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How to be a BIONICLE Journalist.


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40 replies to this topic

#1 Offline tent163phantoka

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:19 PM

Welcome to my Comic series. This is an attempt at an investigative journalism series. This will have techniques for BIONICLE and BZP-related investigative journalism, followed by examples of each technique that ca be combined in all sorts of ways in a sort of CYOA.Comics:IntroIt will all make sense in time.
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#2 Offline -Absorba-

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:23 PM

Ugh, again!?I'm sorry, but what happened to I Ship It? Can't you make a series that actually has more than one comic?
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#3 Offline Phoenix Zero

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:26 PM

Ugh, again!?I'm sorry, but what happened to I Ship It? Can't you make a series that actually has more than one comic?

Exactly. If you're going to make a series, stick to it.

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#4 Offline Tenuk

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:26 PM

I think you are overstating the fact that its 'oh so confusing' because honestly it isn't and I have no idea why you would want to play that up anyway.
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#5 Offline Terra Nuva

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:32 PM

I believe intro will be the last comic.And it already does make sense. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Edited by Terra Nuva, Aug 11 2012 - 02:32 PM.

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#6 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:38 PM

There is a "first post" for a reason, dude. You explain the series in your first post, not your first comic. All I see is writing in panels. If you wanted to write, make a comedy.Posted Image
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#7 Offline Illustrious Var

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:40 PM

....Okay seriously. A comic is more then just panels with text, you've just written a story here saved to an image format.Why don't you try writing comedies or epics or something? Clearly you don't really grasp the idea of what a comic actually is.
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#8 Offline Terra Nuva

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:41 PM

There is a "first post" for a reason, dude. You explain the series in your first post, not your first comic. All I see is writing in panels. If you wanted to write, make a comedy.Posted Image

I believe that was done because he has no comics at the moment. I don't see why you had to do this now instead of putting an actual comic up.

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#9 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:44 PM

There is a "first post" for a reason, dude. You explain the series in your first post, not your first comic. All I see is writing in panels. If you wanted to write, make a comedy.Posted Image

I believe that was done because he has no comics at the moment. I don't see why you had to do this now instead of putting an actual comic up.

It's funny, cause he appears to never have any comics.Giving it a quick read-through, you say you don't need to have an amazing story to make it as a comic maker, like the "bigshots." First of all, who would these bigshots be? Second of all, of course not. But this isn't a story. This isn't anything.Posted Image

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#10 Offline Tenuk

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 02:54 PM

There is a "first post" for a reason, dude. You explain the series in your first post, not your first comic. All I see is writing in panels. If you wanted to write, make a comedy.Posted Image

I believe that was done because he has no comics at the moment. I don't see why you had to do this now instead of putting an actual comic up.

It's funny, cause he appears to never have any comics.Giving it a quick read-through, you say you don't need to have an amazing story to make it as a comic maker, like the "bigshots." First of all, who would these bigshots be? Second of all, of course not. But this isn't a story. This isn't anything.Posted Image

Plus most of the more popular comic makers focus mostly on comedy not an epic tale of adventure, they just maintain some vague overreaching plot to keep the series together so the whole that your series will dispel the notion that an intense plot is required to reach success is silly.

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#11 Offline Argaraffe

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 03:03 PM

Decided to come back when I saw this topic. I think the reason why he keeps quitting is because he keeps getting pounded with the same criticism by hordes of people at the same time, without very many people trying to help other that by saying, "This stinks, it's only text!" That said, I will not repeat what countless people have already said.First of all, the text itself needs improvement. If you download a font such as Laffayette Comic Pro or Anime Ace then your comic will look much more professional. Also, I'd recommend looking at a tutorial for glowing text or speech bubbles with Gimp. There are tons out there. Finally, you need a kit. Xanis kit, 6 shade chimoru, or Chimoru Kal / R are some of the best on bzpower. I look forward to seeing your next comic. Don't give up, keep trying!
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#12 Offline Soran

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 03:06 PM

Guys calm down. It doesn't matter if he has done this sort of thing a dozen times. If he wants to put just text, let him put just text. I agree that he could've atleast made it see more like a comic by actually adding things to it and putting the explanation in the first post, but really you don't need to just dislike everything he has created. Not everyone actually pays attention to every single little detail or knows who the big shots are (yes I realize he has been doing this for years) but still its just for an explanation. If he makes another (or to some people an actual) comic, then lets critique him on that. Anyway onto the comic. Although I agree with others that the explanation could've been added to the first post instead and have another comic with more action ready, I still feel it to have potential. I actually like a lot of your ideas, they seem interesting. This one the way the comic started reminds me of one of those stereotype australian wildlife people, explaining whats going on before any action happens. It might help to include the actual characters, although it could just be in a first person point of view where the main character isn't visible, but the action or what he sees is, which I think would be really creative. I look forward to more comics for this series if you create some more.~Soran
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#13 Offline Nathan Evo

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 03:41 PM

Okay, really?This isn't even a comic. If anything, it's less of a comic than I Ship It, and that was pretty terrible. At least I Ship It obtained sprites, which is more than I can say here.I'd be a bit more partial to this if it was your first attempt, as shown by I Ship It, Spherustracks, and Ways to Make Teachers Cringe, you've clearly done this over and over and the act is getting old. I know you think of it as "insanity" and yourself as "insane", but honestly the rest of us would take an actual comic over insanity every day.My advice for you? Next time you make an "intro comic", ACTUALLY MAKE IT A COMIC. Though at this point I'm fairly sure you'll completely ignore that.Also, yeah, you don't see "the bigshots" handling multiple story arcs, but I don't see them slapping a bunch of text on a bunch of panels just advertising a series which at this rate I'm certain will never exist and calling it a comic.
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#14 Offline tent163phantoka

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 06:19 PM

relax, more comics are coming. Like Arga said, I keep quitting because i keep getting the same kind of criticism. I am working on the first tip, which will be followed shortly by 3 different examples. this will take time, but due to the lack of a revival rule, I can take as long as I need. I have a kit chosen.
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#15 Offline -Absorba-

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 08:20 PM

Oh for the love of tofu..... Let's get all bullet point about this, shall we?1. You're quitting something just because you're being criticized? What sense does that make? You put something on the forum, people leave comments on it, positive AND negative. The event something is unanimously decided to be good is absurd. I was working on a 5-month long project called Unison, and despite work that is ABUNDANTLY more in quality than this, I still was criticized by some, and I still continue. Sorry, but, just take it! 2. No, here's the thing about accepting tips. What we gave you are basic tips in order to tell a story fluently. But these are not things that require longer than 3 weeks in order to register! Just take the advice, and it should take only an hour! Bam, now you can tell at least a formulation of a story! For the love of gods, this is quote literally Comics 101! 3. You have a kit chosen? Erm... Thanks, we really needed to know. Aside from handdrawn comics, EVERY. I repeat, EVERY comic series here uses a kit. You spelling such an obvious requirement for a series here, which I'd like to remind you, 90% of is SPRITE comics, it really gives the vibe you don't know what is significant here! Do you do no research?!4. Panel 6 is both astonishingly puzzling, but frankly, it's insulting. You just clearly said that this series was about Bionicle journalism. Weird concept, but acceptable. What explanation is needed after that? It feels really condescending with that, that we're dipwads that can't tell a basic subject that's literally in front of our faces, like "Don't know what journalism is? No? Then let me explain later, you I-assume-to-be-kindergarteners!"5. Panel 7: No, we don't. That is indeed a valid point. HOWEVER, comics are a visual medium used for storytelling. These have nonestablished stories, and you give up on them after the first comic for reasons stated in point 1. Have some focus, or at least some bit of your brains for criticism acceptance!6. Panels 8 and 9 are by the most insulting lines to me. Gavla's comics. Generic Quest. Randamonium, Alternate Reality Inc., Looking at the Sky. Do you seriously don't do research!? Stop making assumptions based on things you haven't bothered to look at! Bottom line, tent163phantoka, I honestly can't believe you haven't caught on. I was going to be lenient, but is seems you aren't even bothering to take in criticism because apparently, you think your comics will always end up perfect. That's not how life works, tent163phantoka. If this is how you want to spend your time here, hen fine by me, just dot expect us to care and waste our time with rants like this.Faretheewell.

Edited by -Absorba-, Aug 11 2012 - 08:27 PM.

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#16 Offline Nathan Evo

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 08:33 PM

Like Arga said, I keep quitting because i keep getting the same kind of criticism.

You know what would really help?If you actually took that criticism rather than starting over and expecting us to say something different. Criticism exists to help you improve, not to simply point out your flaws.

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#17 Offline Terra Nuva

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 08:34 PM

Like Arga said, I keep quitting because i keep getting the same kind of criticism.

You know what would really help?If you actually took that criticism rather than starting over and expecting us to say something different. Criticism exists to help you improve, not to simply point out your flaws.

Gerlicky beat me to saying this but yes. We wouldn't be saying these things if you didn't have a history of doing the same thing over and over again. Sounds like an excuse.

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#18 Offline Tenuk

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 09:28 PM

3. You have a kit chosen? Erm... Thanks, we really needed to know. Aside from handdrawn comics, EVERY. I repeat, EVERY comic series here uses a kit. You spelling such an obvious requirement for a series here, which I'd like to remind you, 90% of is SPRITE comics, it really gives the vibe you don't know what is significant here! Do you do no research?!

While I agree with you on all your points you shamefully neglected the noble art of photo comics.One thing you could explain more thoroughly Mr. Tent is what followed by examples of each technique "that ca be combined in all sorts of ways in a sort of CYOA" means, how are you incorporating the CYOA aspect?

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#19 Offline -Windrider-

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Posted Aug 11 2012 - 09:32 PM

I just want to remind everyone that all criticism should be kept constructive, because some of the wording in this topic is leaning towards the other end of the spectrum.
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#20 Offline -Absorba-

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 12:00 PM

Sorry, Windrider, it's just that... well.... most of us honestly don't have any really nice things to say. Sorry.
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#21 Offline Ddude

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 12:31 PM

Absorba already made a perfectly good post about this, but I feel I'm in a unique position to rebutt something.

i keep getting the same kind of criticism

Yeaaaah, I'm gonna stop you right there. Broski, I used XanRaMoru when I made a comic series. Guess what the first twenty posts were? "Dude why do you use XRM that kit is so hideous use another one"Now, to be fair, most posts were a bit more civil than that. But still, I repeatedly got criticism over something I didn't see the problem with. (Granted my art skills were (and are) atrocious, so that wasn't doing me any favors) But guess what? I kept going. People were telling me my actual artwork was an issue, so I worked on that. Sure, it's discouraging to be criticized about something repeatedly, but if seperate people are telling you the same thing, it probably means they're on to something.Also, as a general rule, multiple story arcs is a very easy way to end up with a complicated story. See: Bionicle 2005-Onwards

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#22 Online Reznas

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 01:07 PM

Sorry, Windrider, it's just that... well.... most of us honestly don't have any really nice things to say. Sorry.

If you don't have anything nice to say, than don't say anything. I mean, honestly guys, whether or not he's making "Dark709" worthy comics does not give you a right to continually, continually being emphasized, slam his comics in a rude fashion. I think we all can agree that these comics need work. But every single one of our comics needs work. Even professional comics could use some work in certain areas. No one is perfect. Why not leave it at that and actually give him some constructive criticism that will help him in the future? If telling him that his comics are horrible is constructive, then what's not constructive? Just give him a break. I think all of us would give up multiple times if we had over 20 people hate on our comics. You have no right to tell him to stop making comics if that's something he loves doing. If you're going to go and post, please do so with some respect and try to actually help Tent on his comics.Now, I will give you some advice. I think a lot of people have already told you that the intro was not exactly professional. But that's not to say that it can't be done. I think the downfall of the introduction is the font and text positioning. Finding a font style that fits you can be a tedious yet rewarding step in comic making. Using the default Times New Roman or Comic Sans MS isn't going to cut it when it comes to a nice, professional looking comic. If you're looking to make a more, how should I say this, "noobish" comic style like you would see in Bionicle Action Comics (I can't spell bad, sorry. :P), then a more “unprofessional” font will suffice. For now, I would just go on different font sites and look for a font suitable for you. It only takes 5-10 minutes max unless you really take your time looking for fonts. Just make sure to find a comic-styled font.The only other downfall of the comic would be the positioning of the text. I can tell that the text is docked to the left rather than centered. This can easily be fixed (I assume you're using GIMP, correct?) by going to the text options and setting the "Justify" option to "Centered". Also, in some panels, the text fills up little to no space. This can easily be fixed by enlarging the font size, and, if need be, adding a bit of spacing here and there. Besides those two things, there isn't much to say based on the comic you've posted so far. Better grammar would be nice, but isn't necessary. It's fairly readable without a few commas here and there.Overall, you didn't do that bad of a job. Just take the advice you receive, whether it's constructive or not, and you will see a huge difference in the feedback you get. Don't take what some of these members say to heart, everybody has to start somewhere, and believe me, I didn't get very good feedback on my comics for a while. It was the criticism I got that brought me to where I am now. I'll keep an eye on these. I can't wait to see what you do when you start adding sprites. Keep up the good work! You have a lot of potential! :)-Rez

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#23 Offline Sniper Joe

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 01:13 PM

The only problem is that there's nothing to be constructive about. If I have the choice between telling somebody how bad their work is and lying to them, I will do the former.
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#24 Offline Soran

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 01:18 PM

The only problem is that there's nothing to be constructive about. If I have the choice between telling somebody how bad their work is and lying to them, I will do the former.

I agree with telling them the truth, but still it gets to be annoying. Its basically people telling him 'You spelling stinks, you haven't used any form of drawings, your sprites stink, your background and text stinks, etc". Thats fine and all but you can't just tell someone that their comic stinks and expect them to get better. You have to actually help them, suggest things to do, etc. I know that some comic makers might be able to easily improve without help, but there are some that might need it. Anyway, I'm looking forward to how the next comic will turn out. You have a lot of interesting ideas, so I can't wait to check out what you come up with for comic 2.~Soran

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#25 Online Reznas

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 01:23 PM

The only problem is that there's nothing to be constructive about. If I have the choice between telling somebody how bad their work is and lying to them, I will do the former.

That's where you're wrong. There is plenty to be constructive about. If there seriously wasn't anything to critique, than I wouldn't have come up with three large paragraphs full of constructive criticism. I told the truth, but what you guys are doing is telling the truth in an extremely rude way. You can easily tell the truth while being kind and wanting to help someone. I agree with Soran, it's good to tell the truth, but it's another thing to sit here a dog on Tent's comic. I can just as easily go to your comics and point out every mistake you make.-Rez

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#26 Offline -DJ-

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 02:18 PM

Look, the point is that, in this forum, you should criticize a comic constructively. However, I wouldn't even call this a 'comic'. And it's not like no one HAS been giving the guy tips on how to make better comics - in tent163phantoka's last 'comic endeavor', we'll say, I believe it was Kahinuva who said it best:

You don't get to literally churn out words and put them into a border and then go on a seemingly self-righteous rant about how you don't think you need to apologize about being bad in graphic design because honestly I think you kind of do.Not in the "sorry I don't know how to do all these fancy shiny special effects" kind of way; that stuff comes with time and experience and (honestly speaking) mostly Google. No, I'm talking about the "sorry I was too lazy to actually make panels outside of text layers" kind of way. Graphic design, especially in these sprite comics, is more than knowing how to apply filters on Photoshop. Its knowing about layout and color balance and text placement and contrasting elements and actually having something else in your panel outside of text.There is no point asking people to "criticize the content, not the quality". From a graphical and storytelling perspective, there was no content. There was something telling me that there might be content in the near future, but there was not actual content. And potential being the key? Let me clue you in on a little something. Quality trumps potential every single time. Why? Because all potential means is that you might become great. Quality means that you already are. This is probably coming across as pretty harsh and half of me wants to apologize and the other half wants to say you deserve it. It's one thing to bash a beginner who's trying their best but doesn't know any better. It's another thing to reprimand someone for doing something just so extremely lazy I can't even begin to describe it when you know they actually can. You've been around here for at least two years, maybe longer. You should know this already, and in fact, judging from your other comics, you actually do know this. Your work wasn't perfect, but you at least knew what to do. You're not a beginner. You're someone who knows better and if you put your mind to it can also do better.I know I'm supposed to give some sort of constructive criticism here but honestly all I can say is actually make a comic. Don't just pull something out of your rear and tell us what to expect while simultaneously telling people what they should and shouldn't criticize. Make something you'd actually be more or less proud of.

And there you go. The most constructive piece of criticism a 'comic' like this can really receive.With that, I bid you lot adieu, and hope that the next comic tent makes is an actual comic.

Edited by DJ N00bslayer, Aug 12 2012 - 02:19 PM.

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#27 Offline -Absorba-

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 03:05 PM

I'm aware that we don't have to criticize something, but when it's this eye-catching, insulting, and time-wasting, I'm sorry, we have to identify this. This is not the first time tent163phantoka has done this, and so far, he hasn't learned much, if anything. He keeps repeating the same mistakes again and again, blaming US for criticizing him, constantly putting out practically the same thing over and over again, and we HAVE to identify with this guy. It's frankly degrading to people that actually work hard on our comics, and I feel personally astounded that this is even possible.What do you have to say, tent163phantoka?
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#28 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 04:46 PM

The only problem is that there's nothing to be constructive about. If I have the choice between telling somebody how bad their work is and lying to them, I will do the former.

I agree with telling them the truth, but still it gets to be annoying. Its basically people telling him 'You spelling stinks, you haven't used any form of drawings, your sprites stink, your background and text stinks, etc". Thats fine and all but you can't just tell someone that their comic stinks and expect them to get better. You have to actually help them, suggest things to do, etc. I know that some comic makers might be able to easily improve without help, but there are some that might need it.Anyway, I'm looking forward to how the next comic will turn out. You have a lot of interesting ideas, so I can't wait to check out what you come up with for comic 2.~Soran

This is under the assumption we are flat out saying his comic stinks. To be quite honest, all of the posts here have been constructive to a point. Sure, some have been harsh, but that is life. You just have to deal with it. Not to mention, it is very hard to say it in a nice way. What I see here is a text document in image format. That isn't a comic, that is a picture epic.We've given him all the constructive criticism he needs. What he needs to do is act on it.Posted Image

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Go give a read to an amazing epic, Seven Lives... Two Faces, written by Kini Hawkeye!


#29 Offline -Absorba-

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 05:36 PM

The only problem is that there's nothing to be constructive about. If I have the choice between telling somebody how bad their work is and lying to them, I will do the former.

I agree with telling them the truth, but still it gets to be annoying. Its basically people telling him 'You spelling stinks, you haven't used any form of drawings, your sprites stink, your background and text stinks, etc". Thats fine and all but you can't just tell someone that their comic stinks and expect them to get better. You have to actually help them, suggest things to do, etc. I know that some comic makers might be able to easily improve without help, but there are some that might need it.Anyway, I'm looking forward to how the next comic will turn out. You have a lot of interesting ideas, so I can't wait to check out what you come up with for comic 2.~Soran

This is under the assumption we are flat out saying his comic stinks. To be quite honest, all of the posts here have been constructive to a point. Sure, some have been harsh, but that is life. You just have to deal with it. Not to mention, it is very hard to say it in a nice way. What I see here is a text document in image format. That isn't a comic, that is a picture epic.We've given him all the constructive criticism he needs. What he needs to do is act on it.Posted Image

But here's the thing. He's had 3+ series with the same quality, same criticisms and no advancements. Nothing new. Nothing learned.

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#30 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 05:40 PM

The only problem is that there's nothing to be constructive about. If I have the choice between telling somebody how bad their work is and lying to them, I will do the former.

I agree with telling them the truth, but still it gets to be annoying. Its basically people telling him 'You spelling stinks, you haven't used any form of drawings, your sprites stink, your background and text stinks, etc". Thats fine and all but you can't just tell someone that their comic stinks and expect them to get better. You have to actually help them, suggest things to do, etc. I know that some comic makers might be able to easily improve without help, but there are some that might need it.Anyway, I'm looking forward to how the next comic will turn out. You have a lot of interesting ideas, so I can't wait to check out what you come up with for comic 2.~Soran

This is under the assumption we are flat out saying his comic stinks. To be quite honest, all of the posts here have been constructive to a point. Sure, some have been harsh, but that is life. You just have to deal with it. Not to mention, it is very hard to say it in a nice way. What I see here is a text document in image format. That isn't a comic, that is a picture epic.We've given him all the constructive criticism he needs. What he needs to do is act on it.Posted Image

But here's the thing. He's had 3+ series with the same quality, same criticisms and no advancements. Nothing new. Nothing learned.

I've been on this site nearly 7 years now, so trust me, I didn't miss those 3+ comics.And so, what I said still applies. Tent, you need to take everything we've said here into consideration and put it into use.Posted Image

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#31 Offline tent163phantoka

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 06:44 PM

Here is proof I'm working on the next set of comics(a preview of one of them):Posted Image
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#32 Offline -Absorba-

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 06:46 PM

Erm... By that logic, my avatar is a preview of a Mega Man/Bionicle crossover.But yeah, don't mess this up.But what is your response to our suggestions?

Edited by -Absorba-, Aug 12 2012 - 06:47 PM.

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#33 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 06:57 PM

That actually looks like progress to me. I like the text. Might want to make the expression the same color as the character, but otherwise lookin' forward to it. :)Posted Image
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#34 Offline Kahi

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Posted Aug 12 2012 - 07:18 PM

Sorry, Windrider, it's just that... well.... most of us honestly don't have any really nice things to say. Sorry.

If you don't have anything nice to say, than don't say anything.

I'll be honest. Whenever I see this, I see "Look, if you don't think I'm doing this perfectly, then don't say anything at all." My preferred type saying is "If you can't tell me how to fix it, then don't complain if I don't." Obviously, slamming people without grounds often leads to flaming, but if you can both point out a problem and offer some advice as to how you would fix it, then you have to me a perfectly valid reason to state your critique. Now whether he will or even should take that advice can be another matter, since that advice might be horrible in and of itself, but in the very least I think that's a valid reason to state it.I said most of what I wanted to say in the other topic. I'll come back when you actually have content. Don't have text intros. Get some better backgrounds. Lose the Comic Sans.

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#35 Online Reznas

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Posted Aug 13 2012 - 01:39 AM

Sorry, Windrider, it's just that... well.... most of us honestly don't have any really nice things to say. Sorry.

If you don't have anything nice to say, than don't say anything.

I'll be honest. Whenever I see this, I see "Look, if you don't think I'm doing this perfectly, then don't say anything at all." My preferred type saying is "If you can't tell me how to fix it, then don't complain if I don't." Obviously, slamming people without grounds often leads to flaming, but if you can both point out a problem and offer some advice as to how you would fix it, then you have to me a perfectly valid reason to state your critique. Now whether he will or even should take that advice can be another matter, since that advice might be horrible in and of itself, but in the very least I think that's a valid reason to state it.I said most of what I wanted to say in the other topic. I'll come back when you actually have content. Don't have text intros. Get some better backgrounds. Lose the Comic Sans.

I understand what you mean, but how it was stated is what I'm speaking of. They could have easily criticized his work in a nicer, more constructive way. Whether or not you think it's a comic gives no one the right to pound his comics with outragous comments. Maybe he would take someone's advice if they actually took the time to try and help him. I don't see anyone who has their heart set on helping him get better besides Soran, and Arg.

I'm aware that we don't have to criticize something, but when it's this eye-catching, insulting, and time-wasting, I'm sorry, we have to identify this. This is not the first time tent163phantoka has done this, and so far, he hasn't learned much, if anything. He keeps repeating the same mistakes again and again, blaming US for criticizing him, constantly putting out practically the same thing over and over again, and we HAVE to identify with this guy. It's frankly degrading to people that actually work hard on our comics, and I feel personally astounded that this is even possible.What do you have to say, tent163phantoka?

Why exactly do you find this insulting? He's not insulting you, he's just trying to make comics. It's something he loves doing. And when people treat him like this, it doesn't give him any motivation to keep making comics, to actually take the advice he's getting. And you say you have to identify this guy, you have no right to. He is doing absolutely nothing wrong, and you know why he blames you for criticizing him? Because all you have are rude comments pounding his comics away. Maybe if you were nice and helpful he would actually listen. You should try that some time.Anyways, nice little preview you have. It looks like you have a nice grasp of outlined text, and the facial expression seems to be in order. Good job! :)-Rez

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#36 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Aug 13 2012 - 01:55 AM

Sorry, Windrider, it's just that... well.... most of us honestly don't have any really nice things to say. Sorry.

If you don't have anything nice to say, than don't say anything.

I'll be honest. Whenever I see this, I see "Look, if you don't think I'm doing this perfectly, then don't say anything at all." My preferred type saying is "If you can't tell me how to fix it, then don't complain if I don't." Obviously, slamming people without grounds often leads to flaming, but if you can both point out a problem and offer some advice as to how you would fix it, then you have to me a perfectly valid reason to state your critique. Now whether he will or even should take that advice can be another matter, since that advice might be horrible in and of itself, but in the very least I think that's a valid reason to state it.I said most of what I wanted to say in the other topic. I'll come back when you actually have content. Don't have text intros. Get some better backgrounds. Lose the Comic Sans.

I understand what you mean, but how it was stated is what I'm speaking of. They could have easily criticized his work in a nicer, more constructive way. Whether or not you think it's a comic gives no one the right to pound his comics with outragous comments. Maybe he would take someone's advice if they actually took the time to try and help him. I don't see anyone who has their heart set on helping him get better besides Soran, and Arg.

Please tell me you are joking. PLEASE. I sure hope so, cause that wasn't funny.I'm fairly sure everyone in this topic who has posted with constructive criticism wanted to help. Otherwise, why bother posting it? Don't write off every post that doesn't have "100/10 KUTGW!" in it as hate, and a post that just wants to be mean.If anything, I'm sure people want to help him because we're tired of seeing him fail so much, and making these "comics" that make us seem like we're children.So please, don't try and say that I haven't been trying to help him improve. He has the know-how. He can make decent comics. He just needs to actually do it.And to Tent - If you don't mind me asking, but in that preview you posted, what font was that? Or was it Comic sans? Just curious.Posted Image

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#37 Online Reznas

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Posted Aug 13 2012 - 02:05 AM

Sorry, Windrider, it's just that... well.... most of us honestly don't have any really nice things to say. Sorry.

If you don't have anything nice to say, than don't say anything.

I'll be honest. Whenever I see this, I see "Look, if you don't think I'm doing this perfectly, then don't say anything at all." My preferred type saying is "If you can't tell me how to fix it, then don't complain if I don't." Obviously, slamming people without grounds often leads to flaming, but if you can both point out a problem and offer some advice as to how you would fix it, then you have to me a perfectly valid reason to state your critique. Now whether he will or even should take that advice can be another matter, since that advice might be horrible in and of itself, but in the very least I think that's a valid reason to state it.I said most of what I wanted to say in the other topic. I'll come back when you actually have content. Don't have text intros. Get some better backgrounds. Lose the Comic Sans.

I understand what you mean, but how it was stated is what I'm speaking of. They could have easily criticized his work in a nicer, more constructive way. Whether or not you think it's a comic gives no one the right to pound his comics with outragous comments. Maybe he would take someone's advice if they actually took the time to try and help him. I don't see anyone who has their heart set on helping him get better besides Soran, and Arg.

Please tell me you are joking. PLEASE. I sure hope so, cause that wasn't funny.I'm fairly sure everyone in this topic who has posted with constructive criticism wanted to help. Otherwise, why bother posting it? Don't write off every post that doesn't have "100/10 KUTGW!" in it as hate, and a post that just wants to be mean.If anything, I'm sure people want to help him because we're tired of seeing him fail so much, and making these "comics" that make us seem like we're children.So please, don't try and say that I haven't been trying to help him improve. He has the know-how. He can make decent comics. He just needs to actually do it.And to Tent - If you don't mind me asking, but in that preview you posted, what font was that? Or was it Comic sans? Just curious.Posted Image

My only response is this, if you are really trying to help him, do so with respect and kindness. We all started out somewhere, and I know for a fact that we didn't all get amazing feedback for some of our first comic series. So why do you have to give Tent criticism in a hurtful way? I never told you to reply with, "100/10 KUTGW!", all I'm asking you to do is to have some compassion and empathy and actually try to help him out in a nice manner. If you think that posts like this are going to help him, than you're wrong. Let me ask you something, if you were in the position that Tent is in, would you continue making comics a lot? Please be honest, because I don't think any one of you want to be criticized in this fashion.-Rez

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#38 Offline Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

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Posted Aug 13 2012 - 02:10 AM

Sorry, Windrider, it's just that... well.... most of us honestly don't have any really nice things to say. Sorry.

If you don't have anything nice to say, than don't say anything.

I'll be honest. Whenever I see this, I see "Look, if you don't think I'm doing this perfectly, then don't say anything at all." My preferred type saying is "If you can't tell me how to fix it, then don't complain if I don't." Obviously, slamming people without grounds often leads to flaming, but if you can both point out a problem and offer some advice as to how you would fix it, then you have to me a perfectly valid reason to state your critique. Now whether he will or even should take that advice can be another matter, since that advice might be horrible in and of itself, but in the very least I think that's a valid reason to state it.I said most of what I wanted to say in the other topic. I'll come back when you actually have content. Don't have text intros. Get some better backgrounds. Lose the Comic Sans.

I understand what you mean, but how it was stated is what I'm speaking of. They could have easily criticized his work in a nicer, more constructive way. Whether or not you think it's a comic gives no one the right to pound his comics with outragous comments. Maybe he would take someone's advice if they actually took the time to try and help him. I don't see anyone who has their heart set on helping him get better besides Soran, and Arg.

Please tell me you are joking. PLEASE. I sure hope so, cause that wasn't funny.I'm fairly sure everyone in this topic who has posted with constructive criticism wanted to help. Otherwise, why bother posting it? Don't write off every post that doesn't have "100/10 KUTGW!" in it as hate, and a post that just wants to be mean.If anything, I'm sure people want to help him because we're tired of seeing him fail so much, and making these "comics" that make us seem like we're children.So please, don't try and say that I haven't been trying to help him improve. He has the know-how. He can make decent comics. He just needs to actually do it.And to Tent - If you don't mind me asking, but in that preview you posted, what font was that? Or was it Comic sans? Just curious.Posted Image

My only response is this, if you are really trying to help him, do so with respect and kindness. We all started out somewhere, and I know for a fact that we didn't all get amazing feedback for some of our first comic series. So why do you have to give Tent criticism in a hurtful way? I never told you to reply with, "100/10 KUTGW!", all I'm asking you to do is to have some compassion and empathy and actually try to help him out in a nice manner. If you think that posts like this are going to help him, than you're wrong. Let me ask you something, if you were in the position that Tent is in, would you continue making comics a lot? Please be honest, because I don't think any one of you want to be criticized in this fashion.-Rez

Heck yes I would continue making comics! I don't make comics because people kiss my feet and tell me they're amazing. I make comics because I can make people laugh, and because it is a fun hobby that allows me to work with various art styles, writing, and comedy. If someone pointed out something I did bad in a comic I made in similar fashion to how people are doing so to Tent, then I'll do even better. I invite you to go to both my current comic series' and do so yourself.Sure, people can be more gentle, but we're pretty fed up. If we were all gonna be nice and kind at this point, then we'd get a lot angrier later. Life isn't gonna be all nice and happy, so I don't see a problem here. Also, Tent hasn't shown any anger toward it, and has posted a preview. So this argument is pointless.Let's continue this to PM if you want. I don't want to head too off topic.Posted Image

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#39 Offline Funcle K.

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Posted Aug 13 2012 - 11:26 AM

Sure, people can be more gentle, but we're pretty fed up. If we were all gonna be nice and kind at this point, then we'd get a lot angrier later. Life isn't gonna be all nice and happy, so I don't see a problem here.

Just because life can be harsh and blunt does not mean you should always jump at the chance to do so as well. Shouldn't we nurture any chance we can of a willing participant in the field of arts? If he wants to why shun him? You don't have to mollycoddle anyone, but you can also encourage them while critiquing. Even if you're giving advice and saying what to do and when to do it, it will be much more well received when you're doing it out of an act of kindness- not rudeness or disdain. Does it matter if this is the first time or the seventh time? I see someone who's testing the waters, trying to find something interesting to stick to, and who is willing to do unorthodox things. Maybe "Tent" has a story he wants to tell primarily with words but still arranged in a visual manner? Maybe he has started many times because he's still feeling out for a good story that will entertain himself long enough to be able to entertain others.They way you talk sounds like it is his moral obligation to write comics for the site. That is so far from the truth that it is ridiculous. He has the freedom to do so, and he has the opportunity- does not mean he has to. This is not an elite club of amazing comic artists, despite anyone's belief, it's a group of amateurs doing fan comics for fun, so don't delude yourself into thinking that there are requirements and expectations. Anyone can do any type of comic here, and if maybe you want to shoot someone down who you think isn't as good as you are, you might discourage someone from having the same kind of fun you are. On what basis can you be fed up? Is there some unseen threshold that measures just how much artistic freedom is allowed? Good grief, think before spewing.I'd also like to point out that most introduction comics on this forum are glorified sentences anyway, maybe with a sprite or two talking, but hardly straying far from the same format Tent is using. :/I'm going to say a few things to some standout posts here because I would hate to see this same behavior echoed elsewhere.

Also, Tent hasn't shown any anger toward it, and has posted a preview. So this argument is pointless.

Reading over what has been said to him in this topic alone, do you think he's going to willingly show anything that could be considered weakness to you? Would you use that same argument against a typical schoolyard bully? "Well the victims don't stand up for themselves so it's alright." A lot of this topic is very close to cyber bullying, and just because it's done with pseudonyms and avatars doesn't make it any less personal sometimes on the receiving end.

Bottom line, tent163phantoka, I honestly can't believe you haven't caught on. I was going to be lenient, but is seems you aren't even bothering to take in criticism because apparently, you think your comics will always end up perfect. That's not how life works, tent163phantoka. If this is how you want to spend your time here, hen fine by me, just dot expect us to care and waste our time with rants like this.

I just wanted to quote this so you'd read it again. What makes anyone here the judge, jury, and executioner? There is no standard on which comics must be made. Did any of you begin making these with decent quality right from the start? Did any of you have more than one try at making them? He can spend his time however he wants, it's not yours to manage.

The only problem is that there's nothing to be constructive about. If I have the choice between telling somebody how bad their work is and lying to them, I will do the former.

What if you have the choice between telling them the truth bluntly, lying to them, or telling them the truth kindly?

Look, the point is that, in this forum, you should criticize a comic constructively. However, I wouldn't even call this a 'comic'.

That is complete opinion. If I may not find sprite comics "real" comics I am not going to have the audacity to profess that opinion as truth. As fun as it is to try to define art, this is a visual story defined in panels: it's quite traditional and very obviously, still just as much a comic as your sprites in boxes.

I'm aware that we don't have to criticize something, but when it's this eye-catching, insulting, and time-wasting, I'm sorry, we have to identify this. This is not the first time tent163phantoka has done this, and so far, he hasn't learned much, if anything. He keeps repeating the same mistakes again and again, blaming US for criticizing him, constantly putting out practically the same thing over and over again, and we HAVE to identify with this guy. It's frankly degrading to people that actually work hard on our comics, and I feel personally astounded that this is even possible.What do you have to say, tent163phantoka?

Please ask yourself where you have the right to say any of this? The only insults in this topic are the snippy replies that for some reason took this far more personally than reasonably. You are in no permission to reprimand someone for perceived grievances that were imagined. Absolutely nothing he has done has harmed or wronged you in any way. You do not HAVE to do anything. If you find this somehow degrading than I hope it's because you realized the stupidity of these accusations. There are going to be different kinds of artists no matter where you are. The existence of one form of art is no measure of another. If you feel like Tent's comic's style/voice is an affront to sprite comics everywhere then you need to wake up from your dream world. I really don't think that this was meant to be a social commentary on fan-forum kit-based comics.So, with all that said, this is for Tent:I get the feeling that the comic will be based on text based techniques and suggestions, and the "normal" type of sprite comic will be used as examples. While I suppose it could be more streamlined, (maybe having the text in a big box before the comic, but still in the same image) it's an interesting idea. It did catch my eye right away. You normally don't have big expectations for an intro page, so there are only a few things I think that will help in the long run, and a lot of them have been said before. Your font is not generally a good font to use, people complain about it a lot. In order to satiate their demanding appetites, try looking for something unique. You might not want to stick with traditional comic fonts (which are only used to emulate old lettering done by hand anyway and are usually just as 'distasteful" as comic sans.) and try something that pertains to journalism a bit more. You could find a font theme that looks like it was done on a typewriter, for instance. If you find something unique (and easily readable) then your comic will be more of a standout at an immediate glance.I'd also proofread your words before writing them in the panels- you have a few fragments, a missing letter in a contraction, and several sentences that were written kind of incompletely like they are missing a word or two. I'd recommend running all the type through a program that looks for grammatical and spelling errors- it will catch a lot, but ultimately it comes down to proof-reading right before finalization (or even prior.)I don't mind the left-aligned text, but you should play around and try to find something possibly more refined if you do continue with heavy text portions. It's always nice to have the same space around each block of text, and some of the panels don't have similar spacing. Also watch out for overlap, it can look somewhat sloppy but if you keep it consistent it will be that much more visually pleasing... as well as making the panels the same size or making them obviously different. If you don't want to keep them the same size, you could somewhat exaggerate the proportions, like have a skinner box contain one of the shorter sentences, a longer box with two or three, or even switch it around for an interesting effect- as long as it looks purposeful and design-oriented it should work.I would invest in a logo, some kind of title that is always in a different font or slightly different design. It can generate associations in viewers so they remember the comic, or serve as iconography that will identify your comic among the vast sea of others. I'd recommend something eye-catching yet leaning towards the simplistic. As long as it isn't messy or radically different than the rest of the comic's visual style anything really goes. If you stick with just normal text, then that can work too, though it can be lost in the total design or lose some visual weight- meaning people can glance over it and not give it a second thought. That's usually not too much of a risk for BZP comics since they had to enter the topic anyway so most members should know what series they are looking at.I do look forward to where you'll take this. It sounds interesting and I would love for you to continue.I think it's important for everyone to exercise and flex their creative wings, and you end up finding out that there's always someone who has a good story to tell.

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#40 Offline Shadow Kurahk

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Posted Aug 13 2012 - 12:50 PM

How you say it is as important as what you say. If you've offered the most of your constructive criticism and simply want to tell someone they suck some more, at least have the decency to be polite about it.If someone isn't catching on, that's their fault--why do you all want to be so involved? You could easily ignore this comic if you really wanted.Anyways, text-only panels aren't atrocities. If you guys don't like comics/graphic novels that use a lot of text, I recommend you go read something like Watchmen or V for Vendetta.AND in any case, what's not visual about this comic? If anything, what I see is someone with their eyes closed, imagining this text in the confines of their mind. It would have worked better, perhaps, with a quick scene at the end. But that's up to the author.The preview looks good--the only thing I'd say is that those faces seem a bit outdated now. Try something a little newer. ;)-SK
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