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Pehkui v Kiril


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11 replies to this topic

#1 Offline tamaru34

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Posted Feb 26 2018 - 11:51 PM

The Kiril and Pehkui have different powers (Rebuilding and diminishment, respectively) but they both have the same shape. Is there a canon explanation for this? Are there any physical differences in the actual story?
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#2 Offline jchavoya

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Posted Feb 27 2018 - 12:33 AM

The Kiril and Pehkui have different powers (Rebuilding and diminishment, respectively) but they both have the same shape. Is there a canon explanation for this? Are there any physical differences in the actual story?


I think masks powers were affected more by what they were made of (specific disk combinations) than shape. Shape was probably just there so people (and matoran) wouldn’t be confused, and for matoran cultural reasons. Some wiki sites say that Norik’s mask was made to honor another hero who had a Kiril. So not all Pehkui looked like that (supporting that masks can look like anything). A real world explanation I’ve heard is that they originally intended the design to be a “Toa Dume” but scrapped it in favor of Norik.

Edited by jchavoya, Feb 27 2018 - 12:43 AM.

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#3 Offline TuragaNuva

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Posted Feb 27 2018 - 06:39 AM

Standard Pehkui didn't look like that; Norik's was molded in the shape of a Kiril to honor a hero who wore a Kiril.

Kanohi can actually be molded in any shape (the powers are determined entirely by the disks used to make them), but it's generally considered deceitful to use a mask that isn't the standard shape for its power (Norik made an exception to honor someone).

Edited by TuragaNuva, Feb 27 2018 - 06:39 AM.

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#4 Online Iron_Man5

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Posted Feb 27 2018 - 07:50 AM

Standard Pehkui didn't look like that; Norik's was molded in the shape of a Kiril to honor a hero who wore a Kiril.

Kanohi can actually be molded in any shape (the powers are determined entirely by the disks used to make them), but it's generally considered deceitful to use a mask that isn't the standard shape for its power (Norik made an exception to honor someone).

To add to that, I don't think Norik was the only one to do that with his mask. It's been confirmed that Iruni's mask is the correct shape for his own mask, but I'm fairly certain that most (if not all) of the Toa Hagah's mask was specifically chosen to honor a hero. It just so happens that Norik was honoring a Kiril user, while I suppose he preferred the Pehkui. Now whether the rest of the Toa's masks were the "correct" shape, that's not mine to say. :P


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#5 Offline Pohaturon

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Posted Feb 27 2018 - 05:20 PM

Masks stopped making any sense after the umpteenth retcon, so not only doesn't shape determine power, they themselves have no power but "amplify the power within the user" or some nonsense which should make the powerless/noble/great distinctions pointless, but doesn't, somehow. 

 

So yeah, Norik's mask was shaped like a different mask - same thing with Krakua's Hau shaped Suletu. 

 

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#6 Offline Onvermel

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Posted Mar 09 2018 - 11:04 PM

Masks stopped making any sense after the umpteenth retcon, so not only doesn't shape determine power, they themselves have no power but "amplify the power within the user" or some nonsense which should make the powerless/noble/great distinctions pointless, but doesn't, somehow. 

 

So yeah, Norik's mask was shaped like a different mask - same thing with Krakua's Hau shaped Suletu. 

 

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If I am correct it was Krakua and his mask that started this whole issue. All this makes me think is if a Ta matoran wanted to be a jerk he would make all his great masks look the same.

 

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#7 Offline Zarkan: Master of Storms

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Posted Mar 11 2018 - 01:14 PM

The real reason, outside of canon: because the Toa Norik set was meant to be a Toa Dume set, just as Toa Iruini was meant to be Toa Nihdiki.

 

Masks stopped making any sense after the umpteenth retcon, so not only doesn't shape determine power, they themselves have no power but "amplify the power within the user" or some nonsense which should make the powerless/noble/great distinctions pointless, but doesn't, somehow.

 

I must be behind. When was this ever stated? And how does that make any sense when we know mask powers are determined by what combinations of Kanoka are used to make them?


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#8 Offline Pohaturon

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Posted Mar 11 2018 - 03:23 PM

The real reason, outside of canon: because the Toa Norik set was meant to be a Toa Dume set, just as Toa Iruini was meant to be Toa Nihdiki.

 

Masks stopped making any sense after the umpteenth retcon, so not only doesn't shape determine power, they themselves have no power but "amplify the power within the user" or some nonsense which should make the powerless/noble/great distinctions pointless, but doesn't, somehow.

 

I must be behind. When was this ever stated? And how does that make any sense when we know mask powers are determined by what combinations of Kanoka are used to make them?

 

Someone here on BZP discussed this some time ago and had a Greg discussion post as a source, I do not recall the exact wording but the colossal kerfuffle around what/how/why masks do/work always rubbed me up the wrong way and that particular retcon is one of my least favorite. It's like the mask is a "lens" to concentrate the inner power or whatever of the user, and some beings possess the potential or this innate ability to activate masks (Toa), some to a smaller extent (Turaga) and some don't (Matoran). 

 

The masks themselves having power, and users requiring a certain amount of mental aptitude and talent in their use made more sense IMO.

 

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#9 Online Iron_Man5

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Posted Mar 11 2018 - 06:17 PM

The real reason, outside of canon: because the Toa Norik set was meant to be a Toa Dume set, just as Toa Iruini was meant to be Toa Nihdiki.

 

Masks stopped making any sense after the umpteenth retcon, so not only doesn't shape determine power, they themselves have no power but "amplify the power within the user" or some nonsense which should make the powerless/noble/great distinctions pointless, but doesn't, somehow.

 

I must be behind. When was this ever stated? And how does that make any sense when we know mask powers are determined by what combinations of Kanoka are used to make them?

That actually sounds more like what the G2 masks do, amplify the Toa's powers, not provide new ones (with the exception of the uniter masks that let the Toa unite with the creatures). I actually haven't heard about that particular retcon either.


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#10 Offline Onvermel

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 12:43 PM

 

The real reason, outside of canon: because the Toa Norik set was meant to be a Toa Dume set, just as Toa Iruini was meant to be Toa Nihdiki.

 

Masks stopped making any sense after the umpteenth retcon, so not only doesn't shape determine power, they themselves have no power but "amplify the power within the user" or some nonsense which should make the powerless/noble/great distinctions pointless, but doesn't, somehow.

 

I must be behind. When was this ever stated? And how does that make any sense when we know mask powers are determined by what combinations of Kanoka are used to make them?

 

Someone here on BZP discussed this some time ago and had a Greg discussion post as a source, I do not recall the exact wording but the colossal kerfuffle around what/how/why masks do/work always rubbed me up the wrong way and that particular retcon is one of my least favorite. It's like the mask is a "lens" to concentrate the inner power or whatever of the user, and some beings possess the potential or this innate ability to activate masks (Toa), some to a smaller extent (Turaga) and some don't (Matoran). 

 

The masks themselves having power, and users requiring a certain amount of mental aptitude and talent in their use made more sense IMO.

 

:kakama:

 

I hadn't ever heard of this retcon and desided to go to BIONICLEsector01 for reference and from what I could discover is that masks still work the same way as it take mental will power. I don't think that ever changed. I couldn't find anything that said different.

 

Now you also said it's like a "lens" to concentrate their inner power and such. I think this is just making me think how toa loose a lot of strength with out their masks as well as it amplifies their elemental power when they wear there mask as compared to when they aren't wearing them. If this is what you meant then great we are on the same page but I'm not finding anything that has been retconed from what has been established from the early years of bionicle. I think the only thing that has changed is the fact that shape doesn't matter when it comes to power. Only the power level of disk and which type of disk.

 

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"I believe in certainties. The strength of my limbs, the power of my mask, the sharp edges of my blades — that is what I build my plans around. Trickery, deception, complex strategies, they are for the weak! If you want power, and another has it, you get it not by outwitting him — you get it by stepping over his corpse." Makuta Icarax

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#11 Offline Cheesy Mac n Cheese

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Posted Mar 15 2018 - 07:48 PM

I have never heard that either. And I thought Norik was the first known case of a mask's shape not fitting its power, rather than Krakua.


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#12 Offline onionfarb

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Posted Apr 14 2018 - 12:13 PM

my headcanon is that Krakua's mask is shaped like a Hau because he's a member of the Order of Mata Nui and the Hau is a symbol of Mata Nui
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