Matoran/agori Relations

[Taipu1]

Another interesting topic I think warrants some serious discussion, Matoran/agori relationsI was wondering why the Agori should necessarily welcome the matoran into their society. It has been mentioned that Tahu is trying to bridge the gap between the two societies, but I can see a lot of problems between the two.1. Language barrierThis is a problem that occurs in real life, when people move to your country, you expect them to learn your language. This however is thousands of matoran moving onto agori land, and all of them aren't necessarily going to be willing to learn, and the Agori aren't necessarily going to co-operate. And then there are other languages, Skakdi, Zyglak, Bone Hunters all have their own languages...2. The Matoran ThreatAgori are inferior to matoran. They are more organic, and so more vulnerable to damage. Matoran being mechanical are better armoured and stronger. Then there's the advantages matoran have. The most sophisticated weaponry Agori have consists of firing fruit at each other (I may have made that sound worse than it is, but still). Matoran for starters have disk launchers which can fire disks of multiple powers, and then they have a whole armoury of other weapons at their disposal. Then they have the Toa protecting them, far, far superior to the Glatorians, with the exception of those who were given access to their elemental powers by Mata-Nui, which is very few. The only advantage Agori have is there superior numbers, and the obvious weakness of Matoran in their kanohi masks, which they need to stay conscious. Matoran could well be seen as a threat to the Agori.3. Social differencesThis is the main theme to my upcoming short story contest entry, the differences between Matoran and Agori. What I came up with was a ship captained by an Agori, who hired only Matoran to his crew out of bias. This again is similar to real life, where immigrants to a country do jobs for lower wages, however in the Matorans case, it is less the Matoran’s eagerness to work, more the Agori wanting the Matoran. Matoran are stronger, and have an incredible work ethic, as in the MU their work was vital to Mata-Nui’s continual survival. In The Powers that Be, Tahu was reportedly searching for a site for New Atero. For what purpose? The Glatorian arena system worked between the Agori, but Matoran have different morals, and as stated in point 2, Glatorian are no match for Toa.In short, I don’t see how it’s going to work out between the Matoran and Agori. Frankly it’s a wonder there was any acceptance at all, seeing as the Matoran arrived in a Giant robot intent on conquering the Agori’s planet.Thoughts?

[Erebus]

1. Mata Nui gave the Matoran the ability to understand and speak Agori.2. If the Matoran can live in the presence of the beings powerful than them, like the Vortixx, I don't see why the Agori and Glatorian cannot do the same. Besides, the Agori and Glatorian know the terrain better than the Matoran and Toa. Why do you think Gelu was asked to assist the Toa in the search for the Great Beings?3. The purpose for New Atero is to build a city or village so that all species can live there peacefully.

[Taipu1]

The Matoran did live in the presence of more powerful beings sometimes, but mostly they were separated, Skakdi on Zakaz, Vortixx on Xia. The vast majority of Matoran were rarely in contact with them. Also while they were in the MU these differences were strongly moderated. The Vortixx could have declared war on the Matoran, but the Order of Mata Nui, Brotherhood of Makuta or even Mata Nui himself could have put a stop to that. On Spherus Magna there is really no one in a position of supreme authority, with the possible exception of the mystery Great Being, and we don't know their intentions yet, but I doubt making sure the Agori and Matoran don't kill each other is on their to do list.

[Erebus]

Well, the Glatorian and Toa are already friendly with each other, and both groups want peace. If the Order of Mata Nui is disbanded, then both groups would take its place. I am pretty sure the Glatorian and Toa want to avoid wars. That's what Tahu is doing right now; damage control.

[Taipu1]

Toa and Glatorian are a minority though, I'm thinking more in terms of the agori's reactions to the Matorans arrival. They would be pretty ambivolent. On the one hand Mata Nui has given them a lot, revitalising the entire planet, making life a lot easier for them. However the matoran instantly get access to it as well, and I think perhaps some agori might not necessarily see the matoran as having any entitlement to the land. These things could be easy enough for Toa or Glatorian to control, but their could still be a lot of underlying tensions.

[BenLuke]

Since the Matoran language is also the computer coding used by the Great Beings to programMata Nui, and assuming the Great Beings speak the Agori language; the Matoran language would most likely be the same as the Agori's but with an odd syntax. Take most real life coding languages; most of themcontain large portions of English words.

[Erebus]

Don't forget that Spherus Magna is a massive planet, so if it's about land entitlement, it can easily be split. I agree that there might be disputes, but not a terrible amount.

[Makuta Matata]

I think that this is one of the new plot features that Greg was trying to get at in the serials. It will probably come up eventually.

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

I'm actually looking forward to this stuff coming up in the storyline. It seems interesting, especially with the thing Matoran have about eating. Eating in public would be banned, most likely, and would probably lead to segregated restaurants out of necessity.But, to answer Taipu1's original statements:1. It has been mentioned somewhere that Mata Nui gave all the MU beings the ability to speak Agori. The only ones who can't are the ones with the crazy Great Being, as they were somewhere else at the time.2. The Agori could also be seen as a threat to the Matoran. Think about all the complex machinery in the average Matoran body. There could be bad people who might covet such machinery and want to study them. Imagine Matoran meeting the human race. They'd be on slabs and taken apart before you could say "Take me to your leader". Also, since Matoran are mostly mechanical, it could be possible that someone could 'hack' into their brains or something.3. Matoran DO think for themselves, though, and while eager for work, they'd probably know what they should be paid. Also, some Agori may hold prejudice against Matoran, trusting their own kind more than the aliens. And, as Erebus said, Atero Nui was meant for a place for Matoran and Agori to live in harmony. With lutes and mirth and everything.

[Katuko]

I believe the language thing extended to everyone, since by the time Mata Nui did it the planet was reunited and so Lewa and the others would at least be on the same world.I'm not worried about the Matoran/Agori relations, since both seem bent on a peaceful resolution. The Vortixx and the Steltians also seem friendly or at least neutral, despite Roodaka and Sidorak (the only named beings of each race) being villains. The Skakdi would be more troublesome, as they prefer war and conflict.Given that we have the Baterra, Marendar, Vorox and rogue Skrall marching around, I think the Toa and Glatorian will have their hands full with them rather than each other.

[Taipu1]

I'm actually looking forward to this stuff coming up in the storyline. It seems interesting, especially with the thing Matoran have about eating. Eating in public would be banned, most likely, and would probably lead to segregated restaurants out of necessity.

I thought something similar, Matoran would probably have different food and separately. I think Agori drink, but do Matoran, drink or just eat/absorb?Would the Great Beings artificial protodermis become a coveted material among Agori? For years they use bone to make their weapons, and then suddenly this wonder material turns up? Or would protdermis be a matoran thing?

[Katuko]

Protodermis is all kinds of fake material. The Maotrna versions of wood, water, metal and dirt are all Protodermis, albeit vastly different forms of it. The only real version of use for the Agori would be Protosteel, and you can probably create an equivalent using non-Proto matter.As for the food issue, we know that Matoran "eat" mostly by absorbing energy through their hands, but drinking has never really been brought up. They can drown, but that is related to the lungs. Perhaps they absorb liquids as well, but we wouldn't know unless Greg told us. I have no idea if Matoran can actually ingest things physically, but I doubt it, seeing as they have no real teeth, show no indication of being hungry/full and their would-be "waste disposal unit" location is covered by solid metal at all times. This would be better off in the Offical Matoran Life Processes topic, though.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Katuko

[The Lorax]

Matoran can drink, but only proto-water. I can understand a bit of rension between thr races at first, and there will always be some individuals who will stir up trouble, but now that there is pleanty for all after so long of struggling for survival, I think most agori wont begrudge the matoran a bit of land, if only out of respect for Mata Nui, who gave them so much. They are his people, after all.

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

Matoran can drink, but only proto-water.

I believe their absorbing/eating/drinking extends to organic materials, too. They could survive perfectly well on Mata Nui (the island) and that was mostly non-organic. If they require drink and also can only ingest the protodermic kind, they'll be in trouble on Spherus Magna after the MU floods with toxic water or whatever.Also, I think I read somewhere that the old MU robot was going to be slowly scrapped for parts. Makes me wonder how the Matoran will feel. I mean, Mata Nui was their Great Spirit, and it seems a bit... insulting, in some respects.

[fishers64]

^ Mata Nui lives among them as a spirit...literally speaking, but that robot is not their great spirit. It's just a dead robot that was abused by Makuta to get to his own ends. The Great Spirit was once in charge of it, but he no longer is, and the Matoran have enough intelligence to make the distinction between the intelligence that saved them and the dead machinery that he once used, and, being resourceful, they are going to use it for what they need, which is spare parts.

[T.B.O.C]

I believe the language thing extended to everyone, since by the time Mata Nui did it the planet was reunited and so Lewa and the others would at least be on the same world.I'm not worried about the Matoran/Agori relations, since both seem bent on a peaceful resolution. The Vortixx and the Steltians also seem friendly or at least neutral, despite Roodaka and Sidorak (the only named beings of each race) being villains. The Skakdi would be more troublesome, as they prefer war and conflict.Given that we have the Baterra, Marendar, Vorox and rogue Skrall marching around, I think the Toa and Glatorian will have their hands full with them rather than each other.

I don't think Skakdi are a problem just yet, aren't they all following the golden-spine being, and currently living in the fortress thing that he rose out of the sea? They seem kind of seperated from everyone else, and don't seem to want to mix in with the rest, yet.

Matoran can drink, but only proto-water.

I believe their absorbing/eating/drinking extends to organic materials, too. They could survive perfectly well on Mata Nui (the island) and that was mostly non-organic. If they require drink and also can only ingest the protodermic kind, they'll be in trouble on Spherus Magna after the MU floods with toxic water or whatever.Also, I think I read somewhere that the old MU robot was going to be slowly scrapped for parts. Makes me wonder how the Matoran will feel. I mean, Mata Nui was their Great Spirit, and it seems a bit... insulting, in some respects.

I believe the whole drinking thing is a conflict. On Mata-Nui, it was said that they pumped protodermis in for the Matoran to drink, so they really didn't drink water. Also, on Voya-Nui, they did talk about looking for water, though that may have just been labeled as water so kids reading the books weren't confused.Also, they can just pump protodermis out of the MU, as they should have plenty from Metru-Nui that isn't toxic/inedible. I think that they also don't need to eat/drink everyday, though every once in a while (I think it was every month) they have to absorb energy via hands.

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

Matoran can drink, but only proto-water.

I believe their absorbing/eating/drinking extends to organic materials, too. They could survive perfectly well on Mata Nui (the island) and that was mostly non-organic. If they require drink and also can only ingest the protodermic kind, they'll be in trouble on Spherus Magna after the MU floods with toxic water or whatever.Also, I think I read somewhere that the old MU robot was going to be slowly scrapped for parts. Makes me wonder how the Matoran will feel. I mean, Mata Nui was their Great Spirit, and it seems a bit... insulting, in some respects.

I believe the whole drinking thing is a conflict. On Mata-Nui, it was said that they pumped protodermis in for the Matoran to drink, so they really didn't drink water. Also, on Voya-Nui, they did talk about looking for water, though that may have just been labeled as water so kids reading the books weren't confused.Also, they can just pump protodermis out of the MU, as they should have plenty from Metru-Nui that isn't toxic/inedible. I think that they also don't need to eat/drink everyday, though every once in a while (I think it was every month) they have to absorb energy via hands.

I haven't heard of the protodermis being pumped onto the island of Mata Nui. Could you please say where it's from? Sorry to trouble you, but it sounds interesting. Edited November 23, 2011 by ZippyWharrgarbl

[Katuko]

I don't think Skakdi are a problem just yet, aren't they all following the golden-spine being, and currently living in the fortress thing that he rose out of the sea? They seem kind of seperated from everyone else, and don't seem to want to mix in with the rest, yet.

Annona put an end to that after messing with the Skakdi's dreams, as the Fusion created the fortress by making their dreams real. At the end of Sahmad's Tale, after they had vanquished the dream eater, this conversation ensued:

“You will hear from me again, you know,” the golden being said. “I will not be content to stay on this spit of land forever.”“Let me know when you and your army are coming,” I answered. “Maybe I’ll join up.”

So it seems like there might be some trouble after all. Edited November 23, 2011 by Katuko

[GSR]

Optimistically, the races will be able to integrate fairly easily, with the Agori acknowledging what Mata Nui did for him and accepting his people in appreciation. Cynically, the disparity in strength and culture between the races will almost certainly lead to clashes between them, and it's questionable as to how authentic the Toa are as leaders to the Agori. Realistically, the line getting canned precludes enough storyline to go in-depth on this there'll almost certainly be troublemakers, but the main cast seems willing to try and make it work.

[Guest]

Both Matoran and Agori have disputed among themselves before and the cultural divide can only add to this problem, so I'd say yes. When it escalates the Matoran and the Agori will probably turn to their respective champions, the Toa and the Glatorians. The Toa, being BIONICLE's heroes and everything, will probably try to work towards a peaceful and in their eyes fair solution, but I don't think we can say the same of the Glatorian. They're basically mercenaries and while the Greshes might be eager to hop on the Toa bandwagon, the Strakks are definitely not that noble. Like ZippyWharrbargl I am eager to see how Greg is going to handle this.

[Exo-Kahgarak]

1. Yeah, Mata Nui just magically gave everyone the ability to speak Agori. Of course, the Matoran language doesn't make sense in the first place. A 'programming language' (which Matoran supposedly is) can't be spoken; you can't translate "He runs." or "How are you?" or "Hello world!" into C++ or Java. (And there's the fact that Matoran seems to be pseudo-Maori, while Agori seems to be pseudo-Latin; this would be like English-speaking programmers using Swahili to write programs.)2. Eh, I'd imagine the Skakdi, Vortixx, Zyglak, one of the minor races which has no purpose besides contributing a member to the Dark Hunters, etc. would seem more of a threat than the Matoran.3. Different people with very different cultures can live and thrive in the same area. Or one species might be the target of genocide and terrorism. Despite the large amount of warfare the MU and Bara Magna have seen, there has been remarkably little war within the species themselves: in the MU, nothing since the Matoran Civil War, 80,000 years ago; on Bara Magna, nothing since the Core War, 100,000 years ago. I'm optimistic.

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

1. Yeah, Mata Nui just magically gave everyone the ability to speak Agori. Of course, the Matoran language doesn't make sense in the first place. A 'programming language' (which Matoran supposedly is) can't be spoken; you can't translate "He runs." or "How are you?" or "Hello world!" into C++ or Java. (And there's the fact that Matoran seems to be pseudo-Maori, while Agori seems to be pseudo-Latin; this would be like English-speaking programmers using Swahili to write programs.)2. Eh, I'd imagine the Skakdi, Vortixx, Zyglak, one of the minor races which has no purpose besides contributing a member to the Dark Hunters, etc. would seem more of a threat than the Matoran.3. Different people with very different cultures can live and thrive in the same area. Or one species might be the target of genocide and terrorism. Despite the large amount of warfare the MU and Bara Magna have seen, there has been remarkably little war within the species themselves: in the MU, nothing since the Matoran Civil War, 80,000 years ago; on Bara Magna, nothing since the Core War, 100,000 years ago. I'm optimistic.

1. It's more like changing your computer's language from English to Latin instead of writing all their programming into a different code.2. Still, large, fearful mobs can still be a threat to anyone. I agree, though, that the Dark Hunters and co. would seem the more immediate threat in regards to general wellbeing.3. Then again, many places with different cultures can be dangerous because of silly people with silly ideas about their culture being the 'best'. Also, sure, the Agori and Matoran tended not to fight amongst THEMSELVES, but they have never had the opportunity to fight against each other. I mean, from an Agori's point of view, there are the little robots coming out of the giant robot and wanting their own share of the Agori's planet. Matoran, on the other hand, see aliens who are uncultured and a bit gross (note the Agori's eating habit of using their mouth). It's gonna be rough going from here on in.Good ideas, though. Edited November 25, 2011 by ZippyWharrgarbl

[Toa Zaz]

I think that this is one of the new plot features that Greg was trying to get at in the serials. It will probably come up eventually.

I think that this is one of the new plot features that Greg was trying to get at in the serials. It will probably come up eventually.

Assuming Bioniclestory.com ever gets updated, which I doubt.

[Toa of Nerds]

Yes, I can definately see this as a problem facing eventual integration. This particular theme has never really been explored in Bionicle beofre, so it will be interesting to see if GregF delves into it any.However, I do think that they can find a way to work together. They seemed to be able to do that when threatened by Makuta, the only question is if that alliance can survive during peacetime...-don't touch my pocket protector

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

I think that this is one of the new plot features that Greg was trying to get at in the serials. It will probably come up eventually.

I think that this is one of the new plot features that Greg was trying to get at in the serials. It will probably come up eventually.

Assuming Bioniclestory.com ever gets updated, which I doubt.

Aw, don't get too negative about it. It'll be updated sometime. :)And on the subject at hand, what currency do you think will become the 'main' one? I'm not sure what the Agori use (probably just trading), but it seems widgets might be considered unless Metallic Protodermis becomes rare. Also, what happens to the Matoran holiday(s), such as Naming Day? Or what about whatever Agori celebrate? Will those still be a thing, and will both races be able to join in the fun? Edited November 30, 2011 by ZippyWharrgarbl

[Toa Zaz]

I'm resisting the urge to make a crude joke about the misleading title of this topic... :PI think after all they've been through, and with Mata Nui's little speech thing, they'll generally get along okay. I think they've realized they've got nothing to gain from fighting with each other, and matoran and agori seem like pretty nice people all around anyway.

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

I'm resisting the urge to make a crude joke about the misleading title of this topic... :PI think after all they've been through, and with Mata Nui's little speech thing, they'll generally get along okay. I think they've realized they've got nothing to gain from fighting with each other, and matoran and agori seem like pretty nice people all around anyway.

Still, there are always a few sour grapes in the bunch. Metus and Ahkmou, for example. And as I understand, Scodonius is a bit of a 'creep' and also a meanie. Besides, as a very extreme example, how'd you like it if you finally got your house clean and some random people decided to move in, even if your parents told you both to get along?(It's not the greatest example, sorry)

[P962]

I imagine the two races won't get along that easily! Plus like Zippy said, there are a few bad seeds out there...

[Erebus]

However, I do think that they can find a way to work together. They seemed to be able to do that when threatened by Makuta, the only question is if that alliance can survive during peacetime...

It's something Tahu and Ackar are working on at the moment, to build and strengthen Matoran-Agori relations.

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

However, I do think that they can find a way to work together. They seemed to be able to do that when threatened by Makuta, the only question is if that alliance can survive during peacetime...

It's something Tahu and Ackar are working on at the moment, to build and strengthen Matoran-Agori relations.

For some reason, when you said that I immediately thought of a big Arts and Crafts class for all the races. :PAlso, remember that Ackar and Tahu aren't that well-known in each other's cultures. Also, Ackar is considered by some Agori to be an 'old coot', so to speak.A bit off-topic, sorry: Was Strakk banished in the storyline? To put this more in-topic, he seems the sort to cause some havoc if he's still there. You could imagine him being a huge sourpuss and telling everyone that Mata Nui isn't such a good guy after all. Since not all of the Agori personally met Mata Nui, there could be a few who believed him.

[Taipu1]

However, I do think that they can find a way to work together. They seemed to be able to do that when threatened by Makuta, the only question is if that alliance can survive during peacetime...

It's something Tahu and Ackar are working on at the moment, to build and strengthen Matoran-Agori relations.

For some reason, when you said that I immediately thought of a big Arts and Crafts class for all the races. :PAlso, remember that Ackar and Tahu aren't that well-known in each other's cultures. Also, Ackar is considered by some Agori to be an 'old coot', so to speak.A bit off-topic, sorry: Was Strakk banished in the storyline? To put this more in-topic, he seems the sort to cause some havoc if he's still there. You could imagine him being a huge sourpuss and telling everyone that Mata Nui isn't such a good guy after all. Since not all of the Agori personally met Mata Nui, there could be a few who believed him.

Strakk was banished to the wastelands, although thats probably not much of a punishment now the planet is rejuvinated. Although the rock tribe were also banished, so Strakk might end up with them. That doesn't mean they can't cause trouble though.

[Erebus]

However, I do think that they can find a way to work together. They seemed to be able to do that when threatened by Makuta, the only question is if that alliance can survive during peacetime...

It's something Tahu and Ackar are working on at the moment, to build and strengthen Matoran-Agori relations.

For some reason, when you said that I immediately thought of a big Arts and Crafts class for all the races. :PAlso, remember that Ackar and Tahu aren't that well-known in each other's cultures. Also, Ackar is considered by some Agori to be an 'old coot', so to speak.

Ackar is still the leader of the Agori defense force. They shouldn't have too much trouble working with each other.

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

However, I do think that they can find a way to work together. They seemed to be able to do that when threatened by Makuta, the only question is if that alliance can survive during peacetime...

It's something Tahu and Ackar are working on at the moment, to build and strengthen Matoran-Agori relations.

For some reason, when you said that I immediately thought of a big Arts and Crafts class for all the races. :PAlso, remember that Ackar and Tahu aren't that well-known in each other's cultures. Also, Ackar is considered by some Agori to be an 'old coot', so to speak.

Ackar is still the leader of the Agori defense force. They shouldn't have too much trouble working with each other.

Maybe, but would Tahu like taking orders from someone instead of giving them? Besides, as I said, some Agori don't respect Ackar because of his age. But now that I think about it, others might think it best for him to have a more... behind-desk job. Like, he wouldn't be gallavanting off all the time, instead issuing orders and suchforth.

[Taipu1]

However, I do think that they can find a way to work together. They seemed to be able to do that when threatened by Makuta, the only question is if that alliance can survive during peacetime...

It's something Tahu and Ackar are working on at the moment, to build and strengthen Matoran-Agori relations.

For some reason, when you said that I immediately thought of a big Arts and Crafts class for all the races. :PAlso, remember that Ackar and Tahu aren't that well-known in each other's cultures. Also, Ackar is considered by some Agori to be an 'old coot', so to speak.

Ackar is still the leader of the Agori defense force. They shouldn't have too much trouble working with each other.

Maybe, but would Tahu like taking orders from someone instead of giving them? Besides, as I said, some Agori don't respect Ackar because of his age. But now that I think about it, others might think it best for him to have a more... behind-desk job. Like, he wouldn't be gallavanting off all the time, instead issuing orders and suchforth.

I think Tahu's changed a lot over the years, I don't think he'd have a problem with taking orders anymore. I'd personally like him to pack it in now and become a Turaga, as his destiny has been achieved he can do that...

[Toa of Nerds]

And on the subject at hand, what currency do you think will become the 'main' one? I'm not sure what the Agori use (probably just trading), but it seems widgets might be considered unless Metallic Protodermis becomes rare. Also, what happens to the Matoran holiday(s), such as Naming Day? Or what about whatever Agori celebrate? Will those still be a thing, and will both races be able to join in the fun?

I think the Agori used water as a currency (like in Dune) but now that Mata-Nui's turned Spherus Magna into a paradise, that may be a bit obsolete. With that in mind, they'll probably switch over to Widgets or a similar currency. As for holidays, I'd imagine that Naming Day would take a similar place in society as Hanukah in America. A majority of American's don't celebrate it, but there is still a community within America that does. I'd imagine the same sort of thing for Naming Day and other Matoran holidays.

I think after all they've been through, and with Mata Nui's little speech thing, they'll generally get along okay. I think they've realized they've got nothing to gain from fighting with each other, and matoran and agori seem like pretty nice people all around anyway.

You're thinking rationally. Racists don't think rationally.

Taipu1'">

I think Tahu's changed a lot over the years, I don't think he'd have a problem with taking orders anymore. I'd personally like him to pack it in now and become a Turaga, as his destiny has been achieved he can do that...

I kind of wish that all the Toa Nuva would have become Turaga after they awakened Mata-Nui. That would have brought the whole Bionicle saga full circle and made for a much better ending.-don't touch my pocket protector

[ZippyWharrgarbl]

Taipu1'">

I think Tahu's changed a lot over the years, I don't think he'd have a problem with taking orders anymore. I'd personally like him to pack it in now and become a Turaga, as his destiny has been achieved he can do that...

I kind of wish that all the Toa Nuva would have become Turaga after they awakened Mata-Nui. That would have brought the whole Bionicle saga full circle and made for a much better ending.-don't touch my pocket protector

If they did that, they wouldn't get into shenanigans anymore. Or at least not as wild shenanigans as they used to be.I just finished reading Raid on Vulcanus, and through the book the Agori see the Glatorian as things to protect them when they're needed but otherwise aren't required. How do you guys think this view might extend to the 'new' races?