keep it unaltered, you could just insert the comics after the Toa Metru jump into the chutes at the Coliseum. That way there would be no need for edits and the continuity would still flow quite nicely. Plus, it would explain how the Toa got to Ga-Metru, since they would have hopped into a chute.
 
There are a few problems with the comics themselves, though. The first is that Onewa mentions them having their Toa tools in the cell, while the book states otherwise. An easy way to solve this would be to remove the instances where this is mentioned from the book text. This would include “Their Toa tools were missing” on page 164 and “At least we don't have to go in there without our tools, thought Onewa. All of their equipment was stacked neatly by the tunnel entrance, including a compact item that the Turaga took for himself. Onewa found that it felt good to have his proto pitons in his hands once more. He vowed that no one would ever take these symbols of his Toa power away again” on page 173. Those are the only sentences that contradict having the tools in the comic.
 
Another comic problem is with Nokama being surprised at Vakama saying that Dume is responsible for Lhikan’s disappearance. They already established this briefly before jumping into the chute at the Coliseum. Not sure if that’s fixable though.
 
In the comic with the Tahtorak, there’s a yellow box telling the reader to read Darkness Below if they’re confused. You wanted to remove those, right?
 
With regards to the ending paragraph of Legends of Metru Nui, I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it really wouldn’t make sense anywhere else, and it was intended to be placed where it is now, but on the other hand it just sticks out awkwardly, and is just bad story-telling that spoils the ending of the rest of the flashback story. I don’t think it would help matters at all to move it, I just wanted to vent out my frustration. :P

Thanks so much! I'm currently working on fixing all these issues, but wanted to ask your thoughts on a couple things first:

  • For transitioning between the past and present, what do you think of just putting "Now" whenever there's a transition to the present, and "1,000 years ago..." whenever there's a transition to the past? It's not exactly eloquent, but it's how I've established the time setting of pretty much everything else in the compilation.
  • Looking back at it, it seems like the references to the Whenua, Onewa, and Nuju waking up in their cell also doesn't fit what happened in the comics, so that needs to be dealt with as well. Which do you think is the better way of fixing those issues: 1) removing/editing all lines referring to them waking up and not having their tools, or 2) add a few words at the beginning of the book chapter where they wake up in their cell, suggesting that they tried to escape again (e.g. "After another attempt at escaping,")?

 

 

And just so people know: I haven't forgotten that I still have to scan those missing '06 and '09 comic pages, and look into rearranging Book 8.


Edited by TuragaNuva, Nov 09 2017 - 10:39 AM.

  • 0




2 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users