Nato G

Okay, I'm getting very bored of all of this information coming to light, then subsequently being revealed to be leaked, and thus not allowed to be discussed. We need to pool our resources and bribe/beg/bully Lego into making an official announcement (although personally, I think the fact that they haven't denied the rumours is the same as confirming them). I needs knowledge! I can't wait for 2015, I must know now!!!

I don't think many fans would have been happy with a dodgy downer ending like that. I suspect the fanbase would have been even angrier than they were when it just ended. At least Stars was an actual conclusion, with the final defeat of Teridax and all. Agreed. Besides, I know more than a few people were outraged that the Nuva screwed the universe over by simply fulfilling their destiny. An absolutely brilliant plot twist stunning in its audacity, but not a good place to end the entire story IMO. I agree. It was Bionicle's best plot twist, and a good place to end that part of the saga. But not the place to finish the entire storyline.

As far as everyone I know is concerned, Bionicle is dead and buried. My old friends have moved on with their lives, and my family thinks I'm crazy for still building MOC's and rereading the serials and joining this community. Then, lo and behold, Bionicle 2015 rumours, and suddenly my life seems to be improving.

I live in Australia and New Zealand prices are usually pretty close to ours, but even so, these prices do seem a bit much. Agori/Matoran sets were usually around $10-$12 (except the stars, which were overpriced between $15-$20). Toa/Glatorian ranged from $15-$25 over the years, as the sets grew bigger, and titans were usually somewhere between $30 to $45, depending on the size. Combiner sets were even more expensive, usually in the hundreds. Wait... is this list official, or is it a leak, which we are then not meant to be discussing? EDIT: Okay, it's gone, I guess it's leaked.

I don't think many fans would have been happy with a dodgy downer ending like that. I suspect the fanbase would have been even angrier than they were when it just ended. At least Stars was an actual conclusion, with the final defeat of Teridax and all.

We already know why Velika wanted Mata Nui to survive. It's obvious, really. If Mata Nui and Makuta didn't complete their dual destiny and repair the planet, then there wouldn't have been any Spherus Magna for Velika to rule in the first place.

Desperate times call for desperate measures? The Great Spirit was dying, after all. That said, I will agree that it did seem a little over the top.

If there was truly nothing great about the Toa Mata, I would think Bionicle would have come to a screeching halt by year one, don't you? Also, equating opinionated people to Nazis comes off as a little disrespectful to victims of the Holocaust. I would take the original Toa Mata over the jokes we got in 2008 that tried to bear their names any day; they had far more personality to them. Okay, using the word nazis might have been a little over the top, I'll admit, but I'm getting really tired of people hating on Bionicle's later years just because they apparently couldn't move on from the nostalgic early years. No offence, but it's been ten years since those years of nostalgia ended. Time to move on, methinks.

YES! I can finally use the word idiot! But here's what's annoying me: the word that means the opposite of heaven is still filtered. My reaction: "Why the is blocked by the filter?" Blocking it for using it in the way I just used it is understandable, but I only discovered this when I used it in a genuine situation, when comparing the way the island of Mata Nui was portrayed to be a paradise, but Voya Nui was depicted as a . Only then did I discover that my choice word was blocked. Can someone explain why this word is blocked when, like "jerk" it has a non-insulting, non-offensive meaning?

Has anyone thought to ask Greg who the agents are? If not, perhaps we should select the current top contenders and ask him if any of them are reporting to Velika. Since the present top three are Vastus, Atakus and Metus, we should start with them. I'll go do it now, actually.

I didn't much like them, to be honest. My first sets were Toa Nuva Lewa and Tahu, but I did get one of the Toa Mata sets (Lewa) later on, and I still liked the Nuva better. I I always felt the designs got better over the years, rather than worse, which is what a lot of people seem to think. I like my tall, broad, fully pose-able 2008 Toa Nuva far better than their tiny, puny original Nuva sets. Even the gears that made their arms move and stuff really annoyed me, and I always went out of my way to rebuild my sets without them. I preferred being able to pose my figures the way I wanted to, instead of the gears slipping back into their original positions. Later year's sets were better because they were far bigger and more pose-able. So in answer to the original question: what's so great about the Toa Mata, I say (and I know a lot of nostalgia nazis are probably going to want to kill me for saying this, but) nothing.

Getting "dark" isn't "growing up", especially not how Bionicle did it. Voya Nui was the darkest, grittiest location Bionicle ever had, and you know what? It felt like a farce. Locations and Rahi were described by how many people they'd killed, characters constantly made sure to trash the brighter mood of earlier years, everything was extreme and deadly, blah blah blah. It was terrible. That's not the Bionicle I want to come back, and that's probably not the Bionicle that's coming back. Do you know why? Sorry, I had to come back to this after rereading it. You're complaining that locations and rahi were described by how many people they've killed, but last time I checked (and I live in Australia, so I check often), that's the way we gauge how dangerous a thing or place is in real life as well. You can't fault Bionicle for being realistic and logical for once. Except it wasn't just to gauge how dangerous it was. It was describing ANYTHING on the island. Was Mata Nui described similarly? Was the Vuata Maca described as the darkest, most terrifying tree that a Matoran once exploded upon attempting to climb? Was the Mangai Volcano described as a death pit that could roast any Matoran that fell into it? Was the Hoi described as a terrible beast of torment that claimed the lives of thousands of Matoran each day? Because that's what I mean. Everything on Voya Nui was described like that. The entire island was like a bad parody of a dangerous location. But that's justified, since Mata Nui was meant to be an island paradise, whereas Voya Nui was a fiery ###### (EDIT: okay, seriously, why is the opposite of heaven filtered?) by comparison. Voya Nui was a dangerous location because it was the hiding place of the legendary Mask of Life. The volcano was violently active, the landscape had been decimated by a hurricane, and, to top it all off, the Piraka had gone through and conquered the place. I think the whole thing was meant to establish the idea that the stakes of the story had been raised, and that they were now fighting to save Mata Nui's life. Voya Nui wasn't a "bad parody" of a dangerous location, it was a dangerous location.

Getting "dark" isn't "growing up", especially not how Bionicle did it. Voya Nui was the darkest, grittiest location Bionicle ever had, and you know what? It felt like a farce. Locations and Rahi were described by how many people they'd killed, characters constantly made sure to trash the brighter mood of earlier years, everything was extreme and deadly, blah blah blah. It was terrible. That's not the Bionicle I want to come back, and that's probably not the Bionicle that's coming back. Do you know why? Sorry, I had to come back to this after rereading it. You're complaining that locations and rahi were described by how many people they've killed, but last time I checked (and I live in Australia, so I check often), that's the way we gauge how dangerous a thing or place is in real life as well. You can't fault Bionicle for being realistic and logical for once.

Yes, but those were actually collectible; by 2006, it had devolved to balls in metallic colors, and in 2007, it was squids that only came in 2 colors. Collectibility suffered greatly through the years. The problem wasn't the amount; without a large variety of things to collect, what's the point? If there were only three superhero action figures to collect, completing a collection would be appallingly simple. The point of collectibility is to collect them all. There was far more thrill in collecting the wide variety of masks in 2001-03 than in collecting two colors of useless squid in 2007. And yes, calling them useless is taking into account their "function" as "ammunition". I don't see how focusing on one important location for a few years made the early years the worst years? Mata Nui had a lot to explore in those three years. The set designs may not have had a lot of diversity, but what they did was set up a standard. Of course later designs were an improvement on the Mata; if they weren't, it would mean the set designers failed to innovate. And for many people, it wasn't the sets that made the early years (though the Bohrok are still some of the best canister sets ever made); it was the story, which I think was better then, especially because in 2006 the story tried turning "dark" and ended up hideous as a result. I never liked the collectibles at all, to be honest. I saw no point in collecting an excessive amount of ammunition, or masks, or Kraata. Most of them were of absolutely no use to me, since I already had enough to fit all of my sets, and I never seemed to lose the ammunition I already had, so why would I need more? I saw all of the collectibles as cheap gimmicks, and I think Lego recognised this as well, since there were a lot less of them in later years.

I think we need to stop thinking of these guys as spies and think of them more as... agents. Some of them must have been taking a more active role than simply keeping tabs on the villages. Also, I think it' fairly safe to assume that Velika has at least one of these agents in each village, plus a few other key locations. Going on the assumption that there was at least one agent in each village, each with a specific task, here are my candidates. Metus: I've given plenty of reasons for suspecting him in my previous posts in this topic, so I won't bother going through it all over again. From his actions in the 2009 story, I'm assuming his task was to raise an army in preparation for Velika's arrival. Raanu: I didn't suspect him at first, but there are some very convincing arguments. He has worked with he GB's in the past, so it would make sense. I imagine his task for Velika would have been to earn the villager's trust and work himself into a position of power and authority, so that Velika's transition to power of the Agori would run smoothly when the time came. Vastus: He's got a lot of guilt for his actions in the war, and Velika has likely promised him redemption. Makes sense to me. My guess is that his job was primarily to keep tabs on his home village, since it is mentioned on his BS01 page that he rarely leaves. This makes sense, since Tesara is one of the few fertile areas on all of Bara Magna, plus it has a steady water supply. Keeping one of his agents firmly in control of this region would be in Velika's best interests, I would think. Malum: I think Malum may have been working for Velika as well. I don't know what h might have been doing for Velika before he went rogue, but I can guess why he went to go live with the Vorox. Picture this: Velika is talking to Kabrua one day, and Kabrua casually asks how the Bara Magna Vorox are faring. So Velika sends one of his agents to go find out. That might explain how Malum learnt to communicate with the Vorox as well; Velika taught him. Surel: He chose to live in the mountains, unarmed, crippled and alone with only a pack of wolves for company. I suspect this is because Velika told him to. We weren't given enough information on Surel's character for me to guess what Velika might have promised him, but my guess is that Velika has him and his wolves watching over the Element Lords, the Valley of the Maze and other nearby locations, keeping him posted on any new developments. Atakus: For those of you who think he's just a glorified gate guard, you should really read his BS01 page. After the shattering, he led the Rock Agori for a time. Yes, he guarded the gates of Roxtus at one point as well, which means he got to see everyone who ever went in and out of the city. He also acted as a liaison between Tuma and the other villages, and he spent a lot of time with Stronius. He was very well connected, which makes him the perfect spy. He also worked closely with Metus when he started his bid for power. Building an army to conquer all of Bara Magna is a difficult job for just one person, so Velika had two of his agents working on it. At least, that's how it seems to me. The only point where I'm undecided is Tajun. Tarix is too noble and honourable to be a spy, I think. Him being a Velika agent goes against everything that was established about his character in the past, and we know Greg doesn't like doing that. Kiina's obsession with other worlds struck me as too genuine to be a cover, and I again doubt that Greg would make one of Mata Nui's closest friends on Bara Magna be working for a GB. Plus she's expressed a lot of hate for the Great Beings, which I doubt she would show if she worked for one. I even doubt that it's Berix, since he was also close to Mata Nui, and most of his character development was about proving he wasn't a thief. I don't think Greg would go through so much effort to establish Berix to be a decent guy only to reveal that he was actually a snitch the whole time. So it's either a more minor character, or perhaps there was no spy in Tajun? These are just my thoughts. There could well be more or less agents in different places than the ones I've mentioned. Has anyone asked Greg? Do you think he'll put all of our worries to rest and tell us who the agents were?

Okay, I'm going to be really bold here and admit that I actually liked the Av-Matoran builds. Now, before you all for exiling me to Karzahni for blasphemy, might I point out that this is an opinion poll. That means I'm allowed to give my opinion, which is what I have just done. Now here's why I liked them. They were simple compared to Matoran from previous years, and well-priced for their size. They were bigger as well, which I liked. Here's the big one for me: they had their own individual masks! Think about it. Did any matoran sets from prior years come with their own masks? Not that I know of. They reused old masks from previous years. What I liked about the Av-Matoran (and the later Agori sets that used the same build) was that they were small, cheap sets that had unique masks. Some of them had really useful parts as well, so they were excellent sources of parts for MOCing.

What do you mean when "Bionicle stopped feeling like Bionicle?" Every year Bionicle brought something different. A lot of people seem to hate anything that didn't resembled the nostalgia of Bionicle's early years on the island of Mata Nui, losing interest, like you say, 2004 onward. I honestly thought Bionicle's early years were its worst. They spent two or three years at a time reusing the same locations, and all of the heroes and villains were clones of the others in the same wave. 2005 was kinda meh. I didn't get into it too much. 2006 was better. New building system, new chapter in the story (that wasn't a prequel), new heroes and a new island. And then 2007 with the diverse designs of the Barraki and Mahri. That was when I became really interested. "Also, the projectile collectibles didn't help that cause either". Didn't Bionicle's early years have the most ridiculous amount of collectibles? Masks and Kraata and Krana and Kanoka disks? I don't remember seeing nearly as many collectibles in later years.

Plenty of different uses? I find that hard to believe, considering the pieces were designed solely to build humanoids. Zesk was the least humanoid build achieved with the system, and it involved adding a Vahki limb to the back, and still suffered from the woes of some of the terrible issues of the pre-bent limbs. A majority of them were practically interchangeable with one another; that's how little variety the design allowed. Bionicle wasn't darker for having two impermanent deaths and a perceived death that wasn't really (and was a villain anyway; in children's media, we're often taught not to care about the fate of the villain). Do you know why it seemed darker? Because it actually had a story. That's why characters died when none had ever died in a previous Lego theme. Nobody dies in Lego City because there's no story to Lego City. Nobody dies in Alpha Team because it had a sparse story conveyed through little flash games, and the story was still intentionally simple, with no massive story engine or anything. It only seemed darker because there was no similar theme to measure it against; at the time, Bionicle was peerless in its story structure. Getting "dark" isn't "growing up", especially not how Bionicle did it. Voya Nui was the darkest, grittiest location Bionicle ever had, and you know what? It felt like a farce. Locations and Rahi were described by how many people they'd killed, characters constantly made sure to trash the brighter mood of earlier years, everything was extreme and deadly, blah blah blah. It was terrible. That's not the Bionicle I want to come back, and that's probably not the Bionicle that's coming back. Do you know why? Because Bionicle wasn't at its best when it got dark and gritty, and the sales prove it. If the new Bionicle is to succeed, it needs to make sure it doesn't repeat the mistakes that brought down the original, and that includes becoming "dark". Okay, I'm not going to perpetuate this argument, since we both clearly have different opinions. I liked the story when it was at its darkest and grittiest, you clearly didn't. That's okay. We're all entitled to our own opinions. Let's just wait and see what next year has in store for us, shall we? Okay, so we have Omega Tahu and Delta Onua. Are there official names for the other Toa?

The Av-Matoran builds weren't that bad, in my opinion. Durable, and with plenty of different uses. And Bionicle was always a little darker than other Lego themes. There was a surprisingly large number of deaths in the first movie for a Lego theme, if you stop and think about it. Bionicle was always a little more mature than other themes, and I liked that about it. As I matured more, the story grew darker, and I really liked that, because it felt like the story was growing with me.

There's a hilarious topic I've been reading on and off on LMB where some guy keeps debunking the Bionicle 2015 rumours, claiming that we've never had leaks this early on in the year, which somehow proves that they're fake. Now, I'm not sure about you guys, but I didn't think there was an official time of the year to expect leaks. They come out when they get leaked. The end. If someone feels like putting their job on the line to bring hope to the Bionicle community, then they'll do it. And that Omega Tahu makes mine look puny. Very nicely done.

Whoever they are, they've been in contact with Velika since he left the planet. I doubt any spy could maintain GB tech for 100,000 years, so I think it's fairly safe to assume that Velika is using telepathy to stay in contact (especially since Velika himself didn't have immediate access to GB tech during the times he's appeared inthe story prior to his true nature being revealed). I might add that Velika's body was badly rebuilt by Karzahni, so if he were using implants, they likely would have been accidentally destroyed or removed. So I do think Velika is using telepathy. If my theory is correct, then having access to GB (or alien) tech doesn't immediately make any Bara Magna character one of the spies. I doubt Stronius was a spy. He isn't very... tactful. He's violent, brutal, and enjoy's torturing people. Not very good qualities for a spy. And the reason he didn't kill Metus was because a certain someone turned Metus into a snake, and he then slithered away. I imagine that Stronius thinks he's dead. Not the Hero Agori. I don't even know why it's on the list. It's a nameless, genderless character who was the main character in a game and never appeared in any other canon material. As far as I'm concerned, the Hero Agori isn't even a proper character, and should be struck from the list. Also, to rebut a point made about Atakus. go to BS01 and read it for yourselves. His blades were made using tech alien to Bara Magna, but the weapons themselves did not come from an alien world. The design is exactly the same as the rest of the Skrall blades (which are not alien in nature). My guess is that the GB's were fooling around with some alien tech and decided to replicate some of the weapons they'd already designed. The only thing that makes Atakus' blades different to the others are that they glow. I doubt Atakus is so vain as to take glowing swords as a bribe. If Velika was bribing people with weapons, he'd give them fancy force blasters, like he did to Kabrua. That said, Atakus was well connected, so I can see why Veika might choose him as a spy. He was a prominent figure in the Rock Agori tribe, he was a liaison between the Skrall and the other tribes, and he worked with Metus, who I strongly suspect to be a spy as well. So, to conclude, my list of suspects: Metus, (maybe Atakus), Vastus and Surel.

Well I'll assume that because the links haven't been taken down yet, leaked images of sets that have been out for months aren't going to draw the ire of the admin.

I agree. Atakus could be one of the spies, but the blades aren't any form of proof. The Bs01 page says that the blades were built using technology that was alien to Bara Magna (which is why they glow), but I'd like to point out that the design is exactly the same as every other Skrall blade. Note that the normal Skrall tribal design blades were not built by, or based on, alien tech. They were made by the GBs, as far as I know. My guess is that the GBs were fooling around with some alien tech they somehow got their hands on and copied the design of a weapon type they'd already created. The blades that Atakus eventually found are the result of that experiment. That's it. Mystery solved. We've blown this whole thing out of proportion when there's likely a very simple solution like the one I've just suggested. That's what I think, at least. Anyone agree?

False. It was actually Crotesius who told Mata Nui about the expedition, as mentioned in Journey's End. Okay. Vastus' BS01 page says it was him. Just checked Mata Nui's Bs01 page. Here we go: [Mata Nui] talked to Vastus, who told him of Tarduk's tales of the north. While looking for Tarduk, Mata Nui encountered Crotesius, who told him of his failed journey to the Valley of the Maze with Tarduk. Mata Nui sought the Jungle Agori out, though he had already left for the north once more. So it was both of them, but Vastus mentioned it first. My original point still holds potential.

Maths for the win! We need to get this info to Lego immediately!