Comics Contest #1: Get a Clue!

[Uncle K.]

I think the big bang to this is: "Hey, we can judge hand-drawn entries based on the art, layout, and story, while we should only really judge sprite comics on the story and layout." That's one more category to count for or against any non-sprite comic. I'm not saying sprite comics are wrong, or should be considered any less of a comic, but there is quite a large difference between a comic that has been plotted and drawn by a single artist, than a comic that had characters drawn by one person, backgrounds sometimes done by another, and arranged/plotted by yet another person who then gets all the credit.Course, doing a hand drawn entry myself, I am a bit partial, but I can confidently say (having made a few sprite comics waaay back) it takes a lot more work.

[~kh]

but there is quite a large difference between a comic that has been plotted and drawn by a single artist, than a comic that had characters drawn by one person, backgrounds sometimes done by another, and arranged/plotted by yet another person who then gets all the credit.

Wanted to insert this here: this actually does go on in mainstream comic book publishing quite a bit. There are some artists that specialize in subjects/poses and others that do backgrounds. Sometimes, the artist will do the panel layout and then pencil in the subjects and outline the backgrounds, and then another artist will go in and flesh out the backgrounds. In fact, oftentimes another artist will layout a page while another one handles the rest of the book, simply because of time constraints. Very, very rarely do you have a comic artist that writes, draws, letters and colors a normal-length comic book within the timeframe that a comic issue is supposed to come out. Also, very rarely do you see most of these people credited or held in high regard. This especially holds true for colorists and letterists. Most of the fame and glory goes to the writers and the main artists.Also, several comics, specifically several issues of Vertigo's The Sandman, also use the "model/cut and paste" method to further realize their own art style. That being said, we're not mainstream comic artists by any stretch of the imagination and we're on a time limit, so I understand that something had to be sacrificed for it to come into completion. I guess, from a personal point of view, I see "graphics/art style" and "story/pacing" as two sides of the same coin, in which its not necessarily how good one is compared to the other, but how each one instead amplifies and strengthens the other.Edit: Wanted to address this here:

Also, I don't really think that people should vote for the comics with the best graphics because people like Gavla, Tavakia, and Kahi would have a much better advantage than everyone else.

Well, that's the thing. This entire contest is based on judgement on skill. Some people here have very good handdrawn skill, others are good with Photoshop. If you're going to say "we shouldn't vote for someone because of their skill", then really, voting for anyone is really kind of pointless. Now, if you're only going to vote for people because they only have good graphics, then you should probably reconsider. Edited March 3, 2012 by Kahinuva

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

It is without a doubt faster than serious hand drawn work. As I said - the characters are already made for you. You can copy over backgrounds as opposed to an artist redrawing it every panel.

Absolutely wrong. Depending on the graphics, style, story, etc, I'd go as far as to say some sprite comics take longer than hand drawn comics. Please note, I am NOT talking about professional works by people such as... Leah Gallagher, or Randy Elliott. I am talking about things such as what you made, or Kakaru.

Uh, if you've noticed, most of the world's artists tend to draw things that already exist. You don't go up to an artist who's painted a portrait of somebody and go 'lol nice try bro, but you just copied someone else's face, minus points for not being original 'You can't compare an artist drawing something that exists to someone copying and pasting something he didn't make into panels over and over.

Most of them, sure. But think about the things that they have drawn from. A lot of those were more than likely original. Bionicle masks are original, but to Lego. By drawing them yourself, you already have the designs mapped out for you. And yes, I can.And I sure as Karzahni can compare. There are in fact a ton of things that comic makers sprite themselves. There is also backgrounds, weapons, etc. You came into this forum not knowing what you are talking about.

They don't have an awful lot in common. Okay yes, sprites are art, but they're the sprite maker's art. The people who use the artist's art can't take a whole lot of credit. It's like 'yo hey guys, check out this comic, I made the text myself ' as opposed to 'yo hey guys, check out this comic, I drew everything myself'.

They have a ton in common. Sprite comics are a different form of art work. Would you go to InnerRayg and say "Hey, your sprites aren't art work even though you made them."? Again, comic makers make a lot of things themselves. I suggest you go around forum and look at some decent sprite comics before you make crazy assumptions.

[Ziko]

Okay, it's time to end the "merits of sprite comics" argument again. No more baiting each other.

[Uncle K.]

Okay, it's time to end the "merits of sprite comics" argument again. No more baiting each other.

I think the issue was if we can judge sprite comics on the same merit as hand drawn entries.* An entry completely scripted and drawn by a single member is vastly different than a comic using art made by other people assembled by another. It's still a comic, and it's still art, but it's also collaborative, and the spriters wont be the ones jointly winning the contest though they've done quite a lot of the workload.*That's just what I was reading it as, however. Edited March 3, 2012 by Uncle K.

[D-Shadow]

Alright, this got far too off-track from what I stated, it's time to calm down regarding these "sprite vs traditional" comic nonsense.Both take experience and time to plan out and look good, the problem, I think, is the time limit. For example, the art contest is a bout a month long, reasonable enough to give those fine touches to the piece. The epic contest is also about a month long, making and coming up with a story is just as precise as art. Taking these two into account, this contest seems to be unintentionally biased. The comic maker is given a month to do both an epic and art. Art as sprite or traditional will take a long time if the artist wants to be voted as best. Story is just as important in a comic as is the art, this seems to be a problem too late to fix, but this should be taken into account when the next contest is made.Of course, this is just my opinion, so I realize others may not agree.

[Uncle K.]

I'm really considering just posting the two finished and four unfinished pages, it's just gotten ridiculous.Everyone in my household got sick and I've been too busy studying/working to be able to focus on anything else. Good grief this contest I don't even...

[-Absorba-]

DANGITDANGIT! I'M WORKING SO HARD ON MY COMIC!*sigh* Well, I still haven't finished the comic. :(Good luck, everyone. I wish there was another deadline.

Edited March 4, 2012 by -Absorba-

[D-D-D-Ddude]

I think we could all use another deadline bump.

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

After already one deadline bump, making it a total of two months to work, not to mention how close it is to this deadline, I don't honestly think another bump is needed.

[BioCry]

I hate to ask for more. But, it may be interesting and helpful to have a few days after the deadline for any late entries.I am in dire need of more time over here. -

[~kh]

I don't think we should look the gift horse in the mouth more than once. That being said, here's hoping I get mine finished in time.

[D-D-D-Ddude]

I'm pretty much done honestly, but I've got a headcold so I'm hoping I can work up the energy to finish tommorow.Making this series has made me realize how awful I am with GIMP though >_> and the aforementioned cold has made me cut a few corners I'm unhappy with.

[D-Shadow]

After already one deadline bump, making it a total of two months to work, not to mention how close it is to this deadline, I don't honestly think another bump is needed.

Um... the people entering have only been given a total of one month. Where'd two months come from?

[Reznas]

A month is a pretty long time to come up with a mystery, and most comic makers here can make the actual comic pretty fast.

Anyone who uses sprites can make a comic pretty fast, sure. But that's because they're using kits they didn't make - a lot of their work is done before they've even started. And I see a lot of sprite comics even use photographs as backgrounds, and I doubt the creators even took the photos themselves.People who want to create something original (AKA people who draw their work or whatever) have a lot more work to do, and if they want to do a full blown mystery, it's a fairly large undertaking. For stuff like that, a month isn't a huge amount of time.

I can totally see what you mean, but honestly, a month is a really long time if you're committed. Making a plot shouldn't take more than a week at most if you're taking the time to work on it daily. After that, you would have about three weeks to work on it. And also, you don't realize how difficult it can be to use sprites for comic-making. Every panel you make has to have certain poses for multiple characters, and sometimes you even have to rotate them based on the angle. The backgrounds take some work as well. It took me probably 2-3 hours to make all my backgrounds. You have to remember that you have to add props and such to the backgrounds. And I myself actually sprited (or created, whatever would be the correct terminology) all my props; including all of the houses or buildings that are in my backgrounds. That, in itself, actually took awhile to make. Before you start saying that making hand-drawn comics are more difficult than sprite comics, you need to make your own successful sprite comics yourself. It took a lot of work for us to get where we are. Making sprite comics isn't as easy as it seems.

Also, I don't really think that people should vote for the comics with the best graphics because people like Gavla, Tavakia, and Kahi would have a much better advantage than everyone else.

Well, that's the thing. This entire contest is based on judgement on skill. Some people here have very good handdrawn skill, others are good with Photoshop. If you're going to say "we shouldn't vote for someone because of their skill", then really, voting for anyone is really kind of pointless. Now, if you're only going to vote for people because they only have good graphics, then you should probably reconsider.

No, no, no. I wasn't implying that we shouldn't vote based on the author's skills, I was simply implying that we shouldn't vote just because someone is good at graphics. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. -Rez Edited March 4, 2012 by Reznas Nuva

[Taka Nuvia]

Before you start saying that making hand-drawn comics are more difficult than sprite comics, you need to make your own successful sprite comics yourself. It took a lot of work for us to get where we are. Making sprite comics isn't as easy as it seems.

*raises hand* I now decide to jump into that discussion!First off: I suck at spriting. It never worked for me, so I've always preferred traditional media..So yes, spriting is an awful lot of work if you want to get it right. You're right with that.But I still think that hand-drawn comics take a tad longer to make. Why? Because the higher you want the level of detail to be, the more time you'll have to invest. And it can be an awful lot of time, with imagining, then pencilling, inking, and maybe colouring. When working with traditional media, you can't really use anything pre-made. So it takes looong.... just my opinion.

No, no, no. I wasn't implying that we shouldn't vote based on the author's skills, I was simply implying that we shouldn't vote just because someone is good at graphics. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. -Rez

That's a good and noble idea, but it's a lot easier to judge appearance/graphics than story. I fear it will happen.

[Reznas]

Before you start saying that making hand-drawn comics are more difficult than sprite comics, you need to make your own successful sprite comics yourself. It took a lot of work for us to get where we are. Making sprite comics isn't as easy as it seems.

*raises hand* I now decide to jump into that discussion!First off: I suck at spriting. It never worked for me, so I've always preferred traditional media..So yes, spriting is an awful lot of work if you want to get it right. You're right with that.But I still think that hand-drawn comics take a tad longer to make. Why? Because the higher you want the level of detail to be, the more time you'll have to invest. And it can be an awful lot of time, with imagining, then pencilling, inking, and maybe colouring. When working with traditional media, you can't really use anything pre-made. So it takes looong.... just my opinion.

I agree with you that hand-drawn comics can take longer. In fact, most of the time they do. I was mainly commenting on the fact that some people were saying that sprite comics are easier to make than hand-drawn comics.

No, no, no. I wasn't implying that we shouldn't vote based on the author's skills, I was simply implying that we shouldn't vote just because someone is good at graphics. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. -Rez

That's a good and noble idea, but it's a lot easier to judge appearance/graphics than story. I fear it will happen.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it will too. I just feel it shouldn't be that way.Anyways, guys, I think that we need to stop arguing about whether or not hand-drawn comics are better than sprite comics and things like that. I admit that I was a part of the argument, but I for one think that we should stop. I think that neither of the types of comics are better than the other. They are simply different styles. Neither are harder than the other. Both have their difficulties and some aspects of hand-drawn comics are more difficult than spriting comics, and the same for spriting comics. I think it's quite a silly thing to argue about. Just because you like a certain style of comics doesn't mean that other styles are bad. I myself have done that at times, because I'm used to sprite-based comics. But hand-drawn comics are amazing too. We can't really compare the two because there's no better style. So let's just have our opinions and stop arguing. This topic wasn't made so we could argue about what style of comic is better. -Rez Edited March 4, 2012 by Reznas Nuva

[D-D-D-Ddude]

While everyone debates about the easiness of sprite comics, let me post my entry consisting of primarily not my work xDMember Name: Ddude the InsaneEntry Name: The McGuy IdentityEntry URL:Part 1Part 2Part 3Part 4Part 5Entry Thumbnail:Entry Topic: The AsylumI'm not terribly happy with how this turned out, but, uh, headcold.Blame any issues with the comic on my immune system please

[Black Six]

Okay, it's time to end the "merits of sprite comics" argument again. No more baiting each other.

If a staff member asks you to stop, you should stop.If there are more posts trolling/flaming each other administrative action will be taken.

[VampireBohrok]

Member name: VampireBohrokEntry name: City of WretchesEntry URL: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]Thumbnail:Topic: Here

Edited March 5, 2012 by VampireBohrok

[Uncle K.]

Member name: Uncle K.Entry name: At The End of the TunnelEntry URL: Pg. One / Pg. Two / Pg. ThreeThumbnail URL:(I guess you can copy the image url)Entry topic: Hereluls mystery

Edited March 5, 2012 by Uncle K.

[BioCry]

Member name: Biocryptid21Entry name: The Mystery of the ToaEntry URL: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]Thumbnail URL: LinkEntry topic: Link-

[Kaleidoscope Tekulo]

Whew, made it!Member name: Tekulo: Toa of GalesEntry name: Yume IslandEntry URL: linkThumbnail URL: Pretty much done for fun. I actually had a rough draft a while ago, but I rushed to get this done in time (forgot the deadline. @_@). Looks like the competition is fierce in both artwork and stories, so I doubt it'll come to anything. Still it's always fun to participate. ^^

[The Venom]

Well, it looks like I won't be making it in this contest.My comic at the moment is currently somewhat finished,though it's lacking text and dialogue to make it 100% complete.Only way I can make it now is if we get an extension of atleast one saving grace hour or so.-V-

[~kh]

Well, it looks like I won't be making it in this contest.My comic at the moment is currently somewhat finished,though it's lacking text and dialogue to make it 100% complete.Only way I can make it now is if we get an extension of atleast one saving grace hour or so.-V-

This is me hypocritically chiming in with Venom here after I said not to look a gift horse in the mouth. I've literally got one last scene to finish before its over with, but there's no time for me to do so. A little grace time, even as short as a few hours, would be great, but we've already had an extension, so yeah.Anyhow, good luck to the other entrants. I've been especially impressed with a lot of those others here, and I wish the best to all of you. Edited March 5, 2012 by Kahinuva

[-Windrider-]

It saddens me to have to say this, but yeah, we can't give such an extension at this point. Believe me, though - one of the lessons learned from this contest is that the entry period needs to be lengthened from the start. We were mistaken to set it at the midpoint between the Art Contest standard and the Library Contest standard. It should have been closer to a combination.Anyway, it seems that the entry period is now over. Allow me to offer a thank-you, and another apology.See you all in the polls!