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Necro

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Blog Comments posted by Necro

    Necro

    Posted

    I want to say that no matter how civilized, polite and upright anyone thinks it is to show respect unconditionally, I will still deck the person who tells me my friend(s) deserve to live a life of abuse and poverty and deserve little more than being killed, that they're a menace, or they're broken, or messed up in some imaginary manner, or that they deserved being hurt, attacked, or deserve to be attacked, harassed or thrown through a traumatic experience.

     

    Their position means absolutely nothing to me, granted they'd rather harm people I care about and are debating from a position of making it -legal- to harm people I care about. That's not a valid position. It's not a respectable one. It's a sick, disgusting, twisted one and whoever treats it like an actual, valid position and respects it is doing more harm by perpetuating the idea that thinking this way is "okay" and "valid" and is worthy for intellectual discussion and debate (albeit, less of the "intellectual" part).

     

    If you respect every single person with such a venomous position: they won't listen to anything you say (re: vast vast vast majority of these debates I've had) and any points you make and evidence you bring forth will be ignored and they'll feel more validated by having that opinion because someone listened to it.

     

    So, if someone presents stuff like that to me I'll simply tell them that it's a disgusting, rotten opinion not worthy of debate because the content is so cruel and pathetic that it's not worth entertaining as a basic idea in the first place. Because there is no debate when the idea is to treat people like sub-humans and I will not respect the position, nor the person if they really think it's a valid idea.

     

    I want to be clear with this before I respond that I completely agree that someone who has this sort of idea is asinine beyond belief and has no right to be discussing what they're attempting to. I'm not endorsing that sort of thinking, and I don't want to be misconstrued as doing so.

     

    Now with that said, I don't think this is a valid argument for a few reasons;

     

    A. It's a far-gone extreme. People like that do unfortunately exist, and while they have an unfortunate tendency to be the loudest of the bunch, they're also, outside of certain areas in the world, extreme minorities. No, someone of this mindset does not deserve respect. No, treating them with respect won't do any good. But there's no way to make any progress with them in the first place because their head is on in such a messed-up manner that it's a loaded example.

     

    B. For many of the same reasons above, antagonizing them won't be any more effective. Being respectful will make them feel validated, and being disrespectful will make them feel victimized. With someone this out-there, being nice, being honest, being blunt, being cautious, nothing will have any impact on someone this crazy. If they're already to this point, it would take an extreme occurrence in their life in order to get them to change their ways. Words, whether respectful or not, are not capable of that. It's not just that being respectful will do nothing positive, it's that nothing will do anything positive.

     

    C. Someone this extreme was about as far from the situation I had in mind when writing the entry as possible. The situation I was trying to address is one I see on the internet way too often, where person A and person B are both incredibly passionate about subject C, and both hold reasonable positions. However person A takes offense at even the suggestion that they could be wrong, and proceeds to attack person B with a fury unknown to mankind for what was not intended as an aggressive remark in any way. The result is that person A is upset and seething, person B is either also seething and shoots right back on the defensive, or feels victimized and ignores anything further person A has to say because someone that upset can't be worth listening to from their perspective.

     

    This kind of situation is different from the one you mentioned in three ways: 1. Person A in this scenario does not hold a reasonable position, but an extreme and unhealthy one. 2. There is no inherent civility in this discussion, which as far as I know, is an element of a proper debate. Person A not only holds an extreme position, they hold it firmly and would refuse to budge. Relatedly, 3. person A has no intention of considering the arguments of person B in the first place. Again, a willingness to be challenged and have one's arguments and beliefs open to debate and interpretation, as far as I understand it, is an essential part of a proper debate. Person A never goes in with any intent of a mutual dialog at all. All of this adds up to create a drastically different scenario than the one I first spoke with in-mind, and as a result I don't feel is applicable.

    I don't mean any disrespect, but there's no way to create a response to that argument, both because there's no defense of a person with that sort of view, and because the situation given is completely different than the one intended. Plus someone spewing that much bile is clearly far beyond reason.

     

    I also feel like it's worth mentioning that nowhere in the entry, except maybe the "no battle was ever won..." analogy, do I say that this applies 100% of the time with 100% of people. Other people have said that in the comments, but while I have no problems with them expressing their opinion - a contrast of different opinions in a respectful fashion is one of my favorite things to read - I never said it myself.

    Necro

    Posted

     

    Everyone deserves respect. Period.

    No. Not true. When someone supports a perspective that dehumanizes, oppresses, or outright opposes the very existence of a group, they don't deserve even the barest modicum of respect.

     

     

    It depends what the subject is. If people are completely ignorant and hold intolerant views which don't meet standard levels of human decency, then don't show them any respect whatsoever. Showing respect to such attitudes just allows them to grow and spread. Respect only those opinions which show respect in themselves.

     

    Buuut if the topic is why you like one TV show over another or something then yeah, show respect. :D

    I agree but also disagree with these. On the one hand, that kind of opinion doesn't even deserve an intelligent response in the first place, let alone a respectful one.

     

    However at the same time, I feel like if you come from a perspective counter to that person's, then demonize them, disrespect, and insult them because of it, then all it will do is reinforce their negative feelings about people that believe X or happen to have Y trait or whatever else. It may be hateful and insane to you, me, and any rational person, but to them, it's just the reality of the situation and telling it like it is.

     

    They don't view someone getting angry with them over it as "Gee, maybe I should stop hating _____ people because people said I was wrong", they'll view it as you being unreasonable and attacking them for doing nothing wrong. It's the same way that when you were a six year old and got scolded for sneaking into the pantry to get a snack, it wasn't your fault for being up past bedtime to get sweets, it was your mom's fault for being unreasonable about bedtime and not giving you a big enough dessert. You didn't feel bad that you broke the rules, you felt bad that you were getting scolded.

     

    Now again, the person with these views is indeed in the wrong, but you have to look at it from their perspective. They genuinely believe what they're saying. Nobody likes being talked down to, especially when, as far as they can tell, they're not doing anything out of line, so disrespecting them is just going to make them less willing to believe what you're telling them, and probably make them more ardent with what they're saying that's wrong. As messed-up and out-there as they may be, it just makes them more messed-up and out-there.

     

    As maddening as it is to deal with someone who holds messed-up, bigoted views, killing with kindness is the most effective way, at least in my experience, of changing someone's opinion or belief. For example, this video of Frank Meeink, a former neo-nazi. What changed him wasn't being punished for his actions or his beliefs by being sent to prison, it was the black people he met in prison that treated him like normal in spite of his entire doctrine being about dehumanizing them. It wasn't the people who refused to employ or deal with him, it was the Jewish shopkeeper who didn't just treat him reasonably, he went out of his way to help him, in spite of his entire doctrine being about dehumanizing him.

     

    Telling someone they're wrong only makes them believe they're right. You have to prove someone wrong, and to do that you have to be willing to put aside that what they're saying is horrible and vitriolic. If you return their anger with more anger, all it will do is make them angry right back. You have to be able to set that aside and break the circle.

     

    Wow that was a lot longer than I thought it'd be. In case it doesn't show, this is something I care a lot about :P

    Necro

    Posted

    If you ever do a Christmas album, that should be the cover.

    Well, first he'd have to get permission from the original artist, who I'm sure would appreciate the credit.

     

    Maybe I'll continue to pretend I can draw and make my own chrismas raptor!

    That is a lovely dinosaur. Also, I was expecting to see ponies in that link. Instead I saw an embarrassing muffin.

     

    My family must never see the muffin. Shame and eternal dishonor await me if they do.

    Necro

    Posted

    Doctor Jackstraw is an awesome name. DC should use it for a new Batman villain or something.

     

    Where did this come from, anyway? A magazine or something?

     

    -TNTOS-

     

    It's from the back of a pack of counterfeit Chinese Batman trading cards that was sitting in a dollar store. Looks like the exact same brand that made the counterfeit Yu-Gi-Oh cards I bought in droves when I was twelve because I didn't realize they were counterfeit.

    Necro

    Posted

    Your paper topic seems rather interesting... assuming that is your paper, of course. One generally doesn't think about anesthesia, but when you do you realize that it's actually pretty darn important. We just take it for granted.

     

    That's not my paper, that was just the first google result for "term paper" that I liked enough to use. :P

    Necro

    Posted

    First evolution of Garchomp, with a Steel and Normal egg move on them they don't get otherwise.

     

    Count me in then. Give me a week or two though, the wifi at my dorm is awful, so I'll probably lose connection mid-trade and destroy them both if I do it before winter break.

     

    I'm going to breed more Tyrunts.

    Every kid wants a T-Rex pokemon. It's a T-Rex.

     

    I would also like one?

    Necro

    Posted

    He actually has been going to a therapist for about a year now, and he's been on and off antidepressants, which is why I've stuck it out for three years. The problem, without getting into too much detail, is that he's in two abusive relationships, and in spite of the fact that everyone - including his therapist - other than those two people have tried to convince him he needs to sever ties with them, and a lot of those amongst him who actually have their own house/apartment/etc. have offered to take him in until he finds a place of his own, he refuses to leave them. I've been telling him to find another place to live for about two years now, and offered to help him find a place, but he doesn't want to leave.

     

    It's not like he's dependent on them either, he's 21 with an engineering degree and a job. But he still refuses to end the abusive relationship

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